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Can we get at least a token of apology?
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »They need to assign the Crown Store Devs to the rest of the game. Never seen that broken for more than a few hours.
Been said, but the request is a fantasy. That said, what we should all get is a free patch (3 months) of ESO +. They won't, but it would be reasonable. End of the day, that is my objective loss. My ESO+ is barely being used this patch because the game doesnt work. Crashed more in the last 3 weeks than I have the last 3 years, and I really havent been playing much.
hello games is the company that makes no mans sky and they have been making a lot of updates to no mans sky for 4 years now to make good on what they said about the game when they sold it, and have not charged any more, zero
I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Was that suppose to be directed at what I wrote?
I think their point is that No Mans Sky has not charged a single penny with (I think) 3 updates a year for the past 4 years. When the game launched there was a lot of anger by the consumers because the game was falsely promoted...to a degree. Hello Games has since then turned the game around and won back much if not most of the player base and never charged a single cent more.
Where as Zenimax will not even reimburse us for half a month of ESO+, Hello Games has given out free content all year long for three years. On top of that, they do not have a monetization plan outside of the initial purchase. With only box sales alone, giving out free content for 3 years, they are still making a ton of money, and all indicators show that they do so with a larger team than ESO. Makes me wonder where our money is going, because it sure does not seem like its going into fixing what we have already purchased.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
But do you know why it wasn't cooked? That is the wrench in things. Is it because they took it out of the fryer early or maybe the sensor isn't working so the oil didn't get hot enough? Could be any number of things for our undercooked chicken and with the game the number of things is could be is much much larger.
Go reread my above posts again. I have already dismantled your comment in a previous post.2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
But do you know why it wasn't cooked? That is the wrench in things. Is it because they took it out of the fryer early or maybe the sensor isn't working so the oil didn't get hot enough? Could be any number of things for our undercooked chicken and with the game the number of things is could be is much much larger.
Go reread my above posts again. I have already dismantled your comment in a previous post.
You walked back on it and my point still remains. Knowing there is a problem in no way equates to knowing what is causing the problem or what is being done to correct the problem. The thread was diverted.
Now about the main issue that was first brought up in the thread. I don't think they need to give us anything as penance for the way the game is playing right now. The game isn't broken for many playing the game. The game is having some issues and we the players have to decide for ourselves do we want to continue to play or not. For me it isn't bad performance wise at all. One of my guilds spent about three hours learning the mechanics of a vet trial and we only had two players disconnect. One of the two disconnected multiple times but he was also losing connection in Discord so something else was going on with him. I also played in Cyrodiil for about an hour with no disconnects and no noticeable lag. I still hate the healing changes but that is a separate issue. I understand the game is giving other players all kinds of problems and I really hope the game becomes better for them. Claiming the game is broken and comparing it to raw chicken isn't a fair comparison. Nobody could (or should) eat raw chicken.
While I don't think we need some kind of compensation for the state of the game I would appreciate more feedback in what is being done. Could be a topic thread we can't post in that simply says this week we worked on the following issues and have or have not made progress towards a solution. That would work great for me.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
FangOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
If you compare game coding to a piece of meat who only requires to be cooked/fried, I'm not sure it's worth discussing it with you
those examples are just way too far apart
For game breaking bugs to persist for weeks on end is proof the team is lacking in skill/under staffed. No other MMO of this size would ever allow things like this to persist. For god sakes Cyrodiil has been in shambles for literally years! How can you defend that?
Perfect example is the recently fixed light attack bug. Week 1 of the PTS it was reported. Five weeks go by and it was never fixed. How is that acceptable.
This isn't a one time occurrence. This game has been broken in many ways for many years. You cannot defend them.
They don't even apologize to their paying customers about how bad their game is running! Look at the announcement. Not a single apology; which we all defiantly deserve.
I'm not looking for compensation or anything like that. I want ESO to run like it's being developed by a AAA studio, with AAA money that we know they are making hand over fist. I love this game, I want it to be the best it can be.8 -
there won't be any "tokens of apology" unless it bring more money. and yeah, free money for everyone would become an arrow in the knee of economy.2
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twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
If you compare game coding to a piece of meat who only requires to be cooked/fried, I'm not sure it's worth discussing it with you those examples are just way too far apart
For game breaking bugs to persist for weeks on end is proof the team is lacking in skill/under staffed. No other MMO of this size would ever allow things like this to persist. For god sakes Cyrodiil has been in shambles for literally years! How can you defend that?
