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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Penetration in PvE in U28
xI_The_Owl_Ix
✭✭✭✭✭
I feel like penetration in PvE U28 will be off the charts with pierce armor applying minor and major breach and the buffs to both of these debuffs.
PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
Edited by xI_The_Owl_Ix on October 4, 2020 2:30PM PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
1
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mag dds dont put points into pen, or depending on uptimes, very little points. Mag dds usually have at most 1k pen from CP or in case of mag necro none since they overpen without any points into pen. Depending on group setup and uptimes all mag dds might have 0 points in pen.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I feel like penetration in PvE U28 will be off the charts with pierce armor applying minor and major breach and the buffs to both of these debuffs.
PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
Pen cap is 18200 but you can always put less points in Spell Erosion.
Secondly, killing Alkosh was a change desired by so many tanks. If there was somebody liking wearing Alkosh on his tank like you, that a was a very small minority.Edited by Olupajmibanan on October 4, 2020 2:34PM12 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I feel like penetration in PvE U28 will be off the charts with pierce armor applying minor and major breach and the buffs to both of these debuffs.
PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
Pen cap is 18200 but you can always put less points in Spell Erosion.
Secondly, killing Alkosh was a change desired by so many tanks. If there was somebody liking wearing Alkosh on his tank like you, that a was a very small minority.
The majority of tanks (old tank class rep programme discord) loved that set. I dont think it was a very small minority.5 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah we already left the feedback on pierce armor, tbh even if it wasnt on that skill, people would just source minor breach to templar etc.0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's good. Alkosh is meta since way to much time, good to have some more option.
It will not be dead, still nice on trash and still can be used, just switch crusher with weakening for exemple.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]3 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think their intention with increasing penetration sources this patch is to lower the amount of group min-maxing required to jump into trials and dungeons. It might also be to help kill tanks in PvP but they never state their intentions so we won't know what these changes are for. They could turn around and nerf all sources of Pen in the next future update for all we know.7 -
satanio✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I feel like penetration in PvE U28 will be off the charts with pierce armor applying minor and major breach and the buffs to both of these debuffs.
PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
Pen cap is 18200 but you can always put less points in Spell Erosion.
Secondly, killing Alkosh was a change desired by so many tanks. If there was somebody liking wearing Alkosh on his tank like you, that a was a very small minority.
The majority of tanks (old tank class rep programme discord) loved that set. I dont think it was a very small minority.
Just an effect of taking away the most used toy that someone was using really often even if the toy is very ugly. It is not the fate of tank, to wear Alkosh. The ultimate goal is to support the group in the best possible way there is.
The "need" for this support to be set called Alkosh is nonhealthy.
What does really change for the tanks?
Nothing, tanks in stam setups can still wear it if the group wants to (and it will be the most optimal way), tanks in mag setups can use other useful sets (and there are plenty of useful support sets). What is the problem? Set is not dead. Just not BIS in every situation.3 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭As an (unwilling) tank main, I don't see Alkosh going anywhere. If it allows Stam to pen cap without CP, it'll still be used.2 -
JohnOfMarkarth✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I feel like penetration in PvE U28 will be off the charts with pierce armor applying minor and major breach and the buffs to both of these debuffs.
PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
Pen cap is 18200 but you can always put less points in Spell Erosion.
Secondly, killing Alkosh was a change desired by so many tanks. If there was somebody liking wearing Alkosh on his tank like you, that a was a very small minority.
The majority of tanks (old tank class rep programme discord) loved that set. I dont think it was a very small minority.
aaah... id argue we didnt love it much. Majority of us... used it... a lot. But that we loved it? I certainly didnt.I can't do this anymore. Every small ... petit change that went against any semblance of sense has snowballed into an avalanche of (Penn & Teller:) Bulls...!
Gods, bless me with patience.5 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Finedaible wrote: »I think their intention with increasing penetration sources this patch is to lower the amount of group min-maxing required to jump into trials and dungeons. It might also be to help kill tanks in PvP but they never state their intentions so we won't know what these changes are for. They could turn around and nerf all sources of Pen in the next future update for all we know.
