I see absolutely no reason to give an orc spell dmg and a high elf weapon dmg
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Miloscpolski✭✭✭DecayingArtist wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »DecayingArtist wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »Don't you think that races will lose their uniqueness at such a rate? If everyone has both spd and wpd, then there will not be much uniqueness
The other 2 passive lines for each race still exist.
Just because you're hybridizing the spell and weapon damage doesn't mean you're making every race the same.
Why be for arbitrary aesthetic limitations that literally don't affect the balance of the game?
Altmer and Orc are still different enough even though they both have access to spell and weapon damage.
It's just weird, if zos concentrates orcs as staminists, so keep doing it, same with Altmer, even if Altmer focuses like a magician. But just giving spd orcs and wpd altmers is very strange. I see it being done for casuals.
But my point is if it isn't affecting balance and doesn't hurt you or your play style, why limit other people's aesthetic options?
They've already made the change, so it's not like they're using time that could have been spent elsewhere.
Just because "it's weird" to you doesn't make it a good reason to reverse the change, and as others have stated, even the lore indicates it makes sense.
Just live and let live.
Dude, if the usual discussion on the forum prevents you from living, what are you doing here?1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »For an orc, 1000 stamina will be an indicator that you will choose stamina spec for him, the same applies especially to an altmer, because giving weapon dmg to a race that has 2000 magic and only is very stupid.
No stamina isn't a indicator to play stamina, my favorite mag support race has been Nord.
Stamina is a must have on a pvp magicka character, I run 14k-18k stam on all magicka toons: block, cc break, dodge, etc...
Long overdue change.
if you ever play high-end content in pve you will find that stamina or mana is an indicator. You will receive more damage in stam class if you have stamina passive skills than magic.
Yup, but I don't play end game pve. Playing on and off since 2014 and have never stepped into a trial.
PvP.
in pvp, the loss of the main resource can partially affect the loss of the main damage, but here everything is very individual. For pvp, this is unnecessary.
Magicka is hardly on the radar of priority stats for dd, control, & support PvP.
Necessary no, but so is most of the pve fluff in this game.
Going Orc day of update.Edited by Wolfpaw on January 28, 2021 2:05AM3 -
Miloscpolski✭✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »For an orc, 1000 stamina will be an indicator that you will choose stamina spec for him, the same applies especially to an altmer, because giving weapon dmg to a race that has 2000 magic and only is very stupid.
No stamina isn't a indicator to play stamina, my favorite mag support race has been Nord.
Stamina is a must have on a pvp magicka character, I run 14k-18k stam on all magicka toons: block, cc break, dodge, etc...
Long overdue change.
if you ever play high-end content in pve you will find that stamina or mana is an indicator. You will receive more damage in stam class if you have stamina passive skills than magic.
Yup, but I don't play end game pve. Playing on and off since 2014 and have never stepped into a trial.
PvP.
in pvp, the loss of the main resource can partially affect the loss of the main damage, but here everything is very individual. For pvp, this is unnecessary.
Magicka is hardly on the radar of priority stats for dd, control, & support.
Necessary no, but so is most of the pve fluff in this game.
Going Orc day of update.
I mean the stats continue to increase your damage. As a pvp player, remember that magic sorcers are tied to the maximum pool of magic to increase the shield, which also increases their damage. Just a reminder of the pvp player pvp player1 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »For an orc, 1000 stamina will be an indicator that you will choose stamina spec for him, the same applies especially to an altmer, because giving weapon dmg to a race that has 2000 magic and only is very stupid.
I don't see harm in giving Altmer weapon damage because weapon damage alone does not make a race a stamina race suddenly. Orcs still have max stamina and passives that benefit them in melee combat over an Altmer. if an Altmer wants to make use of that weapon damage, they're going to have to build around it. They can't even just swap like the Dunmer can. Dunmer just switches weapons and skills and bam, they lose no potency. They're still the optimal hybrid race. None of this hurts Dunmer at all.Yes warrior high elfs for the win! me wants.
Altmer spellswords rise up!5 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »
So you're just going to ignore that Redgaurd can afford to stack more damage due to having better sustain and a larger stamina pool? Weapon damage isn't the end all, be all.0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »
max stat almost has no effect on damage when it comes to stam builds. Besides, its not like no high elf in history has ever used a sword. Kinda dumb narrow minded view on eso lore you have. One of the greatest mages in elderscrolls history was a nord. Also redguards sunk and entire continent using magic so are you going to tell me they can't be a mage?
