Reconstruction Cost Needs To Be Increased

Atherakhia

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

remosito

Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

what did ppl with many chars do to you that you hate them that much???

VaxtinTheWolf

Someone was missing two item slots. For instance you'd be missing 50 more crystals because of Dual Wield/1H&S. So it's technically (14 slots X 25 crystals = 350 total) at the worst end of reconstructing a complete set for some.

Atherakhia

remosito wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

what did ppl with many chars do to you that you hate them that much???

I blame ZOS. Like many, I too have 2 of each class. Unfortunately ZOS has made certain they don't want mag classes in their game, so now I have 2 stamina of every class. Maybe this would force more mag players in the world and once more mag exist perhaps ZOS will make them better?

Circular logic for the win?

Taleof2Cities

Atherakhia wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

what did ppl with many chars do to you that you hate them that much???

I blame ZOS. Like many, I too have 2 of each class. Unfortunately ZOS has made certain they don't want mag classes in their game, so now I have 2 stamina of every class. Maybe this would force more mag players in the world and once more mag exist perhaps ZOS will make them better?

Circular logic for the win?

Can you explain a bit more, @Atherakhia?

There is no bias between Stamina and Magicka when it comes to reconstructing gear.

The "sticker book" contains all possible weapons, armor, and jewelry for calculating the transmute cost ... including Spell Strategist Greatswords and Spriggan's Lightning Staves.

Atherakhia

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

what did ppl with many chars do to you that you hate them that much???

I blame ZOS. Like many, I too have 2 of each class. Unfortunately ZOS has made certain they don't want mag classes in their game, so now I have 2 stamina of every class. Maybe this would force more mag players in the world and once more mag exist perhaps ZOS will make them better?

Circular logic for the win?

Can you explain a bit more, @Atherakhia?

There is no bias between Stamina and Magicka when it comes to reconstructing gear.

The "sticker book" contains all possible weapons, armor, and jewelry for calculating the transmute cost ... including Spell Strategist Greatswords and Spriggan's Lightning Staves.

LOL...

As I said... circular logic.

... people complained that the gear system would be especially harsh to people with alts if the costs went up.
... this is only true if all your alts are using the same gear.
... for this to be true, all your alts are likely the same primary stat and since stamina is at such a significant advantage in overland and PvP, chances are all your alts are stamina.
... the base complaint being if they made mag viable and gave mag fun and exciting sets to use perhaps we wouldn't have a dozen stamina alts and wouldn't need 6 of the same set and we could adopt a progressive cost model for retrieving items from the locker that benefited players who use it more as a storage system and less of a system to gear up alts.

starkerealm

chuynh729 wrote: »

Like I said, the fact that you need every piece of gear from the set hardly matters - because it's only a matter of time before you collect them all. And once you do, farming for gear will be a waste of time when you can just reconstruct for 25 stones.

Except, that's exactly what the situation is on live. Once you've farmed a set to the point where you've literally seen every piece of it drop, you've already seen every piece of it. There really is no point in farming further. You've either gotten the traits you want, or gotten enough of the traits that you want that retraiting the remaining pieces would be cheaper.

Wandering_Immigrant

Even at minimum cost you're looking at 125 crystals to reconstruct a 5 piece set. Your second set brings you to 250, another 50 for your monster set brings it to 300 and of course you'll need a back bar weapon so that's a bare minimum of 325 to gear through reconstruction. Add another 25 for each bar that is either DW or s&b and we can call it 325-375.

Getting that price will be rare though considering how hard it is to farm specific weapons or shields. I don't think most people are gonna wanna run a dungeon hundreds of times just to save a few crystals by getting a weapon they'll never actually use.

This is just one set up on one character. Most characters have at least one gear swap available and most players have more than one character. So you're actually looking at a ton of crystals, not just 25. They upped the crystal rewards in PVE, I assume at least part of that will come from dungeons, so people will be running them just for the crystals.

I also think people will still farm gear. I know when I need an overland set currently I'll usually run through the zone a couple times hoping to get lucky before going to the traders to fill in whatever pieces I still need. I can now take a similar approach to dungeon farming. Run through a couple times, get what I can, then reconn the rest.

