The Firesong DLC and Update 36 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

PSA: "Loot Spying" is NOT a Malicious Feature

  • Araphorn
    Araphorn
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    Gear sharing was pretty common from the MMOs I came from, and I have no objections if someone sends me a whisper asking for an item that they need. So far, I have not had a negative experience in this game too, and addon just makes life easy, it saves me linking the items in chat etc.
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    I farmed Jorvuld's Guidance for ages... one guy linked a divines legs piece once. Asked for 50k.. I refused, and they then shared a short clip of them destroying the item... lol. There are allsorts of peeps out there.

    Not sure if I like the addon you describe or not... but on console we get nothing like this haha. But still would be nice to see all the times someone got that darned lightning staff no matter how many times I pleaded for my 12 month farm to end.. lol
  • JanTanhide
    JanTanhide
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    Sorry but I would have done the same thing. Ignore list.
  • JanTanhide
    JanTanhide
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    Sanguinor2 wrote: »
    It is incredibly silly that people dont have any problems with giving data to companies but have an issue with someone seeing their virtual item drops. 99% that those people that are so against it are on like 4 or 5 social media platforms happily sharing stuff.

    I'm on zero social media. Nada. Never have been never will. And I don't like the loot addon at all.
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    JanTanhide wrote: »
    Sanguinor2 wrote: »
    It is incredibly silly that people dont have any problems with giving data to companies but have an issue with someone seeing their virtual item drops. 99% that those people that are so against it are on like 4 or 5 social media platforms happily sharing stuff.

    I'm on zero social media. Nada. Never have been never will. And I don't like the loot addon at all.

    :confused: The forums are social media...

    I was thinking this... but dare not say it. lol.
  • Nord_Raseri
    Nord_Raseri
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    JanTanhide wrote: »
    Sanguinor2 wrote: »
    It is incredibly silly that people dont have any problems with giving data to companies but have an issue with someone seeing their virtual item drops. 99% that those people that are so against it are on like 4 or 5 social media platforms happily sharing stuff.

    I'm on zero social media. Nada. Never have been never will. And I don't like the loot addon at all.

    :confused: The forums are social media...

    It's possible they are like me. The email tied to this forum is tied to absolutely nothing else. No real name, no information about me. Nothing. Zos, and even Sony, doesn't know who I am (I do everything with cash). I also have zero social media presence. Even google maps and any website with a location system thinks I'm somewhere far from where I am.
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
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    I wish console had this. Would be great to not have to check through all my loot for items people need. They could just ask for the specific pieces and I could help them out while saving myself time
    ID: YourACasul

    PSN:
    CP 1500 Stamden (Retired)
    CP 1500 Magsorc (Retired)

    PC:
    CP 800 Heathcro (Active)
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    For those seeking clarification, I only asked them ONCE for the item. They immediately went straight to "if you are spying, I won't give it to you out of principle." They blocked me

    I cut part of your quote because I suspect that a point is being missed here.

    By you.

    So let's put it in third person.

    Person A says: "I see you have the thing, I would like the thing."

    Person B says lots of stuff, but the essential nature of their answer boils down to "no".

    Person A says more; does not respect the "no".

    Person B blocks/ignores Person A.

    The reason for the "no" doesn't matter to this part of the conversation.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Goregrinder
    Goregrinder
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    Without looking at anyone's bag, would my character see other characters grab an item from a dead corpse and put it in their pocket? Because that's really all that matters here. The answer is yes, they wouldn't know what is in your bag but if you killed a dungeon boss of course they would watch you pick up loot and place it into their bag. Imagine if this was DnD...would your character have that information? Yes.
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    As has been said early on by many in many threads.

    In order to get maximum positive reception to your "quest for this specific item"; SAY SO at the beginning of the run.

    Communication tends to get better results.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • HappyDan
    HappyDan
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    Had same issue.
    Was farming for Bani and someone got an Ice staff from a chest I wrote at the start of the dungeon I'm looking for any bani weapons.
    So at the end of the dungeon I see the dude doesn't say anything so I whisper him, hey mate do you need the bani frost stick? He says no but since I looked in his pocket he will bound it and just ignore me.
    As someone who farmed ice reach for a bit and have this kid who will never ever use it say it kinda pissed me off
  • Kikke
    Kikke
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    People are amazing... Just gotta say.. If I meet anyone that get their panties in a twist over a simple question in whisper or group chat about an item that just dropped or even dropped during the run and question came at end. Bad team player, most likely a bad player overall, obviously plays the game as a solo game even in GROUP activities. So you know what I do? I Ignore them. I place them on ignore and move on.