This exactly everyone mad a stam class got a spell dmg passive can suck rocks hell by their logic darien should go swap to a sorcerer because all bretons are mag spec.
So in short everyone shut up and enjoy the damn game and quit finding reasons to be mad about something that you obviously aren't playing as. And let those that do play how tf they want.6 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »
So you're just going to ignore that Redgaurd can afford to stack more damage due to having better sustain and a larger stamina pool? Weapon damage isn't the end all, be all.
Sustain is dead easy to obtain especially with the 40% stam regen you can get from major endurance, an additional 20% you get from using rally from 2h and more. This argument is weak at best.9 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It’s strange to see Altmer become even more hybridized from a lore perspective (aren’t Bretons supposed to be more the spellsword type and Altmer pure casters?), but neither of these changes has any impact on game balance so I don’t care too much.
Not really many high elves in lore were soldiers and if not master swordsmen even Queen Irin is a sword user more then a mage so saying its lore breaking would be say no Nord was leader of the mages guild even though the most powerful mage in the elder scrolls lore was one or that orc shamans and mages did not exist. The truth is many greats were of races not given racial bonuses in the mmo sense are some of the best at what they do do to not having that they have to be smarter and better then the others.
Sure, there are always examples that go against the stereotype. Im just saying look at the Altmer racial passives in Morrowind and Oblivion, all Magicka based, nothing about being swordsmen, and they even received penalties to Strength, Endurance and Speed. Now we’re saying they can pick up a sword and hit harder than Redguards?
Interestingly there’s another backward aspect to these races. A Redguard that uses Destruction skills will have better Magicka sustain than an Altmer since they get 8% cost reduction and Altmer has no primary resource sustain passives. These just seem like lore red flags..Edited by WrathOfInnos on January 28, 2021 7:20AM4 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »It’s strange to see Altmer become even more hybridized from a lore perspective (aren’t Bretons supposed to be more the spellsword type and Altmer pure casters?), but neither of these changes has any impact on game balance so I don’t care too much.
Not really many high elves in lore were soldiers and if not master swordsmen even Queen Irin is a sword user more then a mage so saying its lore breaking would be say no Nord was leader of the mages guild even though the most powerful mage in the elder scrolls lore was one or that orc shamans and mages did not exist. The truth is many greats were of races not given racial bonuses in the mmo sense are some of the best at what they do do to not having that they have to be smarter and better then the others.
Sure, there are always examples that go against the stereotype. Im just saying look at the Altmer racial passives in Morrowind and Oblivion, all Magicka based, nothing about being swordsmen, and they even received penalties to Strength, Endurance and Speed. Now we’re saying they can pick up a sword and hit harder than Redguards?
Interestingly there’s another backward aspect to these races. A Redguard that uses Destruction skills will have better Magicka sustain than an Altmer since they get 8% cost reduction and Altmer has no primary resource sustain passives. These just seem like lore red flags..
If we're going strictly by the lore... Altmer should receive an enormous penalty to Magickal Damage Taken while also receiving the maximum bonuses available to Spell Damage, Magicka, and Magicka sustain. They should be, in other words, the ultimate Magicka race - but with a terrible kiss-curse.
But, of course, I agree with you that Redguards are wickedly under-powered and also run counter to established lore as both the most fragile race in Tamriel as well as being mediocre, at best, at Stamina DPS. A simple fix would be a Breton-like 8% discount on Stamina ability costs paired with 258 Weapon Damage and resistances to both Poison and Disease (which they have had in every TES game except for ESO).2 -
oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not really many high elves in lore were soldiers and if not master swordsmen even Queen Irin is a sword user more then a mage so saying its lore breaking would be say no Nord was leader of the mages guild even though the most powerful mage in the elder scrolls lore was one or that orc shamans and mages did not exist.
Who tf is Queen Irin?0 -
Foto1✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It’s strange to see Altmer become even more hybridized from a lore perspective (aren’t Bretons supposed to be more the spellsword type and Altmer pure casters?), but neither of these changes has any impact on game balance so I don’t care too much.
The Altmer have the strongest fleet in Tamriel. don't you need muscular guys on the ship to swing the oars? don't you need sword masters to defend yourself against pirates?PC/EU CP 1200+
Artaxerks stamina dk khajiit
Wayna Qhapaq magicka dk argonian
Rorekur stamina sorc orc
Maria de Medici magicka sorc breton
Cordeilla stamina warden wood elf
Quienn Gwendolen magicka warden high elf
Nefertari stamina necro khajiit
Boadicea Icenian magicka templar dark elf
Clarice de Medici healer nb breton1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It’s strange to see Altmer become even more hybridized from a lore perspective (aren’t Bretons supposed to be more the spellsword type and Altmer pure casters?), but neither of these changes has any impact on game balance so I don’t care too much.