Even if there are hardcore grinders who manage to get everything they need to become 100% self-sufficient within a few months and have enough crystals to just reconn everything, there will still be plenty of people doing dungeons. If anything maybe this will cut down on fake tanks speed running through because they've done the same dungeon 100 times today trying to get a specific weapon to drop and just want it to be over already. Maybe.

ealdwin

Alternatively, if the concern is that people won't be running dungeons/trials as much, then perhaps the rewards for running said dungeons/trails needs to be adjusted to make participating in that content repeatedly more worthwhile, instead of relying on gear grinding as the main draw.

starkerealm

ealdwin wrote: »

Alternatively, if the concern is that people won't be running dungeons/trials as much, then perhaps the rewards for running said dungeons/trails needs to be adjusted to make participating in that content repeatedly more worthwhile, instead of relying on gear grinding as the main draw.

As a deranged prediction: I kinda expect this will result in an increase in Dungeon Grinding (for a while) as people try to complete sets they previously junked. Long term, the introduction of new players should keep the dungeon population fairly stable.

@Wandering_Immigrant, you're also skimming over the upgrade costs. Yeah, making Blue 160 jewelry and then upgrading it to purple or gold is not a trivial expense. (Unless there were serious changes to jewelry crafting that I missed.) It's less of a dealbreaker upgrading weapons to gold, and, honestly, armor can sit at purple, but that is a real expense to consider.

MincVinyl

Tbh for a player that only uses maxed out everything on any build i even want to try, the only way ill end up using this system is to get multiple monster sets if for some reason I need them. Not getting upgrade mats back means there is no point in deconstructing or reconstructing ever other than to stop me from potentially griefing new players trying to quest a dungeon I need to farm for a second one hander or monster set.

Apox

this is fine. you still need to farm an entire set to get it that cheap. i dont know if youve ever farmed for a burning spellweave inferno staff but let me tell you theyre *** rare. its not like its guaranteed 25 transmutes.

the cost of transmuting is too high and the source of crystals was too low. theyre finally somewhat fixing both and its a damn good change. let it go man

Johny29_SK

[snip]

[snip]

But to come to the topic .. of course the costs need ro be increased!! And also when I reconstructing something to gold, I dont understand why I dont need the green, blue, violet and gold rosin ? That's dont make sense. When you crafting an item, you also need all this materials to get the item to gold!

Please increase the costs by at least 100 cristals and add the need of the materials by reconstructing items.

Thanks
Johny

[Edit for Baiting.]

Nordic__Knights

Johny29_SK wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

But to come to the topic .. of course the costs need ro be increased!! And also when I reconstructing something to gold, I dont understand why I dont need the green, blue, violet and gold rosin ? That's dont make sense. When you crafting an item, you also need all this materials to get the item to gold!

Please increase the costs by at least 100 cristals and add the need of the materials by reconstructing items.

Thanks
Johny

[Edit for Baiting.]

you must have upgrade mats to make items gold so its trans stones gear mats and upgreaqd mats to make an item not just trans stones

gepe87

Someone fears profit loss in guild vendors...

chuynh729

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Johny29_SK wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

But to come to the topic .. of course the costs need ro be increased!! And also when I reconstructing something to gold, I dont understand why I dont need the green, blue, violet and gold rosin ? That's dont make sense. When you crafting an item, you also need all this materials to get the item to gold!

Please increase the costs by at least 100 cristals and add the need of the materials by reconstructing items.

Thanks
Johny

[Edit for Baiting.]

you must have upgrade mats to make items gold so its trans stones gear mats and upgreaqd mats to make an item not just trans stones

a slight correction, only upgrade mats & transmute stones.
mats (ounces, silk, etc) & trait stones (nirncrux) are not needed.

