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No nord changes ?
-
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭All you get dead Nord race that is all.
I just change race OK, but donot want to see Redgard nerf next update, becouse all tanks will go it.
Or some other update, where all tanks imigrate on.
I do not want race changes each updait. I do not want any race changes already !
As long as even i get race change tokens, I care becouse I need change character appiarence.
And if I do not, just wait when some of your race will be nerfed, because all tanks imigrate to it, becouse it is good tank or best tank + can be DD, that can not be compared to too small ADD to tankeness, soTanks will not take it, and just take your race.Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 7:32AM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is and will continue to be your best bet.
Edited by twing1_ on February 2, 2021 7:33AM3 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
It really depends what is the content you play. If it's only random normal each day with an occasional vet DLC dungeon run, than Nord isn't that good. But when it comes to vet trials, trial speedruns and ultimately Tri-fectas, Nords are the best for tanking.Olupajmibanan wrote: »@AyaDark
I believe Nord ultigen is still stronger than Imperial 6% ulticost reduction. It interacts with Decisive trait (which is the go-to trait on one-handers for tanks) and allows the tank to prepare horn +-3 seconds faster (not counting decisive procs) than Imperial. And in serious end-game content, the best tanking race = the one that can boost group dps the most.
Also Nord resistances are helpful to reach resistance cap and allows them to easily wear group dps boosting monster sets such as new Encratis Behemoth.
0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
I main a night blade tank.
But that's besides the point, it is common knowledge that tanks try to maximize the damage output of the rest of the group. That's why the meta for tank gear is claw of yolnakrin and roar of alkosh, and not sustain sets like eternal vigor and willows path.
Aggressive warhorn is the go to ultimate for all tanks to use because of the critical damage it grants to your group, unless you are a necro tank in which you want to maximize major vulnerability uptime.
If you aren't aware of these facts, I am highly skeptical of your experience in tanking end game group content.0 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭
...
No one just will play nord, becouse:
Nord are bottom DPS.
Bottom healer.
And not best option for tanks.
It is just as with imperials before.
And i do not want change race each updait or stay on dead race !
Your rampage about the nord race is seriously gone out of hand.
you want the class to be the best in everything?
and it IS the best option for tank and my nord tank will still shine in endgame content, that will not change because i loose 2% mitigation
and my healer is still a nord and i complete Endgame with it no probs, i even like the more HP/stam compared to other healers (Hp could be overkill with new patch)
Edited by Xuhora on February 2, 2021 7:46AM1 -
JohnOfMarkarth✭✭✭Why would there be Nord changes, when they have finally balanced the race?
Id bet its still going to be the most popular tank race, yes it got some minor nerfs, good.Why would there be Nord changes, when they have finally balanced the race?
Id bet its still going to be the most popular tank race, yes it got some minor nerfs, good.
Ridiculous notion.
ALL. RACES. CAN. TANK.
But nords are useless everywhere else in any MEANINGFUL way compared to most other races.
Not to mention. A warrior race... cant hit harder than a feeble skin n bones egg yolk elf?
Really...I can't do this anymore. Every small ... petit change that went against any semblance of sense has snowballed into an avalanche of (Penn & Teller:) Bulls...!
Gods, bless me with patience.5 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
It really depends what is the content you play. If it's only random normal each day with an occasional vet DLC dungeon run, than Nord isn't that good. But when it comes to vet trials, trial speedruns and ultimately Tri-fectas, Nords are the best for tanking.Olupajmibanan wrote: »@AyaDark
I believe Nord ultigen is still stronger than Imperial 6% ulticost reduction. It interacts with Decisive trait (which is the go-to trait on one-handers for tanks) and allows the tank to prepare horn +-3 seconds faster (not counting decisive procs) than Imperial. And in serious end-game content, the best tanking race = the one that can boost group dps the most.
Also Nord resistances are helpful to reach resistance cap and allows them to easily wear group dps boosting monster sets such as new Encratis Behemoth.
Ok, but even so, Imperial will get ultimate faster in such condition, so NORD is not again even a choise.
3 ult per second , minor, major heroism , and 6% less ultimate cost.
So as example War Horn buff with cost:
250 ultimate cost 15 ultimate less.
And nord get it on 30 seconds +
250/(2.66 from both heroism + 3 base ult gen)
44 seconds to get or + 0.621 per second ult gaine more with Decisive, so 39 seconds.
Som ideal conditions only first 2 war horns will be a little faster on Nord, and then Imperial be better.
But in reality you need get hit to activate it , so Imperial be much better even in ultimate.
