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Ring of the Pale Order should be restricted to solo play only.
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭[Snip]
When i reed thingth like this, i just see:
I do not understand anything, make my role be needed.
If you do nothing you always be not needed !
If you do, you do not care.
It is - 1 full set.
You can put 2+2+5+5 or this and 1 set breake.
There are already sets that heal 2 k - with no restriction. Or you can spam 1 skill less and put heal on rotation, and do this dps lost with dps set.
Or you can use 1 glyph of shielding with the same effect.
Where is a problem ?
For healers with 1 k HPS may be, normal healer with 10k hps will not even care. He always will be needed.
[Edited for bait]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 5, 2020 1:15PM1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imagine being that worried about what people in a PUG are wearing. You either play with a PUG or have expectations, not both, and it's essentially solo play, because you can't count on a tank having a taunt, or a healer not being just a very impatient DD, or a DD having a clue what they are doing.
And if it's not a PUG, as said above, use words.
I have rather good runs with pugs. Sure, occasionally, there are some that are not pulling their weight. But overall, good players.1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »
Being snarky, are we? I enjoy pugging as a healer. But beyond a hello, not many people say anything. I do a good job keeping everyone alive while helping dps, too. I'm sure once I see someone's health drop low and my heals are doing nothing, I'll catch on that they must be using the ring. But I sure blew a lot of Magicka spamming burst heals.
Most gear have animations of effects when they are being used. There's nothing wrong with asking for an animation / effect / even slight color change to indicate they are wearing it. It would be a good thing. And as someone mentioned, there are players who don't speak English in this game, too.
If someone health is not going up after one burst heal then you know and no need to spam it after that, and you used what, 2 combat prayers and one whatever class skill you use ? Not even the third of your magica bar. If you are pugging, then people are using strange sets and builds all over anyhow. Tanks with 14k health. DDs with 30k health. I main a healer. Not one pug knows what the gold olorime ring on the ground is. One ranged attacker is on the other side of the room, behind the tank, light attacking and spamming the matriarch just in case. The other one is pew pewing the boss standing behind my back. Not getting any buffs, any heals, must use rapid regen all the time. The ring is going to change things ? Well, yes, I hope, at least the pug will get some healing and I can swich to dps gear
I pug to practice , guild runs are too fast and smooth and you learn nothing, the bosses are melting. Pugs are fun ! And the ring is fine.
I guess your karma with pugs is much worse than mine. I often meet players who know what they are doing. And....Me, too, lol. I'm okay with the ring. I repeat. I'm okay with the ring. Just asking for some visual clue perhaps. Wouldn't that be helpful?1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »
Being snarky, are we? I enjoy pugging as a healer. But beyond a hello, not many people say anything. I do a good job keeping everyone alive while helping dps, too. I'm sure once I see someone's health drop low and my heals are doing nothing, I'll catch on that they must be using the ring. But I sure blew a lot of Magicka spamming burst heals.
Most gear have animations of effects when they are being used. There's nothing wrong with asking for an animation / effect / even slight color change to indicate they are wearing it. It would be a good thing. And as someone mentioned, there are players who don't speak English in this game, too.
If someone health is not going up after one burst heal then you know and no need to spam it after that, and you used what, 2 combat prayers and one whatever class skill you use ? Not even the third of your magica bar. If you are pugging, then people are using strange sets and builds all over anyhow. Tanks with 14k health. DDs with 30k health. I main a healer. Not one pug knows what the gold olorime ring on the ground is. One ranged attacker is on the other side of the room, behind the tank, light attacking and spamming the matriarch just in case. The other one is pew pewing the boss standing behind my back. Not getting any buffs, any heals, must use rapid regen all the time. The ring is going to change things ? Well, yes, I hope, at least the pug will get some healing and I can swich to dps gear I pug to practice , guild runs are too fast and smooth and you learn nothing, the bosses are melting. Pugs are fun ! And the ring is fine.
I guess your karma with pugs is much worse than mine. I often meet players who know what they are doing. And....Me, too, lol. I'm okay with the ring. I repeat. I'm okay with the ring. Just asking for some visual clue perhaps. Wouldn't that be helpful?
Visual effect on no heal can enter must be done. For vamp skill and this.
