Nerf to Sergeant's Mail is Pointless, Here's Why

Decimus

Sergeant’s Mail: This set’s bonus damage for Heavy Attacks will once again no longer apply to Dual Wield’s off-hand strike.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
While we had recently adjusted this to work, it has proven too burst enabling in PvP, especially when paired with other Heavy Attack sets.

Sergeant's Mail is very far from being a problem as the burst damage it provides is significantly less than many other heavy attack (and non-heavy attack) sets currently in the game.

To fully utilize Sergeant's Mail you are (/were, since no one who understands math will use it anymore) required to set up the target with Off Balance (which has a 15s cooldown) as that provides 70% damage modifier for heavy attacks, after which you had to land a melee range hit with what is essentially a cast time.

Yet that never provided more burst damage than other sets such as Doylemish, Caluurion, Red Mountain, Kjalnar, Selene, Velidreth and so on.


Here's how Sergeant's Mail looks like post nerf:




In any case, you used to get this damage twice with Dual Wield assuming you fulfilled all the conditions, for a total of 11 330 damage before Battle Spirit.

Is this "overpowered" or too much burst considering the steps you have to go through? This is the damage you gain from Sergeant's if you don't meet the pre-conditions (Off Balance, Molten Armaments etc):


A whole 1881 damage from Sergeant 5p (or 3762 pre-nerf), (almost) less than a DoT tick from a proc set.


Doylemish with similar amount of pre-conditions (in fact just stunning someone who's Off Balance with a Dual Wield Heavy Attack procs it) has a tooltip of 13 257, and Red Mountain (which is about as easy to dodge roll and avoid as a Dual Wield Heavy Attack) has a tooltip of 13 610:



This is more than pre-nerf Sergeant's Mail, and almost three times what Sergeant provides after the nerf. And no, I am not calling these sets "overpowered" either.

Many of the upcoming item sets also provide considerably more burst damage than Sergeant's Mail in optimal conditions:
Vateshran 2H - 9657 Damage
Explosive Rebuke - 14 728 Damage

Undaunted Infiltrator also now provides more damage to heavy attacks as well when dual wielding (2x 1685) on top of buffing light attacks and being off barrable.


Point is, the nerf to Sergeant's Mail seems less like a decision based on study of numbers and actual game balance and reads more like a knee jerk reaction to a misinformed QQ thread about the set.

In summary, a niche good set used by a few builds to specialize in consistent good damage with heavy attacks has become absolutely useless and as a result we have less build diversity for basically no reason at all.

Solariken

It's hard to compare Sergeant damage with instanced proc sets like Doylemish because Sergeant has no cooldown and rewards you with resource return for proccing, vs some that require you to expend resources to proc or saddled with a cooldown.

I think heavy attack builds are really fun, but I do admit DK heavy attack builds are very oppressive in PvP, and Sergeant is one of the biggest pieces of that puzzle.

I think a better nerf @ZOS_Gilliam would have been a kiss-curse, maybe keep the damage as it was but disable resource return from heavy attacks.

kalunte

well, it "was" 11k dmg before "nerf", but you're somehow forgeting that it can be buffed by both molten armament and empower which makes it even stronger, + there is no cooldown on heavy attacks (but cast time), also the cast time can be lowered by being a werewolf..

the set itself, alone, is still usable, just less absurd in some ways. Niche, not cheese.

i agree on the fact that undaunted inflitrator should suffer the same treatment about dw heavies, but that's a basic feature of ZoS dev team to tweak 2 same things differently >.>

Firstmep

Solariken wrote: »

It's hard to compare Sergeant damage with instanced proc sets like Doylemish because Sergeant has no cooldown and rewards you with resource return for proccing, vs some that require you to expend resources to proc or saddled with a cooldown.

I think heavy attack builds are really fun, but I do admit DK heavy attack builds are very oppressive in PvP, and Sergeant is one of the biggest pieces of that puzzle.

I think a better nerf @ZOS_Gilliam would have been a kiss-curse, maybe keep the damage as it was but disable resource return from heavy attacks.

You don't need to use a skill to actually proc doylemish, if you are dual wielding, you can heavy attack a target and the first tick of the heavy will stun and the second will proc doylemish.
With all the position desyncs, I really haven't found melee heavy attack builds that great no matter how hard you hit with them.
That being said with the empower change, some small nerf was definetly warranted.
This is way too harsh though, I think a reduction to the dmg bonus on sergeant when dual wielding would have been far more appropriate.
Also if sergeant is over performing, just wait until lightning heavy builds take off in a never before seen way next patch with the empower buff.

