Anyone else really disappointed with the CP overhaul?

Grianasteri

And even though power cap may be at 1200 cp, with the cp cap raised to 3600 you will always have that gnawing feeling in the back of your mind that you're never done with that annoying progression.

I wonder how many of us are nearing that already, cos of course CP has continued to increase even without it counting... I have no idea if we will therefore reset to the new CP point and we will have a ton of unallocated CP to allocate...

ExistingRug61

JinMori wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

But CP 3600 has been the cap for years? What is changing here except the soft cap getting a huge increase from 810 to 1200?

Effectively they are changing nothing, because you are still limited by how many perks you can slot, so it's same s... Different color.

The only thing is that they are pushing for this horizontal progression thing, which honestly... It's not looking good, we'll see.

It’s a bit too early too tell what the “limit” will be, as some of the stars don’t need to be slotted to give their effect. So we get these in addition to the 12 “slotted” stars. So, depending on how many of the not required to be slotted stars there are, it may be that more CP are actually being used simultaneously.

Additionally, in this system there is scope for vertical progression to be added if ZOS decide to, while still keeping the limit of 12 “slotted” stars. ZOS stated that they designed the system to allow them to add extra stars in future updates, so potentially they could add additional stars that don’t need to be slotted, or increase the cap on existing stars (ie: change the cap on the not required to be slotted star that gives stam or mag from 50 to 100 etc), either way increasing potential vertical progression. (I’m not suggesting this should happen, just that it is possible under the new scheme)

In my opinion, it’s a bit too early to judge until we see the full detail of the stars, and also what sort of additions get made to it in future updates. I am cautiously optimistic, as while we have not seen the details yet I would hope that ZOS will try to maintain the approximate power level between the old and new systems, but also I see more scope for expansion in the new system as it’s structure is more flexible vs the current system’s more rigid structure and hard cap, although I somewhat lament the loss of the lore friendly constellation names.

rpa

Let's see the PTS first.

TwinLamps

We are yet to see how tuned is the system.
From what at we saw so far I must say I find new names of base skill trees terrible.

What was the issue with names we had?
Thief, Mage and Warrior?
These were TES related and I am certain vast majority of players loved them.

Now we see what is clearly thief constellation and it says crafting.
And warrior says fitness
wtf lmoa

RazielSR

So true. The names are absolutely stupid.

Sandman929

They reworked the UI, they nearly tripled its size and made it expandable, they added an active bar, they broadened the horizontal progression and the vertical progression. I haven't read all the stars yet but I'm anything but disappointed. Looks ambitious.

BackStabeth

I see a lot of people saying "I liked what I saw" and that's exactly what ZOS was hoping you would say.

What I took away from what I watched was that flash, what they presented visually was meant to excite you, of course it was. It was meant to be more than that though.

While giving you all the flashy colors and designs and things that capture your visual imagination they told you they were scraping a system we have become used to. They didn't do it for us, they did the visual garbage for us to sell us something they need to do so they can retain their profit margin.

It's like this, they have a profit margin target. They spend as little as possible to make as much money as possible. So long as they can keep you mesmerized by the flashy twitch streams they can divert your attention from what is really going on.

For example, they are changing the CP system not for our benefit so much as it's for their own. They realize they have a problem with server resources but instead of investing in the hardware and talent required to make that work more efficiently, they scrap one system for another so that they can save system resources without a capital investment. It's business, not gaming.

ZOS made it plain and clear the server upgrades as they call them will not affect performance, but shouldn't they? The only reason they will not affect performance is if they are not upgrading the servers to do so. And the only reason they would not do that is to save money. If they keep the servers at a similar build as they are currently instead of truly upgrading them, then they would be require to hire new and more talent. So instead of upgrading servers, they pretend with flash and pomp that they are doing us a favor, and these changes will positively affect the server issues, etc.

What I took away from the twitch stream is that ZOS would rather hire talent to make flashy garbage to sell more flashy garbage, rather than fixing the issues with what we already have. I know that ZOS is willing to cripple the game as it is now to make it seem they are fixing problems when really they are just taking away those things that we use, that are causing the problems. In this way, they can do things like kill gear procs in PvP and not spend the human resources and server upgrades that would make them work smoothly without removing them at all. If they took the money spent on trying to present taking away functionality and selling it as some kind of upgrade or benefit and instead, invested that money into fixing what is obviously and glaringly wrong things would be better.

ZOS seems to have some sort of knee jerk response anytime doing the right thing comes up. So they are resistant, rebellious, refuse to do what needs to be done and instead takes away functionality and sells it as a performance upgrade.

