How Do Mac Users Feel About This?

Malkiv

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59187

Well, all users, really.

This will not affect current Mac users, of course, that are using Intel-based solutions. However, how does this kind of announcement make you feel in terms of support, or playability, or confidence, etc.?

Personally, I'm conflicted. I understand that it would be very difficult and time consuming, with no promise of an return. Sure, Firor mentions Stadia as a possible solution, but that makes me groan so hard. It kind of feels like, "Oh, hey, there's this shiny new gaming platform we have, you should use that for a massively subpar experience." What about when the Stadia goes the way of almost every other Google-launched service (looking at you Google+)?

Eedat

A lot of things are going to lose Mac support and it's really Mac's decision. Mac loves to force exclusivity. Expect to lose support for practically all games except maybe new triple A titles for a long time and a lot permanently if you buy an Arm Mac

Starlock

One of the major reasons I am primarily a console gamer is because the standardized hardware more or less forces developers to conform to that standard given the market power consoles command. You don't have to worry about whether or not something will run or whether or not it will continue to be supported.

There was a time I considered switching to ESO on the Mac, but I was confident that something like this would eventually happen, so I didn't. They really should offer a way to transfer accounts for Mac users, but they won't.

Shewolf075

Malkiv wrote: »

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59187

Personally, I'm conflicted. I understand that it would be very difficult and time consuming, with no promise of an return. Sure, Firor mentions Stadia as a possible solution, but that makes me groan so hard. It kind of feels like, "Oh, hey, there's this shiny new gaming platform we have, you should use that for a massively subpar experience." What about when the Stadia goes the way of almost every other Google-launched service (looking at you Google+)?

Whilst I personally don't use Stadia and play on another cloud based service, it's good to put options out there so players can play the game they love. I would feel disappointed if my computer wasn't supported anymore. Having alternatives is nice.

Raideen

Mac users should not feel anything about it, they know what they are getting into when it comes to gaming. Mac has never been a solid gaming platform.

If mac users DO feel like getting upset or displaying emotion, they should put their focus at apple, not game companies. I 100% agree with Matt.

zaria

Kind of understand why ZoS decided not to port especially as both consoles run X86 amd cpu.
Expect most games who are not made on an engines who support lots of system like unity to not support arm mac.
And running ESO via an emulator would be an bad ides so bad that stadia sounds good.

Mac, well its the 4th time they switched cpu versions, originally it was the same Motorola cpu as Amiga used, then it was Powerpc, then intel x86 and now their own.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Just go buy some old Mac Pros and bob's your uncle. Mac like their users to upgrade far too often. Most of these choices are yes indeed for 'exclusive reasoning', but also so people just keep buying

I used to play ESO on my Imac when it first came out. It wasn't a very pleasant experience.

JPcrazysquirrel3

The main problem here is that you are trying to game on a Mac.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Also there is a topic from ZOS on the subject matter. They'll probably be closing this shortly as there seems to be too much drama on the forum at the moment anyways as almost all platforms are experiencing difficulties. Good luck Mac users may the Apple be with you.

Rasoma

This is not unexpected - the switch from Intel chipsets will be the death of many developers releasing software for Macs. Unless you have very deep pockets and have a large Mac userbase it’s not going to be worth the cost to switch to Universal code let alone support two chipsets for several years.

Those who have Macs and use them for gaming will simply keep those machines or sadly be forced eventually to purchase a Windows machine when (not if) Mac support gets pulled.

Malkiv

Eedat wrote: »

A lot of things are going to lose Mac support and it's really Mac's decision. Mac loves to force exclusivity. Expect to lose support for practically all games except maybe new triple A titles for a long time and a lot permanently if you buy an Arm Mac

Even knowing Apple business practices, it was quite a shock for me to learn they were introducing ARM-based solutions where Apple's Intel-based solutions have been very beneficial to the developers of prosumer software and hardware to be able to support multiple product marquees across multiple platforms.

I use many of these products in my every day life, but I do not own a Mac. Many of my clients do own a Mac. Many of the people I network with own a Mac. Some own a Mac personally and use a PC at the office, or vice-versa. I am worried now that the workflow we have integrated into our daily routines will be severely disrupted. This announcement by Firor reinforces some of my fears and concerns.

Starlock wrote: »

One of the major reasons I am primarily a console gamer is because the standardized hardware more or less forces developers to conform to that standard given the market power consoles command. You don't have to worry about whether or not something will run or whether or not it will continue to be supported.

That's definitely where console gaming shines, and how it rose to prominence in the gaming market.

richo262

Malkiv wrote: »

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59187

Well, all users, really.

This will not affect current Mac users, of course, that are using Intel-based solutions. However, how does this kind of announcement make you feel in terms of support, or playability, or confidence, etc.?

Personally, I'm conflicted. I understand that it would be very difficult and time consuming, with no promise of an return. Sure, Firor mentions Stadia as a possible solution, but that makes me groan so hard. It kind of feels like, "Oh, hey, there's this shiny new gaming platform we have, you should use that for a massively subpar experience." What about when the Stadia goes the way of almost every other Google-launched service (looking at you Google+)?

