I'm a competent PVE player who doesn't understand why I am so awful at PVP. It's so frustrating.

  • Brenticus12
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    Miszou wrote: »
    Gonna pre-empt everyone telling you to learn light attack weaving, as though that's a real part of the game and not a bug that was ignored and eventually became a "feature".

    It's not a bug and has never been a bug not matter how much you people try to rewrite history lol. Not only is it a feature in ESO, it's a feature in a large majority of video games, especially in competitive big stage esport games.
  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
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    OP from what I understood from your post you tried your hand at pvp during this event? If so, of course you wouldn't be good at it yet, imagine how much practice it took you to be good at pve, then it's the same thing: you need to put all that practice in pvp as well. They're vastly different playstyles, and even though pvp has a rudimentary rotation in terms of buffing and combos, it's almost entirely a reaction based playstle, and you need to adjust it second to second. I think it's too early for you to be disheartened, make sure you undterstand your build (why the specific sets, why the specific skills), and also understand other classes from a pvp point of view, so you can learn to counter as well. I'd say to follow a build that offers more survivability at first, so you don't get one-shotted and you have some room to attack and learn, and then play more offensively, if that's what you'd like. But like becoming a good tank/dd/healer in pve, it takes practice and patience. Good luck!
  • puupaa
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    Yea, not beginner friendly sets. But it really doesn't matter that much when learning. If dying a lot bothers you, you can exchange damage for mitigation, health and/or resource sustain of course.

    But here's what you could practice on a dummy. Sub Assault -> Dizzying Swing (+start charging Heavy Attack) -> Heavy Attack -> Dawnbreaker of Smiting (+start charging Heavy Attack) -> Heavy Attack -> Executioner. See how short you can make the window they hit in (Recount Addon for example).

    Then try it on someone who looks oblivious and not tanky.
  • The_Lex
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    It might be helpful to newer PvPers if someone compiled a list of the classes, explaining their general offensive and defensive playstyles in PvP (i.e., ST burst, AOE burst, tanky, squishy, etc). I know from experience that some classes can be played differently but, for the most part, the classes have a general playstyle in which they excel.

    YouTube videos tend to give a patch tier list, which may not always be helpful to those who are learning.

    Edited by The_Lex on February 3, 2021 1:40PM
  • Thraben
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    The true skill in PvP is picking the right targets. Every monkey could win with a usual Vateshran/Zaan/Mist health build.
    So you have to pick targets that can possibly die within a reasonable time.

    That's the "secret" behind most 1vsX videos you took inspiration from.
    Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs

    DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.

    DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.
  • THEDKEXPERIENCE
    THEDKEXPERIENCE
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    The_Lex wrote: »
    It might be helpful to newer PvPers if someone compiled a list of the classes, explaining their general offensive and defensive playstyles in PvP (i.e., ST burst, AOE burst, tanky, squishy, etc). I know from experience that some classes can be played differently but, for the most part, the classes have a general playstyle in which they excel.

    YouTube videos tend to give a patch tier list, which may not always be helpful to those who are learning.

    I don’t really pay much attention to classes in PVP. But I absolutely pay attention to each individuals health bar. If it’s 40K plus you’re not defeating them without help. Meanwhile even if your health is 60K but you’re hovering below 40% in front of me you’re basically dead already.

    99.999% of my PVP experience is on a Magplar so I’ll give a hint on how to best combat them. Most Magplars are essentially useless 1 on 1. Personally I think it’s the worst 1 on 1 class because Magplars don’t really have an instant spamable ranged ability that can hurt a full health opponent.

    But 2 on 2? 3 on 3? 30 on 30? Magplars are terrifying in groups. They can lob massive heals back and forth repeatedly (or at least they could outside of groups until the changes) and radiant oppression is still a monster if you’re specced right.

    The tool tip value on my RO is about 11.5K. If you’re in execute range it can nearly quintuple. Essentially if you’re under about 40 or 30% health and I see you I’m going to hit you with 40 or 50K damage in under 2 seconds. I don’t even need to be who you are fighting. I just need to see you and be within like 40 meters.

    So yeah, avoid tanks and avoid getting your health below 50%. Shields are your friend.

    Oh ... and don’t rely on bar swapping. That 0.1 seconds it takes to swap (or more if you’re lagging) can be a death sentence. Personally I have an offense bar with a shield and a defense bar with a shield. I’d much rather sacrifice one offensive slot for defense than rely on bar swapping mid battle.
  • jaws343
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    I would say your first mistake was leveling your character in Skyreach.

