I'm a competent PVE player who doesn't understand why I am so awful at PVP. It's so frustrating.

JJMaxx1980

So for some background, I am a CP 1000+ PVE player with a ton of achievements under my belt for veteran hard mode dungeons and trials. I really love challenging myself with PVE content. I have spent 10+ hours trying to kill a single boss before. (I wouldn't recommend this as it will cause you to stop being friends with your groupmates and contemplate your life decisions.) I say this to let you know that I am good at this game. I'm not a new player or a 12 year-old scrub. I'm a 30-something year old IT professional who enjoys playing MMORPG's in my spare time.

So despite my general disdain for PvP in general, mostly due to the toxicity of a certain percentage of the playerbase, I decided to attempt to try my hand at PvP during this event. I had a Warden Healer that I hadn't played in a while so I paid for a race change and after turning my cute female wood elf healer into the beefiest, baddest Nord dude Tamriel has ever seen. I named him after the God of Death and I was on my way. After a quick Google search I saw that 2H Stamina Warden is a good meta class and I would be able to find lots of juicy videos of how to play. All the gear was made or farmed, golded out with golden enchants, the works. Paid someone in Craglorn to run me through Skyreach a dozen times or so to level all my skill lines and bought a ton of skyshards and mount speed upgrades from the Crown Store. I made a thousand poisons, potions and a stack of food. It was all coming together. I took him to kill some world bosses to see how the abilities felt and finally I was ready to enter the world of PvP...

...I made a huge mistake.

My stats are the same as the videos and builds. Gear is the same, race is the same, but everyone I met in Cyro or BG's was practically unkillable while my character that was supposed to have 'great survivability' folded like a Wal-mart lawn chair. I have since spent hours seeing if it was a fluke and nothing really changed. I mean it doesn't even feel close. It doesn't feel like I'm 80-90% less than other players, it feels like I'm 10% less. It was awful. Every BG was third place and Cyro and Sewers were just as bad. My heals and shields did nothing, my attacks didn't put a dent in their health and I was dead in seconds. Bless my guild, they tried to help, they went over my sets, my skills, my stats and it didn't help.

I feel that I am an intelligent person. I troubleshoot computer software and hardware as a profession and I can only come to one conclusion.

PvP has a skill gap that is absolutely enormous. It's the only explanation and it's really disheartening. I put a ton of time and effort and actual money into building this character only to be a speed bump for the majority of players. I'm trying as hard as I can and I don't wanna get salty but I'm finding it tough. One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

I don't know what to do now. I was so excited and now I don't even want to play with him anymore. If the answer is that I need to practice for months or years to even be competent just seems so unbalanced. I can't imagine what a new player would go through if I can't even do this.

Someone in my guild said I should make a bomber so I don't actually have to fight anyone I just stealth around and blow people up. Maybe that's more my style. I don't know.

Sorry for the wall of text. Just needed to vent...

Sylvermynx

The one thing about pvp that you need to understand is that the learning curve here is HUGE. @VaranisArano could explain far better than I can - but the gist is that no matter how good you are in pve, and how good your gear is, until you get your mental frame of mind reset to the pvp mindset, you're going to be not so good.

It's a lot of dying, a lot of looking at death recap, a lot of tweaking how you react - and to some extent how fast you can react (which may have as much to do with your ping as your ability to react).

And I'll stop there, because I don't pvp any more, and never have in this game, so I'm not as useful about this as others will be. I do wish you luck, and that you eventually have fun.

Oh, one other thing you might think about is finding a good pvp guild.

NoSoup

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

So for some background, I am a CP 1000+ PVE player with a ton of achievements under my belt for veteran hard mode dungeons and trials. I really love challenging myself with PVE content. I have spent 10+ hours trying to kill a single boss before. (I wouldn't recommend this as it will cause you to stop being friends with your groupmates and contemplate your life decisions.) I say this to let you know that I am good at this game. I'm not a new player or a 12 year-old scrub. I'm a 30-something year old IT professional who enjoys playing MMORPG's in my spare time.