Including bar swap and other tanks tasks, i think it will not even be difference on any tanks. Not only nord, imperial and etc.
And if you are Trifectas tank we can just take situations where it can work, and i think we will se that there are no such situations.Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 8:02AM1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Just understand i do not protect the race, i just change it next update.
I just say this is underperforming.
I do not care about race itself.
I just do not want change it each update.
I already was Imperial->Nord than who ? Redgard ? After nerf of Redgard -> ?Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 8:10AM1 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭I want to take two points here:
First, what are you defining as better performance?As TANK, Hybrid race have better perfomance than nord do.
Second, as a DK, more ultimate = more sustain. That's how the passives work. That's why DKs tend to use the cheapest ultimate available to them (Leap, Dawnbreaker, Shield Wall).Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Nord is still very far from being the worst option in PvP and still remains one of the best for PvE tanking.@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
It really depends what is the content you play. If it's only random normal each day with an occasional vet DLC dungeon run, than Nord isn't that good. But when it comes to vet trials, trial speedruns and ultimately Tri-fectas, Nords are the best for tanking.Olupajmibanan wrote: »@AyaDark
I believe Nord ultigen is still stronger than Imperial 6% ulticost reduction. It interacts with Decisive trait (which is the go-to trait on one-handers for tanks) and allows the tank to prepare horn +-3 seconds faster (not counting decisive procs) than Imperial. And in serious end-game content, the best tanking race = the one that can boost group dps the most.
Also Nord resistances are helpful to reach resistance cap and allows them to easily wear group dps boosting monster sets such as new Encratis Behemoth.
Ok, but even so, Imperial will get ultimate faster in such condition, so NORD is not again even a choise.
3 ult per second , minor, major heroism , and 6% less ultimate cost.
So as example War Horn buff with cost:
250 ultimate cost 15 ultimate less.
And nord get it on 30 seconds +
250/(2.66 from both heroism + 3 base ult gen)
44 seconds to get or + 0.621 per second ult gaine more with Decisive, so 39 seconds.
Som ideal conditions only first 2 war horns will be a little faster on Nord, and then Imperial be better.
But in reality you need get hit to activate it , so Imperial be much better even in ultimate.
Including bar swap and other tanks tasks, i think it will not even be difference on any tanks. Not only nord, imperial and etc.
And if you are Trifectas tank we can just take situations where it can work, and i think we will se that there are no such situations.
Nord will get warhorns out about 1 second faster than imperial, on average.
Ignoring decisive trait because of claimed inconsistency and also because it would give the edge to the nord.
Imperial maths:
Warhorn cost: 235
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/ sec both heroism = 5.66/second
235/5.66= ~41.5 seconds
Nord maths:
Warhorn cost: 250
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/sec both heroisms + 0.5/second racial = 6.16/sec
250/6.16= ~40.6 seconds
This is worst case scenario for nord, because if both races are using the decisive trait then nords will be even faster because they receive another method of generating ultimate, giving the trait even more chances to proc. In real world situations, the gap between nord and imperial ultigen is even larger, with Nords beating out imperials by more than the aforementioned second.Edited by twing1_ on February 2, 2021 8:34AM1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I want to take two points here:
First, what are you defining as better performance?As TANK, Hybrid race have better perfomance than nord do.
Second, as a DK, more ultimate = more sustain. That's how the passives work. That's why DKs tend to use the cheapest ultimate available to them (Leap, Dawnbreaker, Shield Wall).Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Nord is still very far from being the worst option in PvP and still remains one of the best for PvE tanking.
It do not work like that.
Yes you get resources from ultimate. Only on DK. Tanks can be not only DK in first place.
Even if you get it, if you get ultimate with same speed, +6% to economy is better becouse you get resources from other sources too. And you need not have such big resources pool than.
If you take tank for party support you may be even take some other for more ultimate gain or better ultimate.
If you take it for better tanking you will may be take more comfortable - redgard than.
You just take it out of real conditions to compare. Even in such conditions it is underperforming the same way.
If you kill boss, you may be will need War horn each 10seconds.
To do it each tank and heal must do it by CD.
To get it you need 39 seconds on any tank, or 37 on nord/imperial to start with.
So it do not metter who the tank is for ult gen.
If you need to make it by 3 people - than you will use some skill as example wampire ult drain. So you can do it on each tank again.
And get enough ultimate to let 2 tanks cast it will be impossible, becouse to start with, you will get 10 ultimate in perfect condition than ?
25 seconds or 23.5 on nord or 23 .5 on imperial ?
Even in perfectconditions that will not happen you need 3 people to make 100CD.
And in real one people have a lot of tasks to do, to just support your DPS.
