PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the new item sets in Update 25. Please try out the new item sets and let us know what you think! Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Which of the new item sets did you try out, and what did you think of them?
• Did anything you received feel under or over-powered?
• Would you include any of the new item sets in any of your current builds?
• Do you have any general feedback?

Mykriz

Why do the new item sets have weapon/spell critical chance instead of just critical chance? We giving up on combining them?

ccfeeling

No interesting to all new sets, just a joke.

ESO_Nightingale

Encratis's Behemoth adds more power to flame damage when no shock or frost variant of engulfing flames exists. i don't understand why every mag toon in a group needs to be a fire mage. if the damage portion of this set only effected self then i'd see no problem, but it being a group buff devalues damage dealers not using a flame staff. why does this exist?

YandereGirlfriend

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Encratis's Behemoth adds more power to flame damage when no shock or frost variant of engulfing flames exists. i don't understand why every mag toon in a group needs to be a fire mage. if the damage portion of this set only effected self then i'd see no problem, but it being a group buff devalues damage dealers not using a flame staff. why does this exist?

Quoted for truth.

Despite developer rhetoric to the contrary, the game seems determined to cram down Flame Damage as the only viable DPS choice.

Furthermore, why do we have yet another Flame-oriented monster set when both Frost and Shock are still without a single dedicated DPS set?

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Encratis's Behemoth adds more power to flame damage when no shock or frost variant of engulfing flames exists. i don't understand why every mag toon in a group needs to be a fire mage. if the damage portion of this set only effected self then i'd see no problem, but it being a group buff devalues damage dealers not using a flame staff. why does this exist?

Quoted for truth.

Despite developer rhetoric to the contrary, the game seems determined to cram down Flame Damage as the only viable DPS choice.

Furthermore, why do we have yet another Flame-oriented monster set when both Frost and Shock are still without a single dedicated DPS set?

exactly. why the hell is everything about fire for magicka characters? i'm playing the frost class. why is fire still my best weapon by a long shot? it's ridiculous.

B0SSzombie

I guess it's KIND of similar to the other Elder Scrolls games?

Fire did more damage, Shock did damage and drained Stamina Magicka, and Frost did damage and drained Magicka Stamina.

Not that the other two elements follow their archetypes, of course.



On topic though, neither of the Heavy Sets look particularly amazing. If I need Shields, I'd run Imperium, and the kind of low Ultimate generation on the other set doesn't feel worth giving up a stronger set to use.

BohnT2

Drake's Rush is way too powerful in PvP environments, a single person in the group can fuel the ultimate supply of a whole ballgroup making them a lot more deadly.

Major Heroism itself is a problematic buff as it allows to use defensive ults more often making it all the more easy to stall fights endlessly.
Giving a full group of players this buff at a 66.6% uptime is just way too strong, especially with how easy it is to proc.

If it was tied to something you'd actively had to set up and think about there could be an argument but even then major heroism available at such a scheme isn't healthy for PvP.

YandereGirlfriend

BohnT2 wrote: »

Drake's Rush is way too powerful in PvP environments, a single person in the group can fuel the ultimate supply of a whole ballgroup making them a lot more deadly.

Major Heroism itself is a problematic buff as it allows to use defensive ults more often making it all the more easy to stall fights endlessly.
Giving a full group of players this buff at a 66.6% uptime is just way too strong, especially with how easy it is to proc.

If it was tied to something you'd actively had to set up and think about there could be an argument but even then major heroism available at such a scheme isn't healthy for PvP.

It certainly has the potential to be strong.

However, if you go too far in the opposite direction, you risk making it unattractive for PvE which is undoubtedly where ZOS intended the set to shine.

Having it tied to Bash naturally limits its uptime in PvP (while keeping it easy to proc for PvE tanks) since no group is going to actually be within Bash range of an enemy constantly on cooldown.

Combat will ebb and flow and if groups are running away from you it will prove quite difficult to proc the set. Likewise if your group is maneuvering to extricate itself from the path of an oncoming zerg. In actual combat, I would imagine the uptime to be in the 30-45% range rather than anywhere near 67%.