    Also, if you keep adding the nice folks you meet in dungeons to your friends list, then you can go and farm said dungeons with friends instead so if the item would drop your friends would give it too you.

    Oh, and the whole "If you had not spied" comment most of them use.. it's pure BS. If you ask in grp for an item no one replies, if you ask in whisper "if X item dropped" most will ignore you. BUT if you ask "Hey, I see you got x item, if you have no need for it, could I have it?

    But easy rules for life:
    1. Do not PuG
    2. Be nice when you are asking.
    3. DO NOT PUG!
    4. Place idiots on ignore list (and yes, screeching No while slamming ignore just because someone asked a question is being an idiot)
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

    "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • Kikke
    Kikke
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    newtinmpls wrote: »
    As has been said early on by many in many threads.

    In order to get maximum positive reception to your "quest for this specific item"; SAY SO at the beginning of the run.

    Communication tends to get better results.

    say it at the start of the run, people have forgotten it by the end and instantly left

    say it at the start, no one replies and an item drop, some guy got it and said he wanted it, ok.

    say it at the start, you meet the 1 of 1000 people that actually reads group chat but the other guy in the grp that did not got the item but left with it and sold it at a vendor because he did not read, so he did not know that anyone needed said item.

    say it at the end and people have already left

    Or just ask them as you see them get the item, you get a yes, no or maybe "trade at end"

    But my point is, this is a lot of work, just because SOME people gets offended when asked a simple easy question.
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

    "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    Benzux wrote: »
    It takes the exact same amount of time for you to write "Looking for X" in group chat as it does for you to whisper someone "Can you give me X?". Heck, I'd even say it takes less time for you to write in group chat, since you don't have to first find and click on a groupmate's name/write it out in the command.

    The difference is that the former comes off as neutral and polite, while the latter - as has been expressed many times by multiple people in this thread - can come off as invasive and rude.

    Worried that people will forget by the time the dungeons ends, or leave the group immediately after the final boss dies? Say it right before the final boss, then. I've seen people do this numerous times, and as someone with goldfish memory, it does help in remembering what people want.

    Worried that someone will just leave group without saying anything anyway, even after you see they got something you desired? Then the outcome is very likely the exact same as it would have been if you whispered the person directly: They want to keep that piece of loot to themselves, and are fully entitled to do so.

    I disagree. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve regrouped with someone and traveled to a wayshrine to trade gear (give or receive) after we all left a dungeon. That’s the time we have to sit back and scroll through logs of what dropped. I’d say it’s rare that anyone cares about a specific gear piece, and asking is the only way to find out. Anyone is free to keep the gear they need, but I welcome any whispers even if I’ve already left group because chances are I’m on my way to decon the junk they’re asking for.

    As for declaring it at the beginning, that works ok if you’re after 1-2 specific things. Nobody is going to write (or read) a paragraph on which pieces you could make work if you adjusted a build around them. It’s more of a “Oh that piece dropped instead, I think I could use that if you don’t need it”.
  • Benzux
    Benzux
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    Benzux wrote: »
    It takes the exact same amount of time for you to write "Looking for X" in group chat as it does for you to whisper someone "Can you give me X?". Heck, I'd even say it takes less time for you to write in group chat, since you don't have to first find and click on a groupmate's name/write it out in the command.

    The difference is that the former comes off as neutral and polite, while the latter - as has been expressed many times by multiple people in this thread - can come off as invasive and rude.

    Worried that people will forget by the time the dungeons ends, or leave the group immediately after the final boss dies? Say it right before the final boss, then. I've seen people do this numerous times, and as someone with goldfish memory, it does help in remembering what people want.

    Worried that someone will just leave group without saying anything anyway, even after you see they got something you desired? Then the outcome is very likely the exact same as it would have been if you whispered the person directly: They want to keep that piece of loot to themselves, and are fully entitled to do so.

