Nord nerf 2600 from 3900??? This is not a nerf it is a destruction

wheem_ESO

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

All we need is just nord race change tickets.

Must suck always chasing a meta rather than just playing an actual character.

The thing is, it's not even chasing meta. There is nothing wrong with Nord as a tank race (nor is there anything wrong with any race). It's a case of people not actually testing on the PTS to see the differences, but merely reading the patch notes and assuming the sky is falling.

I did test on th PTS and this change is huge when you play in a light armor. Huge.

That may have more to do with light armor now taking an extra 5-7% damage from all "Martial" sources than it does the nerf to the Nord resistance passive. Considering the damage numbers that decently build Stamina characters are able to push in PvP, that 5-7% extra damage - on top of already having weak baseline resistances in light armor - is not inconsequential.

Starlight_Whisper

BattleAxe wrote: »

As a tank main who plays as nord race I understand the nerf but once we look at the new champion point system nords actually gain more armor than we lose. Also take into account everyone now has a flat 15% reduction in damage taken.

It's 12 no or where do you get 15 from?

MashmalloMan

@UntouchableHunter

Fixed for you:

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

I have a magdk Nord with Steed Mundus stone.

2600 resistance from Nord
10% movement speed + 238 health recovery (119 per second)

Let's switch to Orc with the lady
2744 resistance
12% reduce sprint cost + 10 speed + 500 healthy regen per second.
And 258 spells damage.

Nord with Steed:

• Immune to Chilled Status effect
• 4620 cold resistance (+7% mitigation)
• 2600 armor
• 1k hp
• 1.5k stamina (500 less than orc)
• 5 ultimate every 10s
• 10% movement speed (applies to everything)
• 238 health recovery (can be buffed by 50-100% so more like 178/s - 238/s, it also applies all the time instead of needing to be in combat)
  • 4% per heavy armor piece (up to 28%)
  • 5% per dragonic ability slotted (maybe 5-15%)
  • 20% minor fortitude
  • 40% major fortitude (coag or potion)

Orc with Lady:

• 2744 armor
• 1k hp
• 1k stamina
• 12% reduced sprint cost (sprint cost is dirt cheap at base already, but also reduced for light armor by 3% per piece)
• 10% sprint speed (this only applies to sprint and it's why Steed is so much more powerful)
• 1k health every 4s (pvp so 250/s not 500/s, but it only procs in combat and every 4s making it less reliable instead of a steady flow)
• 258 spell damage

So I mean, if you really think it's better go ahead, but depending on your actual playstyle they look pretty even to me.

You're trading 500 stamina, +0.5 ult gen, chilled immunity, 7% mitigation from frost damage, 10% to ALL movement speed and roughly the same hp return per second, but worse because you need to be in combat for Orc's for 258 spell damage and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Unless the 144 armor difference is really going to push you over the edge, Nord still looks very competitive in comparison as a defensive/utility pvp race. If you didn't care about the chilled immunity and frost resistance to begin with, then you're really just highlighting how over the top the original armor bonus for Nord was as that is why most of us picked them.

If you read my sig, I main a Nord stam sorc so I should be biased for them. I think the change is fair, but they should at least bump the 2600 up to the 2 set piece amount of 2974.

MashmalloMan

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

As a tank main who plays as nord race I understand the nerf but once we look at the new champion point system nords actually gain more armor than we lose. Also take into account everyone now has a flat 15% reduction in damage taken.

It's 12 no or where do you get 15 from?

You get 15% for being level 50 baked in, as you do now for 1k weapon/spell damage, 4k stamina/magicka and 7.25k hp. This is to compensate for the new CP systems reduced power while also lowering the gap between fresh level 50 players and max cp players, at least thats the purpose.

ExistingRug61

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@UntouchableHunter

Fixed for you:

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

I have a magdk Nord with Steed Mundus stone.