This a perfectly reasonable stance for ZOS. Apple chose to adopt ARM, and I'm sure they have their reasons, they are actually good little processors, basically smart phones, small, powerful, don't use much power, ideal even for most peoples general computing needs. However, this decision was made with full knowledge that it would ruin compatibility with software that is not ARM compatible.

Apple made the choice to tell their customers, their future is ARM if they remain a customer.
Matt made the choice to tell ESO customers, if they choose that future they won't have a great time with ESO, unless they use Stadia.

Matt got ahead of the problem and gave forewarning to anyone looking at buying these devices, much better than finding out down the road after buying a horribly overpriced Apple product that it doesn't run ESO. Furthermore, even if somebody did buy a horribly overpriced Apple product, they have Stadia.

If I was Matt, I'd have just posted this as my response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0QgBX4WFKQ

Kwoung

Apple is just returning to their roots, when they shunned Intel and had very few applications written for their platform, almost none of which were games. They were basically aimed at desktop publishing and video editing, which I find hard to believe they can return to using cell phone processors, so I have no clue what a MAC will be good for going forward, Social Media site browsing maybe?.

relentless_turnip

I totally get their stance on this and think it was quite ridiculous for apple to make this change and essentially put the pressure on game developers to cater for their users.

What does worry me is this: "It is a huge undertaking to port a product as old, large, and complex as ESO to a new CPU, with no certain outcome of success. Because of these factors, we will not be porting ESO to run on the new ARM-based Macs."

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

Renegader

Im not sure what everyone is talking about. I can play eso great on a mac

Malkiv

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

I agree on this. The way it was presented in felt - off.

Understanding Apple will be Apple - and that they make decisions based on what they think is best for their proprietary ecosystem - I just didn't like that Stadia was the only solution for Apple users looking to abandon their Intel-based Macs.

Starlock mentioned account transfers, which I think would be best-case scenario, with Stadia as a last resort for those that (for whatever reason may exist) do not want to - or can't - transfer to console.

It's too early to tell what the future will hold for Apple, developers on the ARM-based platform, and ZOS's plans to accommodate the Apple user base. At least Firor got out in front of it all with this statement, as satisfying or unsatisfying as some may receive it.

BlueRaven

Well.

“Blizzard announces World of Warcraft will run natively on Apple Silicon from day one”

https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/11/17/blizzard-world-of-warcraft-will-run-natively-on-apple-silicon-intel-big-sur-analysis/

And Gizmodo says the new apple chips are better then the intel ones...

https://gizmodo.com/the-macbook-air-was-a-fine-laptop-but-apples-m1-chip-m-1845671122

They even played games on it and did not have any issues. This seems more and more that ZOS is just lazy or is just continuing to do things on the cheap.

Also it’s just a short step right now between their current Mac support and no Mac support at all, really.

karekiz

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

Would you port a 6 year old MMO onto a platform with a tiny percentage of players? I dunno. I think it sounds like a waste of money, especially when that percentage of players already have the capability to log in <***Currently***>.


It actually reminds me of the old Mac EQ server when they swapped TO intel lol.

BlueRaven

karekiz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

Would you port a 6 year old MMO onto a platform with a tiny percentage of players? I dunno. I think it sounds like a waste of money, especially when that percentage of players already have the capability to log in <***Currently***>.


It actually reminds me of the old Mac EQ server when they swapped TO intel lol.

Blizzard does not seem to have a problem. And macs don’t run off of a unique server.

jaws343

karekiz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

Would you port a 6 year old MMO onto a platform with a tiny percentage of players? I dunno. I think it sounds like a waste of money, especially when that percentage of players already have the capability to log in <***Currently***>.


It actually reminds me of the old Mac EQ server when they swapped TO intel lol.

Yeah, the % of Mac players currently and the expected % of Mac players who may upgrade to a new machine have to factor into the decision for sure. Enhancing the game for the next console generation is a far more cost effective solution since the player bases are large and the likelihood of the playerbase also upgrading to the new machines is high, plus they get a chance to draw in new users in the next gen. It makes far more sense from a business perspective to cater support to the larger player population and potential than the smaller one.

SeaGtGruff

I play ESO primarily on a Windows 10 PC, but I also play it occasionally on a MacBook Air and it runs fine on that.

I've never been an Apple head, and have never liked the way Apple tries to force their users to constantly buy newer versions of their products, such as by gluing the batteries into iPhones because they want you to have to buy a new iPhone instead of simply replacing the battery in your old iPhone.

As long as my current MacBook Air doesn't die, and continues to run ESO just fine, I have no intentions of ever buying a new MacBook, so I'm okay with ZOS's decision on this. And who knows? They might decide to change their minds later on.

danno8

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I totally get their stance on this and think it was quite ridiculous for apple to make this change and essentially put the pressure on game developers to cater for their users.

