Let’s talk.......About Vet Frostvault

Nerdrage9000

Ok - for real. Now I know that someone who is extra l33t will probably post here and be like “I solo’d it”

But for real now - has anyone, and I mean anyone actually beat Vet Frostvault in a PUG?

This place is waaay too overturned to even be listed in the Dungeon finder.

Normal is ok, vet Frostvault in a pug is beyond gross.

josiahva

I run it in pugs all the time(as a tank)...can make it through about 75% of the time or so. Its not that difficult, most often the groups who have trouble at the vault protector just aren't familiar enough with the mechanics. The rest of the dungeon is easy.

trackdemon5512

The mechanics aren't bad a definitely PUGgable. Dwarven Centurion boss still needs to be fixed. Namely that the lasers occasionally go through the boss.

Seminolegirl1992

The dungeon isn't difficult. But I certainly wouldn't torture myself by pugging it.

BraidasNM

Doing any dlc dungeon with pugs is just frustration

AyaDark

No HM is OK. HM is - i better go away like - with pugs.

El_Borracho

Vault Protector is the hardest part. Mostly because of the adds in conjunction with the mechanics. Other than that, the rest is only difficult with a lower DPS group.

Shewolf075

It's puggable. Just have to be patient with your group and help explain things along the way. Would help if folks did admit they are new and willing to learn with others. Some groups make it and others don't, you just have to stop once you hit that brick wall and over an hour into it stuck on the laser boss. Otherwise enjoy the ride. It's actually quite a fun dungeon.

El_Borracho

Shewolf075 wrote: »

It's puggable. Just have to be patient with your group and help explain things along the way. Would help if folks did admit they are new and willing to learn with others. Some groups make it and others don't, you just have to stop once you hit that brick wall and over an hour into it stuck on the laser boss. Otherwise enjoy the ride. It's actually quite a fun dungeon.

Completely with you. This is a dungeon people should run on normal several times to get the pattern down for the Vault Protector and later the rats on the final boss. Jumping into this cold without knowing things like "run away from the tether" or "focus the g*&*^n archers when they spawn" can be group-killing.

zvavi

El_Borracho wrote: »

Shewolf075 wrote: »

It's puggable. Just have to be patient with your group and help explain things along the way. Would help if folks did admit they are new and willing to learn with others. Some groups make it and others don't, you just have to stop once you hit that brick wall and over an hour into it stuck on the laser boss. Otherwise enjoy the ride. It's actually quite a fun dungeon.

Completely with you. This is a dungeon people should run on normal several times to get the pattern down for the Vault Protector and later the rats on the final boss. Jumping into this cold without knowing things like "run away from the tether" or "focus the g*&*^n archers when they spawn" can be group-killing.

The tether is a mechanic you get in FG2, so I wouldn't call it something people need to specifically do on normal, and archers get pulled in by the tank and die immediately in aoe. So out of all the mechanics in the dungeon you named the 2 that are not too harsh on pugs.

Kurat

If tank and 1 dps is competent then it's easily pugable, if you get bad tank or if you're tanking and get both bad dps then it's a fail. I pug it several times when it's the pledge and I would say it's like 60-70% clear rate. I've even done few speed runs and HMs with pugs. Most group who fail fall apart on 2nd or 3rd boss.
Definitely one of the best dungeons and shouldn't be nerfed. Instead I wish they would do more dungeons like FV, MHK etc. Last 2 dungeon dlcs were too easy and boring.

Everest_Lionheart

El_Borracho wrote: »

Shewolf075 wrote: »

It's puggable. Just have to be patient with your group and help explain things along the way. Would help if folks did admit they are new and willing to learn with others. Some groups make it and others don't, you just have to stop once you hit that brick wall and over an hour into it stuck on the laser boss. Otherwise enjoy the ride. It's actually quite a fun dungeon.

Completely with you. This is a dungeon people should run on normal several times to get the pattern down for the Vault Protector and later the rats on the final boss. Jumping into this cold without knowing things like "run away from the tether" or "focus the g*&*^n archers when they spawn" can be group-killing.

Normal isn’t going to teach people much because you can literally skip or ignore mechanics. You’ll get the gist of a few add spawns and play the laser game at a much slower speed, but if you miss any interrupts or take too long to untether on tzogvin it’s doesn’t really matter. Vet is so much more punitive and missing even the basic mechs is a wipe sometimes. I honestly think normal needs to be bumped up a bit to prepare people for vet better.

gatekeeper13

I completed vFV only once for the helm and never went back there. It was a pug group but we completed it without much trouble.