2600 resistance from Nord
10% movement speed + 238 health recovery (119 per second)

Let's switch to Orc with the lady
2744 resistance
12% reduce sprint cost + 10 speed + 500 healthy regen per second.
And 258 spells damage.

Nord with Steed:

• Immune to Chilled Status effect
• 4620 cold resistance (+7% mitigation)
• 2600 armor
• 1k hp
• 1.5k stamina (500 less than orc)
• 5 ultimate every 10s
• 10% movement speed (applies to everything)
• 238 health recovery (can be buffed by 50-100% so more like 178/s - 238/s, it also applies all the time instead of needing to be in combat)
  • 4% per heavy armor piece (up to 28%)
  • 5% per dragonic ability slotted (maybe 5-15%)
  • 20% minor fortitude
  • 40% major fortitude (coag or potion)

Orc with Lady:

• 2744 armor
• 1k hp
• 1k stamina
• 12% reduced sprint cost (sprint cost is dirt cheap at base already, but also reduced for light armor by 3% per piece)
• 10% sprint speed (this only applies to sprint and it's why Steed is so much more powerful)
• 1k health every 4s (pvp so 250/s not 500/s, but it only procs in combat and every 4s making it less reliable instead of a steady flow)
• 258 spell damage

So I mean, if you really think it's better go ahead, but depending on your actual playstyle they look pretty even to me.

You're trading 500 stamina, +0.5 ult gen, chilled immunity, 7% mitigation from frost damage, 10% to ALL movement speed and roughly the same hp return per second, but worse because you need to be in combat for Orc's for 258 spell damage and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Unless the 144 armor difference is really going to push you over the edge, Nord still looks very competitive in comparison as a defensive/utility pvp race. If you didn't care about the chilled immunity and frost resistance to begin with, then you're really just highlighting how over the top the original armor bonus for Nord was as that is why most of us picked them.

If you read my sig, I main a Nord stam sorc so I should be biased for them. I think the change is fair, but they should at least bump the 2600 up to the 2 set piece amount of 2974.

@MashmalloMan FYI this patch the elemental resistance racials no longer provide immunity to the status effects, so Nord is no longer immune to chilled.

Nevertheless this doesn’t really change the outcome - I actually did the same comparison in response a few replies ago (although I accidentally left out the frost resist, but even without that I thought Nord was still competitive)

MashmalloMan

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@UntouchableHunter

Fixed for you:

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

I have a magdk Nord with Steed Mundus stone.

2600 resistance from Nord
10% movement speed + 238 health recovery (119 per second)

Let's switch to Orc with the lady
2744 resistance
12% reduce sprint cost + 10 speed + 500 healthy regen per second.
And 258 spells damage.

Nord with Steed:

• Immune to Chilled Status effect
• 4620 cold resistance (+7% mitigation)
• 2600 armor
• 1k hp
• 1.5k stamina (500 less than orc)
• 5 ultimate every 10s
• 10% movement speed (applies to everything)
• 238 health recovery (can be buffed by 50-100% so more like 178/s - 238/s, it also applies all the time instead of needing to be in combat)
  • 4% per heavy armor piece (up to 28%)
  • 5% per dragonic ability slotted (maybe 5-15%)
  • 20% minor fortitude
  • 40% major fortitude (coag or potion)

Orc with Lady:

• 2744 armor
• 1k hp
• 1k stamina
• 12% reduced sprint cost (sprint cost is dirt cheap at base already, but also reduced for light armor by 3% per piece)
• 10% sprint speed (this only applies to sprint and it's why Steed is so much more powerful)
• 1k health every 4s (pvp so 250/s not 500/s, but it only procs in combat and every 4s making it less reliable instead of a steady flow)
• 258 spell damage

So I mean, if you really think it's better go ahead, but depending on your actual playstyle they look pretty even to me.