Perfect example is the recently fixed light attack bug. Week 1 of the PTS it was reported. Five weeks go by and it was never fixed. How is that acceptable.
This isn't a one time occurrence. This game has been broken in many ways for many years. You cannot defend them.
They don't even apologize to their paying customers about how bad their game is running! Look at the announcement. Not a single apology; which we all defiantly deserve.
I'm not looking for compensation or anything like that. I want ESO to run like it's being developed by a AAA studio, with AAA money that we know they are making hand over fist. I love this game, I want it to be the best it can be.
After so many bugs were swept under the rug for so many chapters/DLCs/patches over the years since launch - it's possible that the current state of the game ALREADY reflects 'the best that it can be' anymore, without a basement-to-attic rewrite.The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.1 -
CrimsonGTX✭✭✭That's asking for a lot there which isn't realistic from their point of view. With that said I don't think ZOS ever gave the community stuff for their errors(maybe a pet?), which is surprising coming from this game...because I play BDO when I'm away from ESO and even they apologize and give everyone stuff when they screw up
Sorc & Warden Main - PC NA(CP 1k+) & Xbox NA (CP 1k+)1 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I finally made a post that got a little attention! YAY!
OBVIOUSLY ZoS has to make the game work. What I am saying is that BEYOND that, they have to do something nice, because people realize they have been disrespected by having been given a product that was not fit for sale.
Some sort of relatively huge token would make a lot of difference to a lot of people, so we would feel like we are valued.
Someone suggested a free month of subscription. That's a great idea. Something, anything, that shows "We want to make up for the *** we did."
Again, OBVIOUSLY they have to literally fix it.
If you are one of those dudes with no feelings wham bam thank you man, then fine, they fix it and you go back to being happy. The rest of us wants a little more than that. And we aare probably MORE pragmatic that the wham-bham-thankyou-maam "Just fix it" people. Because we realize this 5 year old engine being run by, what, like 6 devs(?) is never going to run the way it should.
So because I don't agree with you on compensation, I have no feelings.?0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
But do you know why it wasn't cooked? That is the wrench in things. Is it because they took it out of the fryer early or maybe the sensor isn't working so the oil didn't get hot enough? Could be any number of things for our undercooked chicken and with the game the number of things is could be is much much larger.
Go reread my above posts again. I have already dismantled your comment in a previous post.
You walked back on it and my point still remains. Knowing there is a problem in no way equates to knowing what is causing the problem or what is being done to correct the problem. The thread was diverted.
Now about the main issue that was first brought up in the thread. I don't think they need to give us anything as penance for the way the game is playing right now. The game isn't broken for many playing the game. The game is having some issues and we the players have to decide for ourselves do we want to continue to play or not. For me it isn't bad performance wise at all. One of my guilds spent about three hours learning the mechanics of a vet trial and we only had two players disconnect. One of the two disconnected multiple times but he was also losing connection in Discord so something else was going on with him. I also played in Cyrodiil for about an hour with no disconnects and no noticeable lag. I still hate the healing changes but that is a separate issue. I understand the game is giving other players all kinds of problems and I really hope the game becomes better for them. Claiming the game is broken and comparing it to raw chicken isn't a fair comparison. Nobody could (or should) eat raw chicken.
While I don't think we need some kind of compensation for the state of the game I would appreciate more feedback in what is being done. Could be a topic thread we can't post in that simply says this week we worked on the following issues and have or have not made progress towards a solution. That would work great for me.
I never walked back anything I said. I have stated numerous times now that its 100% irrelevant for the customer to know WHY the product is broken, all that matters is that the company fix/repair the product in a timely manner, or refund the customer.
As for your second paragraph, smart companies who intend to maintain their customer base will do two things. Fix the problem, AND "make it right" to the customer (in this example by refunding, partial refunding, or some sort of token of apology". Actions speak louder than words.