    I disagree. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve regrouped with someone and traveled to a wayshrine to trade gear (give or receive) after we all left a dungeon. That’s the time we have to sit back and scroll through logs of what dropped. I’d say it’s rare that anyone cares about a specific gear piece, and asking is the only way to find out. Anyone is free to keep the gear they need, but I welcome any whispers even if I’ve already left group because chances are I’m on my way to decon the junk they’re asking for.

    As for declaring it at the beginning, that works ok if you’re after 1-2 specific things. Nobody is going to write (or read) a paragraph on which pieces you could make work if you adjusted a build around them. It’s more of a “Oh that piece dropped instead, I think I could use that if you don’t need it”.

    I'm... not quite sure what you're referring to with the first half of that. What do you disagree with? That it takes the same amount of time to write two slightly different versions of the same message? I didn't mention the habit of linking everything you get at the end on the chance that someone is looking for something, I was specifically talking about situations where someone first says that they're looking for something, before anything gets linked. People leaving dungeons "too quickly" is a different thing entirely.

    If I'm looking for multiple pieces of a set (especially body pieces) from a dungeon, I tend to farm "on my own" by relying on my own loot drops, and only really start asking once I know I only need a couple more pieces. Or, then I simply say "Looking for *insert set name here*" without specifying any pieces. This also works if you need specific pieces, but can be flexible by swapping some pieces out, so you don't need to write multiple paragraphs - many times in such cases I've simply said that I'm looking for a set and just take whatever pieces others offer me. If I get lucky, I get the pieces I need/can swap out, and if not, then at least it's a bit of free gold from selling the items I don't need.

    Like my original point was, there is an easy way to ask politely about sharing loot that doesn't involve stalking other people's drops that they aren't willingly sharing with the use of an addon. If someone doesn't share even when everyone is being nice and polite, then they surely would not have done so in any other situation either, and everyone can move on with their lives.
    BenzuxGamer - Xbox One since day 1 - CP 1500+
    Guildmaster of the Sacrificial Warriors, one of the oldest and most member-orientated Guilds on the Xbox One EU Megaserver
    "Casual" player from Finland who enjoys questing and dumb builds even after well over 1000 CP levels and 4000+ hours. A fan of Argonians, Goats and Elk. Also a massive Otaku (MAL Profile).
    "Following the meta makes you a sheep. That's why I'm a goat: I go in the opposite direction and make use of the things the sheep cannot." - Me, 2019
    Characters:
    Ben-Zu - Argonian MagDK DPS - EP (Main)
    Benzuth Telvanni - Dunmer MagSorc DPS - EP
    Haknir Head-Crusher - Nord DK Tank/Stam DPS - EP
    Delves-Deepest-Depths - Argonian StamBlade DPS - EP
    Raises-The-Dead - Argonian Mag Necromancer DPS7Healer - EP (Previously a Sorc healer, RIP)
    Bthuzdir Ynzavretz - Dwemer StamSorc DPS - AD (Dunmer in-game)
    Fafnir the Dragon - Nord Stam DK DPS - EP
    Bloodmage Thalnos - Breton MagBlade DPS - DC
    Finnis Wolfheart - Bosmer Stam Warden DPS - EP
    Gwyneth - Nord Warden Tank - EP
    Kud-Wazei Xeroicas - Argonian Mag Templar DPS/Tank - EP
    Barkskin Ben-Zhu - Argonian Warden Healer - EP (Alternate version of main)
    Xal-Vakka Xeroicas - Argonian DK Healer - EP
    Jaree-Shei the Wamasu - Argonian Sorcerer Tank - EP
    Gwennen Ereloth - Snow Elf Mag Warden DPS - EP (Dunmer in-game)
    Friedrich der Grosse - Imperial Nightblade Tank - EP
    Warfarin - Altmer Nightblade Healer - EP
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    Benzux wrote: »
    Benzux wrote: »
    It takes the exact same amount of time for you to write "Looking for X" in group chat as it does for you to whisper someone "Can you give me X?". Heck, I'd even say it takes less time for you to write in group chat, since you don't have to first find and click on a groupmate's name/write it out in the command.

    The difference is that the former comes off as neutral and polite, while the latter - as has been expressed many times by multiple people in this thread - can come off as invasive and rude.

    Worried that people will forget by the time the dungeons ends, or leave the group immediately after the final boss dies? Say it right before the final boss, then. I've seen people do this numerous times, and as someone with goldfish memory, it does help in remembering what people want.