So despite my general disdain for PvP in general, mostly due to the toxicity of a certain percentage of the playerbase, I decided to attempt to try my hand at PvP during this event. I had a Warden Healer that I hadn't played in a while so I paid for a race change and after turning my cute female wood elf healer into the beefiest, baddest Nord dude Tamriel has ever seen. I named him after the God of Death and I was on my way. After a quick Google search I saw that 2H Stamina Warden is a good meta class and I would be able to find lots of juicy videos of how to play. All the gear was made or farmed, golded out with golden enchants, the works. Paid someone in Craglorn to run me through Skyreach a dozen times or so to level all my skill lines and bought a ton of skyshards and mount speed upgrades from the Crown Store. I made a thousand poisons, potions and a stack of food. It was all coming together. I took him to kill some world bosses to see how the abilities felt and finally I was ready to enter the world of PvP...

...I made a huge mistake.

My stats are the same as the videos and builds. Gear is the same, race is the same, but everyone I met in Cyro or BG's was practically unkillable while my character that was supposed to have 'great survivability' folded like a Wal-mart lawn chair. I have since spent hours seeing if it was a fluke and nothing really changed. I mean it doesn't even feel close. It doesn't feel like I'm 80-90% less than other players, it feels like I'm 10% less. It was awful. Every BG was third place and Cyro and Sewers were just as bad. My heals and shields did nothing, my attacks didn't put a dent in their health and I was dead in seconds. Bless my guild, they tried to help, they went over my sets, my skills, my stats and it didn't help.

I feel that I am an intelligent person. I troubleshoot computer software and hardware as a profession and I can only come to one conclusion.

PvP has a skill gap that is absolutely enormous. It's the only explanation and it's really disheartening. I put a ton of time and effort and actual money into building this character only to be a speed bump for the majority of players. I'm trying as hard as I can and I don't wanna get salty but I'm finding it tough. One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

I don't know what to do now. I was so excited and now I don't even want to play with him anymore. If the answer is that I need to practice for months or years to even be competent just seems so unbalanced. I can't imagine what a new player would go through if I can't even do this.

Someone in my guild said I should make a bomber so I don't actually have to fight anyone I just stealth around and blow people up. Maybe that's more my style. I don't know.

Sorry for the wall of text. Just needed to vent...

Haha bombing can be even more frustrating, spent 4 hours in IC last night and only got 1 good chain reaction (it paid off big when it finally happened). You really need to wait to find a group that has that one person running around with sub 20k health......

Miszou

Gonna pre-empt everyone telling you to learn light attack weaving, as though that's a real part of the game and not a bug that was ignored and eventually became a "feature".

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Was attacked in the IC, just fooling around with my new char Gloria The Red. He died really fast. At this point my LA/Bloodthirst weave is off the chain, and after switching stuff around, my second bar does LA/SteelTornado almost as well.

I dunno, 100,000 health NPCs just melt in front of her. This guy too apparently.

Now I have done PvP way back when with other chars, so I have some idea.

Mindcr0w

OP you didn't become good at pve overnight. At 1000+ cp you've put real time and effort in. I understand that it may feel like those skills should carry over to pvp, but it really is a very different experience. If you are jumping into pvp for the first time it really will be somewhat comparable to starting from the bottom up all over again.

Miszou wrote: »

Gonna pre-empt everyone telling you to learn light attack weaving, as though that's a real part of the game and not a bug that was ignored and eventually became a "feature".

It doesn't matter if it was intended or not (it wasn't), it is a part of the game now, and not doing it properly will handicap you. So this statement is nonsense

etchedpixels

It took me a fair amount of battlegrounds to get from completely useless to useless. Things I learned that helped - and I still suck so there is much more I have to learn!

- Don't stop moving
- Block except when you don't need to (remember you can use a lot of skills while blocking)
- Roll dodge to avoid stuff
- PVP honours line of sight, pillars, walls and the like are your friends
- Use skills that let you drop damage on someone and run/move (e.g. stuff like daedric curse)
- Keep with the group in most situations and target whoever they are targetting - go for the weakest, the lowest health targets first, hit the same person from multiple people
- Potions - not just healing but invisibility and others
- Attack combinations matter, hitting someone with multiple things that fire at the same moment, especially if you can knock them over or stun them
- Play in a group especially outside of BG

Some of it seems to just be muscle reaction though. I roll dodge when jabs happen before my brain wakes up, ditto breaking free the moment it happens. That's improved my PVE too.

As to healers - your average PVP healer is a different beast because healers are walking targets in PVP. They probably have a mix of heavy/light armour, shields and other damage mitigations. In CP cyrodiil/IC they'll also have a load in resistances.

