Tired of CP leveling

master_vanargand

How many years do you want to do CP leveling?
Leveling is the cause of the decline of MMO.

I try invite my friends in this game.
A friend said. "How long does it take to reach the maximum level?"
I answered honestly. "It may take 10 years."
A friend said. "Oh my god..."

Many people don't want to climb life-destroying mountains.
Why don't MMO creators understand?
I am in despair.

MashmalloMan

Well 10 years is not true.. You basically shot any hope of your friend playing in the foot.

Kurat

If you grind like hell, I mean 4-5 hours a day, 365 days, then you should get to max cp in 2-3 years. It may take 10 years for casuals.
I'm currently around cp1400 and it takes 1.1 mil xp to gain next cp. And it takes me an hour to grind that 1 cp. The more cp you get the more xp is required obviously. So the end will be really tedious. But to cp1200 should be couple of months only and that's enough for any content.

Jayroo

"wanna play COD"
"are there guns?"
"honestly yes so many guns"


Really though in all seriousness there are grindy parts of this game. Is it as bad as other games? no. But it doesn't let you buy an almost max level character *coughWoW* because zos knows everyone would cry about it. There is more to love about this game than reaching the end, if the best you can sell the game is "urg honestly forever nevermind" than maybe take a break and come back to see if its even fun for you to play anymore vs other things.

Elo106

I had the same with some friends who I wanted to get in the game I showed them cyrodiil and they were hooked, started leveling to 50 was all fun and good but as they saw the CP thing I tried to say its not as bad just CP 160 but they all instantly called it they would have to grind way more to stay competitive. After getting what new players see as "max level" grinding that much more is demoralizing, especially for pvp players.

ThorianB

There is no reason to grind to 3600 CP. You can do everything in this game with a few hundred CP at most. That said, i think they should drop a 0 from the CP levels and make each level cost 10X more but provide 10X the benefit. 360CP max is a lot less daunting than 3600. Especially considering the much steeper XP increases between levels in other games.

If i came here from WoW or Rift expecting all games to have similar leveling mechanics, 3600 CP would probably scare me off and i hate reaching level cap early in games. 400 levels is a lot less daunting than 3640 levels. Since many stars have stages and those stages cost at least 10 CP, it really wouldn't make a huge impact to CP progression anyway.

JWillCHS

Jayroo wrote: »

"wanna play COD"
"are there guns?"
"honestly yes so many guns"


Really though in all seriousness there are grindy parts of this game. Is it as bad as other games? no. But it doesn't let you buy an almost max level character *coughWoW* because zos knows everyone would cry about it. There is more to love about this game than reaching the end, if the best you can sell the game is "urg honestly forever nevermind" than maybe take a break and come back to see if its even fun for you to play anymore vs other things.

"When you get to the max level of 50 now it's time to get Champion Points."

What are those?

"They are points to further progress your character, and you can allocate them to certain passives that increase your character's efficiency and strength."

Cool! How do I get them?

"Well, it's like leveling but this time you have to do it 3600 times to get all 3600 Champion Points."

Well I heard Shadowlands in World Warcraft did a level squish back to 60. I might play that instead.

Can we start gaining multiple points at the same time because this is some bull. Someone call Ja Rule to make sense of this. WHERE IS JA!?

Scardan

master_vanargand wrote: »

How many years do you want to do CP leveling?
Leveling is the cause of the decline of MMO.

I try invite my friends in this game.
A friend said. "How long does it take to reach the maximum level?"
I answered honestly. "It may take 10 years."
A friend said. "Oh my god..."

Many people don't want to climb life-destroying mountains.
Why don't MMO creators understand?
I am in despair.

Just dont misinform your friends then :P. Max lvl is 50 and your friends can reach it in a couple of weeks. CP is a bonus after reaching max level. It is different system then character leveling. But when they ask about getting to max CP, then you can scare them with 10 years, which I do not believe to be true. 2 years maybe .

Everstorm

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

Nordic__Knights

HELLO IM AN VET PLAYER SINCE RELASE ON PS4 IM 1420CP WITH OVER 15K HOURS 100% ACHEVMENTS FOR BASE GAME 86% ACHEVMENTS FOR DLC AND IM ONLY 1/3RD OF THE WAY INTO THE GAME

wonder what thats going to sound like to any new player asking me about this game hmmmm

Elo106

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

As for the powergrowth they said up till 1200 CP it will be easier but after 1200 it stays the same. You need a lot more than 1200 to max out on your active power. So yes grinding for years a new player who wants to play in competitive pve or pvp will be screwed for so long.

Everstorm

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

That playstyle is a choice. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I was a hardcore raider in Everquest and in the top five warriors with most earned AA points (similar to CP). I don't enjoy that anymore, not even in a guild in ESO.