    Worried that someone will just leave group without saying anything anyway, even after you see they got something you desired? Then the outcome is very likely the exact same as it would have been if you whispered the person directly: They want to keep that piece of loot to themselves, and are fully entitled to do so.

    I disagree. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve regrouped with someone and traveled to a wayshrine to trade gear (give or receive) after we all left a dungeon. That’s the time we have to sit back and scroll through logs of what dropped. I’d say it’s rare that anyone cares about a specific gear piece, and asking is the only way to find out. Anyone is free to keep the gear they need, but I welcome any whispers even if I’ve already left group because chances are I’m on my way to decon the junk they’re asking for.

    As for declaring it at the beginning, that works ok if you’re after 1-2 specific things. Nobody is going to write (or read) a paragraph on which pieces you could make work if you adjusted a build around them. It’s more of a “Oh that piece dropped instead, I think I could use that if you don’t need it”.

    I'm... not quite sure what you're referring to with the first half of that. What do you disagree with? That it takes the same amount of time to write two slightly different versions of the same message? I didn't mention the habit of linking everything you get at the end on the chance that someone is looking for something, I was specifically talking about situations where someone first says that they're looking for something, before anything gets linked. People leaving dungeons "too quickly" is a different thing entirely.

    If I'm looking for multiple pieces of a set (especially body pieces) from a dungeon, I tend to farm "on my own" by relying on my own loot drops, and only really start asking once I know I only need a couple more pieces. Or, then I simply say "Looking for *insert set name here*" without specifying any pieces. This also works if you need specific pieces, but can be flexible by swapping some pieces out, so you don't need to write multiple paragraphs - many times in such cases I've simply said that I'm looking for a set and just take whatever pieces others offer me. If I get lucky, I get the pieces I need/can swap out, and if not, then at least it's a bit of free gold from selling the items I don't need.

    Like my original point was, there is an easy way to ask politely about sharing loot that doesn't involve stalking other people's drops that they aren't willingly sharing with the use of an addon. If someone doesn't share even when everyone is being nice and polite, then they surely would not have done so in any other situation either, and everyone can move on with their lives.

    Or, now hear me out, you can open your eyes to the fact that very few players would willingly choose to take a longer, more inefficient, and downright tedious approach to loot drops. No one is hurting you by seeing your drops, literally in any way. If anything, it is an opportunity for you to make gold depending on the drop. Demanding that people stop using addons to quickly sort out what gear they still need and from whom is so childish. Imagine you only have 1-2 hours to play ESO on any given day, and you need to farm out specific pieces of a set. That player is not going to want to take literally 2-3 times as long to farm the gear (which can already take dozens of hours mind you) by not using lootlog.

    If you were in line at the DMV for 2 hours, and you finally got your ticket called and the moment you arrive the person says that "I don't like tickets that start with 7," and they skip you entirely. You would be angry at the injustice of having some arbitrary person wasting your time for NO reason. Same deal with loot logs. They are better at tracking gear that you need to farm in literally every measurable way. It is more direct, efficient, time saving, and courteous since only one player needs to bother checking their loot drops versus the entire group.
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
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    I'm currently starting up on PC again. Wonder if I'll encounter this. Hope I do, saves me the trouble of tracking all the crap I get in dungeons.
    ID: YourACasul

    PSN:
    CP 1500 Stamden (Retired)
    CP 1500 Magsorc (Retired)

    PC:
    CP 800 Heathcro (Active)
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    newtinmpls wrote: »
    HappyDan wrote: »
    Had same issue.
    Was farming for Bani and someone got an Ice staff from a chest I wrote at the start of the dungeon I'm looking for any bani weapons.
    So at the end of the dungeon I see the dude doesn't say anything so I whisper him, hey mate do you need the bani frost stick? He says no but since I looked in his pocket he will bound it and just ignore me.
    As someone who farmed ice reach for a bit and have this kid who will never ever use it say it kinda pissed me off

    I grant you kudos for politely asking at the start of the dungeon.

    However just because you asked does not mean that you are in anyway entitled to it.

    Yes, it's frustrating to know that "someone has it".

    You still are not entitled to it.