The Altmer have the strongest fleet in Tamriel. don't you need muscular guys on the ship to swing the oars? don't you need sword masters to defend yourself against pirates?
That's what slaves are for smh.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's kind of absurd that this makes Orcs really decent healers, probably better than Argonians ...
It also goes against the damage versus sustain trade-off. If all damage races get spell and weapon damage, all sustain races should have magicka and stamina sustain, right?Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.9 -
Leogon✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I find stupid is that now an Altmer can do more physical damage than a Nord. Soon, everyone and their grandmother is going to be able to do more physical damage than a Nord.
Edited by Leogon on February 1, 2021 10:23AM6 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, this is just a misguided attempt at hybridization that destroys the flavour of the races. Unless you are an end-game min-maxer you'll choose a race for it's lore and/or look.
So most people are mainly choosing Altmer because they are said to be the most powerful mages. So why bother destroying that image by muddling the picture with physical damage boost.
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CleymenZero✭✭✭✭✭
✭Miloscpolski wrote: »For an orc, 1000 stamina will be an indicator that you will choose stamina spec for him, the same applies especially to an altmer, because giving weapon dmg to a race that has 2000 magic and only is very stupid.
It makes some sense. You see both physical damage users and magical damage users in both orcs and high elves in various cities. The extra stam and mag on one side and the other serves as an orientation. This whole thing basically says: orcs are mainly physical damage dealers but can be proficient at mag and high elves are mostly magic damage users but can also wield a sword decently.0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »Yeah, this is just a misguided attempt at hybridization that destroys the flavour of the races. Unless you are an end-game min-maxer you'll choose a race for it's lore and/or look.
So most people are mainly choosing Altmer because they are said to be the most powerful mages. So why bother destroying that image by muddling the picture with physical damage boost.
That hasn't been true for the longest time since Bretons and Dark Elves were better at everything than burning down a stationary target.
While I probably would have been happy with Altmer getting 129 weapon damage, 258 alone will not make them great martial fighters. Since I play an Almer hybrid, I know that a lot of points have to be put into stamina (making magicka the lower resource), so their spell recharge passive will sustain their magicka but not their stamina. So they will still be lacking the max stamina pool, stamina regen, movement speed and resistance that makes fighters excel in martial combat.0 -
Scardan✭✭✭✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »DecayingArtist wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »Don't you think that races will lose their uniqueness at such a rate? If everyone has both spd and wpd, then there will not be much uniqueness
The other 2 passive lines for each race still exist.
Just because you're hybridizing the spell and weapon damage doesn't mean you're making every race the same.
Why be for arbitrary aesthetic limitations that literally don't affect the balance of the game?
Altmer and Orc are still different enough even though they both have access to spell and weapon damage.
It's just weird, if zos concentrates orcs as staminists, so keep doing it, same with Altmer, even if Altmer focuses like a magician. But just giving spd orcs and wpd altmers is very strange. I see it being done for casuals.
Casualophobia, really.
I cannot logically connect casuals and hybridisation, because casuals do not play long and hardcore players wish hybrid builds for a very long time.Let's be extremely precise in our use of terms.2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »DecayingArtist wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »Don't you think that races will lose their uniqueness at such a rate? If everyone has both spd and wpd, then there will not be much uniqueness
The other 2 passive lines for each race still exist.
Just because you're hybridizing the spell and weapon damage doesn't mean you're making every race the same.
Why be for arbitrary aesthetic limitations that literally don't affect the balance of the game?
Altmer and Orc are still different enough even though they both have access to spell and weapon damage.
It's just weird, if zos concentrates orcs as staminists, so keep doing it, same with Altmer, even if Altmer focuses like a magician. But just giving spd orcs and wpd altmers is very strange. I see it being done for casuals.
Casualophobia, really.
I cannot logically connect casuals and hybridisation, because casuals do not play long and hardcore players wish hybrid builds for a very long time.
A casual is far more likely to get their pure stamina or magicka build off of YouTube and roll with it. They don't spend time and gold trying to make something work against the meta.2 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't like it, but I guess it makes people who want to be the "wrong" race happy, so oh well. Who am I to spoil their fun?
The only things I cannot overlook is when races are missing something that they shouldn't, like stealth on Bosmer or poison resistance on Argonians.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
wild_kmacdb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
It also goes against the damage versus sustain trade-off. If all damage races get spell and weapon damage, all sustain races should have magicka and stamina sustain, right?