Waffennacht

Im at least glad we now know it WAS NEVER A BUG

We all know what im talking about

Decimus

Solariken wrote: »

It's hard to compare Sergeant damage with instanced proc sets like Doylemish because Sergeant has no cooldown and rewards you with resource return for proccing, vs some that require you to expend resources to proc or saddled with a cooldown.

I think heavy attack builds are really fun, but I do admit DK heavy attack builds are very oppressive in PvP, and Sergeant is one of the biggest pieces of that puzzle.

I think a better nerf @ZOS_Gilliam would have been a kiss-curse, maybe keep the damage as it was but disable resource return from heavy attacks.

It's not hard to compare at all when the reasoning given for the nerf is "burst damage". Landing two cast times in a row is not burst damage, that's pressure - exactly what someone using Sergeant builds for. If you want burst (as in kill your opponent as fast as possible) you slot(ted) any of the other sets that provide more of it.


Furthermore, I don't know what the point is with bringing up resource return - Sergeant doesn't provide you more resources from heavy attacking and not running Sergeant doesn't prevent you from heavy attacking. Nor do any of the other more impactful procs cost any resources. What is your point here exactly?


Only people who have never played heavy attack builds or done the math on their potential compared to other sets/builds in game would call them oppressive. Well, stamina ones anyway...

kalunte wrote: »

well, it "was" 11k dmg before "nerf", but you're somehow forgeting that it can be buffed by both molten armament and empower which makes it even stronger, + there is no cooldown on heavy attacks (but cast time), also the cast time can be lowered by being a werewolf..

the set itself, alone, is still usable, just less absurd in some ways. Niche, not cheese.

i agree on the fact that undaunted inflitrator should suffer the same treatment about dw heavies, but that's a basic feature of ZoS dev team to tweak 2 same things differently >.>

Empower cannot be used on a stamina DK, not without losing Corrosive or slotting a skill used only for Empower (e.g. Magelight, Degen, Empowering Chains etc) which actually doesn't provide 40% damage since the percentage modifier is additive with other modifiers. Latter is not worth it since it adds yet another step before you can burst someone and the buff only lasts a few seconds - turns a functional build into a clunky and impractical one.

Here's the damage you gain from Empower when other buffs are already in:
70% (Off Balance)+50% (Molten Armaments)+Malacath Ring 25%+Twin Blade & Blunt 6%=151%
70% (Off Balance)+50% (Molten Armaments)+Malacath Ring 25%+Twin Blade & Blunt 6%+Empower=191%

1000+151%=2510
1000+191%=2910

2510->2910 = 15.93% increase in damage


But yes, most other classes actually deal less damage than my 11k (on a PvE target dummy) example since they don't have access to Molten Armaments, even with Empower (since Empower is 40% & Molten Armaments is 50%).


If you want to be completely useless go ahead and use it on a werewolf which only gets the base tooltip at the moment, plenty of bad builds out there already though.



These kinda uninformed comments are exactly why we get these nerfs in the first place and why usable sets become useless and strong sets become overpowered...

Waffennacht

@Decimus why didnt you post this on any of the ;_; posts that ultimately lead to this change?

The time for arguing against nerfs is before they happen, not after.

StormSlash

The set went from almost useful to now useless

Decimus

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Decimus why didnt you post this on any of the ;_; posts that ultimately lead to this change?

The time for arguing against nerfs is before they happen, not after.

People can find those threads if they search for them, I don't want mine to get locked for "naming & shaming" or anything ridiculous like that.

If you open one of those threads you'll find me arguing against pointless nerfs like this, trying to explain basic concepts to someone who either clearly does not understand basic concepts or just wants to see other peoples' builds nerfed due to some personal vendetta.


Sadly it seems Zenimax only listens to who complains the loudest rather than actually looking at how things work.

kalunte

@Decimus i dont get where my comment is uniformed. i'm saying that the bonus you're getting from Seargent or UI can get buffed by both molten armament and empower, regular "dmg procsets" cant.

heavy attacks cast time can be lowered by being a werewolf but this is just another way to show that the "hidden cooldown" which is supposed to be the "cast time" of heavy attacks can be reduced, which could be considered as a reduction of a cooldown.
here again, you cant reduce a dmg procset's cooldown.
needless to say that this second part has nothing to do with a proper build or the DW offhand loosing the bonus, unless someone can show me that WW heavies are considered "2hits" like DW instead of 1.


last but not least, i liked your build when i had to face you bro, i was quite surprised but also pleased that you are always finding funny and efficient build outside of so called "meta" all the time.