    It isn't the behavior of the person asking that needs to be examined. It is the behavior of the person ASKED that needs to be judged. I would actually prefer that the person who responded to the query in that manner go play another game and not come back here. These are the people who contribute to a toxic community.
    Edited by Elsonso on April 24, 2021 4:11PM
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    Best summary of Update 35: "SAY NO TO MUSTARD IN YOUR DOUGHNUT !" - pklemming, August 9, 2022.

    ><)))*>

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus
  • Benzux
    Benzux
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    Benzux wrote: »
    Benzux wrote: »
    It takes the exact same amount of time for you to write "Looking for X" in group chat as it does for you to whisper someone "Can you give me X?". Heck, I'd even say it takes less time for you to write in group chat, since you don't have to first find and click on a groupmate's name/write it out in the command.

    The difference is that the former comes off as neutral and polite, while the latter - as has been expressed many times by multiple people in this thread - can come off as invasive and rude.

    Worried that people will forget by the time the dungeons ends, or leave the group immediately after the final boss dies? Say it right before the final boss, then. I've seen people do this numerous times, and as someone with goldfish memory, it does help in remembering what people want.

    Worried that someone will just leave group without saying anything anyway, even after you see they got something you desired? Then the outcome is very likely the exact same as it would have been if you whispered the person directly: They want to keep that piece of loot to themselves, and are fully entitled to do so.

    I disagree. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve regrouped with someone and traveled to a wayshrine to trade gear (give or receive) after we all left a dungeon. That’s the time we have to sit back and scroll through logs of what dropped. I’d say it’s rare that anyone cares about a specific gear piece, and asking is the only way to find out. Anyone is free to keep the gear they need, but I welcome any whispers even if I’ve already left group because chances are I’m on my way to decon the junk they’re asking for.

    As for declaring it at the beginning, that works ok if you’re after 1-2 specific things. Nobody is going to write (or read) a paragraph on which pieces you could make work if you adjusted a build around them. It’s more of a “Oh that piece dropped instead, I think I could use that if you don’t need it”.

    I'm... not quite sure what you're referring to with the first half of that. What do you disagree with? That it takes the same amount of time to write two slightly different versions of the same message? I didn't mention the habit of linking everything you get at the end on the chance that someone is looking for something, I was specifically talking about situations where someone first says that they're looking for something, before anything gets linked. People leaving dungeons "too quickly" is a different thing entirely.

    If I'm looking for multiple pieces of a set (especially body pieces) from a dungeon, I tend to farm "on my own" by relying on my own loot drops, and only really start asking once I know I only need a couple more pieces. Or, then I simply say "Looking for *insert set name here*" without specifying any pieces. This also works if you need specific pieces, but can be flexible by swapping some pieces out, so you don't need to write multiple paragraphs - many times in such cases I've simply said that I'm looking for a set and just take whatever pieces others offer me. If I get lucky, I get the pieces I need/can swap out, and if not, then at least it's a bit of free gold from selling the items I don't need.

    Like my original point was, there is an easy way to ask politely about sharing loot that doesn't involve stalking other people's drops that they aren't willingly sharing with the use of an addon. If someone doesn't share even when everyone is being nice and polite, then they surely would not have done so in any other situation either, and everyone can move on with their lives.

    Or, now hear me out, you can open your eyes to the fact that very few players would willingly choose to take a longer, more inefficient, and downright tedious approach to loot drops. No one is hurting you by seeing your drops, literally in any way. If anything, it is an opportunity for you to make gold depending on the drop. Demanding that people stop using addons to quickly sort out what gear they still need and from whom is so childish. Imagine you only have 1-2 hours to play ESO on any given day, and you need to farm out specific pieces of a set. That player is not going to want to take literally 2-3 times as long to farm the gear (which can already take dozens of hours mind you) by not using lootlog.

    If you were in line at the DMV for 2 hours, and you finally got your ticket called and the moment you arrive the person says that "I don't like tickets that start with 7," and they skip you entirely. You would be angry at the injustice of having some arbitrary person wasting your time for NO reason. Same deal with loot logs. They are better at tracking gear that you need to farm in literally every measurable way. It is more direct, efficient, time saving, and courteous since only one player needs to bother checking their loot drops versus the entire group.

    The problems that people have with the addon have been said multiple times in this thread, so I'm not going to repeat them.