Sustain for a stat you're not invested in is still useful to a degree for buffs/CC (magicka) or core abilities like rolling/CC break (stam). Weapon / spell damage for a stat you're not invested in however, is pretty much useless as it will not come into play as you wont slot abilities that scale off of a stat youre not built in.Edited by wild_kmacdb16_ESO on January 30, 2021 10:04PM0 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lore is annoying when it alters combat balance in a competitive mmorpg.
Edited by Wolfpaw on January 31, 2021 1:39AM2 -
MrGraves✭✭✭✭Lore is annoying when it alters combat balance in a competitive MMORPG.
As someone who would consider themselves a lore nerd, I completely agree. It would work in other games, but not ESO. they would have to make so many major changes that they would just be straight up making a new game to make it work to give the different races these buffs. Personally, I think they can still do it without impacting combat by taking away these sorts of dmg buffs, etc. max stam/mag wouldn't be so much of an issue if max stam/mag didn't impact your damage output. but even that I feel like it's eh. not the best. but this patch is just straight-up unbalanced with taking orc stam and making dark elves, who were supposed to be more split evenly between mag/stam, more stam than orc. I don't think Orc should necessarily be BETTER either but it's just not a good choice. I don't think people should be punished for playing magicka orcs by end game, so much as working harder to get to the same level as an altmer with mag.2 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lore is annoying when it alters combat balance in a competitive mmorpg.
I think we have to be a little careful, though, about the extent to which an MMO can rightfully be called “competitive” when performance issues frequently turn PvP into a game of Pin the Tail on the Donkey and endgame PvE trials into “how many simultaneous crashes will your group suffer in the lobby alone?” (My last trial was 3. It’s a little sad how 25% of the group disconnecting at once has become not bad, relatively speaking.)
That extra stam or mag or weapon/spell damage from a racial bonus isn’t going to upset a balance that just can’t exist in practical terms thanks to the game’s current state of performance.
There’s a reason ESO isn’t an esport, after all. The infrastructure simply can’t support a truly competitive environment.2 -
stefj68✭✭✭✭✭i like those change, if i decide to switch to a magicka build, or stamina, i dont have to buy a race change tokens, and i can test out benefits right away
1 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭Its dumb, much like ZOS trying to make Khajiit mages 🙄 Imperial, Bosmer and even Nords and Redguards have had magicka skill bonuses in the other Elder Scrolls games Khajiit have never had any like ZOS c'mon. But yep Orc mages and Altmer barbarians totally legit now
Seriously tho, they need to properly give races bonuses such as Bosmer sneak and disease+poison resist, Redguards disease+poison resist. Argonians poison resist, Altmer's weakness to magicka. Nords should have some form of weapon damage bonus. Orcs having a small spell resistance passive. The Orcs being the fast race with the sprint bonus always confused me tho cause they were always the slowest and tankiest race, their racial power 'Berserk' used to slow them down but increase their damage, if anything Bosmer, Redguard or Khajiit should have the sprint speed passive tbh.Edited by Vetixio on January 31, 2021 10:25PMPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.0 -
Sinolai✭✭✭✭✭Tanks like to have both and Trap damage is increased with weapon damage so this is a small buff for all magicka altmers too. You are not forced to have Orc MagSorc or Altmer StamDK but it doesnt really hurt to have a passive with minimal usage.
If you are conplaining about lore, I think it is fitting. Altmer has strong warriors too and Orcs have crude magic. Both sre still more attuned to one side of the stam/mag axis as their culture suggest.Edited by Sinolai on February 1, 2021 8:55AM0 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s all just game mechanics. A lot of the passives for races in this game don’t make any sense in relation to the background
If we were being entirely true to the lore then the High Elves would have passives that would make them superior in magic and martial skills. One-on-one the background has them as being the greatest warriors in the world, a combination of superior reflexes and an immense lifespan.
So I’m gonna to drop a big realisation for some folks, most people do not play the meta and for them this change does make sense. If you play hybrid builds and you like High Elves this is a great change and the same for Orcs. It doesn’t take anything away from any other race because it’s amplifying a side of their character that is still at a disadvantage.
If you like the absolute cutting edge of builds then this change will be utterly irrelevant to you therefore why worry about it?
For the rest of us it opens up opportunities to make fun and interesting characters. Will your characters be better than ours in terms of combat... yes, but I but many of us do not enjoy meta type builds and for us this change is wonderful1