And if you use special sets for that again, each tank will be possible to make it again.
So no real proffit.
Even in 100% perfect condition - no proffit !
And even less in real one.Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 8:35AM0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
It really depends what is the content you play. If it's only random normal each day with an occasional vet DLC dungeon run, than Nord isn't that good. But when it comes to vet trials, trial speedruns and ultimately Tri-fectas, Nords are the best for tanking.Olupajmibanan wrote: »@AyaDark
I believe Nord ultigen is still stronger than Imperial 6% ulticost reduction. It interacts with Decisive trait (which is the go-to trait on one-handers for tanks) and allows the tank to prepare horn +-3 seconds faster (not counting decisive procs) than Imperial. And in serious end-game content, the best tanking race = the one that can boost group dps the most.
Also Nord resistances are helpful to reach resistance cap and allows them to easily wear group dps boosting monster sets such as new Encratis Behemoth.
Ok, but even so, Imperial will get ultimate faster in such condition, so NORD is not again even a choise.
3 ult per second , minor, major heroism , and 6% less ultimate cost.
So as example War Horn buff with cost:
250 ultimate cost 15 ultimate less.
And nord get it on 30 seconds +
250/(2.66 from both heroism + 3 base ult gen)
44 seconds to get or + 0.621 per second ult gaine more with Decisive, so 39 seconds.
Som ideal conditions only first 2 war horns will be a little faster on Nord, and then Imperial be better.
But in reality you need get hit to activate it , so Imperial be much better even in ultimate.
Including bar swap and other tanks tasks, i think it will not even be difference on any tanks. Not only nord, imperial and etc.
And if you are Trifectas tank we can just take situations where it can work, and i think we will se that there are no such situations.
Nord will get warhorns out about 1 second faster than imperial, on average.
Ignoring decisive trait because of claimed inconsistency and also because it would give the edge to the nord.
Imperial maths:
Warhorn cost: 235
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/ sec both heroism = 5.66/second
235/5.66= ~41.5 seconds
Nord maths:
Warhorn cost: 250
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/sec both heroisms + 0.5/second racial = 6.16/sec
250/6.16= ~40.6 seconds
This is worst case scenario for nord, because if both races are using the decisive trait then birds will be even faster because they receive another method of generating ultimate, giving the trait even more chances to proc. In real world situations, the gap between nord and imperial ultigen is even larger, with Nords beating out imperials by at least a single second on their warhorns.
Well, this just shows that the balance pass on tanking races have been succesful. Imperial got buffed, Nord nerfed, now they are +- on equal footing. Nord is better for sustain classes such as DK or Warden, Imperial for others. Those that struggle brutally with sustain while tanking, Argonian is still good but such problems aren't caused by being Nord/Imperial, if you know what I mean.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 2, 2021 8:36AM1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭With such logick do you close anything in this game ?
I am not trolling, but i want to just check difference in real and perfect conditions.
To understand do it work in real world and just change my opinion.Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 8:41AM0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With such logick do you close anything in this game ?
I am not trolling, but i want to just check difference in real and perfect conditions.
To understand do it work in real world and just change my opinion.
This is an MMO not some single player. Balance (although, we hardly can call this a balanced MMO) is much more important than lore. Look at others MMOs out there, most of them struggled with balance while trying not to go away from lore too much and ended up just giving up on the lore all together, realising that balance is much more important.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭It is MMO, and I am bad in Lore, so I do not even care. Even so I see difference with logick in game and lore. Just OK. Lets just say it is just magick world.
But it was even not close what I am asking about in the first place !
So I just take it as a not official NO.
There are a lot of thingth, that theory do not include, thats why theory is always far from real life.
People who play roles, builds know that differences.
It is like if you need a child and woman can give him a birth in a year, it is not work like : that it is possible to make with 12people in a month.
The same for perfect conditions here.
Exp people just see it.
Even if theory say different, they know some hints why it will or will not work.
So ok.
Just change race again for one more updait
And then change it again.
It is better than just speak about it in theory. It just will not work in the end, i hope only that race passives will stay unchanged more than 1-2 years to not change it again.
0 -
JohnOfMarkarth✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
It really depends what is the content you play. If it's only random normal each day with an occasional vet DLC dungeon run, than Nord isn't that good. But when it comes to vet trials, trial speedruns and ultimately Tri-fectas, Nords are the best for tanking.Olupajmibanan wrote: »@AyaDark
I believe Nord ultigen is still stronger than Imperial 6% ulticost reduction. It interacts with Decisive trait (which is the go-to trait on one-handers for tanks) and allows the tank to prepare horn +-3 seconds faster (not counting decisive procs) than Imperial. And in serious end-game content, the best tanking race = the one that can boost group dps the most.