    If you are new to PVP, never never never pre-level your character. Always level in BGs or below 50 Cyrodil.

    Why?

    Your skills, from a PVP perspective, are completely foreign. The way to survive and kill is entirely different from a PVE environment. Power leveling to jump into PVP for the first time is putting you at a huge disadvantage.

    When I first started out with PVP in the game, I created a new character and leveled 1-50 in below 50 PVP. Then, I deleted that character and started another one in a different class. Rinse and repeat for every class.

    What did this do for me? It put me into a campaign where people were not fully specced out with all of their skills, and there was a good mix of new players who were also learning PVP. It basically evenly matched me, or at least more evenly than over 50 PVP.

    It also gave me a feel for each class, how they fight, how they defend. And it forced me to learn skills as I was leveling them in PVP. On a sorc for example, you don't get shields for quite a while, so learning to survive without them helped with basic defensive skill learning.
  • THEDKEXPERIENCE
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    @jaws343 mentioned “basic defensive skill learning” which is vital.

    Did you know that jumping takes no stamina? When all else fails the simple act of jumping can save you.

    Also, did you know that rapid maneuvers, while really expensive, is a better use of your stamina pool when storming a keep then plain old running? If you pop rapids you’ll have a big decrease instantly and then you’ll “walk” faster than other people run while you regain stamina and they lose it. If you arrive to the target at the same time guess who will have more stamina at the point it comes to fight? The person who used rapids for that 10 second dart into the keep.

    Typically in battle I use zero stamina. I don’t run in the battle. I run to it or away from it. Not in it. I try to shield instead of block unless I have to block. Sometimes you have to block. You’re not going to shield through an ice comet but you can block most of it.

    In practice what this means is if I’m in a keep assault I have full stamina to do the following as a last case move. Roll, jump, roll, jump, roll backwards, jump. No one ever expects the roll backwards. Then it’s either time for pure offense, pure defense or an invisibility potion.

    This is how you defense in Cyrodiil. Or at least how I do.
  • Faded
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    I feel that I am an intelligent person. I troubleshoot computer software and hardware as a profession and I can only come to one conclusion.

    PvP has a skill gap that is absolutely enormous.

    That's right. The answer is time and experience. Reading, building smart, etc. may shorten your learning curve, but there's no way around that.

    Free advice: don't start with a stamden or any S-tier spec. It will permanently skew your understanding and expectations and stunt your competence. It's not worth it for a slightly easier beginner experience.
  • Septimus_Magna
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    If you put accomplished PVPers in a vet HM trail they will most likely struggle as well. Its the same game but a completely different kind of combat. In PVP its very easy to waste resources or time your CC at the wrong moment. It takes a long time to learn even the basics, dueling is a very good way to learn PVP. Each class or build fights different so you need to adjust to that, I think stam builds have a higher ceiling but are more difficult to get used to in the beginning. Resource sustain (especially stamina) can be tricky at first because most players who are new to PVP tend to block, dodge and sprint too much. Practice makes perfect, I wouldnt expect anyone to be decent at PVP with less than 3 months experience tbh.

    Dueling is a good way to get the hang of PVP combat, it gets a lot easier once you've memorized a couple offensive and defensive combo's.
    PC - EU (AD)
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
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    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
    Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer
  • WabanakiWarrior
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    Baccarooda wrote: »
    What helped me the most was getting to grips with all the classes, be it playing them myself or watching videos on how those classes killed/survived in pvp. For the longest time my biggest concern in pvp was coming across a MagNB, because i just didnt understand how the class killed so i would always die to them.
    After deciding to play one myself and get to grips with the class i finally realised how to fight it. Long story short if you know what you are up against chances are you know the weaknesses of the class, helped me a bunch... Goodluck, you will get there in the end.

    Yep this ^ get experience on every class. Once you learn other class' burst combos, all you have to do is interrupt the combo somehow. A NBs set up for a burst is useless if you dodge their spectral bow. A ranged burst from a mag sorc can be countered if you force them into melee range. A dizzy/executioner build can be countered by constant melee repositioning (staying out of a dizzy hitbox). Warden burst relies on sub assault, once you learn to recognize the animation, you can avoid the burst (and also block the stun that usually proceeds it).
    This will also help you learn the best moment to go on the offensive! When a nb pops an incap his damage against you is increased. The moments after incap is when they hit their biggest burst. That also means most NBs will ignore defense for a few seconds and just go for blood. You can either hold block and weather the few seconds of damage or use their bloodthirst to your advantage and catch them tripping (delayed warden sub assault is excellent for this)
    PS4 NA
    Grand Master Crafter, PVP, Housing nerd
  • hexentb16_ESO
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

    Someone in my guild said I should make a bomber so I don't actually have to fight anyone I just stealth around and blow people up. Maybe that's more my style. I don't know.