LarsS

What most seem to missunderstand is that chars will be much stronger than before when they reach lvl 50. For exemple all will have a 15% base mitigation. The new CP system is nerfed quite a lot compared with the old one, so the power creap is much smaller. Presently I have 4.7K spell penetration form cp, on my main build, max in the new system is 1.7K.

Marto

Even assuming this happens...

If ZOS gives existing players more CP to make up for the accelerated XP curve, they'll need to adjust the curve to let new players catch up...

And then they'll need to give existing players more CP to make up for it. Then adjust the curve again to make it possible to catch up...

And then they'll need to give existing players more CP to make up for it. Then adjust the curve again to make it possible to catch up...

And so on.

Elo106

Everstorm wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

That playstyle is a choice. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I was a hardcore raider in Everquest and in the top five warriors with most earned AA points (similar to CP). I don't enjoy that anymore, not even in a guild in ESO.

Good for you but cant you see how a lot of those competitive players wont even start playing eso? New players are important to keep a game alive, only new casual players would mean endgame dies out, which is bad for the game.

The "if you dont enjoy it, dont do it" argument is bad because it translates to "dont enjoy the game, dont play" instead of just improving the game

FrancisCrawford

For a character to be optimal, you really do need a huge number of CP.

In particular, almost every non-slottable blue CP possibility is useful on the same character.

Everstorm

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

That playstyle is a choice. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I was a hardcore raider in Everquest and in the top five warriors with most earned AA points (similar to CP). I don't enjoy that anymore, not even in a guild in ESO.

Good for you but cant you see how a lot of those competitive players wont even start playing eso? New players are important to keep a game alive, only new casual players would mean endgame dies out, which is bad for the game.

The "if you dont enjoy it, dont do it" argument is bad because it translates to "dont enjoy the game, dont play" instead of just improving the game

Competitive endgame players are also a small minority, especially in ESO which has way more content for solo questing. ZOS will be more interested in attracting and keeping those players. See the addition of companions.

SaucyMcSauceface

ThorianB wrote: »

There is no reason to grind to 3600 CP. You can do everything in this game with a few hundred CP at most.

lol. "everything"...if you discount most endgame achievements...

ThorianB

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

There is no reason to grind to 3600 CP. You can do everything in this game with a few hundred CP at most.

lol. "everything"...if you discount most endgame achievements...

I don't consider an achievement to be content. I am talking about playable content.

Icy_Waffles

First of all your friend feeling despair and not wanting to play IS ON YOU.

Secondly, to get to “end game” it actually is much MUCH simpler. This system gives incentive to keep going if you WANT to. Do you want to be miserable and grind and drive yourself away from the game?

Or do you want to play as you do, and enjoy getting more cp and the rewards from that by continuing to play?

xAKlMB0xSLlCEx

Kurat wrote: »

If you grind like hell, I mean 4-5 hours a day, 365 days, then you should get to max cp in 2-3 years. It may take 10 years for casuals.
I'm currently around cp1400 and it takes 1.1 mil xp to gain next cp. And it takes me an hour to grind that 1 cp. The more cp you get the more xp is required obviously. So the end will be really tedious. But to cp1200 should be couple of months only and that's enough for any content.

Read what you just wrote and tell yourself that is ok.

grinding 4-5 hours a day for 2-3 years is whats expected to reach max level? how is that fun for anyone.....

Pepegrillos

I played World of Warcraft for years. Until around May last year I was playing Classic Wow. One thing people know about Classic is that it takes relatively long to reach max level (60). If you know exactly what you are doing and optimize your leveling routes, it can take you between 5 to 7 days played to go from level 1 to level 60. Then you can start gearing up, doing dungeons, raids, and pvp.

In ESO it took me around 6 or 7 months to reach cp810, playing almost everyday for at least a few hours. The comparison is hard to make because I didn't keep track of the /played days it took, nor I was actively grinding CP each one of those hours I played. In any case, it seems to me that the grind as it is now is already gruesome, and much worse than in almost any other (western) MMO out there.

I tried to get some friends into the game. As soon as they realized how long it takes to reach max level they declined. I probably won't try to convince them now that the cap has been raised significantly. Why bother?

MrZeDark

Uhh I like leveling -- I'm 1175, and I'm happy to see my levels will be worth something again.

Leveling doesn't kill MMO's - At it's core, an MMO is about progress and building, not getting to max level as quickly as possible. As being top level doesn't make you good, nor does the gear you want. The player behind the keybaord/gamepad is what makes the character good.

I'm so excited about the new CP's, and the mention of how we will be getting a new XP Curve - it's gonna be great.