You're trading 500 stamina, +0.5 ult gen, chilled immunity, 7% mitigation from frost damage, 10% to ALL movement speed and roughly the same hp return per second, but worse because you need to be in combat for Orc's for 258 spell damage and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Unless the 144 armor difference is really going to push you over the edge, Nord still looks very competitive in comparison as a defensive/utility pvp race. If you didn't care about the chilled immunity and frost resistance to begin with, then you're really just highlighting how over the top the original armor bonus for Nord was as that is why most of us picked them.

If you read my sig, I main a Nord stam sorc so I should be biased for them. I think the change is fair, but they should at least bump the 2600 up to the 2 set piece amount of 2974.

@MashmalloMan FYI this patch the elemental resistance racials no longer provide immunity to the status effects, so Nord is no longer immune to chilled.

Nevertheless this doesn’t really change the outcome - I actually did the same comparison in response a few replies ago (although I accidentally left out the frost resist, but even without that I thought Nord was still competitive)

I'll be posting about that actually because there appears to be a bug. I'm aware of what they wrote, but with ZOS you can take what they say in different ways.

Eg. on live, any resistance added to a specific element makes you immune to that element. (From my understanding) It makes sense to remove that.

However, if you go on pts, this is what you'll find. Nord and Dark Elf still say immune, Wood Elf and Argonian do not:



It would make sense for the races to have passives that specifically stated they were immune as an exception, instead of just providing immunity for any amount of resistance added if what I stated above is actually still true.

And oh okay lol, didn't see that one. I'm sticking with Nord too I think.

ExistingRug61

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@UntouchableHunter

Fixed for you:

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

I have a magdk Nord with Steed Mundus stone.

2600 resistance from Nord
10% movement speed + 238 health recovery (119 per second)

Let's switch to Orc with the lady
2744 resistance
12% reduce sprint cost + 10 speed + 500 healthy regen per second.
And 258 spells damage.

Nord with Steed:

• Immune to Chilled Status effect
• 4620 cold resistance (+7% mitigation)
• 2600 armor
• 1k hp
• 1.5k stamina (500 less than orc)
• 5 ultimate every 10s
• 10% movement speed (applies to everything)
• 238 health recovery (can be buffed by 50-100% so more like 178/s - 238/s, it also applies all the time instead of needing to be in combat)
  • 4% per heavy armor piece (up to 28%)
  • 5% per dragonic ability slotted (maybe 5-15%)
  • 20% minor fortitude
  • 40% major fortitude (coag or potion)

Orc with Lady:

• 2744 armor
• 1k hp
• 1k stamina
• 12% reduced sprint cost (sprint cost is dirt cheap at base already, but also reduced for light armor by 3% per piece)
• 10% sprint speed (this only applies to sprint and it's why Steed is so much more powerful)
• 1k health every 4s (pvp so 250/s not 500/s, but it only procs in combat and every 4s making it less reliable instead of a steady flow)
• 258 spell damage

So I mean, if you really think it's better go ahead, but depending on your actual playstyle they look pretty even to me.

You're trading 500 stamina, +0.5 ult gen, chilled immunity, 7% mitigation from frost damage, 10% to ALL movement speed and roughly the same hp return per second, but worse because you need to be in combat for Orc's for 258 spell damage and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Unless the 144 armor difference is really going to push you over the edge, Nord still looks very competitive in comparison as a defensive/utility pvp race. If you didn't care about the chilled immunity and frost resistance to begin with, then you're really just highlighting how over the top the original armor bonus for Nord was as that is why most of us picked them.

If you read my sig, I main a Nord stam sorc so I should be biased for them. I think the change is fair, but they should at least bump the 2600 up to the 2 set piece amount of 2974.

@MashmalloMan FYI this patch the elemental resistance racials no longer provide immunity to the status effects, so Nord is no longer immune to chilled.