Solariken

@Decimus I was only saying it's not apples to apples. Unlike other proc sets the bonus from Sergeant's tooltip is very misleading because of how many damage amps you can add to it.

These nerf discussions are always subjective, I don't care if it gets nerfed or not because something else always takes its place. But I will say that in my opinion, heavy attack Corrosive Fossilize DK is one of the strongest overall builds on the market and it's played by one of the strongest players in PCNA BG and fighting him is a giant pain. You can pump out top tier burst + pressure without spending a single point of stamina on your attack. Granted it's not the only proc build that allows you to do it, and it's nowhere near as frustrating as bombstreaktard procsorc, but it's worth stating.

StormSlash

Solariken wrote: »

@Decimus I was only saying it's not apples to apples. Unlike other proc sets the bonus from Sergeant's tooltip is very misleading because of how many damage amps you can add to it.

These nerf discussions are always subjective, I don't care if it gets nerfed or not because something else always takes its place. But I will say that in my opinion, heavy attack Corrosive Fossilize DK is one of the strongest overall builds on the market and it's played by one of the strongest players in PCNA BG and fighting him is a giant pain. You can pump out top tier burst + pressure without spending a single point of stamina on your attack. Granted it's not the only proc build that allows you to do it, and it's nowhere near as frustrating as bombstreaktard procsorc, but it's worth stating.

Its definitely top tier burst but incredibly hard to pull off and go positive ratio in a BG against anyone competent

maxjapank

Decimus wrote: »

These kinda uninformed comments are exactly why we get these nerfs in the first place and why usable sets become useless and strong sets become overpowered...

It seems that's the nature of today's world. When one man speaks incorrect information over and over in multiple threads / platforms, he is likely to gain a following. And then those followers continue to spread the same incorrect information because they need something to blame for their failures. And almost none of them have stood in the shoes of the thing they are complaining about. Before long, they will all move to another ill-informed theme because of the need to blame something.

Urzigurumash

I would say it's logical to keep it from affecting Dual Wield differently from 2h and S&B, but buff it by like 50% so that it's still a good set and a worthwhile choice. However, I'm talking about live and not PTS, and I'm not sure what to make of the Empower change yet regarding class balance, so perhaps my below comments are irrelevant.

Disclaimer: I've mostly played as Heavy StamDK since this game came out on Xbox NA, and I'm probably responsible for more Doylemish procs in BGs than anybody else on the server, having used it off and on since 2018, but I never tried the Sergeant's + Dual Wield combo. Also I'm not very good at this game, or any other game, so I'm quite biased about this all.

I feel strongly as though Heavy Attacks are one of the few things keeping the Knight in Dragonknight alive, and keeping every StamDK from running as a "Poison Rogue", as somebody once called it, or switching to another class. If these sets are carrying this aspect of StamDK in Death Match, it's not that the Molten Armaments buff is too strong, but rather too weak. Of course we could talk about adjusting the StamDK toolkit in a broader way so that we aren't so dependent on Heavy Attack damage to separate us from other classes, but that's another topic.

It is interesting to hear any form of StamDK called "oppressive" in BGs by PC NA players, since some PC EU players recently ranked it as the worst class in BGs. My impression on Xbox NA is that we are solidly middle of the pack, lightyears ahead of where we were in Death Match in 2018, but nothing, not even a slight shimmer, of what we used to be in CP Dueling circa 2016. Most of the StamDKs I know gravitate continually more towards being a Poison Rogue, and dispensing of the archaic 2015 style of "turtle up until Corrosive pops". That this style remains viable at all is probably thanks to a small handful of sets almost tailor-made for StamDK. Corrosive used to buff DOTs, and we used to use Reverb Bash for Major Defile, and also the old OP racial passives helped us quite a bit, but that goes for everyone.

Dunning_Kruger

Good now nerf undaunted infiltrator as well.

Solariken

Urzigurumash wrote: »

.
It is interesting to hear any form of StamDK called "oppressive" in BGs by PC NA players,

It's the 11-12k+ burst coming in every 2 seconds on top of Fossilize on cooldown and Corrosive every time you try to retaliate.