    Lol don't make a bomber. Bombing is what players who lack skills do. Its too easy and is nothing but cheap shots.

    I'd know, I used to be a bomber. Everyone knew my name on xbox. Even after my 2 year break one guy was like "Oh hey you're that guy that everyone hated for bombing them!"

    But really though. To me it sounds like you just need to adapt to the pvp playstyle. Stolen builds and guidance can only get you so far. You need to learn the pvp playstyle yourself. I tried other people's builds for a while too but even the most OP and unfair builds shared by "pros" sucked. It wasn't until I learned the nuances of pvp and developed my own skill level that I got good at it. If you get smart and skilled enough when it comes to pvp you can even start making your own builds that most pvp'ers never use but still kick loads of ass.

    Roll with a pvp guild in cyrodil for a while and you'll eventually get it! <3
    Edited by hexentb16_ESO on February 3, 2021 6:00PM
  • katorga
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    There’s a ridiculous amount of spacial awareness needed to navigate 30 to 50 or more people in one fight.

    This.


  • Pixiepumpkin
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    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    The one thing about pvp that you need to understand
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    And I'll stop there, because I don't pvp any more, and never have in this game


    "Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes
  • orion_1981usub17_ESO
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    Pvp has but one rule to rule them all... pick on the weak, and right now your the weakest link. You must think in a pragmatic ruthless mindset that tosses out honor and mercy for killing power and grit. When you enter pvp treat it like you just arrived at prison and your the fresh fish, who's the baddest one around, do what they're doing. Literally copy the best fighters in winning faction because they already min and maxed the meta... and care not for the sniveling of honorubu losers.

    In the end it's really just a game, if you don't mind dying and being teabags then play as you want. But I suggest you look into who actually farms opposing factions for AP... you want to be emulating them if not running with them. Pvp is about picking on the weak, and you are at your weakest alone, and at your strongest in a large group with a single coordinator flowing like a school of fish... a deadly school if fish.
  • oscarovegren
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    First off; how old are these videos?

    If youre looking at a video thats like 6 months old; it wont do you any good.

    The Meta has been tanky for a while; however, the specific builds vary greatly.

    What may have worked then wont work now.

    Are you running Vate destro/master destro/Zaan /Crimson malacath

    Or Zaan, 2h Vate and Crimson, and malacath?

    Its a high health proc meta.

    Aside from skill these are things to consider

    I'm running New Moon/Clever Alchemist/Balorgs

    There is better sets then NMA for the moment. Titanborn, stuhns, spriggans, syvarra, unleashed terror, unfathomable darkness are all better sets, specially with malacath (Which I assume you have equiped)
  • NagualV
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    I've been there OP. Keep at it though, and you will see the improvement. I'll use a jiu jujitsu/martial arts analogy....

    When you first walk in as a white belt, you get destroyed constantly. I mean CONSTANTLY. At this point it's your resolve that gets tested more than anything. You feel helpless at times, like you're total garbage lol.

    But.

    After a few months, some new white belts walk in(mid year mayhem, etc). THAT is when you suddenly realize how much progress you have actually made. You destroy them and almost feel bad for them. You were that total noob once, and now you're not. That gives you some confidence to continue. After that, if you focus on yourself and maintain your resolve, you continue to improve, all the while still pretty much getting destroyed in the process.

    You and you only control your progress(dont complain about others skills, nerf this and that lol)
  • Anyron
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    In pvp there is no meta. Yes, there are players running similar builds but always play it diferently.
    You must use what you are used to use and what fits you. Everything new means you have to start completely over. Pvp is also more about bombing damage, rather than sustained damage. Control your health and resources and wait for proper moment to unleash it.

    Most of things related to pvp requires time to learn. You have to know what to do before you need to do it - to do it almost automatickly.

    As about someone said about running in group, thats not essential. I play only with my brother or solo, i wasnt in pvp group over 5 years. You just have to play it safe and go there only if you think you can handle it. Worst thing what you can do is rush somewhere when you dont know what is there. That happens a lot in groups and thats why i dislike them.