I think you nailed it, trial min/maxers and PVP complainers seem to be favorite of Devs. Although I am leaning more to Devs appeasing the PVPers who have been whining for quite a while that they can't kill tanky players fast enough because they have too much resistance. But I think this will allow tanky build to dish out more damage too so 1 month after this change goes into effect I predict PVPers on forums complaining about tanky players being too powerful and needing NERF.2 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mettaricana wrote: »Thank god i can scrap alkosh now!
Might want to wait a few weeks until the collections system drops. That way you’ll be prepared when they accidentally make it a thing again.3 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When all the penetration debuffs are applied to the trial dummy, mag characters with 0 points in Spell Erosion will still be over-penetrating by about 1.4k with the light armor passive alone.4 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭When all the penetration debuffs are applied to the trial dummy, mag characters with 0 points in Spell Erosion will still be over-penetrating by about 1.4k with the light armor passive alone.
Should armor passives be reworked because of the changes to crit and penetration. Yes.
Is your example a bad thing in a real combat scenario? Not really, at least not by that much. It's okay to over penetrate a little, you're not going to have 100% uptime on all mobs, all the time. Crusher only hits 1 enemy at a time with a cd, so if it hits the wrong target, you need to wait anyway.
Similar thing with Minor Breach since there is no aoe minor breach option, tank has to apply it to 1 target at a time.
Alkosh is also on that target dummy and as others mentioned in this thread, some tanks might replace it if they can offer the group more with something else. I think that may be the case for Mag groups more often because of the light armor passive and how high CP diminishing returns are at for mag comps.. 11-20 points in pen is going to offer you a lot more raw stats vs the additional damage you'd put anywhere else.
I think this accomplishes exactly what they set out to do in a good way. You don't need a super well optimized group to hit pen cap which effectively raises the floor and lowers the ceiling, while also adding further versatility to tanking set options in the same stroke.
But yeah. Templars need a rework for group utility. Pierce Armor is a little over loaded. Light Armor and Medium Armor needs some adjustments if crit and pen will become universal within this update cycle. (Hopefully we see that on tomorrows patch, not sure if they commented on it yet).PC Beta - 1900+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Personally i'm super happy to ditch alkosh. I always hated it as a tank set.
I'd much rather run this for trash:
Dragon's Defilement
2 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
5 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health, When you take damage from a melee attack, gain a corrupting aura for 5 seconds that applies Minor Fracture and Minor Breach to all enemies near you, lowering their Physical and Spell Resistance by 1320. This effect can occur every 5 seconds.
caltrops now applies major breach in a huge aoe, so I expect to see tanks running that for trash pulls from now on.Edited by Tannus15 on October 4, 2020 10:40PM3 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When all the penetration debuffs are applied to the trial dummy, mag characters with 0 points in Spell Erosion will still be over-penetrating by about 1.4k with the light armor passive alone.
On dummy you will over penn but in actual content you may wanna use stam toon next patch. Mag got nerfed and is behind stam 10k or more with some classes.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just me but I think all the changes being made to the major and minor buffs are for the upcoming removal of CP system.
Be safe and have fun
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Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just me but I think all the changes being made to the major and minor buffs are for the upcoming removal of CP system.
Be safe and have fun
Will never happen. A rework ? Probably, a suppression ? I highly doubt.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]1 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »The majority of tanks (old tank class rep programme discord) loved that set. I dont think it was a very small minority.
Why would you love a set, that doesn't give you any benefits? This set always was completely useless for a tank.
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Why would you love a set, that doesn't give you any benefits? This set always was completely useless for a tank.
It gives you something to do. Tanking in ESO without or with very little debuffing is super boring.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭Just me but I think all the changes being made to the major and minor buffs are for the upcoming removal of CP system.
Be safe and have fun
U are almost right. Rich stated that they need to change a lot of stuff before the "reworked cp sys" can go live, wich seems to be hitting us with the next chapter. I think its safe to expect for the next 2 pts cycles (for u29 and u 30) some more significant changes. All i hope for is that they look at class again and the availability of some major/minor buffs now that they all have new values.1 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »It gives you something to do. Tanking in ESO without or with very little debuffing is super boring.
Tanks should do lots of buffing/debuffing, of course, but that doesn't explain, how you can like a set, that doesn't help your tanking at all?
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AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I feel like penetration in PvE U28 will be off the charts with pierce armor applying minor and major breach and the buffs to both of these debuffs.
PvE penetration is capped at 18k.
You get:
- 6k from Major Breach
- 3k from Minor Breach
- 2k from Crusher Enchant
The averge DD also has 4k pen from CP.