Apox wrote: »

this is fine. you still need to farm an entire set to get it that cheap. i dont know if youve ever farmed for a burning spellweave inferno staff but let me tell you theyre *** rare. its not like its guaranteed 25 transmutes.

the cost of transmuting is too high and the source of crystals was too low. theyre finally somewhat fixing both and its a damn good change. let it go man

I never went out of my way to farm for the staff, but I do have it. Typically it's only the last 1-3 pieces from a set that are a pain to farm. Even with 3 missing pieces it's still a cost of 30 or so transmute stones which is still low.

Still, I realize I might've underestimated the amount of time it'll take to get every piece of a set to get the reduced cost of 25 stones. Rather than increasing the minimum cost to 100, I think it'll be better to increase it to just 75, and the maximum cost to 100. The reduced gap means there'll still be an incentive to farm every piece to reduce the cost, but it won't feel as punishing if you reconstruct without having collected every piece.

Transmute cost was never too high imo. It's meant to be used on hard to get gear such as Arena weapons & monster sets. It was never meant to be used to transmute a whole set to BiS traits, but the reconstruction system with its current cost will potentially allow you to efficiently do that, without even needing the set of gear.
Transmute crystal source is only low in PvE, and they are looking to increase it which I think is great.

starkerealm

chuynh729 wrote: »

I never went out of my way to farm for the staff, but I do have it.

That is absurdly lucky. I say this as someone who's had the BSW BBQ stick drop at least three times, once at level 48.

chuynh729 wrote: »

Typically it's only the last 1-3 pieces from a set that are a pain to farm. Even with 3 missing pieces it's still a cost of 30 or so transmute stones which is still low.

I think that's the point. No, seriously, I think the low cost is the point.

So, a major, longstanding, issue with ESO has been inventory pressure. Our inventories have been getting more, and more, cluttered over the years. Each DLC has brought with it significant changes to existing sets, and the addition of new ones. If a set was useless a couple patches ago, and you deconned everything associated with it, but now it's suddenly useful to your build, you have to go back in and refarm the parts you need.

This is a long term solution.

Instead of us collecting more items, we're looking to unlock a collection set. At that point, a major portion of this is to get us to break down stuff in our inventories that we're not using. Tear up the old sets we've been holding onto on the idea that, maybe, someday, it will be useful.

It also alleviates some of the grind from getting a new character to 50, and having to gear them up. If we already have gear for them, great, but a lot of the time, it means going out and chasing specific drops all over again.

So, let's run some numbers. With the costs as they exist on live, if you take a new character to level 50 and want to gear them up, that will cost somewhere between 300 and 1050 crystals. (Now, it will never actually hit 1050, and will probably cap out at around 910 in realistic circumstances, but that's the theoretical upper limit.) 300's a reasonable amount of grind, 1000 crystals is pretty crazy.

And, yeah, the purpose is to get us to stop carrying so much crap in our inventories and clean those out a bit. At least scrap all the sets we're not using, and may never use.

I think 25 is a pretty reasonable crystal cost for someone who's done a lot of grinding. Now, it does create a fairly complicated question over when you want to scrap items vs when you want to retrait actual drops. Retraiting costs more crystals, but reconstituting requires upgrade materials. I'm not 100% convinced that those options are entirely equivalent. (Jewelry heavily favors retraiting, while the other three favor reconstruction, in my opinion), but there is a legitimate decision to make here.

Given the free limit is 500, and the ESO+ limit is 1k, I think the current prices are calculated around the idea that you'll have most of a set, and then if some balance change hits, you'll be able to afford to pull a complete lineup of gear from storage to keep your character playable, while you work up the crystals for your alts.

Moving the floor up to 75 or 100, would push the "best case," 12 loadout to 900 crystals, well outside the reach of anyone but the most dedicated grinders with ESO+, and have the potential to create situations where players could be left without a solid gear setup if existing sets are heavily retooled.

Now, the thing about this that does worry me is, it opens the door to further reworks similar to what happened with Eternal and Immortal Warrior. I'm not wild about the idea that this will lead to even more impermanence with existing sets. If that's what's going to happen, then that 25 crystal cost will add up fast.