I'm not saying I want it nerfed but I am saying it's the stuff of nightmares

Arcanasx

kalunte wrote: »

@Decimus i dont get where my comment is uniformed. i'm saying that the bonus you're getting from Seargent or UI can get buffed by both molten armament and empower, regular "dmg procsets" cant.

heavy attacks cast time can be lowered by being a werewolf but this is just another way to show that the "hidden cooldown" which is supposed to be the "cast time" of heavy attacks can be reduced, which could be considered as a reduction of a cooldown.
here again, you cant reduce a dmg procset's cooldown.
needless to say that this second part has nothing to do with a proper build or the DW offhand loosing the bonus, unless someone can show me that WW heavies are considered "2hits" like DW instead of 1.


last but not least, i liked your build when i had to face you bro, i was quite surprised but also pleased that you are always finding funny and efficient build outside of so called "meta" all the time.

"i dont get where my comment is uniformed. i'm saying that the bonus you're getting from Seargent or UI can get buffed by both molten armament and empower, regular "dmg procsets" cant."


Molten is one of those buffs that can make those sets viable. Empowered currently does not effect heavy attacks on live, and for next patch since we're talking about dual wield attacks here it will be utterly impractical to use on a dw stam dk due to the clunky and awkward setup required to try and use it. Again its additive, so it wouldn't even be another 40% damage added on to your heavy attacks anyway if you're using other heavy attack modifiers.

On the other hand, as if the proc dot sets that are very common these days weren't strong enough already, could you imagine if such buffs existed to buff them even more so? Assuming both molten and off balance theoretically worked for these proc dot sets, it would bring their average 2k dps before modifiers to 4.4k dps with molten and off balance. This doesn't prove that these damage modifiers for heavy attacks are broken, rather it shows that it needs them to make heavy attack builds even viable in the current meta in the first place. Yet if these modifiers worked for the proc dots, it would be so comically broken to be taking 120% more damage from unblockable, undodgeable, proc dot sets activated by range, because the base damage from these proc dot sets are high enough to be oppressive without any modifers to buff them; the damage is already strong enough just by itself.

"heavy attacks cast time can be lowered by being a werewolf but this is just another way to show that the "hidden cooldown" which is supposed to be the "cast time" of heavy attacks can be reduced, which could be considered as a reduction of a cooldown.
here again, you cant reduce a dmg procset's cooldown.
needless to say that this second part has nothing to do with a proper build or the DW offhand loosing the bonus, unless someone can show me that WW heavies are considered "2hits" like DW instead of 1."

I'm not sure why you're mentioning WWs in the first place. Cant use molten as a WW and you can't get empower for yourself either. WWs have the fastest heavy attacks so therefore the "nerf the barely used niche set that is sergeants is justified" just seems like a weak argument, I dont think its heavy attacking WWs that make up most of the complaints about them.

Assuming you are just holding down left click against someone who is just standing there and doing nothing, you have sergeants and are using dual wield, it comes to about 1.75 seconds on average (fluctuates depending on latency/server lag), since sergeants adds 2257, it comes to about 1290 dps before any modifiers. This is when sergeants works once, and no effort is made to block, dodge or move out of the way by creating space or LOSing. This isnt even taking into account the added delay to charging dual wield heavy attacks that they will introduce next patch when weaved with abilities (200ms more).

All the other proc dot sets average almost 2kdps, many of them are aoe and can effect multiple targets at once, can be applied from range or from a gap closer, the damage cannot be blocked, they cannot be dodged once its on you, it continues to tick on you, and if you have the option to purge it, its going to be reapplied on you quickly anyways. How is this even remotely balanced? Sergeants was only viable for dual wield since the base damage is too low to use on anything else. And because of all the counters there are to telegraphed and delayed attacks, you also need those damage amplifiers to make it worth using in the first place.

There are players literally doing over a million damage in BGs just by spamming light attacks and poison injection from a distance to activate multiple proc dots at once, and all of this without any of the damage modifiers available to proc dot sets that exist for heavy attacks... But sergeants needs to be nerfed because its "too much burst" when paired with other heavy attack sets? There are other sets out there that will provide you more burst yet aren't being adjusted.

Sergeant's is being nerfed because of envious whiners who cried loud enough on the forums, provided cherry picked scenarios that exaggerate the effectiveness of the set, and made false accusations of the set being "bugged" or "using this set is cheating/exploiting" when it actually wasn't (all the while never actually using the set for themselves to see how they can perform with it); not because it was "overperforming" compared to the other sets that exist. Otherwise we would see far more players using this set to great effect, instead of all the proc dot sets that are already far more popular than sergeants.

Arcanasx

Solariken wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

.
It is interesting to hear any form of StamDK called "oppressive" in BGs by PC NA players,

It's the 11-12k+ burst coming in every 2 seconds on top of Fossilize on cooldown and Corrosive every time you try to retaliate.