Just like black shine or something else. It will be very good solution and idea.
It even can help player who use it, by may be not turn off the effect before start fight.
+ some times HP bugs and you can not see it correct, so visual effect is really needed !1 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Imagine being that worried about what people in a PUG are wearing. You either play with a PUG or have expectations, not both, and it's essentially solo play, because you can't count on a tank having a taunt, or a healer not being just a very impatient DD, or a DD having a clue what they are doing.
And if it's not a PUG, as said above, use words.
I have rather good runs with pugs. Sure, occasionally, there are some that are not pulling their weight. But overall, good players.
I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm saying that one cannot and shouldn't expect them to be good. You can get me in your group and I'm not really good, lol
Anyway, I don't think that there will be that much people who have the ring and need outside healing for that to be a problem. Like, the ring means selfish build, selfish build means self-heals. 1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imagine being that worried about what people in a PUG are wearing. You either play with a PUG or have expectations, not both, and it's essentially solo play, because you can't count on a tank having a taunt, or a healer not being just a very impatient DD, or a DD having a clue what they are doing.
And if it's not a PUG, as said above, use words.
I have rather good runs with pugs. Sure, occasionally, there are some that are not pulling their weight. But overall, good players.
I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm saying that one cannot and shouldn't expect them to be good. You can get me in your group and I'm not really good, lol Anyway, I don't think that there will be that much people who have the ring and need outside healing for that to be a problem. Like, the ring means selfish build, selfish build means self-heals.
I concur.0 -
Saubon✭✭✭I agree! My light attackers and I were raiding the mournhold guild traders and one doofus accidently stole a piece of gear from the merchants stall. Said doofus was wearing this ring, in a GROUP merchant raid!!
Our light attacks were powerless against the guards advance, and we lost our comrade was mercilessly cut down before our eyes.
We lost a good one today. Pls ban this ring
Keep this memory in your heart. Heroes never die0 -
Inaya1✭✭✭I think better just delete ring of pale order and malacath from this game, thats be better for balance in summary x)1
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adilazimdegilx✭✭✭Why would anyone want to lose dps on group content to use the ring? If you are not trusting your healer or tank you can just put a skill to self heal when necessary. Most classes already use or have a skill for it anyway.
Even if they use the ring, why this is a problem for rest of the members? Apart from dps loss.0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »What you are asking is for gear checks to be programmed into the game. This isn't something that currently exists. Do you want gear checks to be introduced into the game?
Gear checks are everywhere in the game, pretty much every single set is gear checking. It's is just another condition. If in group [disable] else [enable]. Same as player vs enemy in set conditions.
Yeah, no. There are too many variables.- Only using dungeon finder? But what about porting in? Or trials where there is no finder and manually porting/walking in is the only way to enter?
- So only when in a group? But what if I'm just grouped with friends doing overland like WB runs? There is no set group dynamic there so there's usually no healer and each dd is responsible for their own health.
- Only solo instance areas like MA, VH, and certain quest areas? The amount of instances where the ring would be useable would be incredibly limited and therefore no one would bother.
Edited by heaven13 on November 5, 2020 10:59AMPC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS2 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »
That is....never going to happen as that defeats the entire downside of the ring. Which is you can't be healed by anyone other than yourself.
You're literally just trying to kill off an okay thing that adds a bit of variety to the game.9 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »
As someone who regularly duo dungeons I see a problem here2 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Lets make a topic about DD who do not stay in aoe and do not let healer heal them because of it.
To mark them for cheat, abuse, fake roll and some thing not logically understandable.
Peoples who play good do not let others look good ! Or something like that ?
Those who make good looking characters do not respect Ktulxu ! Only he must look cool 🤣
And etc. ?
(It is a joke i hope people understand that ?)Edited by AyaDark on November 5, 2020 1:01PM1 -
Spawniaq✭✭✭why don´t you play with your ring solo, maybe they want to use it and allowing it?
Seriously, why are you everytime against something Ps4 / Eu1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think it is already limited to solo play...
The restriction being you can only heal yourself.
I see no issue with this, in organised content this would be discussed. Everywhere else this doesn't really matter IMO.0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »
Here's a few problems with this line of logic.