Mag Chars in Light Armor also get another 4k. Bringing the penetration for mag Chars to 19k pen (overpenning in PvE)
If you have stamina Chars in the trial you can also use Tremorscale which gives an addition 2,4k pen. With one sharpened you get like 4k pen as well which again bring the pen to cap.
These changes kill off Alkosh in PvE which is a shame considering its my favourite tanking set in the game.
Pen cap is 18200 but you can always put less points in Spell Erosion.
Secondly, killing Alkosh was a change desired by so many tanks. If there was somebody liking wearing Alkosh on his tank like you, that a was a very small minority.
No respectable end game tank dislikes wearing Alkosh. Plus with jewellery trait changes you are able to customise it anywhere you want and after Summerset it became even better and less of a burden.PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat1 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭AgaTheGreat wrote: »No respectable end game tank dislikes wearing Alkosh...
That's just nonsense. Of course you can wear Alkosh, but literally all the bonuses are useless for you as a tank. So again - why would you like this set?
7 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »The majority of tanks (old tank class rep programme discord) loved that set. I dont think it was a very small minority.
Why would you love a set, that doesn't give you any benefits? This set always was completely useless for a tank.
like @Sanguinor2 said, it gives me something to do. I need to time my Alkosh procs for the best uptime etc. You can pretty much tank most of the game with only pressing block and taunting from time to time. Which is boring to me, Alkosh is a fun minigame I can do while "tanking".
Sets like:
Just seem boring to me because I dont have to do anything actively, just block/taunt and get hit. It encourages boring and lazy gameplay from a tanks perspective.5 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health, When you take damage from a melee attack, gain a corrupting aura for 5 seconds that applies Minor Fracture and Minor Breach to all enemies near you, lowering their Physical and Spell Resistance by 1320. This effect can occur every 5 seconds.Edited by xI_The_Owl_Ix on October 5, 2020 12:36PM0 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭AgaTheGreat wrote: »No respectable end game tank dislikes wearing Alkosh...
That's just nonsense. Of course you can wear Alkosh, but literally all the bonuses are useless for you as a tank. So again - why would you like this set?
Because its not about the tank, its about the group. And this set is purely about the team as a WHOLE. And all you folks saying Alkosh is dead are the same people that scream murder after ANY small changes are made. Alkosh will ABSOLUTELY still be used.~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~2 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭itsfatbass wrote: »Because its not about the tank, its about the group. And this set is purely about the team as a WHOLE. And all you folks saying Alkosh is dead are the same people that scream murder after ANY small changes are made. Alkosh will ABSOLUTELY still be used.
I'm not saying Alkosh is dead, only that it has useless bonuses for a tank. That makes it a stupid set for a tank in general. Of course it does make it more exciting to use non tanking sets only. Tank VKA in Jorvulds and MA/WM --> great support and no boredom guaranteed.
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alkosh will still be used in trash pulls since it's an AoE debuff, and since console doesn't have dressing room addon it will likely be used for full runs.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭AgaTheGreat wrote: »No respectable end game tank dislikes wearing Alkosh...
That's just nonsense. Of course you can wear Alkosh, but literally all the bonuses are useless for you as a tank. So again - why would you like this set?
I like any set that buffs the damage of the group. Also I don't understand how you can find alkosh a hindrance to tanking. It literally doesn't give you any disadvantage. On the contrary - it's beneficial. Anything that makes fights shorter is great for tanks. Shorter fights mean less pressure.
Let's talk about bonuses. Weapon damage for example is useless for a tank? You know every role in the group provides some DPS, right? As a DK tank - your spammable is going to have a bigger value (stone giant) because you're essentially wearing a dps set.
Even if alkosh becomes redundant - you're going to wear powerful assault, another medium armour set. Are you going to cry about "it doesn't do anything for the tank" again?
How about tanks wearing full medium armour sets - PA & Alkosh. Or morag tong and alkosh.
That's why you have jewellery traits to help you out and customise the pieces to your tanking style.PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat1 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭All I try to say is - how can you like a set, that is not designed for a tank - or in other words, wouldn't people prefer to have more real tank support sets e.g. an Alkosh with tanking relevant bonuses?
I'm talking about content, where a proper tank is needed btw., not "half" tanks in light/medium armour.5