Right now, the system feels like it's designed to be a slightly more inconvenient option for gear storage. If we want the inventory slots for other things, we can just, straight up, junk some armor, and then spend the crystals if we want that back a couple years down the road.

chuynh729

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

I never went out of my way to farm for the staff, but I do have it.

That is absurdly lucky. I say this as someone who's had the BSW BBQ stick drop at least three times, once at level 48.

chuynh729 wrote: »

Typically it's only the last 1-3 pieces from a set that are a pain to farm. Even with 3 missing pieces it's still a cost of 30 or so transmute stones which is still low.

I think that's the point. No, seriously, I think the low cost is the point.

So, a major, longstanding, issue with ESO has been inventory pressure. Our inventories have been getting more, and more, cluttered over the years. Each DLC has brought with it significant changes to existing sets, and the addition of new ones. If a set was useless a couple patches ago, and you deconned everything associated with it, but now it's suddenly useful to your build, you have to go back in and refarm the parts you need.

This is a long term solution.

Instead of us collecting more items, we're looking to unlock a collection set. At that point, a major portion of this is to get us to break down stuff in our inventories that we're not using. Tear up the old sets we've been holding onto on the idea that, maybe, someday, it will be useful.

It also alleviates some of the grind from getting a new character to 50, and having to gear them up. If we already have gear for them, great, but a lot of the time, it means going out and chasing specific drops all over again.

So, let's run some numbers. With the costs as they exist on live, if you take a new character to level 50 and want to gear them up, that will cost somewhere between 300 and 1050 crystals. (Now, it will never actually hit 1050, and will probably cap out at around 910 in realistic circumstances, but that's the theoretical upper limit.) 300's a reasonable amount of grind, 1000 crystals is pretty crazy.

And, yeah, the purpose is to get us to stop carrying so much crap in our inventories and clean those out a bit. At least scrap all the sets we're not using, and may never use.

I think 25 is a pretty reasonable crystal cost for someone who's done a lot of grinding. Now, it does create a fairly complicated question over when you want to scrap items vs when you want to retrait actual drops. Retraiting costs more crystals, but reconstituting requires upgrade materials. I'm not 100% convinced that those options are entirely equivalent. (Jewelry heavily favors retraiting, while the other three favor reconstruction, in my opinion), but there is a legitimate decision to make here.

Given the free limit is 500, and the ESO+ limit is 1k, I think the current prices are calculated around the idea that you'll have most of a set, and then if some balance change hits, you'll be able to afford to pull a complete lineup of gear from storage to keep your character playable, while you work up the crystals for your alts.

Moving the floor up to 75 or 100, would push the "best case," 12 loadout to 900 crystals, well outside the reach of anyone but the most dedicated grinders with ESO+, and have the potential to create situations where players could be left without a solid gear setup if existing sets are heavily retooled.

Now, the thing about this that does worry me is, it opens the door to further reworks similar to what happened with Eternal and Immortal Warrior. I'm not wild about the idea that this will lead to even more impermanence with existing sets. If that's what's going to happen, then that 25 crystal cost will add up fast.

Right now, the system feels like it's designed to be a slightly more inconvenient option for gear storage. If we want the inventory slots for other things, we can just, straight up, junk some armor, and then spend the crystals if we want that back a couple years down the road.

If that is the main goal, I feel like the system could've been designed differently to achieve that goal.

ie: After deconstructing x amount of an item with y trait, you can reconstruct the the same item x amount of times with y trait, at the same quality (?).
The cost for reconstruction would be reduced to 5 stones flat.

The current system seems to better fulfill the purpose of replacing gear farming, more so than to allow for easy reconstruction of previously obtained gear.

Xebov

chuynh729 wrote: »

The current system seems to better fulfill the purpose of replacing gear farming, more so than to allow for easy reconstruction of previously obtained gear.

You seem to ignore or miss some parts in your argument.