And that strikes me as balanced enough to avoid butchering the set and spoiling even more PvE content for the sake of PvP. In a worst-case scenario, you could shift the proc to "On interrupt" but I would only advocate doing that if it actually proved to be a problem in PvP rather than pre-emptively.

Runefang

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Encratis's Behemoth adds more power to flame damage when no shock or frost variant of engulfing flames exists. i don't understand why every mag toon in a group needs to be a fire mage. if the damage portion of this set only effected self then i'd see no problem, but it being a group buff devalues damage dealers not using a flame staff. why does this exist?

Yeah it's a disappointing set for class balance. It'll buff classes that do more fire damage than others (DK and Necro) and these are the ones that are already being brought to optimised trials anyway (admittedly just one DK and many Necros).

MashmalloMan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Encratis's Behemoth adds more power to flame damage when no shock or frost variant of engulfing flames exists. i don't understand why every mag toon in a group needs to be a fire mage. if the damage portion of this set only effected self then i'd see no problem, but it being a group buff devalues damage dealers not using a flame staff. why does this exist?

Quoted for truth. No one, even DK mains asked for a set like this. We only get 4 monster sets a year, why do you continue to spend 25/50% of your yearly resources on fire related monster sets?

BohnT2

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Drake's Rush is way too powerful in PvP environments, a single person in the group can fuel the ultimate supply of a whole ballgroup making them a lot more deadly.

Major Heroism itself is a problematic buff as it allows to use defensive ults more often making it all the more easy to stall fights endlessly.
Giving a full group of players this buff at a 66.6% uptime is just way too strong, especially with how easy it is to proc.

If it was tied to something you'd actively had to set up and think about there could be an argument but even then major heroism available at such a scheme isn't healthy for PvP.

It certainly has the potential to be strong.

However, if you go too far in the opposite direction, you risk making it unattractive for PvE which is undoubtedly where ZOS intended the set to shine.

Having it tied to Bash naturally limits its uptime in PvP (while keeping it easy to proc for PvE tanks) since no group is going to actually be within Bash range of an enemy constantly on cooldown.

Combat will ebb and flow and if groups are running away from you it will prove quite difficult to proc the set. Likewise if your group is maneuvering to extricate itself from the path of an oncoming zerg. In actual combat, I would imagine the uptime to be in the 30-45% range rather than anywhere near 67%.

And that strikes me as balanced enough to avoid butchering the set and spoiling even more PvE content for the sake of PvP. In a worst-case scenario, you could shift the proc to "On interrupt" but I would only advocate doing that if it actually proved to be a problem in PvP rather than pre-emptively.

If a set is harmful for a whole aspect of the game there's no reason to preserve it.
PvP balance is a dumpsterfire already there's no reason to throw more trash in there.

Josira

B0SSzombie wrote: »

I guess it's KIND of similar to the other Elder Scrolls games?

Fire did more damage, Shock did damage and drained Stamina, and Frost did damage and drained Magicka.

Not that the other two elements follow their archetypes, of course.



On topic though, neither of the Heavy Sets look particularly amazing. If I need Shields, I'd run Imperium, and the kind of low Ultimate generation on the other set doesn't feel worth giving up a stronger set to use.

imsorrypleasedonthitme for being 'that guy' but shock damaged magicka and frost damaged stamina,was the other way around sorry heh...

icebear

No playble new monster sets and sets in new dlc dungeon. Zos you hate DK do new monster mask 5% less fire damage and 5% do more fire damage. This are really idiotick, 2 new dung are trash. I dont know, but you last 3 years do really bad set.

icebear

Only buff stamina build and nerf magica, amaizing choise way zos.

ESO_Nightingale

icebear wrote: »

No playble new monster sets and sets in new dlc dungeon. Zos you hate DK do new monster mask 5% less fire damage and 5% do more fire damage. This are really idiotick, 2 new dung are trash. I dont know, but you last 3 years do really bad set.

I don't believe you understand how the set works. How it works is that you and your allies within the radius will take less fire damage from enemies, and you and your allies deal +5% flame damage to enemies who are inside the circle.