I actually take my PVE tank into Cyrodiil with our group or now and then solo equipped with sword/board and healing staff and skills but mostly heavy armour and lots of damage mitigation. I've had one on one fights doing a scouting mission with non expert PVP players where they spent 5 minutes trying to kill me and then left. On the other hand a good PVP player can take me down in seconds.

Waffennacht

First off; how old are these videos?

If youre looking at a video thats like 6 months old; it wont do you any good.

The Meta has been tanky for a while; however, the specific builds vary greatly.

What may have worked then wont work now.

Are you running Vate destro/master destro/Zaan /Crimson malacath

Or Zaan, 2h Vate and Crimson, and malacath?

Its a high health proc meta.

Aside from skill these are things to consider

JJMaxx1980

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off; how old are these videos?

If youre looking at a video thats like 6 months old; it wont do you any good.

The Meta has been tanky for a while; however, the specific builds vary greatly.

What may have worked then wont work now.

Are you running Vate destro/master destro/Zaan /Crimson malacath

Or Zaan, 2h Vate and Crimson, and malacath?

Its a high health proc meta.

Aside from skill these are things to consider

I'm running New Moon/Clever Alchemist/Balorgs

baselesschart

There have been a lot of good replies offering very good advice, learning how to pvp and execute your combo is going to be essential for you to efficiently take down people in pvp.

Unfortunately, this is as worst a time as ever to begin to pvp, not to discourage you, just the game is in its unhealthiest pvp state that its ever been in. Its filled with tanky builds that rely on sets to do all your damage for you, its a very unskillful meta that isn't very rewarding. You also generally don't get punished if you make a big error in an encounter. Keep learning how to seamlessly execute your combo and maintain your buffs and heals, and you'll be on your way to at the very least staying alive. Most people are walking tanks so I can't guarantee you'll kill them right away.

AAbrigo

Tbh there is a big skill gap in pvp.

I am a 1100+ cp player and have mainly played pvp, so at this point it is easy to kill newbies to pvp.

While I am *** to PVE and gets carried alot I have the biggest respect for you guys.

I got a few advises:

1. Keep CC'ing on cooldown if possible.. Once people are out of stamina they are usually dead.

2. Never stand still like in PVE - You will die in seconds from a good burst.

3. Learn your burst combo. If you dont got one, then you probably wont kill anyone.

4. Keep your defensive buffs up. Kite and use obstacles if needed. (Dead players doesnt kill anyone)

5. Learn by looking at your death recap. Whisper the person if you see a skill you dont know about or google it. You cant defend if you dont know what your up against.

6. Practice, Practice and practice.. You wont learn it in a few hours, but once you get the basics down, then you will have fun i cyro 😊

Probably miss some stuff, but will get you started atleast.

Berenhir

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

So for some background, I am a CP 1000+ PVE player with a ton of achievements under my belt for veteran hard mode dungeons and trials. I really love challenging myself with PVE content. I have spent 10+ hours trying to kill a single boss before. (I wouldn't recommend this as it will cause you to stop being friends with your groupmates and contemplate your life decisions.) I say this to let you know that I am good at this game. I'm not a new player or a 12 year-old scrub. I'm a 30-something year old IT professional who enjoys playing MMORPG's in my spare time.

So despite my general disdain for PvP in general, mostly due to the toxicity of a certain percentage of the playerbase, I decided to attempt to try my hand at PvP during this event. I had a Warden Healer that I hadn't played in a while so I paid for a race change and after turning my cute female wood elf healer into the beefiest, baddest Nord dude Tamriel has ever seen. I named him after the God of Death and I was on my way. After a quick Google search I saw that 2H Stamina Warden is a good meta class and I would be able to find lots of juicy videos of how to play. All the gear was made or farmed, golded out with golden enchants, the works. Paid someone in Craglorn to run me through Skyreach a dozen times or so to level all my skill lines and bought a ton of skyshards and mount speed upgrades from the Crown Store. I made a thousand poisons, potions and a stack of food. It was all coming together. I took him to kill some world bosses to see how the abilities felt and finally I was ready to enter the world of PvP...

...I made a huge mistake.