Also Nord resistances are helpful to reach resistance cap and allows them to easily wear group dps boosting monster sets such as new Encratis Behemoth.
Ok, but even so, Imperial will get ultimate faster in such condition, so NORD is not again even a choise.
3 ult per second , minor, major heroism , and 6% less ultimate cost.
So as example War Horn buff with cost:
250 ultimate cost 15 ultimate less.
And nord get it on 30 seconds +
250/(2.66 from both heroism + 3 base ult gen)
44 seconds to get or + 0.621 per second ult gaine more with Decisive, so 39 seconds.
Som ideal conditions only first 2 war horns will be a little faster on Nord, and then Imperial be better.
But in reality you need get hit to activate it , so Imperial be much better even in ultimate.
Including bar swap and other tanks tasks, i think it will not even be difference on any tanks. Not only nord, imperial and etc.
And if you are Trifectas tank we can just take situations where it can work, and i think we will se that there are no such situations.
Nord will get warhorns out about 1 second faster than imperial, on average.
Ignoring decisive trait because of claimed inconsistency and also because it would give the edge to the nord.
Imperial maths:
Warhorn cost: 235
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/ sec both heroism = 5.66/second
235/5.66= ~41.5 seconds
Nord maths:
Warhorn cost: 250
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/sec both heroisms + 0.5/second racial = 6.16/sec
250/6.16= ~40.6 seconds
This is worst case scenario for nord, because if both races are using the decisive trait then birds will be even faster because they receive another method of generating ultimate, giving the trait even more chances to proc. In real world situations, the gap between nord and imperial ultigen is even larger, with Nords beating out imperials by at least a single second on their warhorns.
Well, this just shows that the balance pass on tanking races have been succesful. Imperial got buffed, Nord nerfed, now they are +- on equal footing. Nord is better for sustain classes such as DK or Warden, Imperial for others. Those that struggle brutally with sustain while tanking, Argonian is still good but such problems aren't caused by being Nord/Imperial, if you know what I mean.
Yes yes... but... Imperial is still just as good in any other role other than tanking. While Nord is... not. So what you are saying is... they buffed imperials and nerfed nords to be on same level of tanking... but didnt buff nord offense to be imperial equal elsewhere.
And do NOT... toss me the nord ultigen as a positive... on a NONtank. It works... when you get hit. When YOU. get HIT. A non-tank in pve tries to... you know AVOID that.
I can't do this anymore. Every small ... petit change that went against any semblance of sense has snowballed into an avalanche of (Penn & Teller:) Bulls...!
Gods, bless me with patience.2 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
I main a night blade tank.
But that's besides the point, it is common knowledge that tanks try to maximize the damage output of the rest of the group. That's why the meta for tank gear is claw of yolnakrin and roar of alkosh, and not sustain sets like eternal vigor and willows path.
Aggressive warhorn is the go to ultimate for all tanks to use because of the critical damage it grants to your group, unless you are a necro tank in which you want to maximize major vulnerability uptime.
If you aren't aware of these facts, I am highly skeptical of your experience in tanking end game group content.
For me as example yolnokrin gives nothing.
And galenve gives me realy good damage output like 10k + to atro.
Again this old META of 2016 year that even do not already work storys ?0 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You're looking at Warhorn purely from the Warhorn perspective and not from the Major Force perspective which, in reality, is what most end game groups want. The faster you can generate ultimate, the better -- assuming the situation calls for it; some situations call for burst damage in phases, in which you can be sitting on ultimates for quite some time. Major Force lasts for 10 seconds assuming you don't have Jorvuld's Guidance extending the duration, not 30+ seconds.To get it you need 39 seconds on any tank, or 37 on nord/imperial to start with.
Just one minor gripe about my tank Colossus getting butchered, but as of the decrease to 10% on Major Vulnerability, Warhorn now outperforms Colossus on a support roles unless you simply don't have other necros in the group. In four person content, you're still better off using Warhorn in general.Aggressive warhorn is the go to ultimate for all tanks to use because of the critical damage it grants to your group, unless you are a necro tank in which you want to maximize major vulnerability uptime.@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
I main a night blade tank.
But that's besides the point, it is common knowledge that tanks try to maximize the damage output of the rest of the group. That's why the meta for tank gear is claw of yolnakrin and roar of alkosh, and not sustain sets like eternal vigor and willows path.
Aggressive warhorn is the go to ultimate for all tanks to use because of the critical damage it grants to your group, unless you are a necro tank in which you want to maximize major vulnerability uptime.