    Edit: you can't beat everyone in pvp, there is always someone better than you but with planning and clever playstyle you can get better
    Edited by Anyron on February 4, 2021 5:19PM
  • crazepdx
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    Op, I get the frustration. Reading through a lot of these replies must seem confusing too. Disclaimer: I'm not an awesome pvp God. However when the game is working, I love it, although I didn't always. Like I said I get the feeling. Quick points.
    -Find friends to duel with. From every class. Hopefully ones good at pvp. Remember all the time spent dummy humping to get your rotation and timing for pve? They are your dummies.
    -Everything that makes you successful in PVE will get you killed in pvp, pretty much, except for the way you learned to be successful in pve. PVP is a different game using the same platform.
    -Yes its a tank and proc meta. Learn in your dueling like it isn't. What I mean by that is learn the fighting skills dueling like it isn't current metathen when you put on your proc stuff it will augment your skills. Bonus when the meta changes next patch or whenever you can adapt.
    Note not saying the meta is changing, am saying in the 2 years I've been playing I have gone through far too many times having to relearn a build because things changed.
    - Burst and mobility is going to be your friend.

    Hope it helps.
  • Kory
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    I've gotten better at pvp by observing the more experienced players, and listening to and reading discussion on what is effective. Watching build videos simply because I want to hear them explain why they use what they use.
  • StarOfElyon
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    So for some background, I am a CP 1000+ PVE player with a ton of achievements under my belt for veteran hard mode dungeons and trials. I really love challenging myself with PVE content. I have spent 10+ hours trying to kill a single boss before. (I wouldn't recommend this as it will cause you to stop being friends with your groupmates and contemplate your life decisions.) I say this to let you know that I am good at this game. I'm not a new player or a 12 year-old scrub. I'm a 30-something year old IT professional who enjoys playing MMORPG's in my spare time.

    So despite my general disdain for PvP in general, mostly due to the toxicity of a certain percentage of the playerbase, I decided to attempt to try my hand at PvP during this event. I had a Warden Healer that I hadn't played in a while so I paid for a race change and after turning my cute female wood elf healer into the beefiest, baddest Nord dude Tamriel has ever seen. I named him after the God of Death and I was on my way. After a quick Google search I saw that 2H Stamina Warden is a good meta class and I would be able to find lots of juicy videos of how to play. All the gear was made or farmed, golded out with golden enchants, the works. Paid someone in Craglorn to run me through Skyreach a dozen times or so to level all my skill lines and bought a ton of skyshards and mount speed upgrades from the Crown Store. I made a thousand poisons, potions and a stack of food. It was all coming together. I took him to kill some world bosses to see how the abilities felt and finally I was ready to enter the world of PvP...

    ...I made a huge mistake.

    My stats are the same as the videos and builds. Gear is the same, race is the same, but everyone I met in Cyro or BG's was practically unkillable while my character that was supposed to have 'great survivability' folded like a Wal-mart lawn chair. I have since spent hours seeing if it was a fluke and nothing really changed. I mean it doesn't even feel close. It doesn't feel like I'm 80-90% less than other players, it feels like I'm 10% less. It was awful. Every BG was third place and Cyro and Sewers were just as bad. My heals and shields did nothing, my attacks didn't put a dent in their health and I was dead in seconds. Bless my guild, they tried to help, they went over my sets, my skills, my stats and it didn't help.

    I feel that I am an intelligent person. I troubleshoot computer software and hardware as a profession and I can only come to one conclusion.

    PvP has a skill gap that is absolutely enormous. It's the only explanation and it's really disheartening. I put a ton of time and effort and actual money into building this character only to be a speed bump for the majority of players. I'm trying as hard as I can and I don't wanna get salty but I'm finding it tough. One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

    I don't know what to do now. I was so excited and now I don't even want to play with him anymore. If the answer is that I need to practice for months or years to even be competent just seems so unbalanced. I can't imagine what a new player would go through if I can't even do this.

    Someone in my guild said I should make a bomber so I don't actually have to fight anyone I just stealth around and blow people up. Maybe that's more my style. I don't know.

    Sorry for the wall of text. Just needed to vent...


    While there are definite problems with PVP currently, in my opinion, if you're a new PVP player, you're just going to get mopped up for a while. You have to learn playstyles, anticipating the next move, positioning, and even plotting steps ahead of the moves you're making because if you get lost in the moment, you're going to find yourself on your heels. It takes time to learn to spot the signs of when things are about to go south and to disengage before they do. So basically, die a lot and learn from each death.
  • Joy_Division
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

    PvP has a skill gap that is absolutely enormous.