I'm not saying I want it nerfed but I am saying it's the stuff of nightmares

Thats really only possible with full pen from corrosive and being off balanced as well, and weaved with other abilities, with enchants and their status effects firing off as well, as you fail to dodge/block it. Damage like that just can't be done consistently.

sabresandiego_ESO

The loudest people in this thread are the people who have been "abusing" these sets for the longest time, and they don't want to give up that power. We have two new heavy attack sets this patch, and a new empower mechanic; yet instead of being happy - these players want to be able to spam DW double proc heavies on demand with as little effort as possible (like they were doing with double proc sunderflame before double proc seargent's mail).

Insulting the developers by saying they simply listen to the loudest people is silly and misguided. The devs look at data, they do a thorough analysis, and do not make knee jerk changes. They did not even reply or acknowledge complaints about these double proc HA sets for months. The devs know what sets people use, and how effective they are. They can see all kinds of data that regular players can't see, and they make informed decisions based on real data, not on hearsay. This update they also nerfed sheer venom, [snip], but because their data showed that it was over performing. I think both nerfs were the right move, even though I use sheer venom myself, it was simply too strong.

If you truly love heavy attack builds, there are a ton of options available that look very fun to use and aren't as cheesy as double procing DW seargents spam. I'm personally looking forward to trying out the new 2H arena heavy attack weapon.

[edited for baiting]

Recapitated

Should've just buffed it for two-handed weapons

Arcanasx

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The loudest people in this thread are the people who have been "abusing" these sets for the longest time, and they don't want to give up that power. We have two new heavy attack sets this patch, and a new empower mechanic, yet these players want to be able to spam heavies on demand with as little effort as possible (like they were doing with double proc sunderflame before double proc seargent's mail) and 1-2 shot people while while spending little to no resources.

Insulting the developers is silly and misguided, because the devs don't simply listen to the loudest people (although they do consider all feedback). The devs look at data, they are not dumb. They know what sets people use, and how effective they are. They can see all kinds of data that regular players can't see, and they make informed decisions based on real data, not on hearsay. This update they also nerfed sheer venom, [snip], but because their data showed that it was over performing. I think both nerfs was the right move, even though I use sheer venom myself.

If you truly love heavy attack builds, there are a ton of new options available that look very fun to use and aren't as cheesy as double procing seargents spam.

"Insulting the developers is silly and misguided"

Could you kindly point to me where an insult was made to the developers?

Btw the new empower mechanic is practically useless for stamina dual wield heavy attack builds.

Urzigurumash

You can get Empower on yourself as a WW, but I'm not surprised it doesn't readily come to mind.

Anyhow I'm glad we can all agree to buff Molten Armaments to 100%. Goodnight!

Arcanasx

Urzigurumash wrote: »

You can get Empower on yourself as a WW, but I'm not surprised it doesn't readily come to mind.

Anyhow I'm glad we can all agree to buff Molten Armaments to 100%. Goodnight!

I thought WWs had a morph that could give allies an empower synergy, but not for themselves, is this not the case? I don't think they can get it by themselves from the WW class kit.

maxjapank

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The loudest people in this thread...

[snip], I always wondered if you actually tested the set yourself? Have you actually tried using Sergeant's in pvp? And if so, were you able to achieve easy kills with it?

[edited for baiting]

Urzigurumash

Pay all my late dues for my guild traders and I'll reveal my OP secret

JK it's not really that good, it's Might of the Lost Legion

Otherwise I agree with everything you wrote, and what you said about it only being functional on DW - keep this change so that it only procs a single time off DW, or WW, or anything, but otherwise buff its tooltip so it's actually a competitive set. If nobody is using it without DW then this seems quite logical. That it's stronger on DK is justifiable, as I explained in my first post in this thread, but on this matter again I admit I'm biased.

Decimus

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The loudest people in this thread are the people who have been "abusing" these sets for the longest time, and they don't want to give up that power. We have two new heavy attack sets this patch, and a new empower mechanic; yet instead of being happy - these players want to be able to spam DW double proc heavies on demand with as little effort as possible (like they were doing with double proc sunderflame before double proc seargent's mail).

Insulting the developers by saying they simply listen to the loudest people is silly and misguided. The devs look at data, they do a thorough analysis, and do not make knee jerk changes. They did not even reply or acknowledge complaints about these double proc HA sets for months. The devs know what sets people use, and how effective they are. They can see all kinds of data that regular players can't see, and they make informed decisions based on real data, not on hearsay. This update they also nerfed sheer venom, [snip], but because their data showed that it was over performing. I think both nerfs were the right move, even though I use sheer venom myself, it was simply too strong.