Nevertheless this doesn’t really change the outcome - I actually did the same comparison in response a few replies ago (although I accidentally left out the frost resist, but even without that I thought Nord was still competitive)

I'll be posting about that actually because there appears to be a bug. I'm aware of what they wrote, but with ZOS you can take what they say in different ways.

Eg. on live, any resistance added to a specific element makes you immune to that element. (From my understanding) It makes sense to remove that.

However, if you go on pts, this is what you'll find. Nord and Dark Elf still say immune, Wood Elf and Argonian do not:



It would make sense for the races to have passives that specifically stated they were immune as an exception, instead of just providing immunity for any amount of resistance added if what I stated above is actually still true.

And oh okay lol, didn't see that one. I'm sticking with Nord too I think.

Yeah that seems like a bug as they explicitly stated that nord is no longer immune to chilled in the patch notes (same for dark elf and burning). In the case of bosmer and argonian it appears getting the other of poison/disease resistance was what was given to replace immunity, it would make sense that nord and dark elf lose theirs as well given their values got doubled.

StarOfElyon

Unkillable Nord stamdens out here reminding me... Yeah. This nerf is needed.

ecru

I just don't see the point of this change. If you wanted better sustain, you chose a different race.

Ylikollikas

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Unkillable Nord stamdens out here reminding me... Yeah. This nerf is needed.

Unkillable stamdens won't be gone because if this nerf. Stamden is just overpowered as a class and this patch makes heavy armor turtling easier than every before. Not mention they are just going to use race change to token to go newly buffed Imperial (unlimited sustain = unkillable) or orc (free heals = unkillable).

Drygon

Couldn't care less if they half the nord armor bonus when it comes to my tank, but for my other non-meta builds this is a BIG Nerf.

Nord needs some other small racial to make them more viable (not best in slot) for other roles too.

For example give them some flat Crit to compensate for their armor loss, like a bonus of 657 Spell/Weapon Critical.

This will help them a tiny bit in other roles too and it would also play well with their Strong warrior persona.

TwinLamps

Stahlor wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

...and 3 good looking nord girls alts.

Good looking Nord girls in Eso? Are you sure you have Nords?

Tastes may vary

Yamenstein

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Why ZOS???

I will not buy a race token.
If you give us a token I could choose another race.
But forget make some money with token race change.

I think 3500 or 3200 could acceptable.
But 2600 in race that have only the resistance and nothing wells is to much.

Need to calm down and look at the numbers more. If you look at just the resistance decrease standalone then 1) yes it's a nerf and 2) your doing it wrong because other things are changing took make this alignment

Merllow

Сlasses that receive armor received it in the amount of 2300 and then only in one direction (magic protection). But the Nords just had almost 4000 armor in both directions, as well as other interesting bonuses, such as a quick gain of ultimate points, increased health and stamina. It was not a balanced class, everyone knew that and that is why there are so many Nords. Even at 2600 armor this class is the best choice for stamina in PVP. Аnd in PVE, everyone got + 15% to damage reduction, while the loss of a nord in 1400 is equal to 2%. There is no need to dramatize and demand to return the broken balance.

katorga

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Unkillable Nord stamdens out here reminding me... Yeah. This nerf is needed.

Nord is not why they are unkillable. Race doesn't matter in that case.

UntouchableHunter

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@UntouchableHunter

Fixed for you:

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

I have a magdk Nord with Steed Mundus stone.

2600 resistance from Nord
10% movement speed + 238 health recovery (119 per second)

Let's switch to Orc with the lady
2744 resistance
12% reduce sprint cost + 10 speed + 500 healthy regen per second.
And 258 spells damage.