Made me sick to watch all the fake excitement the people presenting this garbage were pretending. If you listen to the presenters, when their words come faster from their mouth as they are explaining the reason they are making these changes is so that there is not as high a demand on server resources, you realize that even they know they are trying to sell something that is all bull and fluff.

ZOS treats us as if they can sell us anything if they just dump enough marketing dollars into flash and pomp. They treat us like unknowing children. They spoon feed us what they want us to think instead of being honest and forthright. I feel that ZOS is attempted to trick us into believing something, and selling us something that is bogus. They way it was all presented just accentuated this feeling I have had for a very long time.

We can do things right now in game, that ZOS is planning to take away from us. When we sub, we sub for the services provided and now they are planning on taking those services away. I'm going to come to a point where I make the decision to stop playing a game that involves a story I enjoy because of how the company behaves and treats us, their customers.

Luke_Flamesword

Is this cp rework coming in march or june?

March with Q1 update

Alendrin

How can you be disappointed with something you have not seen the details on yet?

Sju

BackStabeth wrote: »

I see a lot of people saying "I liked what I saw" and that's exactly what ZOS was hoping you would say.

What I took away from what I watched was that flash, what they presented visually was meant to excite you, of course it was. It was meant to be more than that though.

While giving you all the flashy colors and designs and things that capture your visual imagination they told you they were scraping a system we have become used to. They didn't do it for us, they did the visual garbage for us to sell us something they need to do so they can retain their profit margin.

It's like this, they have a profit margin target. They spend as little as possible to make as much money as possible. So long as they can keep you mesmerized by the flashy twitch streams they can divert your attention from what is really going on.

For example, they are changing the CP system not for our benefit so much as it's for their own. They realize they have a problem with server resources but instead of investing in the hardware and talent required to make that work more efficiently, they scrap one system for another so that they can save system resources without a capital investment. It's business, not gaming.

ZOS made it plain and clear the server upgrades as they call them will not affect performance, but shouldn't they? The only reason they will not affect performance is if they are not upgrading the servers to do so. And the only reason they would not do that is to save money. If they keep the servers at a similar build as they are currently instead of truly upgrading them, then they would be require to hire new and more talent. So instead of upgrading servers, they pretend with flash and pomp that they are doing us a favor, and these changes will positively affect the server issues, etc.

What I took away from the twitch stream is that ZOS would rather hire talent to make flashy garbage to sell more flashy garbage, rather than fixing the issues with what we already have. I know that ZOS is willing to cripple the game as it is now to make it seem they are fixing problems when really they are just taking away those things that we use, that are causing the problems. In this way, they can do things like kill gear procs in PvP and not spend the human resources and server upgrades that would make them work smoothly without removing them at all. If they took the money spent on trying to present taking away functionality and selling it as some kind of upgrade or benefit and instead, invested that money into fixing what is obviously and glaringly wrong things would be better.

ZOS seems to have some sort of knee jerk response anytime doing the right thing comes up. So they are resistant, rebellious, refuse to do what needs to be done and instead takes away functionality and sells it as a performance upgrade.

Made me sick to watch all the fake excitement the people presenting this garbage were pretending. If you listen to the presenters, when their words come faster from their mouth as they are explaining the reason they are making these changes is so that there is not as high a demand on server resources, you realize that even they know they are trying to sell something that is all bull and fluff.

ZOS treats us as if they can sell us anything if they just dump enough marketing dollars into flash and pomp. They treat us like unknowing children. They spoon feed us what they want us to think instead of being honest and forthright. I feel that ZOS is attempted to trick us into believing something, and selling us something that is bogus. They way it was all presented just accentuated this feeling I have had for a very long time.

We can do things right now in game, that ZOS is planning to take away from us. When we sub, we sub for the services provided and now they are planning on taking those services away. I'm going to come to a point where I make the decision to stop playing a game that involves a story I enjoy because of how the company behaves and treats us, their customers.

Maybe you missed the part where they are upgrading servers finally, maybe it won't be enough, but you also missed the part where they said this cuts calculations way down-the main culprit of performance problems.

Starlock

BackStabeth wrote: »

It's like this, they have a profit margin target. They spend as little as possible to make as much money as possible. So long as they can keep you mesmerized by the flashy twitch streams they can divert your attention from what is really going on.