    I'd say it's more of an experience thing. And you're running a build that is very thin on resources and has no inherent tankiness at all, which means it takes a ton 6th sense intuition that you can only garner from hundreds of actual fights to use effectively.

    Think about it. If someone who has zero experience could just copy and paste a youtube build they never played and then performed even halfway decently, then whatever the activity/competition is, it would be a joke. The forums may give the impression that ZOS's changes are tailored to the "floor," PvP has been "dumbed down," and armor sets "carry" bad players, and to an extent they're not wrong, but at the end of the day an experienced player will beat someone who has never set foot in Cyrodiil (especially because they don;t like it. I'm a big believer in negative attitudes affect agility, but that can be debated) 100% every time no matter what set-up they use. There is no substitute for experience.

    Another factor is you put yourself in PvP environments that aren't exactly friendly to inexperienced players. In battlegrounds, you're almost always outnumbered as there are 8 enemies and you only have 3 allies, which puts a much greater onus on yourself for survival compared to Cyrodiil. IC/Sewers is going to be even more unfriendly because once you drop from you're safe base, you potentially have no allies and if you don;t have a highly mobile build or know the nooks and crannies, you're going to be easy prey, especially since many of the people who run IC are highly experienced players that specifically hunt other players for Tel Var.

    This doesn;t make Cyrodiil necessarily easier, but it is more forgiving as generally there are a lot more allies and friendly structures like resources and castles that are like the proverbial shallow end of an otherwise deep pool.
    It's really disheartening. I put a ton of time and effort and actual money into building this character only to be a speed bump for the majority of players.

    That's just your ego talking. And, as mentioned above, you didn't do your ego any favors running a build that requires a lot of experience in difficult environments. You just need experience. And to adopt expectations that are commensurate to what actually goes on in PvP
    One time I ran into a templar healer who was capping a flag at Cropsford and after 20 minutes of not being able to kill him, I just left. I should be able to kill him. A giant mountain of a Nord barbarian with a giant two-handed axe should have no problem cleaving down a squishy templar healer.

    Yes, that sounds about right. If I build a healer, there is 0% chance an inexperienced player will be ever able to kill her because, as you noticed, a build that doesn't take into account survival is a speed bump, and healers first order of business is not dying.
    I don't know what to do now. I was so excited and now I don't even want to play with him anymore. If the answer is that I need to practice for months or years to even be competent just seems so unbalanced. I can't imagine what a new player would go through if I can't even do this.

    Someone in my guild said I should make a bomber so I don't actually have to fight anyone I just stealth around and blow people up. Maybe that's more my style. I don't know.

    Well, I wouldn't recommend running a bomber because that requires very precise timing and a lot of 6th sense intuition. Good players make it seem easy, but it's not.

    If you were genuinely excited to try, then I'd say don't allow what were unrealistic expectation to ruin that enthusiasm. It won't take you years or even months to become competent. I'd recommend playing multiple classes/styles that you actually like playing (as opposed to what you've been told is meta) which relatively efficient PURPLE gear (to go with a gold PvE weapon) mess around a bit in cyrodiil (recommend "zerg surfing" as opposed to joining a LFG group) just to get your feet wet. embrace and expose yourself to challenging situations (as opposed to running/cloaking/streaking away) and in not too long of a time you'll be better than a huge chunk of the player base, which tends to shy away from challenging/difficult situations.
  • erio
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    How old was the video? If its anything over a month or two its outdated.

    Builds on youtube are never going to be what they say they are, the guy could of thrown some mumbo jumbo together, killed 3 people with it and hit the record button. These guys are farming for clout and views.
    Edited by erio on February 6, 2021 12:36AM
  • UntouchableHunter
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    Don't worry. I play pvp since I started to play this game, after 700 CP and 3 years I started to see my skills really growing.

    But here some tips that can help you.

    1- Join a regular pvp build and go to Cyrodill You will feel stronger in a group and will learn how important your mobility is. You will see a lot of different play styles and you guild will help you.

    2- Take some time playing BGs and small groups in Cyrodill. Go after resources with two or three friends. You will fight against one or two players most of the time giving you time to survive and learn.

    3- Find somebody better than you and duel a lot. You will improve and learn die a lot in duels and eventually you will start to win.

    4- Go to IC alone. The best players are there in my opinion. You will see them oftentimes there, you will remember their names, and styles, how the move, what they do when they are in trouble and how they reset the fights.