If you aren't aware of these facts, I am highly skeptical of your experience in tanking end game group content.
For me as example yolnokrin gives nothing.
And galenve gives me realy good damage output like 10k + to atro.
Again this old META of 2016 year that even do not already work storys ?
This statement to me outlines your lack of experience in end game group content.
Yolnahkrin isn't about boosting your own damage, it's about boosting the damage of your group members. As a tank, your job is not to be doing damage yourself. You would be hard pressed to even hit 30k dps while also holding proper agro and playing the mechanics correctly.
Your job is to take the damage and sustain it, and once those are accomplished, you are better off buffing your group members so that they can do more damage and burn the enemies faster, rather than boosting your own.
Yolnahkrin may not boost your personal damage much as a tank, but the bonus it provides to your other 11 group members and the way it scales on a DPS role's setup is significant and all competitive endgame trial runs will require that minor courage be given to every group member.
Yolnahkrin continues to be meta, it's just clear that you are not familiar with the organized trial runs of competitive end game content.Edited by twing1_ on February 2, 2021 9:56AM1 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That's like saying Z'en doesn't give anything. Every set that adds a small percentage adds up. Just because it doesn't boost the tank's damage by a meaningful amount doesn't mean it's not boosting the group DPS. That's your job. Whatever other DPS you can get out of it is a bonus. Yolnahkriin is approximately a 3-5% DPS increase for everyone in the group. Galenwe isn't needed if you have decent uptime on Empowering Grasp as a necromancer. That's like using Warrior-Poet on a Warden.For me as example yolnokrin gives nothing.
And galenve gives me realy good damage output like 10k + to atro.
Again this old META of 2016 year that even do not already work storys ?Edited by Troodon80 on February 2, 2021 10:00AM@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
Ultimate generation is BiS for tanks...
Any pro tank can sustain just fine, without the aid of racial passives.
The ulti generation a nord provides boosts the overall damage output of the group by helping keep those warhorns up.
While I'll agree that resource sustain is important for newbie tanks to help them learn the role, once sustaining becomes second nature (and very easy, as any end game tank can tell you), then it all comes down to maximizing the groups damage output.
Nords are the only race that are given a tool to help fulfill this duty within their racial skills, and that is in the form of ultimate generation. This is what makes them BiS and why the majority of end game tanks are Nords, and will still continue to be Nords.
If you need help sustaining your tanks, then roll one of the beginner tank races. But to min/max and stay competitive in end game content, nord is your best bet.
I am sorry, but:
Are you pro tank with exp in closing 3 in 1 as example to say such thingth ?
Do you play tank ?
I did play tank it was my main before.
So from my point of view post you write looks strange.
Just need to understand your tank expirience, to may be ask more detailed questions than.
Of how this can be compared and where as example.
It really depends what is the content you play. If it's only random normal each day with an occasional vet DLC dungeon run, than Nord isn't that good. But when it comes to vet trials, trial speedruns and ultimately Tri-fectas, Nords are the best for tanking.Olupajmibanan wrote: »@AyaDark
I believe Nord ultigen is still stronger than Imperial 6% ulticost reduction. It interacts with Decisive trait (which is the go-to trait on one-handers for tanks) and allows the tank to prepare horn +-3 seconds faster (not counting decisive procs) than Imperial. And in serious end-game content, the best tanking race = the one that can boost group dps the most.
Also Nord resistances are helpful to reach resistance cap and allows them to easily wear group dps boosting monster sets such as new Encratis Behemoth.
Ok, but even so, Imperial will get ultimate faster in such condition, so NORD is not again even a choise.
3 ult per second , minor, major heroism , and 6% less ultimate cost.
So as example War Horn buff with cost:
250 ultimate cost 15 ultimate less.
And nord get it on 30 seconds +
250/(2.66 from both heroism + 3 base ult gen)
44 seconds to get or + 0.621 per second ult gaine more with Decisive, so 39 seconds.
Som ideal conditions only first 2 war horns will be a little faster on Nord, and then Imperial be better.
But in reality you need get hit to activate it , so Imperial be much better even in ultimate.
Including bar swap and other tanks tasks, i think it will not even be difference on any tanks. Not only nord, imperial and etc.
And if you are Trifectas tank we can just take situations where it can work, and i think we will se that there are no such situations.
Nord will get warhorns out about 1 second faster than imperial, on average.
Ignoring decisive trait because of claimed inconsistency and also because it would give the edge to the nord.