What does worry me is this: "It is a huge undertaking to port a product as old, large, and complex as ESO to a new CPU, with no certain outcome of success. Because of these factors, we will not be porting ESO to run on the new ARM-based Macs."

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

Lol, yah probably instead of "old, large and complex as ESO" he should have said something like "robust, rich and sprawling". Gives a much better feel.

Ohtimbar

I couldn't care less. New arm-based Macs will be faster per watt, run cooler and integrate better into the broader Apple ecosystem. If I want to game I'll use a console.

Starlock

Raideen wrote: »

Mac users should not feel anything about it, they know what they are getting into when it comes to gaming. Mac has never been a solid gaming platform.

Eh, that's something of myth, to be honest. Current Macs can run almost anything that Windows can run if you set your hardware to boot up in or emulate Windows. I'm just too lazy to do that - or rather, I don't feel like paying for the license - so I stick to console for most games.

As BlueRaven points out, it's not that it's impossible to do a conversion. And considering this game has gambling revenue to draw from, they've frankly got no darned excuse as far as financing it goes. They just don't care enough to bother.

AgaTheGreat

Malkiv wrote: »

Well, all users, really.

I don't care.

NoMoreChillies

what advanatge does MAC have over PC?

katorga

Apple hardware lacks the cooling capacity to play demanding games.

That said, I have been through the motorola -> PowerPC -> Intel transitions, and it was very smooth. Rosetta was invisible and a remarkably fast. Apple is the only computer company capable of swapping out CPU architectures with any reasonable success. If you recall this was the direction MS wanted to go as well, Win 10 shipped with ARM versions.

As far as I can tell, Apple intends to offer equal or better performance for 1/6 the power draw of the Intel CPU's commonly used in their products. The problem for me is I currently use a mac for work and I require VMware or Parallels for x86 vm's and native unix capability of OSX. Mac is the most flexible platform for me. If you lose x86 virtuals going to ARM, then I have drop Mac and use windows machines for work.

LanteanPegasus

Malkiv wrote: »

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59187]Well, all users, really.

How it makes me feel? Totally indifferent with regards to my expectations towards ESO.

I never liked the marketing idea of Apple. Making people buy expensive things with the main purpose of showing off how special and cool and ahead of their times they are is bad enough. Making them buy the same thing over and over again despite the old one still being totally fine and working as intended (I-Phone) is just the kind of crappy consumerism I can't stand.

To me Apple is the equivalent of a sports car in the electronic world. I get the impression that 90 out of 100 people only buy it for their image.

I'm sure the other 10% have very valid reasons to use Apple devices, because those are ideal for specific needs in their jobs or hobbies. But those are victims now of the company's need to be even more of a "special snowflake", probably to cater to the feelings of the 90%.

So, sad as it is, if you buy an Apple you buy into that Apple philosophy, and I don't expect companies like ZOS to go out of their way (read: spending a lot of time and money) to cater to people that do so.
I actually think it shows care for their users that they put up the warning/put out the facts this early, and this clearly.

And at the end of the day - didn't Microsoft just buy Bethesda/ESO? I might have to rethink the customer service praise, maybe competition is the driving motif here, or maybe both, but I'll stand to all the other things I said. Still indifferent.

BlueRaven

jaws343 wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I understand their position here... But don't understand why they would refer to ESO in this way. The tone makes it sound like they don't believe it to be worth the effort. Diminishing performance only enforces these thoughts...
They probably didn't intend it to sound like this, but either way it's pretty worrying.

Would you port a 6 year old MMO onto a platform with a tiny percentage of players? I dunno. I think it sounds like a waste of money, especially when that percentage of players already have the capability to log in <***Currently***>.


It actually reminds me of the old Mac EQ server when they swapped TO intel lol.

Yeah, the % of Mac players currently and the expected % of Mac players who may upgrade to a new machine have to factor into the decision for sure. Enhancing the game for the next console generation is a far more cost effective solution since the player bases are large and the likelihood of the playerbase also upgrading to the new machines is high, plus they get a chance to draw in new users in the next gen. It makes far more sense from a business perspective to cater support to the larger player population and potential than the smaller one.

It’s not like the new chip will be an alternate chip forever. Apple will sunset intel chips for their own models. And upgrading to the new M1 chip will be unavoidable.

By not supporting the M1, ESO is basically saying they are stopping Mac support. (Not they had very good Mac support to begin with.)

Personally I am looking at upgrading when the iMac updates come out, as I use my Mac for work. If ESO does not want to come along with me, that will be ESO’s loss. And I am a day one subscriber who purchased the collectors edition.

Sylvermynx

I've never used anything Apple, never going to. Haven't ever been impressed with their pretense to "exclusive".

HappyElephant

This is the beginning of the end for me.
I already had one foot out the door anyways.
The Markath update has so many bugs that ZOS seems to be too busy to address.
And this on top of all the other issues I have with this game.