For example, they are changing the CP system not for our benefit so much as it's for their own. They realize they have a problem with server resources but instead of investing in the hardware and talent required to make that work more efficiently, they scrap one system for another so that they can save system resources without a capital investment. It's business, not gaming.

While I agree that Zenimax Online puts too much priority on profit margins at the expense of the game, even I do not believe that is what is going on here. Have you read this over here yet?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559230/update-29-combat-preview/p1

There are very compelling gameplay reasons for why they are making these changes, as Wheeler explains. It is a lengthy read, but give it a look.

Luke_Flamesword

This is sad how many people already complain about new system when this is a really big, complex change and we didn't see details yet. You really produce walls of text why this is wrong even when you still don't know how exactly it will work? I also have seen a lot of misunderstanding, so many people complain when they even don't uderstand what was told already about new CP

proteinexe

Nope, the CP changes were the thing that saved the day for me - really excited 😄

Odovacar

Lets see what the notes read and when our unsung hero's on PTS do testing then we can know if we're in a ok or bad spot with CP 2.0. /fingerscrossed

katorga

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Is still to early to be excited/complain, just wait till tomorrow to see the numbers.

But im still kinda hyped for the 2000 oblivion damage when you kill an enemy each level invested (max 10k). Lovely for pvp

Of course shortly after release they will determine that the new CP model is not "performant" and disable CP in all pvp, along with sets, healing, etc. lol.

spoqster

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This is sad how many people already complain about new system when this is a really big, complex change and we didn't see details yet. You really produce walls of text why this is wrong even when you still don't know how exactly it will work? I also have seen a lot of misunderstanding, so many people complain when they even don't uderstand what was told already about new CP

Personally I am convinced the new system will be better than the old one. They probably designed it well with respect to what they wanted to do. It’s what they wanted to do that is wrong. I am not saying they’ve made it worse, I am saying they missed a huge opportunity to make the game better by ripping out that bloated power progression that is the cp system.

Klad

I'm sorta digging what its evolving into.

Actions choices, not unlimited power, is something I have been asking for, for a very long time.

MirandaSharp

I think we just have to wait to see how it pans out. It can't really get worse than the current system....

Cireous

*Currently swooning over the CRAFT constellation on the PTS*

mocap

JinMori wrote: »

Effectively they are changing nothing, because you are still limited by how many perks you can slot, so it's same s... Different color.

this.

Since dungeon/trial bosses stats remain unchanged, there will be no dramatically changes to player general values, such as DPS, tank-ability or heal per second or else.

Uvi_AUT

spoqster wrote: »

[*] Be done with power progression at lvl 50 - earn your ropes in a few days and then it's all about skill. No more senseless grinding cp to hit max power level. No more changing cp before every trial.

Without progression, since there is no levelcap-increase and devaluation of Gear, the game would literally stop after a couple of weeks. You get to 50, make your goldgear in 2-3 weeks, and its over.
Your suggestion would be the death of the game.

[*] With all combat abilities removed from the cp system, make it all about quality of life perks. 100% horizontal - everything in there is cool, nothing is needed to play well.

Thats not how mmos work. QOL and Fashina is sidecontent, not maincontent. The most important part is advancing your character, be it through vertical progression or through gear.

[*] Move crafting into the Champion System to make it account-wide. No more load screens to change characters to craft a glyph or some gear.

I wouldnt have a problem with that. But it will never happen, since it literally would remove years of work from characters.

[*] And best of all: Make CP = Achievement Points. The more achievements you earned, the more quality of life options you get - and the bigger the number in front of your name.
[/list] Isnt that already the case? CP are beside the name in the UI.

Kurat

mocap wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Effectively they are changing nothing, because you are still limited by how many perks you can slot, so it's same s... Different color.

this.

Since dungeon/trial bosses stats remain unchanged, there will be no dramatically changes to player general values, such as DPS, tank-ability or heal per second or else.

Unfortunately there are. Dps got nerfed at least 30-40%. Roll dodge cost is up 21% for tanks lol. Its depressing

Varangian_af_Scaniae

"From a psychological perspective it just feels terrible to never be max level."
I'm the exact opposite. It feels terrible logging in everyday doing dailies and seeing all that xp being "wasted". Every CP level after max is just a splinter in ones eye.

spoqster

Grianasteri wrote: »

And even though power cap may be at 1200 cp, with the cp cap raised to 3600 you will always have that gnawing feeling in the back of your mind that you're never done with that annoying progression.

I wonder how many of us are nearing that already, cos of course CP has continued to increase even without it counting... I have no idea if we will therefore reset to the new CP point and we will have a ton of unallocated CP to allocate...