First, let's address the elephant in the room. I happen to have a PvE guild that had done some awesome experiments with this ring - someone who understood the nuances of the ring already had took a guild group through Lair of Maarselok. Veteran. The whole group knew that they were wearing the ring and they even did the hardmode with it just to test and they got through it without much of a fuss. I even got a chance to test it, and while my DPS loss was rather marginal due to it still being traited as Bloodthirsty (it's still kinda broken), I was able to complete vCoS just fine compared to when I've pugged it and wanted to immediately rip my hair out because a healer was throwing a temper tantrum that I was turtling in Blood Mist. Had either of those scenarios have been a PuG, I'd have just vote kicked them if they couldn't deal with the repercussions of wearing the ring.
The second thing is that this ring adds variety, just like Valyn had mentioned above, not to mention a bit of versatility. Maybe it's an intermediate-experienced tank that can self-heal just fine while tanking and uses it for a bit of cushion because newer DPSers are dying all over the place. Maybe it's a vampiric healer using it because they're using Blood Frenzy to boost their heals along with applying DoT damage to keep it up for juuuuuust enough to make that raid clear in a vet progression group. While most won't bother with this because of the major caveats, the ring is aimed at a specific demographic. Can anyone use it? Yes. But the lore behind the ring is clear that it's mostly intended to be the bridging gap of maintaining health with vampires, which goes into the third thing.
Blood for Blood - You can't get healed by a party member while using it and you effectively forego group buffs using that ability along with Blood Frenzy, and even Mist Form in either iteration of it's morphs. That's a lot of abilities in their kit that can't get group buffs, not to mention Blood for Blood and all of Blood Frenzy's morphs use HEALTH. Do you know how annoying it is to be at an overworld group event like a boss and some heal-happy healer is spamming my health to full when I've experimented with Blood for Blood? Do you KNOW what that ability does? How it works? You deal more damage the less health you have. If you can safely stay below 50% (goldielocks zone is about 45% for my preference), you're dishing out quite a bit of damage - especially at execute phases. That was before the nerf, and while arguably that cut that portion off completely - we cannot heal without first stopping our DPS rotation to heal ourselves so we keep DPSing. That effectively wiped that ability off the board, along with the viability of vampire toons for quite a few PvE guilds that are going for raiding progression. I myself have been booted from some of those guilds because I still chose to stick with it. This ring bridges that gap where the stresses of it aren't as bad. So I don't get group buffs. I'm certainly not going to be the tippy top tier with DPS, but you know what? At least it made an ability BARELY useful again.
Seriously. Unless you absolutely know how to play the game in group environments with this ring? You're not going to have that good of a time. In every scenario, if I had just cured my vampirism? I'd have been dealing more DPS, I'd have been more effective within the group, and I'd have moderately more wiggle room in survivability - not to mention a loss of possibly a 5pc bonus, or even a monster set. Maybe even the Arena weapons from vMA. It's clear that the ring isn't for everyone and if you don't want it in your group, say so. It's a lot easier than killing off niche playstyles that people are all of a sudden paranoid over.
Edit: TL:DR; Not everyone is going to be using this, however it makes very niche playstyles and scenarios less stressful for more experienced players when we're dealing with the inexperienced players. Also people can troll Insightfuls all they want, it doesn't change the facts that there are clear nuanced scenarios when dealing with the choices of using this ring or not.Edited by Sephyr on November 5, 2020 1:58PM4 -
Muttsmutt✭✭✭✭✭it kind of is. by its design.
no need for hardcoded restrictions.
players can put two and two together & realize it's meant for solo play.PC-EU // UNDEAD5 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »
Hey, I've seen people brag about wearing vicious death in dungeons. I don't think we need to change game coding because people are willfully ignorant of tooltips.
Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MirandaSharp wrote: »warsteheineub17_ESO wrote: »Well, suppose there is a fake healer....
Then the players using the ring will be fine. It's double edge argument.
-So how do fake healers make the game better? -I think it's pretty well established that fake tanks made it worse, and now you propose fake healers?
I actually see more fake healers than fake tanks in the groupfinder.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The slippery sloped hysteria over this ring is HILARIOUS.I guess the bigger question is why does OP care if anyone uses this ring in group content?