My stats are the same as the videos and builds. Gear is the same, race is the same, but everyone I met in Cyro or BG's was practically unkillable while my character that was supposed to have 'great survivability' folded like a Wal-mart lawn chair. I have since spent hours seeing if it was a fluke and nothing really changed. I mean it doesn't even feel close. It doesn't feel like I'm 80-90% less than other players, it feels like I'm 10% less. It was awful. Every BG was third place and Cyro and Sewers were just as bad. My heals and shields did nothing, my attacks didn't put a dent in their health and I was dead in seconds. Bless my guild, they tried to help, they went over my sets, my skills, my stats and it didn't help.

I feel that I am an intelligent person. I troubleshoot computer software and hardware as a profession and I can only come to one conclusion.

PvP has a skill gap that is absolutely enormous. It's the only explanation and it's really disheartening. I put a ton of time and effort and actual money into building this character only to be a speed bump for the majority of players. I'm trying as hard as I can and I don't wanna get salty but I'm finding it tough. One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

I don't know what to do now. I was so excited and now I don't even want to play with him anymore. If the answer is that I need to practice for months or years to even be competent just seems so unbalanced. I can't imagine what a new player would go through if I can't even do this.

Someone in my guild said I should make a bomber so I don't actually have to fight anyone I just stealth around and blow people up. Maybe that's more my style. I don't know.

Sorry for the wall of text. Just needed to vent...

A good basic game knowledge is also very important for PvP.

First, PvP is about disabling your enemy's defenses while using this window to burst him. Especially on a warden. Stun your enemy into your burst combo. Timing is everything in PvP.

There are a lot of classes out there and a lot of different builds. You should basically know all the classes and all the build archetypes of these classes with their everchanging fotm like you know boss and mob mechanics. So without knowing every ability and every common set in game and what it does, you won't be very successful in PvP.

This is down to the fact that you have to quickly tax your enemy and decide on the proper way to kill him as there are different approaches for different builds/classes.

The same goes for defense. When you fight a sorcerer as a stamina toon, you have to know that all sorcerer's burst around their haunting curse explosion. So when you get cursed, you immediately know that he will burst you in 3 seconds and you have to count down and to dodge or block the burst then.

The more enemies you have on you, the harder this gets. You only get better by practice and experience.

ivramirez

My friend that's you a PvE player, imaging people who only do PvP. The feeling just continues to grow.

Just to let you know there is "NO SKILL GAP", there is only one way to play the game. Prove that by yourself. Get yourself a purple crimson set, get whatever proc set you find and last but no least become werewolf + malacath.

Please let me know what is your experience after those changes.

WaywardArgonian

Hey, I'm not the greatest when it comes to talking specific sets or skills, but I know what it's like to get into PVP and feel like you're getting nowhere at first, so I'll just share a few things that helped me stop feeling like a scrub. I hope some of it will help you out, too. A pre-emptive apology for the wall of text.

I went through sort of a similar thing, although my efforts were much more sporadic and, I guess, varied. I also made a stamina Warden in the months before Summerset was even released, but even though I got to a point where I became pretty decent at duelling other players, my performance in battlegrounds and Cyrodiil left a lot to be desired. I had some survivability, but I'd struggle to even get a single kill in. Other players just seemed to possess a savviness that I did not have.

One thing I eventually learned is that mobility in PVP is very, very different from what it's like in PVE. When you do a lot of PVE, you have to unlearn the impulse to constantly change position and dodge enemy attacks, and rather just form a compact stack and rely on your healer. By contrast, if you do PVP afterwards, you have to unlearn the PVE habit of standing in one place to do a rotation.

There's gonna be a lot of movement in PVP, and first of all you need to consider your own movement: What is your gap closer? How do you make sure you hit your enemy while you stay on the move and remain hard to hit? When do you dodge roll? Etc. Then you need to consider enemy movement: When do they dodge roll? When do Nightblades cloak to reposition themselves? Are they going for a brawl or are they trying to stay ranged? Then there is other stuff, like breaking line of sight, knowing how to react to CC, etc.

How to learn this? The boring answer is lots and lots of practice. It took me many, many, many hours of PVP before I could reliably engage an enemy by myself and have a reasonable hope of coming out on top. You need to learn your skills until they are muscle memory, become comfortable with your environment and learn not to panic.