Most people I know, and I'm talking Gryphon Hearts, Immortal Redeemers, Tick-Tock Tormenters - so people who are capable of getting all achievements in a zone, seem to have around 1500 cp plus/minus maybe 300. That's on console, so it might be more for PC players. But that's still way off of 3600.

My issue here is not with the number of cp points though. My issue is with the whole idea behind it. ZOS obviously believes that players want to have that constant progression, of getting a little level every few hours. That's why they introduced the cp system in the first place, so there is that constant progression. And I just don't believe that's true. I don't believe players want that.

I've never heard anyone say or saw a forum post that says "oh damn I don't enjoy the game anymore because I am at cp cap and now I don't earn spendable cp anymore." Never. On the other hand I can't even count the number of times I've heard people say "YESSSS! I am finally at max CP!!!" It's on reddit, in the forums, people write it in guild chat or on discord, or just say it in party.

WoW has been out for over 15 years now I believe, and every expansion they raise the level cap, and every time people are coming up with ways of reaching max level the quickest possible. Some grind it hard in a few hours, others do quests to get it but still try to get it quick. That's because people want to be at their max power as quickly as possible - for different reasons.

A game needs progression to keep players interested, of course. But the exciting forms of progression are player skill, achievements, cosmetics, social status, stuff like that. A constant level up is either meaningless if there is no power involved, or debilitating if power is involved.

spoqster

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

[*] Be done with power progression at lvl 50 - earn your ropes in a few days and then it's all about skill. No more senseless grinding cp to hit max power level. No more changing cp before every trial.

Without progression, since there is no levelcap-increase and devaluation of Gear, the game would literally stop after a couple of weeks. You get to 50, make your goldgear in 2-3 weeks, and its over.
Your suggestion would be the death of the game.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. That's where the game starts. Once you're at max power you can truly start playing the game. That's where you can start going for dungeon hard modes, no death runs, vet trials and eventually Gryphon Heart and Godslayer. Or play pvp properly.

Having players reach their max power only after months of gameplay (or days of hard grinding) just means you're excluding a large section of the player base from the really interesting, challenging, addictive and simply fun content of the game. In my opinion the number of people who are put off by the grind is far larger than the number of people who would leave after lvl 50 because they can't level up any longer. Look at the numbers. According to Matt Firor almost 18 million people have tried out ESO over the course of the years. So where are these people now? Why are the servers so empty? Why don't 10 million people play ESO every day? I think the fact that you have to level up to cp 810 to be at max level plays a big part in that.

Even a player who just plays for the quests will play it for the story or for the social interactions with the people he meets in his guilds - not for some random minuscule level up they get every hour.

Sgrug

NOT DISAPPOINTED AT ALL

I was about to write ESO off as it seemed all progression was dead. This was badly needed, maybe it is not perfect but something needed to happen. I am more than happy to experience the new system and see what comes of it.

@spoqster A game needs progression to keep players interested, of course. But the exciting forms of progression are player skill, achievements, cosmetics, social status, stuff like that. A constant level up is either meaningless if there is no power involved, or debilitating if power is involved.

What you state as fact is just an opinion, one I do not share. Even the minuscule level up means something to me, yes others not so much but again there are those to whom it does. Also I will point out there are those who have absolutely NO care about social status, cosmetics or achievements.

For example:
Almost NO one ever bothers to look at and I have never seen anyone ask about achievements.
Cosmetics mean nothing to anyone I play with and IMO means very little to a lot of players.
Player skill is growth but also hard to capture as a satisfying progression element.

As such I would not call any of those "exciting" forms of progression, but you can as it is just opinion from us both.

Pauwer

Fitness

AyaDark

Do not like changes.

Better no changes at all !

Race change/CP change.

How much more time it will be remade ?

Is it so hard to make something constant and normal working ?

EmpressMeg

Waiting to see how this plays out and hoping its not too much to juggle! I'd be overwhelmed if I were a new player. As it stands now, I'm an old fart player who has lots of CP to spend and not sure how to spend it.

omegatay_ESO

spoqster wrote: »

• And best of all: Make CP = Achievement Points. The more achievements you earned, the more quality of life options you get - and the bigger the number in front of your name.

Nope. Don't like that at all, because what happens is some of that CP gets locked behind stuff I don't want to do, or really can't do. There's reasons I don't pvp, play Monster Hunter, or Dark Souls games. The way it is now, just play the game the way you want and earn CP, and put it where you want. I LIKE that.