Imperial maths:
Warhorn cost: 235
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/ sec both heroism = 5.66/second
235/5.66= ~41.5 seconds
Nord maths:
Warhorn cost: 250
Ultigen: 3/sec base + 2.66/sec both heroisms + 0.5/second racial = 6.16/sec
250/6.16= ~40.6 seconds
This is worst case scenario for nord, because if both races are using the decisive trait then birds will be even faster because they receive another method of generating ultimate, giving the trait even more chances to proc. In real world situations, the gap between nord and imperial ultigen is even larger, with Nords beating out imperials by at least a single second on their warhorns.
Well, this just shows that the balance pass on tanking races have been succesful. Imperial got buffed, Nord nerfed, now they are +- on equal footing. Nord is better for sustain classes such as DK or Warden, Imperial for others. Those that struggle brutally with sustain while tanking, Argonian is still good but such problems aren't caused by being Nord/Imperial, if you know what I mean.
Yes yes... but... Imperial is still just as good in any other role other than tanking. While Nord is... not. So what you are saying is... they buffed imperials and nerfed nords to be on same level of tanking... but didnt buff nord offense to be imperial equal elsewhere.
And do NOT... toss me the nord ultigen as a positive... on a NONtank. It works... when you get hit. When YOU. get HIT. A non-tank in pve tries to... you know AVOID that.
You have already 2 good stam DD races and another 4 that we can call suitable. No need to bring other. I'd say they should buff Argonian to be on the same tanking level as Imperial/Nord. Because there is a lot of choice involved when picking DD race, but no so much in tanking race.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 2, 2021 10:05AM0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭
You're looking at Warhorn purely from the Warhorn perspective and not from the Major Force perspective which, in reality, is what most end game groups want. The faster you can generate ultimate, the better -- assuming the situation calls for it; some situations call for burst damage in phases, in which you can be sitting on ultimates for quite some time. Major Force lasts for 10 seconds assuming you don't have Jorvuld's Guidance extending the duration, not 30+ seconds.To get it you need 39 seconds on any tank, or 37 on nord/imperial to start with.
Just one minor gripe about my tank Colossus getting butchered, but as of the decrease to 10% on Major Vulnerability, Warhorn now outperforms Colossus on a support roles unless you simply don't have other necros in the group. In four person content, you're still better off using Warhorn in general.Aggressive warhorn is the go to ultimate for all tanks to use because of the critical damage it grants to your group, unless you are a necro tank in which you want to maximize major vulnerability uptime.
If ultimate is so good and you already put tanks in set to gain it, why not to take new set that gives ultimate to you and other party members ?
More ultimate, more DPS ?
Jorvuld's Guidance gives 40% buff longer ?
Ok then 2 tanks - 2 gorns and - 2 sets ?
37 seconds per gain on nord.
28 seconds up time.
Any tank or healer + set + ultimate on potion, no problems with War horns or colosus right ?
28 seconds to get - 170 ultimate and 44*2 from sets.
And 2 more people will get 88 ultimate per 30 seconds from it.
Why not is this better, becouse of LA meta who needs 3 sets just to stay sustained ?
With 3 more sets i will do the same 100, like LA do, but all my DPS is AOE and i am 100% full sustain and better survivuability.
So you calculate changes based on META of 2016, excluding all new builds and sets, how it can be called meta?
And how race passives can be calculated on base of 2016 year set ups if now it is 2021 ?0 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭You really do lack the understanding of how to balance things like Warhorn with sets. 100% Major Force uptime is good, but it's unrealistic and not really feasible or achievable. That's why it's better if you combine, let's say, ~65% Major Force with constants like Minor and Major Courage, Minor Berserk, Z'en, Martial Knowledge, etc. It's not about putting the tank in purely ultimate generating sets like Hide of the Werewolf and Arkasis or using Jorvuld's Guidance, because then you lack other DPS increasing sets. You trade off two other sets for a single buff, the two don't weigh the same. That's why you have four supports typically on Horn (or 1-2 in 4-person content). It's not about having it 100% of the time, it's about having it when you need it. Races like Nord and Imperial are better at this, and Nord is marginally better than Imperial.
But even if we were to go the route of full ultimate generation by utilising sets: Nord is still better.Edited by Troodon80 on February 2, 2021 10:37AM@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭
That's like saying Z'en doesn't give anything. Every set that adds a small percentage adds up. Just because it doesn't boost the tank's damage by a meaningful amount doesn't mean it's not boosting the group DPS. That's your job. Whatever other DPS you can get out of it is a bonus. Yolnahkriin is approximately a 3-5% DPS increase for everyone in the group. Galenwe isn't needed if you have decent uptime on Empowering Grasp as a necromancer. That's like using Warrior-Poet on a Warden.For me as example yolnokrin gives nothing.