In addition to doing tons of Battlegrounds and engaging in fights in Cyrodiil (without relying on a zerg to bail you out), there's stuff you can do outside of PVP. To get familiar with a new PVP rotation, I do the same thing I used to do when I learned my first PVE rotations: just do it all the time when questing, exploring, etc. When I do a delve or a story quest, I put on my PVP gear and use my combos on mobs. It really gets to a point where I'll sometimes apply buffs inbetween crafting tables while doing my writs. That stuff should not even require any thought during combat and this is one way to achieve that. If you want to do a more advanced training, another thing I've seen KristoferESO (a great PVP'er) do is engaging enemy trash mobs and trying to take them down without taking a single hit. This teaches you to observe enemy movement and react accordingly while also keeping an eye on your resource management.

Finally, I'll say that, while the learning curve of PVP is steep as a whole, I personally think it's even steeper for melee classes. Players are much more slippery than NPCs, and it can be hard to keep track of them if you're melee. I personally started on a Stamden as said, but temporarily gave up on PVP after I just couldn't make it work. The way I got back into it was by starting to PVP on a Magsorc, which, like in PVE, is a class that's both strong and relatively easy to pick up. I don't recommend spending tons on golded-out gear and such: just get some decent starter gear and start doing Cyrodiil sieges and Battlegrounds to see if you can get some kills in. Then just enjoy the experience and witness yourself grow. Also feel free to try out different things out. Your build can work perfectly for the person who created it, but not suit your style at all. For instance, I need tons of mobility to feel comfortable in combat, so I will often invest in speed and flexibility over raw damage or godlike sustain.

The great thing about PVP is that the experience you gain on one class will partially carry over to others. Doing a Cyrodiil campaign as a Stamcro made me a better Magsorc player. Doing tons of Battlegrounds on a Magsorc helped me start kicking ass on a Magblade, which in turn allowed me to play a Stamblade and a Stamplar pretty effectively right out of the gate.

Anyway, I hope there's at least some info that'll be of help to you. I know how frustrating it can be if something doesn't seem to work out while it should, but I think it's a natural thing for ESO PVP and something tons of people go through before they become decent fighters.

Waffennacht

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off; how old are these videos?

If youre looking at a video thats like 6 months old; it wont do you any good.

The Meta has been tanky for a while; however, the specific builds vary greatly.

What may have worked then wont work now.

Are you running Vate destro/master destro/Zaan /Crimson malacath

Or Zaan, 2h Vate and Crimson, and malacath?

Its a high health proc meta.

Aside from skill these are things to consider

I'm running New Moon/Clever Alchemist/Balorgs

There's a big problem right there @JJMaxx1980 there's no way Id run that without a ton of PvP experience.

Thats all burst stat damage; clever and Bal gotta be timed correctly to get anything out of them.

0 defensive sets imply either quick kills; or relying on LoS - when clever is on cooldown and Bal, you have only 1 set providing anything.

This is Not a new PvP player friendly build at all

HankTwo

You seem to have a couple of misconceptions about PvP plus you play an outdated build that is not beginner friendly in the current meta as Waffennacht mentioned.

For example:

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

Good healers in PvP are not squishy, far from it. A good PvP healer is a mix of a tank and healer than can stalemate 95+ % of 1v1s. What you need to understand is that in PvP you need to find a sweet spot between defense and offense. Too much offense and not enough defense means you will either get bursted or easily pushed to the defense with no way of a comeback (unless you are already a good PvPer and really know what you are doing, then you can make certain glass canons work). Too much defense and you wont be able to kill anybody. A reasonable amount of mitigation and hots, plus some good damage pressure or a strong burst combo is what you should be looking for. And this is not just about your build, it is also about play style. A build with decent mitigation and awesome hots still will melt if you dont keep your buffs up and know when and how to play defensive.

So before you venture into PvP, you gotta ask yourself the following things:
- What is my offensive strategy? --> Upfront burst combo, pressure, counter punching, burning stam with cc spam, ... There are lots of options but your class already dictates what tactic might be best (for example, stamden excels at upfront aoe burst).
- What is my defensive strategy? --> Just a build with good stats on paper is not enough. You need to have a useful combination of hots, health regen, burst heals, shields, block, dodge roll, mobility to kite, disengage tools, purges, projectile defense, mitigation, ... Not all of it in one build but a decent combo of multiple defensive maneuvers and you need to know in what order or as a reaction to what attack you have to use them.