Gear farming will increase for quite some time until everyone has finished their collections. You need to have at least 50% of it to even come close to the cost of transmutation. Thats alot of efford required.
After that its a question of "How much Transmute Crystals can you get?". The idea that players will use it as a replacement would require crystals to be easily available in large quantitites. Keep in mind that a full gear set costs requires 12-14 items and costs 300-350 crystals best case. I doubt that crystal drop rates would raise enought to make this viable. Its much more likely that it will be used like transmutation where you farm some pieces and just print the missing ones.
Besides it should also be noted that players would still farm in the end. You either farm for gear, or for crystals and in the current situation alot of players already farming for crystals doing the pledges.

Saubon

I see no point in spending ton of shards for 5 exact copies of my favorite sets for my alts. Personally I'm gonna use it as bank space saver, it will be great for any meta swing.
And if someone plans to farm dungeons 50 times and do 100 trial farm runs of something as boring as vSS, then he deserves it to be cheap.

idk

This system is intended to be a convenience, not an inconvenience. That is why the cost of reconstruction is not higher, nor should be. I think maybe OP misses some of the other costs such as only one upgrade matt can be returned when a reconstructed piece is deconstructed. That alone means we will not be constructing and deconstructing gear constantly. It really is that simple.

chuynh729

Xebov wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

The current system seems to better fulfill the purpose of replacing gear farming, more so than to allow for easy reconstruction of previously obtained gear.

You seem to ignore or miss some parts in your argument.

Gear farming will increase for quite some time until everyone has finished their collections. You need to have at least 50% of it to even come close to the cost of transmutation. Thats alot of efford required.
After that its a question of "How much Transmute Crystals can you get?". The idea that players will use it as a replacement would require crystals to be easily available in large quantitites. Keep in mind that a full gear set costs requires 12-14 items and costs 300-350 crystals best case. I doubt that crystal drop rates would raise enought to make this viable. Its much more likely that it will be used like transmutation where you farm some pieces and just print the missing ones.
Besides it should also be noted that players would still farm in the end. You either farm for gear, or for crystals and in the current situation alot of players already farming for crystals doing the pledges.

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.
And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.
PvP (err... PvWall) still is a far greater source of transmute stones than PvE even with the transmute crystal increase from PvE. People who understand this will probably not rely on pledges for crystals.

idk wrote: »

This system is intended to be a convenience, not an inconvenience. That is why the cost of reconstruction is not higher, nor should be. I think maybe OP misses some of the other costs such as only one upgrade matt can be returned when a reconstructed piece is deconstructed. That alone means we will not be constructing and deconstructing gear constantly. It really is that simple.

Uhm... isn't that how it already is for any piece of gear you deconstruct? How is this even an argument or justification for the low cost? If you get all upgrade mats back from deconstructing that would be ridiculous. Dreugh wax would drop to 2k gold, if even.

UrbanMonk

1. To construct an item, 1st you need to have it.
2. Once I have the item, why would I farm for it again, ill just transmute it if trait is not what i wanted.. and I can make a copy of it, if ever needed.

Even woth ability of making copies of gear, I'd not make another gold piece of same gear for different toon. I'll just out it in bank and get it out on another.

This system does not reduce the grind to get a certain piece, but helps you to declutter your inventory with all the trash you got during the farm and may or may not need it in near future.
Saves you a lot of time to reform those trash items if they become ever good.

So gear grind is not going anywhere but inventory management is becoming easier.

zaria

gepe87 wrote: »

Someone fears profit loss in guild vendors...

Only overland jewelry its worth to upgrade to purple is briarheart, others are cheaper to buy.
You can buy cheap weapons with bad traits and change the trait today.
Granted this system will make dungeon and trial set easier to get on alts who reduce use of overland and crafted.

universal_wrath

chuynh729 wrote: »

This might be an unpopular opinion.

But I don't understand why the ability to create any gear, with any trait, should cost only 25 transmute stones (and no trait stones). Right now, simply just altering the trait of an already existing item costs 50 transmute stones. With such a low cost, wouldn't this new system make the current transmutation system pointless?