It's mostly because people (mostly healers) are paranoid that they'll no longer be needed. At least that's been the general consensus in zone and in the majority of "NERF PALE ORDER NAO" threads.
That is not the reason healers are not in significant demand for a lot of content in the game.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »managed to get overcrowded with mobs and couple of something like daedroths (don't know the name but was looking like it)
Maw of the Infernal. Can confirm; it's a fun set. The big guy just wants to hug you... and vomit flames.ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »*people blaming healers
Yeah, that's going to happen anyway.ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »*people forgot they are wearing it
Slightly less likely, as the mythics do, kinda, stand out in your UI.ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »*newbies don't knowing what they even doing in this dungeon
That's a problem unrelated to any mythic item.
Actually, because mythic collecting is so obtuse, it's highly unlikely you're going to find many newbies running them at all. This is an item that does not exist below 50/160, so, it's not like a level 15 will pick it up, equip it, and then complain they're not getting heals. (Granted, a fresh 160 isn't exactly a paragon of experience, but still...)
PUGs not knowing what to do in dungeons is par for the course.ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »*probably there is more
Yeah, you'll have to forgive me, but that's not a very persuasive list.3 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The slippery sloped hysteria over this ring is HILARIOUS.I guess the bigger question is why does OP care if anyone uses this ring in group content?
It's mostly because people (mostly healers) are paranoid that they'll no longer be needed. At least that's been the general consensus in zone and in the majority of "NERF PALE ORDER NAO" threads.
That is not the reason healers are not in significant demand for a lot of content in the game.
No, but it is over the ring. Looking at several of the threads in the last few weeks, including the PTS, healers have been trying to get the ring nerfed because it makes them and I quote,
"Makes healers more useless than what we already are."
So yes, it's not the reason healers are not in significant demand, but they believe that this furthers that narrative and it clearly does not. I think you misunderstood, my friend. Because that's the reason why they care if people use it in group content - they think it makes them that much more useless when it really doesn't affect their performance at all, and quite frankly, none of their business as to why someone runs the ring.Edited by Sephyr on November 5, 2020 2:28PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The slippery sloped hysteria over this ring is HILARIOUS.I guess the bigger question is why does OP care if anyone uses this ring in group content?
It's mostly because people (mostly healers) are paranoid that they'll no longer be needed. At least that's been the general consensus in zone and in the majority of "NERF PALE ORDER NAO" threads.
Which, of course, they're already not. At least not to the groups they're worried about getting excluded from. The players who have the experience and confidence to work without a net aren't going to be scared back into line by this ring disappearing. That just leaves the groups that actually need healers, and this won't change anything for them either.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The slippery sloped hysteria over this ring is HILARIOUS.I guess the bigger question is why does OP care if anyone uses this ring in group content?
It's mostly because people (mostly healers) are paranoid that they'll no longer be needed. At least that's been the general consensus in zone and in the majority of "NERF PALE ORDER NAO" threads.
That is not the reason healers are not in significant demand for a lot of content in the game.
No, but it is over the ring. Looking at several of the threads in the last few weeks, including the PTS, healers have been trying to get the ring nerfed because it makes them and I quote,
"Makes healers more useless than what we already are."
So yes, it's not the reason healers are not in significant demand, but they believe that this furthers that narrative and it clearly does not. I think you misunderstood, my friend. Because that's the reason why they care if people use it in group content - they think it makes them that much more useless when it really doesn't affect their performance at all, and quite frankly, none of their business as to why someone runs the ring.
Yeah, part of the problem here is a lot of healers who only hand out hitpoints. Flat out? Those healers are meaningless. If they can offer valuable buffs or resources, that's useful, but the ones who are just like, "I fill the red bar!" don't really benefit any experienced teams.
They're feeling threatened by this, but it's already too late. Those healers weren't relevant before this ring hit the PTS, and they still won't be if the ring is axed from the game entirely.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The slippery sloped hysteria over this ring is HILARIOUS.I guess the bigger question is why does OP care if anyone uses this ring in group content?
It's mostly because people (mostly healers) are paranoid that they'll no longer be needed. At least that's been the general consensus in zone and in the majority of "NERF PALE ORDER NAO" threads.
That is not the reason healers are not in significant demand for a lot of content in the game.