Ratzkifal

B0SSzombie wrote: »

I guess it's KIND of similar to the other Elder Scrolls games?

Fire did more damage, Shock did damage and drained Stamina, and Frost did damage and drained Magicka.

Not that the other two elements follow their archetypes, of course.



On topic though, neither of the Heavy Sets look particularly amazing. If I need Shields, I'd run Imperium, and the kind of low Ultimate generation on the other set doesn't feel worth giving up a stronger set to use.

Don't say that. Whenever someone says "the new set is trash, I can just run X", then X gets nerfed that very same patch. Imperium is weak already. It does not need a nerf.

That being said, the wording on Foolkiller's Ward is also not very clear. Do you actually have to block an attack for it or is "bracing" enough? "Activating Block" could be either of those.

YandereGirlfriend

The Baron Zaudrus Monster Set is considerably under-tuned at the moment.

As it stands, in the best case, this set is giving you 3 ultimate every 2 seconds. That represents a slightly worse version of Major Heroism and it comes at the cost of both your Monster Set as well as running the Charged weapon trait.

Using that configuration is a massive opportunity cost and necessitates sacrificing 7.2% Critical Chance from Precise as well as 5-6k DPS from the Maw of the Infernal Monster Set. Overall, it is a DPS loss of well over 10k.

I would strongly recommend abolishing the cooldown entirely in order to truly reward builds that make the decision to sacrifice damage in order to fully lean into applying Status Effects.

ZOS_Liforce

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

YandereGirlfriend

ZOS_Liforce wrote: »

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

This is fantastic news!

I would love to see one of each as part of the next dungeon DLC.

Ratzkifal

ZOS_Liforce wrote: »

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

Okay, that's cool and I get why. It's just that previously ice themed releases did not give any good Frost damage sets. Direfrost Keep has a heavy armor proc set for ice damage builds that deals Fire damage and benefits the most from using a Lightning staff and Iceheart is a defensive set. Scalecaller peak, despite being on top of a freezing cold mountain had no Frost themed set, instead Zaan is breathing fire when she could have been an ice-themed Dragonpriestess. Frostvault does have a good frost proc set but proc sets are not viable in PvE. Depths of Malatar has a frost tank set. Icereach, despite literally having ice in its name and being somewhat of a sequel to Direfrost Keep, had not a single frost themed set. Greymoor has a single frost healing set, even though that chapter had more sets than any previous release and was set in Skyrim.
There are even fewer sets that deal with Shock damage. The best sets that frost and shock have are for all elements combined, so there we have fire again.

With the whole year revolving around Dagon and the general area being Imperial/Argonian themed, it's probably going to be an entire year without a single frost set and after that we will most definitely not go back to Skyrim again already either, but probably Hammerfell which is a literal desert.

Fire just seems like the favorite child because it gets all the good effects on skills and sets while Frost and Lightning need to wait their turn until a matching theme presents itself only to then get another support set or even worse - none at all.
With so few opportunities to match the theme of a release with a damage fantasy, please make the next time count when the opportunity arises!

CP5

Ratzkifal wrote: »

ZOS_Liforce wrote: »

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

Okay, that's cool and I get why. It's just that previously ice themed releases did not give any good Frost damage sets. Direfrost Keep has a heavy armor proc set for ice damage builds that deals Fire damage and benefits the most from using a Lightning staff and Iceheart is a defensive set. Scalecaller peak, despite being on top of a freezing cold mountain had no Frost themed set, instead Zaan is breathing fire when she could have been an ice-themed Dragonpriestess. Frostvault does have a good frost proc set but proc sets are not viable in PvE. Depths of Malatar has a frost tank set. Icereach, despite literally having ice in its name and being somewhat of a sequel to Direfrost Keep, had not a single frost themed set. Greymoor has a single frost healing set, even though that chapter had more sets than any previous release and was set in Skyrim.
There are even fewer sets that deal with Shock damage. The best sets that frost and shock have are for all elements combined, so there we have fire again.