I have already given a plethora of examples earlier in this thread, I suggest you go read them.4 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.. make the apology in a form of free crown crates (at least 6 this time, please,) or a cool apex mount, pet or costume as consolation. Yeah?2 -
Petoften✭✭✭G1Countdown wrote: »
I'm suggesting give everyone a huge present. Something really big. "Thank you for sticking with us even when we mess stuff up. We love you."
Something like 4k free crowns. Or 1mil in-game gold. Or SOMETHING big and generic, that individuals can use for whatever it is they like.
This is wrong on so many levels. I am 100% against this and hope that this company does not do this. The solution is not to make a bad product but bribe the customers with incentives. The only solution is to fix the product. Hold the company to high standards. Don't lower your standards.
He didn't suggest compensation instead of fixing bugs, it's either fix bugs with compensation or without.0 -
SammyKhajit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nice idea but need to make noise on ESO social media like Twitter. They rarely address their anything on forum except to delete posts/threads.5 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As other have said, I don't even need a token... if someone from ZOS just *addressed* the issues and the grief they've caused players, that would be enough. Just "hey, we realize stuff's broken and apologize for the frustrations it's causing. We're working on fixing things and hope to have things more stable as quickly as we can".
Addressing that there are issues and that they are being worked on is all I want. Sincere apologies and acts of accountability go a long, looooooooong way.
Instead, it seems like we're getting the opposite... I haven't seen a Community Manager on the forums in what feels like months. The only interaction I see between ZOS and the forums these days seems to be editing posts and posts talking about that and telling people to be nice.2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
But do you know why it wasn't cooked? That is the wrench in things. Is it because they took it out of the fryer early or maybe the sensor isn't working so the oil didn't get hot enough? Could be any number of things for our undercooked chicken and with the game the number of things is could be is much much larger.
Go reread my above posts again. I have already dismantled your comment in a previous post.
You walked back on it and my point still remains. Knowing there is a problem in no way equates to knowing what is causing the problem or what is being done to correct the problem. The thread was diverted.
Now about the main issue that was first brought up in the thread. I don't think they need to give us anything as penance for the way the game is playing right now. The game isn't broken for many playing the game. The game is having some issues and we the players have to decide for ourselves do we want to continue to play or not. For me it isn't bad performance wise at all. One of my guilds spent about three hours learning the mechanics of a vet trial and we only had two players disconnect. One of the two disconnected multiple times but he was also losing connection in Discord so something else was going on with him. I also played in Cyrodiil for about an hour with no disconnects and no noticeable lag. I still hate the healing changes but that is a separate issue. I understand the game is giving other players all kinds of problems and I really hope the game becomes better for them. Claiming the game is broken and comparing it to raw chicken isn't a fair comparison. Nobody could (or should) eat raw chicken.
While I don't think we need some kind of compensation for the state of the game I would appreciate more feedback in what is being done. Could be a topic thread we can't post in that simply says this week we worked on the following issues and have or have not made progress towards a solution. That would work great for me.
I never walked back anything I said. I have stated numerous times now that its 100% irrelevant for the customer to know WHY the product is broken, all that matters is that the company fix/repair the product in a timely manner, or refund the customer.
As for your second paragraph, smart companies who intend to maintain their customer base will do two things. Fix the problem, AND "make it right" to the customer (in this example by refunding, partial refunding, or some sort of token of apology". Actions speak louder than words.
I have already given a plethora of examples earlier in this thread, I suggest you go read them.
Okay I agree it is 100% irrelevant that the players know why something is broken. It was taken farther than that though. The leap was made from we know it is broken to ESO employees are incompetent. That is when comparing the game to cooking chicken came to be. I agree the game has problems that need addressed. I assume they are being addressed and it takes time to recreate the problems then track down the cause and provide a solution. I'm also guessing if the employees were not more than just competent they wouldn't have landed the game to start with.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »As other have said, I don't even need a token... if someone from ZOS just *addressed* the issues and the grief they've caused players, that would be enough. Just "hey, we realize stuff's broken and apologize for the frustrations it's causing. We're working on fixing things and hope to have things more stable as quickly as we can".