    I literally explained in my first comment that it takes the exact same amount of time for you to ask about a piece of gear in group chat than it does to pester someone for it specifically after you've stalked their drops. It doesn't matter who is using the addon and who is not, if someone gets a piece of gear and doesn't want to part with it, then that's that. You seeing they've gotten it doesn't change that fact, and, like has been expressed by others already, them knowing you've seen it without their willingness may even lower your chances of getting said item.

    But alright, I'll imagine that I'm farming for a piece of gear from a dungeon. I spend an hour farming and see that someone got the drop I wanted. I ask them for it, they decline, wanting to keep it, I move on with my life. In the exact same situation, but without the addon, I don't know that my groupmate got the drop I was looking for, and they don't say anything because they want to keep it, even if I have asked about it in group chat, we all part ways and I move on in my life. In both situations, I spent an hour farming, and will likely need to spend more time to do so. Whether you're using an addon to see other people's drops does not affect how long you'll need to farm for something, because the people don't change. And, again, based on the responses to this thread, you might even obtain what you're looking for faster and more efficiently if you didn't use the addon.

    Once again, my point was that you can avoid these sorts of situations and giving other people bad experiences (as has been described in this thread both by people against the addon and those who are for it) by doing the simplest thing of changing how you ask about gear. I'm not a fan of the idea of the addon personally, but if you insist on using it, go ahead. Just remember that other people might not like it if you snoop around in their things.
    BenzuxGamer - Xbox One since day 1 - CP 1500+
    Guildmaster of the Sacrificial Warriors, one of the oldest and most member-orientated Guilds on the Xbox One EU Megaserver
    "Casual" player from Finland who enjoys questing and dumb builds even after well over 1000 CP levels and 4000+ hours. A fan of Argonians, Goats and Elk. Also a massive Otaku (MAL Profile).
    "Following the meta makes you a sheep. That's why I'm a goat: I go in the opposite direction and make use of the things the sheep cannot." - Me, 2019
    Characters:
    Ben-Zu - Argonian MagDK DPS - EP (Main)
    Benzuth Telvanni - Dunmer MagSorc DPS - EP
    Haknir Head-Crusher - Nord DK Tank/Stam DPS - EP
    Delves-Deepest-Depths - Argonian StamBlade DPS - EP
    Raises-The-Dead - Argonian Mag Necromancer DPS7Healer - EP (Previously a Sorc healer, RIP)
    Bthuzdir Ynzavretz - Dwemer StamSorc DPS - AD (Dunmer in-game)
    Fafnir the Dragon - Nord Stam DK DPS - EP
    Bloodmage Thalnos - Breton MagBlade DPS - DC
    Finnis Wolfheart - Bosmer Stam Warden DPS - EP
    Gwyneth - Nord Warden Tank - EP
    Kud-Wazei Xeroicas - Argonian Mag Templar DPS/Tank - EP
    Barkskin Ben-Zhu - Argonian Warden Healer - EP (Alternate version of main)
    Xal-Vakka Xeroicas - Argonian DK Healer - EP
    Jaree-Shei the Wamasu - Argonian Sorcerer Tank - EP
    Gwennen Ereloth - Snow Elf Mag Warden DPS - EP (Dunmer in-game)
    Friedrich der Grosse - Imperial Nightblade Tank - EP
    Warfarin - Altmer Nightblade Healer - EP
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    Elsonso wrote: »

    It isn't the behavior of the person asking that needs to be examined. It is the behavior of the person ASKED that needs to be judged. I would actually prefer that the person who responded to the query in that manner go play another game and not come back here. These are the people who contribute to a toxic community.

    If you are saying in a given interaction between two people, that only one side "needs to be examined" then that looks a lot like bias to me.

    I do agree that people in general ought to be polite and gentle with each other. In this thread we could both cite examples of people on BOTH sides being unkind.
    Benzux wrote: »
    [I'll imagine that I'm farming for a piece of gear from a dungeon. I spend an hour farming and see that someone got the drop I wanted. I ask them for it, they decline, wanting to keep it, I move on with my life. In the exact same situation, but without the addon, I don't know that my groupmate got the drop I was looking for, and they don't say anything because they want to keep it, even if I have asked about it in group chat, we all part ways and I move on in my life.