And galenve gives me realy good damage output like 10k + to atro.
Again this old META of 2016 year that even do not already work storys ?
Yolnokrin gives you 129 spd/wpd current live patch.
If DD have 40 k mana and 1300 weapon + 900 glyph and jevelery enchant, 2200.
If no other SPD.
So with buf+30% spd, 4000+2860 vs 4000+2860+167, so ADD less than 0,024 even excluding damage glyph and monster helmet.
So may be 2% or less in real condition.
Not even close to 3-5%
For next patch may be, but there are much better sets to look at.
Zen gives 5% fixed if good uptime.
2,5% or 5% is 2 times difference.Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 10:42AM0 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Have you read the tooltip recently? It's currently 215.Yolnokrin gives you 129 spd/wpd current live patch.
@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭
That's like saying Z'en doesn't give anything. Every set that adds a small percentage adds up. Just because it doesn't boost the tank's damage by a meaningful amount doesn't mean it's not boosting the group DPS. That's your job. Whatever other DPS you can get out of it is a bonus. Yolnahkriin is approximately a 3-5% DPS increase for everyone in the group. Galenwe isn't needed if you have decent uptime on Empowering Grasp as a necromancer. That's like using Warrior-Poet on a Warden.For me as example yolnokrin gives nothing.
And galenve gives me realy good damage output like 10k + to atro.
Again this old META of 2016 year that even do not already work storys ?
Yolnokrin gives you 129 spd/wpd current live patch.
This further outlines how far out of touch you are with the sets and meta of the game.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭
That's like saying Z'en doesn't give anything. Every set that adds a small percentage adds up. Just because it doesn't boost the tank's damage by a meaningful amount doesn't mean it's not boosting the group DPS. That's your job. Whatever other DPS you can get out of it is a bonus. Yolnahkriin is approximately a 3-5% DPS increase for everyone in the group. Galenwe isn't needed if you have decent uptime on Empowering Grasp as a necromancer. That's like using Warrior-Poet on a Warden.For me as example yolnokrin gives nothing.
And galenve gives me realy good damage output like 10k + to atro.
Again this old META of 2016 year that even do not already work storys ?
Yolnokrin gives you 129 spd/wpd current live patch.
This further outlines how far out of touch you are with the sets and meta of the game.
Lol.
Ok yes i forgot, it was changed in 6.2.5 patch. Minor corage changes.
But even so, 4% add.
You need 2-3 more sets to sustain you and it do not change.
It just limites you in sets that you can put on tanks even more.
And you put it on tanks even when it gave 2%, it is not changed to much.
It was a joke - when your opponents wins and makes grammer mistake like this :
https://pikabu.ru/story/kogda_u_tebya_konchilis_argumentyi_v_spore_no_tvoy_opponent_dopustil_gramaticheskuyu_oshibku_6392079
So it is very funny that you only react on this so fastly.
I do not think that it change anything with nords or next possible race changes. Just will see it soon if this go live.
And lets i just say that i confirm lose because of minor courage changes 😛 , but in reality it does not matter.
So trully it is just to lazy to write thingth, that we just all will se, if such changes go live. And i hope that they will not.Edited by AyaDark on February 2, 2021 11:28AM0 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »The amount of comments saying Nords are one of the worst stamina races dps wise is outstanding. Do we really need 10 races to be good at dps? They're not meant for that clearly if you see their passives as a whole it shows they're meant for utility/defensive builds.
They're in a pretty good place, just bump the 2600 to 2964 so it's on par with 2 pieces of armor/penetration from sets.
So other races have values like 5 armor ser and nord have like 2 , it is much less than others. We want have the same good bonus, like others do. That can be compared to 5 armor set bonus.
And not just random stats, but good stats, if nord can be good DD, than stats for tanking. Or make it gebrid, like DE, to be good stam mana dd and not best in tanking.
Now it is not the best option in all aspects, and worst DD
Prior to the nerf nord had the most item set bonuses built into their racial skills.
1000 health = ~.83x 1206 health
1500 Stam = ~1.37x 1096 stam
3948 resistance = ~2.66x 1487 resistances
Total = 4.86x item set bonuses.
And that's not even including their ultimate generation.
Nords needed a tune down, they were far above the other races
Ok then:
Cutpurse
Increases your experience gain with the Medium Armor skill line by 15%. Increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robustness III
Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 85.
from 3%.
Khajiit
Feline Ambush: Increased the Critical Damage and Healing Done from this passive to 12%, up from 10%.
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina granted from this passive to 915, up from 825.