Contrary to popular opinion, the hardest boss in the dungeon for me is Tzogvin. I found vault protector relatively easy.

Astrid

Non HM is fine. HM with a pug is like pulling teeth, even when you drag yourself onto comms to explain what’s going on. Unless you bump into a bunch of people who are competent it isn’t going to happen.

Calm_Fury

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

Ok - for real. Now I know that someone who is extra l33t will probably post here and be like “I solo’d it”

But for real now - has anyone, and I mean anyone actually beat Vet Frostvault in a PUG?

This place is waaay too overturned to even be listed in the Dungeon finder.

Normal is ok, vet Frostvault in a pug is beyond gross.

I tanked this dungeon with PUGs for a long time.

I'm pretty sure my completion rate there was less than 10%. Not even vMHK is a PUG killer like this one currently.

I bet this got worse because people wanted to farm Tzorgvin without knowing anything about the dungeon.

But yes, if I want to tank vet pledges with PUGs, vFL is the only one I just skip now.

Ankaridan

I have cleared dozens of times in PUGs, but I do avoid it when it's the pledge because fake dps flood into it. I get tired of dps unable to break Tzogvin's flame shield over and over again.

I will only do the HM with a group that I know.

code65536

I've completed it a number of times when I've gotten it for my Random Vet. But have also failed it a number of times too.

Vault Protector is the sticking point. Some groups are okay with it. Some groups can get it after some coaching. And some groups just can't be helped.

When I queue as a tank, my biggest peeve is watching damage dealers who fail to prioritize spheres.

When I queue as a damage dealer, my biggest peeve is watching a tank just stand there blocking like a statue (since this is a fight that has almost no incoming damage that can threaten the tank) instead of doing something useful like range-interrupting all the spheres.

If you queue as a tank, then make sure you have Crushing Shock slotted and pay attention to the spheres. Don't ever let one power up. And if you're really quick, you can even prevent them from shooting their ground AoE. If the spheres never empower, then as long as people don't mess up the laser (which is pretty easy once you get the hang of it), then there's really nothing that can kill people on that fight.

If you queue as a damage dealer, then make sure the spheres die.

And for everyone: watch the damn laser. It's not that hard.

Reverb

Frostvault and MHK are the only dungeons I have a 0% completion rate with pugs in vet.

Nord_Raseri

Ran a partial pug(Me, a friend, and 1 random) with only 3 of us. It wasn't too horrible but it was very buggy. We wiped a few times, but got through it.

CyberSkooma

There's nothing wrong with Vet Frostvault's tuning. If you can't beat it in a pug, look in zone, or a guild, or here on the forums, or on reddit, for a group.

CrashTest

Don't be shy with the votekick option. There are actually some decent players in queue who can do the dungeon.

My last 6 vFV runs were pugged thru GF. I completed 4 of them. The 2 I didn't complete were train wreck dumpster fires. I always ask at the start of vDLC pug runs if anyone needs mechs explained. But when you don't speak up and are constantly dead, then you're getting votekicked. If votekick doesn't pass or the players who actually know what they're doing leave, then I'll leave too.

The mechs are the exact same in normal and that's where players should learn them, not in vet and expect a carry.

Grandchamp1989

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

Ok - for real. Now I know that someone who is extra l33t will probably post here and be like “I solo’d it”

But for real now - has anyone, and I mean anyone actually beat Vet Frostvault in a PUG?

This place is waaay too overturned to even be listed in the Dungeon finder.

Normal is ok, vet Frostvault in a pug is beyond gross.

If you get a GOOD group you gotta be prepared to stay there 2 hours due to lasers lol
If you get a bad group, just leave lol.

lardvader

Yes I have puged all vet dungeons. All HM as well except for 4 dlc dungeons. #puglife

Volktair

[snip]

Its just mecanics, and focus. You can do it with a good group of pugs

[edited for inappropriate content]

Grianasteri

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

Ok - for real. Now I know that someone who is extra l33t will probably post here and be like “I solo’d it”

But for real now - has anyone, and I mean anyone actually beat Vet Frostvault in a PUG?