There is nothing really that compares to PvP in PvE. Vet DLC hm dungeons for example are group content with well defined roles. As long as you follow mechanics as a dd and the tank and healer follow their roles you are fine. In contrast in PvP, the squishiest target in an enemy group will be focused and killed first (unless no target is really squishy and the enemy has a good healer). Even solo content like vet maelstrom and vet vateshran favor high dmg low mitigation builds far more than PvP does. Plus, crit stats, ground aoes (like endless hail) and damage done heals (like swallow soul) are awesome in PvE but have limited use in PvP.

Essentially if you want to succeed in PvP you have to open up your mind to this - for you - new type of content and accept that what you learned in PvE only has very limited use in cyro or bgs. The best advice I can give you is to find a newcomer friendly PvP guild that is still composed of at least decent players. Big zerg guilds wont teach you much. And then do some practice duels and join mid scale group play (5 ~ 8 players) in cyro with someone good at PvP and who knows how to teach and just listen to his/her advice. That way you can have very good progression in a relatively short amount of time.

Thogard

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off; how old are these videos?

If youre looking at a video thats like 6 months old; it wont do you any good.

The Meta has been tanky for a while; however, the specific builds vary greatly.

What may have worked then wont work now.

Are you running Vate destro/master destro/Zaan /Crimson malacath

Or Zaan, 2h Vate and Crimson, and malacath?

Its a high health proc meta.

Aside from skill these are things to consider

I'm running New Moon/Clever Alchemist/Balorgs

This is a build from last patch, not the current one. It's a very tough build because to play it you'll be in 600 stam regen / mag regen. Im assuming you're also using malacath.

Still strong but crimson twilight is a must in 1vX.

To be honest the single most important thing for PvP is to get good at guessing when you can and when you can't win a fight. Knowing which fights to avoid or retreat out of is 50% of being good at PvP. That ONLY comes with experience.

Just keep at it. Stick to BGs - they're better for learning since you'll get more fights in with less downtime. Dueling is important too. Once you're good at BGs and dueling, then i'd feel comfortable venturing out into cyrodil.

Vevvev

Waffennacht wrote: »

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off; how old are these videos?

If youre looking at a video thats like 6 months old; it wont do you any good.

The Meta has been tanky for a while; however, the specific builds vary greatly.

What may have worked then wont work now.

Are you running Vate destro/master destro/Zaan /Crimson malacath

Or Zaan, 2h Vate and Crimson, and malacath?

Its a high health proc meta.

Aside from skill these are things to consider

I'm running New Moon/Clever Alchemist/Balorgs

There's a big problem right there @JJMaxx1980 there's no way Id run that without a ton of PvP experience.

Thats all burst stat damage; clever and Bal gotta be timed correctly to get anything out of them.

0 defensive sets imply either quick kills; or relying on LoS - when clever is on cooldown and Bal, you have only 1 set providing anything.

This is Not a new PvP player friendly build at all

Agreed, those sets are really hard to survive with once they've worn off. Clever Alchemist is at least forgiving in that it gives you health buffs, but if you don't have a good defense it's not going to do you well.

Also in PVE you do a rotation as apart of your role but in PVP you've probably learned that even if you pull off a PVE rotation perfectly your foeprobably just healed through it, stunned you, and dumped a burst on ya.

PVP is all about burst damage and sustainability. Why building tanky is the way to go while saving your bursts for when you see an opening. People only die in PVP when they're unable to react which is why stuns and CC are a must on every build.

Lephrel

This pvp skill gap is a myth. If you are good in pve, you will be good in pvp. The only reason that genuinely good pvers suck in pvp is because they run awful setups or because they panic when attacked.

Since you didn't provide us with the specifics of your build, here are some general tips for improving it.

• Run heavy armour and 40k hp.
• Malacath is op af for heavy armour wardens.
• Weave in heavy attacks into your rotation, this is usually something pve players are unfamiliar with. This way you can invest in more weapon damage.
• Frontbar skills: Vigor, sub assault, dizzying swing, executioner, bird of prey, dawnbreaker/onslaught
• Backbar skills: Arctic blast, leeching vines, pierce armour, ice fortress, bull netch, 1hs ultimate

In 1v1 situations, all you really need to do is keep your buffs up, and time your dizzying swing with sub assault and your ulti, to maximize burst. I cannot stress this enough, vigor and leeching vines must have 100% uptime. Download action duration reminder if you don't already have it.
Now if you're outnumbered, you might be able to facetank the damage if your opponents are your typical MYM pve players, otherwise try to use los and defensive ultimates to reduce the incoming damge. Focus on the squishy ones, so you can even the odds quickly.