I understand 25 transmute stones is the cost only if you've unlocked every piece of gear from the set. But in my opinion, that "downside" is largely irrelevant because it would only be a matter of time before people get to that point. Part of the fun of this game (and every MMO) is the grind - few things make me as excited as when the last piece of gear I needed finally drops. The reconstruction system will be fun for the first few weeks when people are still collecting gear. But afterwards, a large part of the motivation for doing dungeons, trials, or other content will be almost entirely gone because they can simply "craft" the gear. It'll be a grind for transmute stones. Why spend 20-30 minutes running a dungeon or trial when I can get tier 1 in Cyrodiil campaign and be guaranteed any 2 pieces of a gear set with BiS trait in the same amount of time?

Don't get me wrong - I think the recollection & reconstruction systems are amazing. I can finally clear my bank of the 300 pieces of gear that I saved without worrying about "what if" scenarios.
Sometimes the grind for a single piece of gear is so bad that I don't even feel happy when I finally get it - but rather, "finally, what a **** waste of time". I would love to have the option to avoid those kind of grinds. But I also want the cost to be significant enough that I actually have to think about whether or not it's worth the transmute stones. With a cost of only 25 stones, which is literally half the cost of transmuting an off-trait weapon, the choice is obvious. Getting the weapon you're looking for already requires luck. But you'll also need to roll the right trait to make running the content worth it over simply reconstructing it, because transmuting costs double the amount of stones.

I think a minimum cost of somewhere around 100 transmute stones to reconstruct an item would be much better.

Least fun part of the game for most people I think is the grind, only few people injoy it. I believe some of the reasons for the new system is to help people grind less and be open to and try new builds becauae they have qccess to most sets. If the cost of the sets to be high, most people would grind instead of reconstracting, and this would only reinforce existing meta, because people don't want to waste their time trying new things. Every once in a while someone come up with build idea but never go through with it, mostly because they need to grind and transmute, so they end up theory crafting instead of testing.

Another thing is, for some reason I'm finding hard to collect transmute stones as I used to be a few patches ago, not sure if they deceased the trabsmute stone drop rate or what. I had many gold transmute bags but I don't remmember when was last time I got more than 4 stones per gold bag. I believe gold ahould drop atleast 15 and purple 5 not 1or 2, because that is what I got most of the times. Not every is hard try or grinder that can get 200 stones in a week. I need about a week to get 40-50 with constant play and I'm sure many people are the same. The need for grind will never fade away. If this 25 still remain as it is, I myself would grind most of the sets pieces I need and reconstruc the hard to get one or remaining part to complete what I have.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

starkerealm

universal_wrath wrote: »

If the cost of the sets to be high, most people would grind instead of reconstracting...

Probably, slightly, more accurate to say that, if the reconstruction costs are too high, people simply wouldn't use the system in the first place. They'd keep, or retrait, the gear they have instead, and the bank hoarding (which this is designed to combat) would continue unaffected.

starkerealm

chuynh729 wrote: »

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.

This is, mostly, a semantic difference. Except for one critical detail. Crystal grinding is a (mostly) consistent grind. You may not get exactly the quantity you wanted, but you'll get something and make progress. Gear grind can be an exercise in frustration.

chuynh729 wrote: »

And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.

For the most part, I agree. I suspect the primary use will be for someone to fill out missing parts of a set if they go back and regrind it.

A major portion of this is focused on alleviating inventory pressure. How many people were caught off guard when sheer venom, a set they may have accidentally farmed years ago while chasing after Scathing Mage, but junked because it was trash? This is the kind of thing this system is designed to counter. If you're like me, and saved a full 5pc Scathing Mage Sheer Venom because, "it might be useful," then great, you rolled the dice and won. However, it's very likely, you've also got another 800 inventory slots chewed up by sets that may never be useful on the idea of, "well, maybe this will be important some day," or, "I might need this for a tank," or even just, "this specific piece of this set is a pain to get, so I'll hold onto it, even if it doesn't work at all right now." (Ex: the Ebon 1h and shields I kept, in spite of the set being bugged for years if you had it on a weapon bar.)

This isn't designed to remove grind, or even ease grind. It's designed to standardize regrinding.