Nord with Steed:

• Immune to Chilled Status effect
• 4620 cold resistance (+7% mitigation)
• 2600 armor
• 1k hp
• 1.5k stamina (500 less than orc)
• 5 ultimate every 10s
• 10% movement speed (applies to everything)
• 238 health recovery (can be buffed by 50-100% so more like 178/s - 238/s, it also applies all the time instead of needing to be in combat)
  • 4% per heavy armor piece (up to 28%)
  • 5% per dragonic ability slotted (maybe 5-15%)
  • 20% minor fortitude
  • 40% major fortitude (coag or potion)

Orc with Lady:

• 2744 armor
• 1k hp
• 1k stamina
• 12% reduced sprint cost (sprint cost is dirt cheap at base already, but also reduced for light armor by 3% per piece)
• 10% sprint speed (this only applies to sprint and it's why Steed is so much more powerful)
• 1k health every 4s (pvp so 250/s not 500/s, but it only procs in combat and every 4s making it less reliable instead of a steady flow)
• 258 spell damage

So I mean, if you really think it's better go ahead, but depending on your actual playstyle they look pretty even to me.

You're trading 500 stamina, +0.5 ult gen, chilled immunity, 7% mitigation from frost damage, 10% to ALL movement speed and roughly the same hp return per second, but worse because you need to be in combat for Orc's for 258 spell damage and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Unless the 144 armor difference is really going to push you over the edge, Nord still looks very competitive in comparison as a defensive/utility pvp race. If you didn't care about the chilled immunity and frost resistance to begin with, then you're really just highlighting how over the top the original armor bonus for Nord was as that is why most of us picked them.

If you read my sig, I main a Nord stam sorc so I should be biased for them. I think the change is fair, but they should at least bump the 2600 up to the 2 set piece amount of 2974.

We don't fight against frost classes in pvp. Maybe flame, but most of them are poison. The frost bonus doesn't exist for me.

There is another post in the forum give point to the classes.

Orc - 8.97
Dark Elf - 7.something
High Elf - 7.something
Nord - 6.66 (Iron Madden thing 😁)

And about the health recovery all the time and the Orc healling only in battle, we need this in battle so it is not a downside. I don't care about my health recovery outside battles

But anyway I do think the just Wana move people from Nord with the new CP system to sell race token because the other race are really better now and with the new CP and the lady Mundus they we be fair away better then Nord.

crazywolfpusher

Being nord (and dark elf) has something to do with being the best race for pvp and EP being the strongest alliance in cyro and IC while AD the weakest alongside with khajit and bosmers and maybe high elves? or is just coincidence

ExistingRug61

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@UntouchableHunter

Fixed for you:

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

I have a magdk Nord with Steed Mundus stone.

2600 resistance from Nord
10% movement speed + 238 health recovery (119 per second)

Let's switch to Orc with the lady
2744 resistance
12% reduce sprint cost + 10 speed + 500 healthy regen per second.
And 258 spells damage.

Nord with Steed:

• Immune to Chilled Status effect
• 4620 cold resistance (+7% mitigation)
• 2600 armor
• 1k hp
• 1.5k stamina (500 less than orc)
• 5 ultimate every 10s
• 10% movement speed (applies to everything)
• 238 health recovery (can be buffed by 50-100% so more like 178/s - 238/s, it also applies all the time instead of needing to be in combat)
  • 4% per heavy armor piece (up to 28%)
  • 5% per dragonic ability slotted (maybe 5-15%)
  • 20% minor fortitude
  • 40% major fortitude (coag or potion)

Orc with Lady:

• 2744 armor
• 1k hp
• 1k stamina
• 12% reduced sprint cost (sprint cost is dirt cheap at base already, but also reduced for light armor by 3% per piece)
• 10% sprint speed (this only applies to sprint and it's why Steed is so much more powerful)
• 1k health every 4s (pvp so 250/s not 500/s, but it only procs in combat and every 4s making it less reliable instead of a steady flow)
• 258 spell damage

So I mean, if you really think it's better go ahead, but depending on your actual playstyle they look pretty even to me.