Pretty sure that's all there is to it. If you wanna see some decent warden gameplay, you could probably check out kodis old videos. There aren't many good pvpers uploading videos anymore, but I'm sure there's some more recent clips out there as well.

VaranisArano

Oh, you have my sympathy. This sounds a lot like my experience trying out the pre-Morrowind Blazeplar. I'd been playing my MagDK in PVP long enough to want something new, something that would be more powerful than my so-so skill level of MagDK. At the time, Blazeplar was THE 1vXer build that everyone complained about on the forums, proclaiming that it was easy-peasy cheese. This is a build so overpowered that ZOS later specifically nerfed Blazing Shield into the ground in response.

I looked at the build and thought "I have a templar! The gear is easy to get! Its OP! Let's do this!"

After building myself a blazeplar and heading into PVP, I felt ready to take on the zergs the way all the forum complaint posts assured me I'd be ready to.

Haha, haha, no.
I died. A lot.

Thing is, I had the gear and the build, but I didn't have the experience, reflexes, and practice to play a blazeplar effectively. Those players who made it look easy had played their blazeplars for more than a couple hours.


You gotten a lot of great advice above, so I mostly want to offer the assurance that you aren't the only players to bring a new build into PVP and - despite all the build videos saying it'll be amazing - it doesn't go well.

Yeah, there's a skill gap in PVP. Some of it is reflexes, some is recognizing tactics, but mostly I think its just getting comfortable with your build and how you like to play in PVP. My blazeplar experience was what taught me that there's no build I can slap on that will guarantee me amazing results. I, personally, have to practice with a build before I'm any good with it. On a more encouraging note, this was also what pointed me back to my MagDK. Armed with the understanding that practice would make me better moreso than changing my gear/class/build, I went back to playing MagDK and have gotten a lot better than I was.

The more you play, the more you'll get comfortable with your PVP build and the more you'll learn what works, what doesn't, and how to recognize and counter what your opponents are doing.

Good luck!

peacenote

Lots of good advice in here, and sometimes it helps to vent, but I'll add one thing I haven't seen which is less scientific... sometimes a build/style just might not be your style.

When I first started in PvP, I decided to do a sniping stam nightblade build that I found which I think suggested using archer's mind. I set up everything perfectly and I HATED it. I just could not kill anyone and died all the time. That character was benched for a long time.

Since then I have spent time as a templar BG healer, which I enjoyed, and recently made a magicka NB which I just absolutely LOVE. And I didn't really like the magicka NB in PvE.

So sometimes things just don't click. And you might get there with practice, or it might be that this setup isn't for you. Doesn't mean all is lost for you in PvP in general.

ThorianB

OP,

Pvp is a different beast than pve. In PVE you are fighting a script. Its predictable. It always does the same thing. PVE can be conquered with formulas, spreadsheets, tables, and graphs. Pvp is chaos. Players are unpredictable. It isn't about how good your character it is, or how good you rotation is, or how much DPS you are doing. Its more like boxing. Moves and counter moves. You have to be able to react and counter whatever is being thrown at you. You have to be able to counter the unpredictable.

It takes some practice to train yourself to think on your feet as opposed to know what is going to happen before you even start combat. It is just something you have to practice.

Sorbin

Lots of others have given good advice. You've got the right mentality in that you're willing to self-analyze and seek advice. As others have said, your build is pretty heavily outdated by this point, and won't have the tools to survive the onslaught of proc damage that can be so easily applied in this meta. Crimson is the best counter to this, but I would suggest Eternal Vigor as well, especially as a place to start since you can buy it from traders. You won't have the same level of tankiness as Crimson, but with a little awareness and positioning you will definitely be in a better place than you are now. Something along the lines of Eternal Vigor/New Moon/Malacath/Master Sword and Board backbar would be plenty good enough for mashing potatoes and give you a place to start while you piece together something more optimized.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

There is a lot of good advice and good PVPers in this thread.

PVP isn’t simply about what’s on the spreadsheet. There’s a ridiculous amount of spacial awareness needed to navigate 30 to 50 or more people in one fight.

Personally today I did everything “wrong” intentionally to test out a new build. I was only grouped for about 20 minutes with one buddy who doesn’t PVP and the other 3 hours I was solo. Using a COMPLETELY 100% PVE STYLE build with light armor, 23.5K health and 60K magic I finished a kill 40 and a kill 20 wardens.