    <slight snippage>

    Once again, my point was that you can avoid these sorts of situations and giving other people bad experiences (as has been described in this thread both by people against the addon and those who are for it) by doing the simplest thing of changing how you ask about gear. I'm not a fan of the idea of the addon personally, but if you insist on using it, go ahead. Just remember that other people might not like it if you snoop around in their things.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    newtinmpls wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »

    It isn't the behavior of the person asking that needs to be examined. It is the behavior of the person ASKED that needs to be judged. I would actually prefer that the person who responded to the query in that manner go play another game and not come back here. These are the people who contribute to a toxic community.

    If you are saying in a given interaction between two people, that only one side "needs to be examined" then that looks a lot like bias to me.

    That would be fair. I am definitely biased against the person who is acting out. The other party was not. I am serious when I say that, in that exchange, my preference would be for them to move onto a new game. Really, I am. The response was appalling. No community needs people like that. The response was much more toxic than the request and was totally unwarranted. As told in the story. I wouldn't lift a finger to stop them if they decided to leave, especially if they decided to continue doing it.

    In other scenarios, the requester might be the toxic one, but that is not the case in this one.

    Now, I doubt that the story unfolded exactly as described, but that does not matter. As with all anecdotal stories like this, it is now a hypothetical situation. I hope that no one in the community would actually choose to respond in that manner to a polite request.



    Edited by Elsonso on April 25, 2021 6:35PM
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    Best summary of Update 35: "SAY NO TO MUSTARD IN YOUR DOUGHNUT !" - pklemming, August 9, 2022.

    ><)))*>

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    Elsonso wrote: »

    In other scenarios, the requester might be the toxic one, but that is not the case in this one.

    <snippage>

    Now, I doubt that the story unfolded exactly as described, but that does not matter.

    To address the second point first, having accurate information about the conversation does matter.

    To address the point of "toxic" behavior, I think it's important to define it.

    Telling someone (essentially) that "I'm so creeped out by the invasion of my privacy that I'm absolutely never going to react well to it" and then blocking them is not inherently toxic.

    Toxic is verbal abuse, toxic is insulting, harassing or pursuing a conversation that is clearly not welcome. At it's base the conversation inherently goes:

    Person who want's the thing: "Peekaboo, I SEE you, and I SEE that you have the thing; gimmie gimmie gimmie"

    Person who has the thing: "Oooh Gross, get away from me you perv"

    (yes, I'm aware that in both cases there are folks who are much more polite than this - the point is - for an already "sore" point, it's always going to sound worse - on both sides - than it is).

    My point is that regardless of how polite or lacking someone is, the "one exchange" is inherently NOT harassment because it's only one exchange. In the "conversation" above if EITHER party goes on whispering, insulting, begging, threatening, listing "all the things you can't have" or "all the reasons I should get it" THEN it BECOMES toxic.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Imryll
    Imryll
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    Could the API be adjusted so that you only see the loot of other mod users? Using it yourself would seem to imply consent to others seeing your drops.
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    you really have no right to criticize other people for trying to make a painful grind much less time consuming.

    While I agree with you that this is not a malicious feature, I disagree that someone does not have the right to criticize others for doing such things. It is the way they responded that seems to be malicious by design and that is what is unfortunate.

    Heck, since we can trade the gear it is a valuable feature. I like this design vs having to roll for a piece of gear, then still having someone ask you to trade it to them because they did not get anything. In the few short months, I have been in ESO I have not seen any issues with this.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    newtinmpls wrote: »
    To address the point of "toxic" behavior, I think it's important to define it.

    Yes. Probably. Toxic is not harassment, but harassment is toxic.

    The exchange where the person was asked about a drop and then responded that they would now destroy it is toxic. It is not harassment, but it is toxic.

    There are a few in-game behaviors that are toxic, without necessarily rising to the level of being harassment. ZOS may not be able to do anything about them, but that does not mean they can't have a bad impact.
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    Best summary of Update 35: "SAY NO TO MUSTARD IN YOUR DOUGHNUT !" - pklemming, August 9, 2022.

    ><)))*>

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »



    Now, I doubt that the story unfolded exactly as described, but that does not matter. As with all anecdotal stories like this, it is now a hypothetical situation. I hope that no one in the community would actually choose to respond in that manner to a polite request.



    I wish I was exaggerating my friend.
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