No, but it is over the ring. Looking at several of the threads in the last few weeks, including the PTS, healers have been trying to get the ring nerfed because it makes them and I quote,
"Makes healers more useless than what we already are."
So yes, it's not the reason healers are not in significant demand, but they believe that this furthers that narrative and it clearly does not. I think you misunderstood, my friend. Because that's the reason why they care if people use it in group content - they think it makes them that much more useless.
Ahh. so the argument is healers being fairly useless to very much useless.
Since the game has launched a pure healer has been a bad healer except in trials. I remember my first clear of vDSA in 2014, I had only BoL and Repentance on my bar to heal for the first nine arenas, no staff.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »
Being snarky, are we? I enjoy pugging as a healer. But beyond a hello, not many people say anything. I do a good job keeping everyone alive while helping dps, too. I'm sure once I see someone's health drop low and my heals are doing nothing, I'll catch on that they must be using the ring. But I sure blew a lot of Magicka spamming burst heals.
Most gear have animations of effects when they are being used. There's nothing wrong with asking for an animation / effect / even slight color change to indicate they are wearing it. It would be a good thing. And as someone mentioned, there are players who don't speak English in this game, too.
If someone health is not going up after one burst heal then you know and no need to spam it after that, and you used what, 2 combat prayers and one whatever class skill you use ? Not even the third of your magica bar. If you are pugging, then people are using strange sets and builds all over anyhow. Tanks with 14k health. DDs with 30k health. I main a healer. Not one pug knows what the gold olorime ring on the ground is. One ranged attacker is on the other side of the room, behind the tank, light attacking and spamming the matriarch just in case. The other one is pew pewing the boss standing behind my back. Not getting any buffs, any heals, must use rapid regen all the time. The ring is going to change things ? Well, yes, I hope, at least the pug will get some healing and I can swich to dps gear I pug to practice , guild runs are too fast and smooth and you learn nothing, the bosses are melting. Pugs are fun ! And the ring is fine.
I guess your karma with pugs is much worse than mine. I often meet players who know what they are doing. And....Me, too, lol. I'm okay with the ring. I repeat. I'm okay with the ring. Just asking for some visual clue perhaps. Wouldn't that be helpful?
Visual effect on no heal can enter must be done. For vamp skill and this.
Just like black shine or something else. It will be very good solution and idea.
It even can help player who use it, by may be not turn off the effect before start fight.
+ some times HP bugs and you can not see it correct, so visual effect is really needed !
I think a visual clue is an ok idea. Maybe something like the health bar you see on invulnerable enemies.
But I don't think this should be restricted to solo only.
Healers are irrelevant for a large portion of content due to the mechanics of dungeons, not players using self healing. When one shots are prevalent, healers actually healing is mostly pointless. Can't heal through damage that just kills a player missing a mechanic. So what ends up happening is the mechanics can be skipped, or at least mitigated, by having more damage. Meaning healing is less relevant for experienced groups in many dungeons because DPS is just going to perform better than healing through some damage.
So this ring isn't going to hurt healers. Healers were already mostly irrelevant before this ring existed.2 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »The slippery sloped hysteria over this ring is HILARIOUS.I guess the bigger question is why does OP care if anyone uses this ring in group content?
It's mostly because people (mostly healers) are paranoid that they'll no longer be needed. At least that's been the general consensus in zone and in the majority of "NERF PALE ORDER NAO" threads.
Which, of course, they're already not. At least not to the groups they're worried about getting excluded from. The players who have the experience and confidence to work without a net aren't going to be scared back into line by this ring disappearing. That just leaves the groups that actually need healers, and this won't change anything for them either.
Agreed and that's what I've had to point out to several people in zone chats because pugging, really you're just putting yourself in a rather precarious situation. Unless you understand the nuances of the people in your group and play around those differences, it's a risky gamble to just go in using the ring blind with a group of people you probably never interacted with in the first place.
But in the right hands, it leaves not only the groups that actually need the healers - it also allows the healer to focus more on the other people within the group if the player, again, is experienced with type of gameplay. When I ran some experiments myself with some guildies in vCoS, even the healer felt less pressured on me and was able to focus more heals on the other DPS and tank. Dare I say, it actually made playing my vampire fun again.4