With the whole year revolving around Dagon and the general area being Imperial/Argonian themed, it's probably going to be an entire year without a single frost set and after that we will most definitely not go back to Skyrim again already either, but probably Hammerfell which is a literal desert.

Fire just seems like the favorite child because it gets all the good effects on skills and sets while Frost and Lightning need to wait their turn until a matching theme presents itself only to then get another support set or even worse - none at all.
With so few opportunities to match the theme of a release with a damage fantasy, please make the next time count when the opportunity arises!

To add onto that, base game sets like Storm Master are generally considered to be more of a theme-based set rather than something someone would practically use. If old sets that are underused could be updated during this fire-based year frost and shock sets could be given better representation and older sets could be brought out of the bin which would help increase the number of options people have. As is fire's direct damage passive on top of now two unique aoe debuffs that increase the damage enemies take from fire makes even shock staves worse in the area where they should excel.

Imagine if say, shock damage sets would always do their proced damage in an aoe, and frost sets not only being made more consistent but also providing more unique and valuable debuffs, to at least warrant some niche use at least.

Runefang

ZOS_Liforce wrote: »

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

Yeah that’s BS really. I mean we got a frost healing set for gods sake!?!

ESO_Nightingale

ZOS_Liforce wrote: »

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

Thank you for the update since we have been left in the dark for so long. If possible, can you tell us if the team is looking at making both stat and proc related sets? Frost is in dire need of a critical chance stat related set unique to it only. And if the developers are aware that this new fire monster helmet is funneling more power into everyone using flame staves when we want more magic weapon diversity?

katorga

Unleashed Ritualist (Light Armor):
5 – Dealing damage to an enemy applies Ritualist’s Mark to them for 10 seconds. Enemies with your Ritualist’s Mark take an additional 16% damage from your summoned pets.

16% damage to blastbones....hmmm.

ESO_Nightingale

katorga wrote: »

Unleashed Ritualist (Light Armor):
5 – Dealing damage to an enemy applies Ritualist’s Mark to them for 10 seconds. Enemies with your Ritualist’s Mark take an additional 16% damage from your summoned pets.

16% damage to blastbones....hmmm.

Yeah that's actually a nice set that magcro would like. I'm honestly super keen to see how it works with warden bear and necromancer's pets.

Kurat

Nothing wrong with fire theme or any theme really. It's just that all the recent sets have been trash, even the sets from Kynes Aegis. Its nice to get new dungeons and trials but give us some useful sets to farm. Everyone is only doing new content once just to get titles/skins whatever and then dont wanna do it no more. The current newest trial is the least done trial. Cloudtest has been out long time now and it's still among the most run trial because of good gear. I hope the upcoming trial has at least some useful sets unlike the 2 new dungeons.

Sanctum74

Enough with the proc sets, bring back some stat based sets.

ESO_Nightingale

Runefang wrote: »

ZOS_Liforce wrote: »

For Update 29, our two dungeons are themed around Mehrunes Dagon's fiery disposition, and our fire based item sets reinforce those themes. We are exploring more Shock and Frost themed Magicka sets in future updates.

Yeah that’s BS really. I mean we got a frost healing set for gods sake!?!

I'm still pissed about that. Given how many aoe HoT proc sets already exist, this effect but actually dealing damage on a monster set would have been exactly what we needed.

stefj68

i tought they were regrouping stats... like melee crits and spell crits into crits... melee penteration and spell penetration into penetration and so on... they seems to revert back to the old way

Transairion

Unleashed Ritualist (Light Armor):
5 – Dealing damage to an enemy applies Ritualist’s Mark to them for 10 seconds. Enemies with your Ritualist’s Mark take an additional 16% damage from your summoned pets.

Anyone willing to do the math on this set to see it's broken OP or "worthless" in a best case scenario, say Pet Sorceror? I'm super happy to see another pet-specific set after Necropotence all those years ago, but considering all the nerfs that set and Daedric Prey has had over time...

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Daedric_Curse

Current Prey + this set = single target +36% pet damage every 6 seconds but I'd rather not get my hopes up