If you truly love heavy attack builds, there are a ton of options available that look very fun to use and aren't as cheesy as double procing DW seargents spam. I'm personally looking forward to trying out the new 2H arena heavy attack weapon.

"Data" is right there in the original post of this thread, and no they did not look at it at all.

...and same goes for Sheer Venom actually: another pointless nerf when there's dozens of equally (and in some cases better) performing (DoT) procs that people will move on to.

In other words, the nerf only serves to remove Sheer Venom from the meta as it's no longer worth using, but the DoT procs will be just as strong as they used to be as there's still dozens of other strong procs (Way of Fire, Syvarra's, Unfathomable, Unleashed, Maelstrom 2H, BRP Bow etc etc).

Making Sheer Venom only deal as much damage (sometimes less still) as those other brain dead easy to apply sets when you have your target in execute range is not the way to go.


Less options=/=good thing. What they need to change is the whole DoT proc meta for things to get better, or give more classes access to cleanse.


What's even more ridiculous is that Sergeant's Mail was never meta to begin with even, nor was Sunderflame before it. People don't have those even as options anymore and everyone will just run Doylemish, new 2H or the new Explosive Rebuke set which have a lot less counterplay than Sergeant ever did as they require a lot less steps to unlock their full potential.

Counterplay to Sergeant literally being "don't get hit by two dodgeable melee heavy attacks in a row while off balanced (which has 15s cooldown after it's 7s duration)".

StormSlash

maxjapank wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The loudest people in this thread...

[snip], I always wondered if you actually tested the set yourself? Have you actually tried using Sergeant's in pvp? And if so, were you able to achieve easy kills with it?

[edited for baiting]

Agreed

StormSlash

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The loudest people in this thread are the people who have been "abusing" these sets for the longest time, and they don't want to give up that power. We have two new heavy attack sets this patch, and a new empower mechanic; yet instead of being happy - these players want to be able to spam DW double proc heavies on demand with as little effort as possible (like they were doing with double proc sunderflame before double proc seargent's mail).

Insulting the developers by saying they simply listen to the loudest people is silly and misguided. The devs look at data, they do a thorough analysis, and do not make knee jerk changes. They did not even reply or acknowledge complaints about these double proc HA sets for months. The devs know what sets people use, and how effective they are. They can see all kinds of data that regular players can't see, and they make informed decisions based on real data, not on hearsay. This update they also nerfed sheer venom, [snip], but because their data showed that it was over performing. I think both nerfs were the right move, even though I use sheer venom myself, it was simply too strong.

If you truly love heavy attack builds, there are a ton of options available that look very fun to use and aren't as cheesy as double procing DW seargents spam. I'm personally looking forward to trying out the new 2H arena heavy attack weapon.

[edited for baiting]

Quit blowing smoke, if it were just as easy as you say it is we'd have all kinds of people running these sets also where else other than BG's are we seeing these setups and if we do are they performing well?

ssewallb14_ESO

Heavy attack sets aren't even top 10 in overperforming crap this patch, not to mention they're barely competitive niche sets in PvE. Stop trying to ruin borderline sets because you want to nerf 1 player.

kalunte

just a reminder, heavies from DW are faster than any other heavies. not enough to justify a "50% nerf" but, well, you need 1 more second to fully charge a bow heavy attack for exemple.

katorga

Solariken wrote: »

It's hard to compare Sergeant damage with instanced proc sets like Doylemish because Sergeant has no cooldown and rewards you with resource return for proccing, vs some that require you to expend resources to proc or saddled with a cooldown.

Nah. I can do as much damage with a normal proc set and use NO resources, so just as good as returning resources.

Off balance has a cool down.

Heavy attack on anything other than a DK is pointless.

I can do massively more damage with a lightning heavy, return resources, can't be dodged,

Solariken wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

.
It is interesting to hear any form of StamDK called "oppressive" in BGs by PC NA players,

It's the 11-12k+ burst coming in every 2 seconds on top of Fossilize on cooldown and Corrosive every time you try to retaliate.

I'm not saying I want it nerfed but I am saying it's the stuff of nightmares

In the grand scheme of things, this doesn't show up on my recaps with enough frequency to even think about. There are a lot easier ways to get more burst, and they don't depend on being a DK.

What do I care, I'm not a DK, so one less thing to worry about.