This place is waaay too overturned to even be listed in the Dungeon finder.

Normal is ok, vet Frostvault in a pug is beyond gross.

Yes, years ago though.

But I tried again last year I think it was, as I needed another helm. Hours of pugging later, over several weeks and it just simply was not possible. Pugs generally dont have the patience, time or team work to manage Vet Frostvault and beyond this often people are queuing for the easy XP/keys and when faced with Vet Frostvault think, nah, bye. That or its folk clearly not ready or capable of tackling such a dungeon and they are just looking for a carry, so the pug fails.

Eventually I managed to get a good enough premade from a guild and we got it done again, but even then, it wasnt easy.

Folks may be interested to note that I did a poll last year, to explore what DLC Vet dungeons people felt were most difficult, and Frostvault was a pretty clear front runner.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501790/which-veteran-dlc-dungeon-is-most-difficult-to-complete/p1

PS, I felt compelled to come back and add a little more regarding the various posts, as usual, saying Vet Frostvault is ubber easy and not a problem to pug. When not flexing in chat, the community disagree. The poll I have posted unequivocally shows that such opinions are the minority. I also think statistically re % completions etc, this is actually proven but I cant recall where I have seen that in the past.

Its an difficult dungeon to pug, stop pretending otherwise.
.

code65536

Grianasteri wrote: »

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

Ok - for real. Now I know that someone who is extra l33t will probably post here and be like “I solo’d it”

But for real now - has anyone, and I mean anyone actually beat Vet Frostvault in a PUG?

This place is waaay too overturned to even be listed in the Dungeon finder.

Normal is ok, vet Frostvault in a pug is beyond gross.

Yes, years ago though.

But I tried again last year I think it was, as I needed another helm. Hours of pugging later, over several weeks and it just simply was not possible. Pugs generally dont have the patience, time or team work to manage Vet Frostvault and beyond this often people are queuing for the easy XP/keys and when faced with Vet Frostvault think, nah, bye. That or its folk clearly not ready or capable of tackling such a dungeon and they are just looking for a carry, so the pug fails.

Eventually I managed to get a good enough premade from a guild and we got it done again, but even then, it wasnt easy.

Folks may be interested to note that I did a poll last year, to explore what DLC Vet dungeons people felt were most difficult, and Frostvault was a pretty clear front runner.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501790/which-veteran-dlc-dungeon-is-most-difficult-to-complete/p1

PS, I felt compelled to come back and add a little more regarding the various posts, as usual, saying Vet Frostvault is ubber easy and not a problem to pug. When not flexing in chat, the community disagree. The poll I have posted unequivocally shows that such opinions are the minority. I also think statistically re % completions etc, this is actually proven but I cant recall where I have seen that in the past.

Its an difficult dungeon to pug, stop pretending otherwise.
.

Yea, Frostvault the Vault Protector is one of the tougher fights out there, but from my experiences PUGing it, the failure rate is similar to Maarselok (Cancroid and Maarselok Perched) and Malatar (King Narilmor). These fights share one thing in common: Mechanics happen on a timer.

Which means that these fights are extremely polarizing. Take King Narilmor from Malatar, for example. It's pretty common for high-damage groups to kill him before he is able to split a second time. Because they don't have to worry about additional splits producing an unmanageable build-up decoy clones, they can just focus down the real copy, which, in turn, is what makes such a burn possible, because you're not wasting damage on killing the decoys. The end result is a boss fight that lasts a little over a minute.

Now, the typical PUG failure at King Narilmor looks like this: Without sufficient damage to burn, it's necessary to kill the decoys, so that you don't get overwhelmed by them. This makes the tank's job harder, since they need to run around and stack the decoys. It also means that the damage dealers need to waste a fair chunk of damage killing the decoys, and by the time the decoys are gone, they barely have a chance to damage the boss before the cycle starts all over again. The end result is the boss's health going down 5% or less per phase, and if someone dies, then you will fall behind and inevitably spiral into a wipe. If you are able to keep people alive, then you can grind through it (and I have done that a few times when I queued as a tank), but it's an excruciating affair that takes well over 10 minutes.