Set gives:
129 Stamina /mana/health Recovery
As an example of 5p bonus:
(5 items) Increases your Critical Damage done by 6%. Increases your Critical Damage done by an additional 12% when attacking from Sneak or Invisibility.
So you get as 5 item bonus + critical healing all the time.
Kajiit have:
0.775 +0.659+0.659 > 2
0.759+0.835+0.835 > 2,4
4.4 + 5 items like set bonus.
Againstcurrent nord that you calculate with all his:
4.86 + little ult generate bonus.
It can not be even compared to old nord, now nords value us even less !!!
Now all nord have is like 4.2 + ultimate generate bonus that can not be even compared to 1/2 5 items set bonus.
And kajit have 4.4 + full 5> item set bonus.
It is to small for nords to have.
Hybrid stats in this game have always been calculated as lesser than single star bonuses. This can be evidenced by the difference in health, stamina, and Magicka glyph values vs prismatic glyphs values.
Health glyph = 954
Stam glyph = 868
Magicka glyph = 868
Prismatic glyph = 434 Magicka, 434 stamina, and 477 health
Prismatic glyphs grant exactly 1.5x as many resources as single Stat glyphs, and this is consistent with other hybrid star bonuses available as well, such as the stone keeper 1 pc item set bonus, which adds 548 Magicka, 548 stamina, and 603 health, vs the equivalent set bonuses of 1096 Magicka, 1096 stamina, and 1206 health. This again grants hybrid stats an extra half item set bonus in comparison to single Stat bonuses.
A similar observation can be made between tri Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry vs single Stat recovery glyphs for jewelry.
Assuming the values in other parts of the game are meant to stay consistent through racial skills, it makes sense for hybrid races to be slotted a higher value of set bonuses, and calculations should be adjusted accordingly.
A more direct comparison would be comparing nord to another non hybrid race, if you don't want to take into account the hybrid Stat differential.
OK than give NORD gebrid stats !!!
Nord is the bottom DD.
As TANK, Hybrid race have better perfomance than nord do.
Tanks need both resources MP stam and HP.
So even Khajiit outperform Nord now.
Nord have 2500 resorces, Khajiit have 915*3=2745
Ultimate gen - vs Resource restore - not easy choise, but for not DK, resource restore is better.
12% healing and crit done against 2600 resists ?
Ok we have 245 less resources on nord, 12% more self healing from crits and 245 res or 2600 def ?
Not easy choise but i would take more healing from crits.
So Hybrid is compared with only tank race who can nothing more ?
Ok lets take stamina DPS race:
Redguard.
Not top DPS, but good DPS class.
Nord vs Redguard:
2000 stamina against 1500 stam and 1000 health.
So 500 stamina to 1000 hp.
With cost like 1096 stam to 1206 HP
15% snare reduce + 8% less cost of sword and shield abilitys against NORDS ult gen,
More sustain is much better even for tank DK. On other classes it can not be even compared.
Tank with full resists do not need cold res - even can not be looked like tank passive.
And + 2000 stamina per 10 seconds is god like ability for tank to get in block.
It can not be even compared do 2600 res.
Even with old 3960 it is not easy choise, but current Redguard is better for tank, like unique way to get stamina in block !
2600 def is a joke !
No one just will play nord, becouse:
Nord are bottom DPS.
Bottom healer.
And not best option for tanks.
It is just as with imperials before.
And i do not want change race each updait or stay on dead race !
Please, if you are going to do a comparison of races by converting to set worth, please include all the passives a race has.
See
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560455/for-information-all-races-set-bonus-equivalent-worth-in-current-patch/p1?new=1
where I do this.
Set bonus wise, Nord is still one of the most highly budgeted races, at at set bonus equivalenc of 6.66.
For comparison the other races you have mentioned are - Imperial: 5.80, Redguard: ~5.28 (varies depending on how much weapon abilities are used, this values assumes a 50% use rate), Khajiit: 5.02 (excluding sneak passive).
That said, there is more going on than just the set bonus values, as I mention in that post.
A race can still be let down if its passives don't synergise well, but this isn't really the case for Nords, which have all their passives relevant for tanking, and a moderate focus for stam dps.
[edit: updated the value for nord due to a correction in the linked post]Edited by ExistingRug61 on February 2, 2021 12:17PM2 -
sgaliaSoul Shrivenserious nerf change to Nord race for tanking, no longer #1 choice....
New Top 5 List based on the Tank Club
#1 - Imperial
#2 - Redguard
#3 - Argonian
#4 - Orc
#5 - Nord
https://youtu.be/71gzo0CEz4E 4