    5- Be patient. PVP ins this game is amazing because there are so many levels of players that you will never stop to improve.
    Edited by UntouchableHunter on February 6, 2021 4:07AM
  • fred4
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    Ways to get a start in PvP and find some early success:

    #1: Duel friends at your own level to have fun, or against better players so you can learn from them.

    #2: Play a (nightblade) sniper. You won't be able to 1v1 good players, you may not even dent them, but you will land killshots and finish people off in larger fights.

    #3: Play a tanky werewolf wearing something like Alessian + Eternal Vigor.

    #4: Join a group on Discord and follow the instructions of the leader.

    #5: Play the meta. As others have pointed out, your build is out of date. Aim for 40K health (in CP). Use Arctic Blast. Use Malubeth. Use a Vateshran 2H as your offensive weapon, 1H+Shield on the back bar. Pay attention to health regen, such as from gold foods and Eternal Vigor. Crimson Twlight is also popular.

    I personally don't like warden. I cannot help with the specifics of that class, but I'm going to promote my latest video to illustrate a few points. This was done on a stamsorc:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VniS3OdmC6k

    Point 1: While the meta dictates you should probably use a Vateshran 2H and Dizzying Swing, there are other builds that are effective and, frankly, easier to play. I play such a build, a Master's 2H Brawler build. It's something you could give a try, because there is some similarity to PvE. I treat players like dangerous mobs in PvE. I constantly keep swinging to get the Brawler shield and try to hit the whole group. This won't work against good players, but as you can see it can be very effective in a low MMR BG.

    Point 2: Speed is highly effective. I'm a stamsorc and I run 3x Swift jewelry plus Wild Hunt on that build. You can be slow and tanky or you can be fast and hard to hit. Never stand still. With the arrival of Swift, Wild Hunt and Race Against Time, as well as using a bow, this playstyle is not limited to stamsorc, though it suits stamsorc better than warden. I recommend you at least try Wild Hunt. If you watch the whole thing, you will note I am extremely tanky at times, due to either Brawler + Crit Surge or due to dodge rolling + high speed. A few times I screwed up and got slaughtered by the purple team. Note: In general warden is tankier than stamsorc. I would recommend stamsorc for the movement, not for tankiness.

    Point 3: You go on the attack when you have your buffs up. Your armor buff. Your Arctic Blast. Your netch for the sustain. And so on. Once those run out you typically have to cast several skills to get them all back up. Whenever you are casting a defensive buff, look for line of sight. Look for a pillar or tree to run around. Run around a corner and, when you're done, run straight back. If you're in trouble, even just running back and forth around the corner of a building or in and out a doorway is highly effective. Players are not solid. Your opponents will follow you and usually have a delayed reaction to your direction changes. They'll run into some building while you already run back out and right through them. That BG map was not good to illustrate this, of course. It favors ranged attacks, group play ... or stamsorcs.

    As a sorc, of course, I have Streak. This makes my buff management easy to see. When I streak in that video, it's often to get out of range and rebuff myself. You can also see one instance where I fell into lava and, half dead, streak through a whole bunch of players in front of me. On the whole, if the zerg isn't endless, I rate streaking or rolling forwards through other players as a better percentage play than running away from them. Turning your back on other players to flee / reposition is actually quite dangerous. It means you are exactly in front of them. They don't have to adjust their trajectory and they will hit you and punish you for that. By the same token I'm always looking to be at the edge of the fight, with no opponent behind me. As soon as you get attacked from behind by an unknown assailant, you must react to that. You can't get tunnel-visioned on the kill in front of you. The best reaction to an unexpected attack is usually a dodge roll. Don't keep rolling, just do it once to avoid the (nightblade) burst that is invariably coming.
    Edited by fred4 on February 8, 2021 10:34AM
  • fred4
    fred4
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    I forgot: If on PC, get Miat's PvP Alerts addon. I find the following features from that addon useful:

    There is a "ding" sound when a new opposing player attacks you. Probably the most useful feature of the addon as it's your cue to dodge roll or to escape. When you hear "ding ding ding ...", indicating a zerg has just targeted you, it's your cue to get out. On classes other than nightblade or sorc that could mean the 1H+S ult, the warden trees, Race Against Time, Mist Form, and so on.

    There is a player count feature that (gradually) tots up the number of players from different factions you had in your view.

    There is a keep and resource feature that shows you the status of the keep you are near and the surrounding resources. Great to figure out where to go. In Imperial City it permanently shows the status (color) of all the districts. If they're all your own alliance color, maybe it's time to farm a boss. If they're changing, maybe it's time to bank your Tel Var, and so on.
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