You're trading 500 stamina, +0.5 ult gen, chilled immunity, 7% mitigation from frost damage, 10% to ALL movement speed and roughly the same hp return per second, but worse because you need to be in combat for Orc's for 258 spell damage and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Unless the 144 armor difference is really going to push you over the edge, Nord still looks very competitive in comparison as a defensive/utility pvp race. If you didn't care about the chilled immunity and frost resistance to begin with, then you're really just highlighting how over the top the original armor bonus for Nord was as that is why most of us picked them.

If you read my sig, I main a Nord stam sorc so I should be biased for them. I think the change is fair, but they should at least bump the 2600 up to the 2 set piece amount of 2974.

We don't fight against frost classes in pvp. Maybe flame, but most of them are poison. The frost bonus doesn't exist for me.

There is another post in the forum give point to the classes.

Orc - 8.97
Dark Elf - 7.something
High Elf - 7.something
Nord - 6.66 (Iron Madden thing 😁)

And about the health recovery all the time and the Orc healling only in battle, we need this in battle so it is not a downside. I don't care about my health recovery outside battles

But anyway I do think the just Wana move people from Nord with the new CP system to sell race token because the other race are really better now and with the new CP and the lady Mundus they we be fair away better then Nord.

Actually high elf was 5.82.
And every other race except wood elf (6.78) is also less than nord’s 6.66. Most are in the 5-6 range.
Also the orc 8.97 has a huge *** against it because of the way the worth of the heal was calculated, which disproportionately inflated the result (the heal making up more than half Orc’s total under the initial method. An alternate equivalent of the heals worth put orc at 5.73.

Full disclosure though thos numbers were using a standard for the elemental resistances from glyphs, which was a bit unreliable, and could be considered to over value the resistances leading to races like nord having too high of a value. A second method change the elemental resistances to be worth an amount related to Armor and the proportion of incoming damage of that type. If we assume an equal distribution of damage types, this does result in a method does result in a lower value for nords at 5.3. But all the other races that have resistances also drop, leaving nord somewhere in the middle, and a similar value to most.

Anyway, to see all the (updated) numbers and the discussion that lead to the differing evaluation methods, see:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560455/for-information-all-races-set-bonus-equivalent-worth-in-current-patch/p1

thomas1970b16_ESO

CleymenZero wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Why ZOS???

I will not buy a race token.
If you give us a token I could choose another race.
But forget make some money with token race change.

I think 3500 or 3200 could acceptable.
But 2600 in race that have only the resistance and nothing wells is to much.

It's a nerf from 6.5% damage reduction to 4.3%. I wouldn't qualify that as destruction.

Are those surprise racial balance unwelcome? Perhaps, especially when adapting your builds to those changes involve real money...

Wow. That is a 33,8% nerf! Damn that is a lot.

oscarovegren

I have 5 nords. This change was good for the balance between classes. Nord was a bit overtuned

kojou

My first DK tank was a Nord when everyone was insisting that Imperials were better, then Argonians, and my tank will stay a Nord even after this change. I have tanked nearly everything in this game so far with my Nord and I will continue to tank everything after this patch with my Nord.

I personally think players make too big a deal about race changes which makes ZOS feel obligated to balance them every so often. If you wanted Nord for resistances before this patch you will want it still after.

I I am currently a bit over armor cap by a little now and I will be at or a little under after this patch. No big deal. I do agree that 2974 would be more consistent with other race bonuses though.

UntouchableHunter

kojou wrote: »

My first DK tank was a Nord when everyone was insisting that Imperials were better, then Argonians, and my tank will stay a Nord even after this change. I have tanked nearly everything in this game so far with my Nord and I will continue to tank everything after this patch with my Nord.

I personally think players make too big a deal about race changes which makes ZOS feel obligated to balance them every so often. If you wanted Nord for resistances before this patch you will want it still after.

I I am currently a bit over armor cap by a little now and I will be at or a little under after this patch. No big deal. I do agree that 2974 would be more consistent with other race bonuses though.

2974 would be fair.
2600 is too much they need to fix it.