I didn’t use a proc set. I didn’t use heavy armor. Just ingenuity and experience.

Do I recommend doing this? Hell no. I’m a crazy person who has been PvPing in Cyrodiil since the beta.

What I do recommend is brewing a bunch of really expensive immovable and invisibility potions, and never standing still.

Lastly ... the meta on PC is likely quite different than consoles. There is NOTHING that isn’t worth trying on console. Everyone dies. Not everyone truly lives. If you’re dying a lot then change your build to something “they” say won’t work.

Because “they” don’t know what you’re capable of. Only you do. You got this!

Dunning_Kruger

You will learn. Don’t try and pve your enemy down. Watch wait block pressure and burst. There aren’t any short cuts.

Feizao

I've tried to teach a few friends how i play my stamblade. Personally, i think its more important to get skill and rotations down before stressing over gear and stats, its a learning experience. Get use to comboing from muscle memory then we can improve stats. Then introduce defensive play like kiting, which can be used in other pvp games.
Have someone lead you around and point out things to look out for. A build video tends to show highlights and not so much the slow build up.
Disclaimer: i havnt pvp'd during this proc meta. so glhf

Pauwer

Ok, the sets are the problem and using a guide from the internets. Because those are way too complicated sets to use when new at pvp. Also you want loads of resourse recovery, those sets don't give that. You could try a defensive monster set. Malubeth, chudan or bloodspawn, something like that. Stam warden, your sort of mid range melee skills work the best imho. So i would actually go dual wield/2h. Then i would use eternal vigor at all times. Then as for the other set, if you don't want to die, use crimson. You will be able to fight long, but you are not the op killing machine. But if you want to make more kills, i really would put like hulking draugur on at first or something like that. Then like go all crazy infused weapon damage jewellery. So i'd go for eternal vigor in jewellery and weapons. And then you can switch the armor set between heavy and med as you want. And have your health over 28k when you don't have any buffs on.

Also if you put on the pale order ring on your dw aoe damage med armor stam warden, it's the best. Imho.

Also if you want to use malacath, make sure to change cp points. I was running it for some time with like 50 cp into the attribute that boosts crit stam damage. Hehe. Silly me. Oh gawd, makes me giggle every time i think about it.

Hope you have some good times pvping

oXI_Viper_IXo

No amount of YouTube videos, guides, gold gear, or badass character names will make up for the years of experience many PvP players have.

Accept that you will die often, wear more survivability based gear, and go out and learn through experience. It's the only way.

Join up with a PvP guild and run in groups rather than trying to Chuck Norris the enemy zerg.

Provin915

When I started ESO I initially only played PvE content. I'd do PvP if I was done with most PvE content. Now that there's a PvP event I just couldn't resist playing PvP. I had never played PvP in ESO before this event; perhaps 1 or 2 duels but I didn't understand the game back then.

Now, I can clearly see who's a PvP or PvE player during BG's. I'm also doing BG's with full PvE gear/spec (no CP). I think it's a matter of match up as well. I can 2 shot squishy targets. Against experienced players I really need to use every ability and skill I have to win 1on1. But don't forget, it's a team game. I play a NB and some match ups are easy and some are straight up impossible. I also play with random's in BG's and sometimes we just come across a 40k unkillable tank and I just immediately go for another target, because I know it'll take too much time to kill that person and his teammates can just freely DPS when everyone is focussing the tank.

But yea it's like others have stated as well; there's a different skillcap in PvP. You can completely master your class/spec in PvE but in PvP you'd have to play in another way and sometimes think differently. As with everything, practice practice and practice..

Artorias24

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

Its like dark Souls PvP. If you See a Warrior in big armor, with Giant swords. Really badass. Dont worry.

But If you See someone naked, with a broken sword and wooden planks as a shield. Oh boi, run for your Life.

Baccarooda

What helped me the most was getting to grips with all the classes, be it playing them myself or watching videos on how those classes killed/survived in pvp. For the longest time my biggest concern in pvp was coming across a MagNB, because i just didnt understand how the class killed so i would always die to them.
After deciding to play one myself and get to grips with the class i finally realised how to fight it. Long story short if you know what you are up against chances are you know the weaknesses of the class, helped me a bunch... Goodluck, you will get there in the end.