Remember, you can't reconstitute a piece you've never held. This is only a safeguard against, "I had an incredibly niche item, but I deconned it for space, but because of this last patch, it's important again," and, "I rolled an alt, and don't want to grind for another copy of this improbably rare drop." (Ex: BSW BBQ sticks, Maelstrom weapons, ect.)

The entire point of the system is a kind of inventory, "deep storage," and that goal starts to fail if it becomes cost prohibitive to pull things out of collections.

EDIT: Meant to type Sheer instead of Scathing there, though I suppose it works either way if Scathing ever becomes useful again.

heaven13

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.

This is, mostly, a semantic difference. Except for one critical detail. Crystal grinding is a (mostly) consistent grind. You may not get exactly the quantity you wanted, but you'll get something and make progress. Gear grind can be an exercise in frustration.

chuynh729 wrote: »

And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.

For the most part, I agree. I suspect the primary use will be for someone to fill out missing parts of a set if they go back and regrind it.

A major portion of this is focused on alleviating inventory pressure. How many people were caught off guard when sheer venom, a set they may have accidentally farmed years ago while chasing after Scathing Mage, but junked because it was trash? This is the kind of thing this system is designed to counter. If you're like me, and saved a full 5pc Scathing Mage Sheer Venom because, "it might be useful," then great, you rolled the dice and won. However, it's very likely, you've also got another 800 inventory slots chewed up by sets that may never be useful on the idea of, "well, maybe this will be important some day," or, "I might need this for a tank," or even just, "this specific piece of this set is a pain to get, so I'll hold onto it, even if it doesn't work at all right now." (Ex: the Ebon 1h and shields I kept, in spite of the set being bugged for years if you had it on a weapon bar.)

This isn't designed to remove grind, or even ease grind. It's designed to standardize regrinding.

Remember, you can't reconstitute a piece you've never held. This is only a safeguard against, "I had an incredibly niche item, but I deconned it for space, but because of this last patch, it's important again," and, "I rolled an alt, and don't want to grind for another copy of this improbably rare drop." (Ex: BSW BBQ sticks, Maelstrom weapons, ect.)

The entire point of the system is a kind of inventory, "deep storage," and that goal starts to fail if it becomes cost prohibitive to pull things out of collections.

EDIT: Meant to type Sheer instead of Scathing there, though I suppose it works either way if Scathing ever becomes useful again.

Exactly. For example, I've got a one hand and shield of worm. The content that I've seen this set used by a tank is vAS but I've never tanked that trial, because the groups I run with generally have more tanks than spots needed for tanks. The likelihood of me running that content, in that role, with a group optimized for me wearing that set is slim but I haven't wanted to dump the gear, just in case. Now I'll be able to.

chuynh729

universal_wrath wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

This might be an unpopular opinion.

But I don't understand why the ability to create any gear, with any trait, should cost only 25 transmute stones (and no trait stones). Right now, simply just altering the trait of an already existing item costs 50 transmute stones. With such a low cost, wouldn't this new system make the current transmutation system pointless?

I understand 25 transmute stones is the cost only if you've unlocked every piece of gear from the set. But in my opinion, that "downside" is largely irrelevant because it would only be a matter of time before people get to that point. Part of the fun of this game (and every MMO) is the grind - few things make me as excited as when the last piece of gear I needed finally drops. The reconstruction system will be fun for the first few weeks when people are still collecting gear. But afterwards, a large part of the motivation for doing dungeons, trials, or other content will be almost entirely gone because they can simply "craft" the gear. It'll be a grind for transmute stones. Why spend 20-30 minutes running a dungeon or trial when I can get tier 1 in Cyrodiil campaign and be guaranteed any 2 pieces of a gear set with BiS trait in the same amount of time?

Don't get me wrong - I think the recollection & reconstruction systems are amazing. I can finally clear my bank of the 300 pieces of gear that I saved without worrying about "what if" scenarios.
Sometimes the grind for a single piece of gear is so bad that I don't even feel happy when I finally get it - but rather, "finally, what a **** waste of time". I would love to have the option to avoid those kind of grinds. But I also want the cost to be significant enough that I actually have to think about whether or not it's worth the transmute stones. With a cost of only 25 stones, which is literally half the cost of transmuting an off-trait weapon, the choice is obvious. Getting the weapon you're looking for already requires luck. But you'll also need to roll the right trait to make running the content worth it over simply reconstructing it, because transmuting costs double the amount of stones.