Vault Protector's the same. If you have enough damage to prevent the adds from building up and to push the boss fast enough that the mechanics are happening at health triggers rather than the timer triggers, then it's a short 2-minute fight, and if the spheres' power-up is always interrupted (this is the biggest problem that I see with PUG groups--that nobody interrupts the power-up) then the only thing that can kill is the laser, which is just a matter of basic mechanical awareness. So, yea, it is easy. But if the damage is low and the adds build up, and people have poor awareness and stand there like a deer in headlights as the laser vaporizes them, thus exacerbating the low-damage problem, then it can very quickly spiral out of control.

What ZOS could do to make Vault Protector easier is to ease up on the timing of the laser mechanic. Such a change would have zero effect on high-damage groups (since they are already triggering mechanics at health percentages and not at the timer points), but would make the fight more recoverable for PUGs.

But, in general, I feel like a lot of people who queue for vet DLC dungeons just are not ready for them. I always tell people: You need to complete vMA. Not for the weapons, no. But because vMA is the gateway to vet DLC content. It's a rite of passage. It establishes a baseline for damage output and awareness, and, frankly, if someone can't beat vMA, they have no business stepping foot in vet DLC dungeons or trials. And I suspect that people who can comfortably beat vMA would find no issue with Frostvault, Maarselok, or any of the other DLC vets.

josiahva

code65536 wrote: »

I've completed it a number of times when I've gotten it for my Random Vet. But have also failed it a number of times too.

Vault Protector is the sticking point. Some groups are okay with it. Some groups can get it after some coaching. And some groups just can't be helped.

When I queue as a tank, my biggest peeve is watching damage dealers who fail to prioritize spheres.

When I queue as a damage dealer, my biggest peeve is watching a tank just stand there blocking like a statue (since this is a fight that has almost no incoming damage that can threaten the tank) instead of doing something useful like range-interrupting all the spheres.

If you queue as a tank, then make sure you have Crushing Shock slotted and pay attention to the spheres. Don't ever let one power up. And if you're really quick, you can even prevent them from shooting their ground AoE. If the spheres never empower, then as long as people don't mess up the laser (which is pretty easy once you get the hang of it), then there's really nothing that can kill people on that fight.

If you queue as a damage dealer, then make sure the spheres die.

And for everyone: watch the damn laser. It's not that hard.

Didn't even know that about the spheres...usually as tank I just help the DPS take them down quickly by using the shock ball AOE to one shot them and spam shields the rest of the time. Will have to make sure I have a lightning staff back barred on that fight in the future(I default to resto in pugs, the group ends up with better combat prayer uptime)

Grianasteri

@code65536

I could not agree more with what you are saying regarding those other, difficult dungeons. Your description of pug fails in Maltaar in particular, is spot on.

I disagree with you regarding vMA being a prerequisite for tackling Vet DLC content. I was able to complete pretty much all the Vet DLC dungeons (at that time), before I managed to complete vMA for the first time.

I do get what youre saying though, vMA forces players (certainly average ones) to follow mechanics, avoid damage, deal damage, priorities targets etc, so it cant help but improve a players game. But I feel with healz and tank roles available, and x2 DPS sharing the load, Vet dungeons can be easier, more manageable and accessible for the average player. I do not mean being carried either.

linuxlady

Try doing frostvault in first person view. Then come talk to me about what difficult is....

Cage_Lizardman

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

But for real now - has anyone, and I mean anyone actually beat Vet Frostvault in a PUG?

https://www.esologs.com/reports/a4jw6T18KpqtJZL9#fight=last
https://www.esologs.com/reports/zFJM1kLHnRB3qpKZ#fight=4
https://www.esologs.com/reports/2v9pThZ3JVnGLHFW#fight=last
https://www.esologs.com/reports/hXBwFgJbjrWCR6Qq#fight=last
https://www.esologs.com/reports/2A9yX7jJaPBHWLbT#fight=last
https://www.esologs.com/reports/ByjWRzDGnr8MaL9N#fight=last
https://www.esologs.com/reports/xjGnVw2g8KWqabAQ#fight=last
https://www.esologs.com/reports/1DpmfQGjYJ643LTz#fight=last

Not saying it's easy, obviously there were also many failures. Half the time the tank just says "nope" at the start of the dungeon and leaves group.

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

Ok - for real. Now I know that someone who is extra l33t will probably post here and be like “I solo’d it”

Damn forgot to log that

LashanW

In my experience pugs don't get past vault protector often. 2-3+ wipes and people start leaving the group.