Addressing that there are issues and that they are being worked on is all I want. Sincere apologies and acts of accountability go a long, looooooooong way.
Instead, it seems like we're getting the opposite... I haven't seen a Community Manager on the forums in what feels like months. The only interaction I see between ZOS and the forums these days seems to be editing posts and posts talking about that and telling people to be nice.
Exactly 2 years ago we had the same discussion, when the game was in an unacceptable state.
ZOS just doesn't care.3 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »
Customers also don't know what the secret ingredients are in Colonel Sanders chicken, but they sure as heck can tell if the chicken is cooked or not.
We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working.
But do you know why it wasn't cooked? That is the wrench in things. Is it because they took it out of the fryer early or maybe the sensor isn't working so the oil didn't get hot enough? Could be any number of things for our undercooked chicken and with the game the number of things is could be is much much larger.
Go reread my above posts again. I have already dismantled your comment in a previous post.
You walked back on it and my point still remains. Knowing there is a problem in no way equates to knowing what is causing the problem or what is being done to correct the problem. The thread was diverted.
Now about the main issue that was first brought up in the thread. I don't think they need to give us anything as penance for the way the game is playing right now. The game isn't broken for many playing the game. The game is having some issues and we the players have to decide for ourselves do we want to continue to play or not. For me it isn't bad performance wise at all. One of my guilds spent about three hours learning the mechanics of a vet trial and we only had two players disconnect. One of the two disconnected multiple times but he was also losing connection in Discord so something else was going on with him. I also played in Cyrodiil for about an hour with no disconnects and no noticeable lag. I still hate the healing changes but that is a separate issue. I understand the game is giving other players all kinds of problems and I really hope the game becomes better for them. Claiming the game is broken and comparing it to raw chicken isn't a fair comparison. Nobody could (or should) eat raw chicken.
While I don't think we need some kind of compensation for the state of the game I would appreciate more feedback in what is being done. Could be a topic thread we can't post in that simply says this week we worked on the following issues and have or have not made progress towards a solution. That would work great for me.
I never walked back anything I said. I have stated numerous times now that its 100% irrelevant for the customer to know WHY the product is broken, all that matters is that the company fix/repair the product in a timely manner, or refund the customer.
As for your second paragraph, smart companies who intend to maintain their customer base will do two things. Fix the problem, AND "make it right" to the customer (in this example by refunding, partial refunding, or some sort of token of apology". Actions speak louder than words.
I have already given a plethora of examples earlier in this thread, I suggest you go read them.
Okay I agree it is 100% irrelevant that the players know why something is broken. It was taken farther than that though. The leap was made from we know it is broken to ESO employees are incompetent. That is when comparing the game to cooking chicken came to be. I agree the game has problems that need addressed. I assume they are being addressed and it takes time to recreate the problems then track down the cause and provide a solution. I'm also guessing if the employees were not more than just competent they wouldn't have landed the game to start with.
For the thirds time, go re-read my posts. I never said they were incompetent. In fact this is what I said (you can go re-read it above).
"We don't need to see the code to see that it's not working in game, as evidence of all the crashes, bugs, anomalies etc etc etc that did not exist pre-patch. Now, this alone does not suggest that the current coders do not know what they are doing, but what we can establish is that what they ARE doing is not working."2 -
ClawOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭Guys relax. The issues affecting purchases in the ESO store have been resolved. Thank you for your patience!
2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Guys relax. The issues affecting purchases in the ESO store have been resolved. Thank you for your patience!
Right. When I saw that my first thought was "you have to be kidding me...they are literally trolling us now".2 -
ClawOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭As far as they're concerned they've said their piece and washed their hands of it. I guess we see what happens. I'm not holding my breath.2
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To fix the game after years of promising that it would be fixed would be the greatest token.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Spartabunny08 wrote: »Spartabunny08 wrote: »It's called compensation for failure... what is wrong with you people. This is common practice in most games of this nature.
What is wrong with me because my priority is getting the game fixed vs squabbling over something petty? If having my priorities properly set is considered crazy by those who prefer Zos give us 4k crowns and pretend it is an apology then so be it.
Must be new...
What an odd and curious statement in reply to a statement that makes fixing the game the priority.0