I think a minimum cost of somewhere around 100 transmute stones to reconstruct an item would be much better.

Least fun part of the game for most people I think is the grind, only few people injoy it. I believe some of the reasons for the new system is to help people grind less and be open to and try new builds becauae they have qccess to most sets. If the cost of the sets to be high, most people would grind instead of reconstracting, and this would only reinforce existing meta, because people don't want to waste their time trying new things. Every once in a while someone come up with build idea but never go through with it, mostly because they need to grind and transmute, so they end up theory crafting instead of testing.

Another thing is, for some reason I'm finding hard to collect transmute stones as I used to be a few patches ago, not sure if they deceased the trabsmute stone drop rate or what. I had many gold transmute bags but I don't remmember when was last time I got more than 4 stones per gold bag. I believe gold ahould drop atleast 15 and purple 5 not 1or 2, because that is what I got most of the times. Not every is hard try or grinder that can get 200 stones in a week. I need about a week to get 40-50 with constant play and I'm sure many people are the same. The need for grind will never fade away. If this 25 still remain as it is, I myself would grind most of the sets pieces I need and reconstruc the hard to get one or remaining part to complete what I have.

I think the reconstruction system should help ease the grind .I don't think it should have the potential to almost entirely replace it. A cost of 25 stones per piece will potentially do just that, save for certain jewelry sets that drop in purple.

I do realize a cost of 100 is a bit high. When I came up with that cost I was mostly considering the amount of crystals you can get from Cyrodiil, which is 50 per character by simply getting 25k AP in each campaign (which takes 30mins or so). Perhaps a minimum cost of 60 and maximum cost of 80 stones would be more fair.

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.

This is, mostly, a semantic difference. Except for one critical detail. Crystal grinding is a (mostly) consistent grind. You may not get exactly the quantity you wanted, but you'll get something and make progress. Gear grind can be an exercise in frustration.

chuynh729 wrote: »

And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.

For the most part, I agree. I suspect the primary use will be for someone to fill out missing parts of a set if they go back and regrind it.

A major portion of this is focused on alleviating inventory pressure. How many people were caught off guard when sheer venom, a set they may have accidentally farmed years ago while chasing after Scathing Mage, but junked because it was trash? This is the kind of thing this system is designed to counter. If you're like me, and saved a full 5pc Scathing Mage Sheer Venom because, "it might be useful," then great, you rolled the dice and won. However, it's very likely, you've also got another 800 inventory slots chewed up by sets that may never be useful on the idea of, "well, maybe this will be important some day," or, "I might need this for a tank," or even just, "this specific piece of this set is a pain to get, so I'll hold onto it, even if it doesn't work at all right now." (Ex: the Ebon 1h and shields I kept, in spite of the set being bugged for years if you had it on a weapon bar.)

This isn't designed to remove grind, or even ease grind. It's designed to standardize regrinding.

Remember, you can't reconstitute a piece you've never held. This is only a safeguard against, "I had an incredibly niche item, but I deconned it for space, but because of this last patch, it's important again," and, "I rolled an alt, and don't want to grind for another copy of this improbably rare drop." (Ex: BSW BBQ sticks, Maelstrom weapons, ect.)

The entire point of the system is a kind of inventory, "deep storage," and that goal starts to fail if it becomes cost prohibitive to pull things out of collections.

EDIT: Meant to type Sheer instead of Scathing there, though I suppose it works either way if Scathing ever becomes useful again.

If that is the goal of the reconstruction system, then the system could've been designed differently to better accomplish that goal without having the potential to almost entirely replace gear farming.

ie: After deconstructing x amount of an item with y trait, you can reconstruct the the same item x amount of times with y trait, at the same quality (?).
The cost for reconstruction would be reduced to 5 stones flat.