Luke_Flamesword

You don't need max level to enjoy a game. In couple weeks you can have enough level to make 99% game content. You can make even hardest content on todays 810 CP (or even lower if you are good) and this is not even halfway to max level. Also - overland content (95% of game) is very easy, PvP can be player on noCP (problem solved) and all dungeons and trials except few DLC ones can be easily beated even on veteran difficulty. There is so much easy content in this game - before you will finish all of this, you will be on high enough level to also beat a veteran content.

Nolic1

If CP started being earnable at level 1 and then had a cap of 600 for those with out a character at level 50 I think the new 3600 cap would feel more like an alternate leveling system then what is in place now do to the fact 3600 depending on how they do the catch up EXP could push new player away. Letting players earn CP from Level 1 allows them to see what there working for from the start and not something like a max level added leveling system this is were I think the CP system has been a problem for many new players. But then many would say well then most player would be able to use CP 160 gear easier and well not if they fixed the crafting system to make all materials worth while instead of making most useless except for furniture and writs which is not enough use when looking at ways to keep us from having massive stock piles of resources for lower level gear. But there are many ways this could be made to feel like it should an alternate leveling system.

Universe

No one needs all 3600 champion points...
You and your friend will be absolutely fine with 1/3 of that amount in the new system(Unless you're looking for maximizing vertical power potential).

MrZeDark

Universe wrote: »

No one needs all 3600 champion points...
You and your friend will be absolutely fine with 1/3 of that amount in the new system(Unless you're looking for maximizing vertical power potential).

Yup...

People who keep wide-eyeing 3600 clearly haven't tested it yet. It's all about your standard 4 ACTIVE CP's and some passives - everything else to to change out your ACTIVE CP's.... which won't really be important unless switching from PvE to PvP -- or maybe you wanna be a bit tank like by yourself.

Even with my 1168 on PTS, I already have a comfortable build -- with some vision on how I could grow myself alternatively.

KuroyukiESO

Kurat wrote: »

If you grind like hell, I mean 4-5 hours a day, 365 days, then you should get to max cp in 2-3 years. It may take 10 years for casuals.
I'm currently around cp1400 and it takes 1.1 mil xp to gain next cp. And it takes me an hour to grind that 1 cp. The more cp you get the more xp is required obviously. So the end will be really tedious. But to cp1200 should be couple of months only and that's enough for any content.

Not even. You could do it in a few months if achieving max CP is your only goal. Maybe the change to 3600 will increase that to closer to a year, but I doubt it. I am sure there will adjusted scaling. Either way, it doesn't take anywhere near as long to get to max CP as some people seem to think.

Also, I just want to say that the idea of a thread called "Tired of CP Leveling" coming into existence after 2 years of having no CP level is kind of ironic.

Massacre_Wurm

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

As for the powergrowth they said up till 1200 CP it will be easier but after 1200 it stays the same. You need a lot more than 1200 to max out on your active power. So yes grinding for years a new player who wants to play in competitive pve or pvp will be screwed for so long.

Competitive ? You mean like people pushing for top scores in vet trials and top pvpers ? Thats like <1% of playerbase.

You can do almost everything in the game with cp 300+ just fine.

master_vanargand

The new CP is too problematic.
So I make the following request.

Change all CP passives to slots.
Eliminates the condition for using the CP slot.

This is the true horizontal direction.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Why call it a grind? You get experience automatically just for playing the game. So, just play the game, relax and have fun. A watched pot never boils.

Besides, the whole point of the CP revamp is to put an end to the endless vertical powergrowth. At a certain point you don't become stronger, you just get more options that you can't use simultaneously.

This is fine if you are playing casualy but endgame pve and pvp its not. People who grinded more will have an advantage so to stay competitive you are "forced" to grind.

As for the powergrowth they said up till 1200 CP it will be easier but after 1200 it stays the same. You need a lot more than 1200 to max out on your active power. So yes grinding for years a new player who wants to play in competitive pve or pvp will be screwed for so long.

Competitive ? You mean like people pushing for top scores in vet trials and top pvpers ? Thats like <1% of playerbase.

You can do almost everything in the game with cp 300+ just fine.

You can do casual level gameplay naked too so what?
Should we add 100 level of rarity to gear because you can complete normal dungeon with green items?

Not everyone is casual player and you don't need to be a top end game player to be competitive.

PvP is by nature competitive regardless of skill level,you don't need to be the top 1% you know,grinding zombie should not reward people esp in PvP.

Getting better at the game and complete hard content to get the best stuff should reward people not mindless zombie slaying to get passive stat.

Only because for you(?)or any casual player is fine because your gameplay content is doable anyway dosen't mean that people who are more serious about the game are not affected by the change and be forced to grind to stay relevant instead of you know actually playing the game.
And im not talking about the top 1%.

300 CP might be fine for you not for anyone that for example want to PvP.