Harrowstorms are an unfun step backwards: a couple months later

Lord-Otto

I have the mechanics figured out, it's not exactly rocket science. Problem is, I've seen the Red Ring of Death mechanic over 9000 times now and wish ZOS could come up with something new for a change.

Wing

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I have the mechanics figured out, it's not exactly rocket science. Problem is, I've seen the Red Ring of Death mechanic over 9000 times now and wish ZOS could come up with something new for a change.

but how do you know if its scary if people are not dead?

Lord-Otto

Wing wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I have the mechanics figured out, it's not exactly rocket science. Problem is, I've seen the Red Ring of Death mechanic over 9000 times now and wish ZOS could come up with something new for a change.

but how do you know if its scary if people are not dead?

They could pin a photo of me with uncombed hair on a pike? That's be effing TERRIFYING!

Hallothiel

There is. The HS with spikes up have a red stone charging in the middle, and a red laser-like line going from it into the sky. The HS which have the main boss up no longer have it, they just have dark funnel going into the ground It's not exactly map icon but given you see them from afar, it gets the job done. I rather like this subtlety actually.

Not visible on console. Can sometimes ride up to a HS and can’t see ANYTHING until right on top of it & then stuff appears.

The shrikes are annoying. Very annoying.

And these will be deserted after the event, especially because the effort needed to do them is made utterly pointless by the 99.9% rubbishness of the ‘rewards’.

doomette

Hallothiel wrote: »

Not visible on console. Can sometimes ride up to a HS and can’t see ANYTHING until right on top of it & then stuff appears.

Ugh I hate when this happens. I just have to use a HoT, flail wildly, and hope for the best until things start appearing.

Vevvev

Only reason I can even make harrowstorms easy is by exploiting the bug ZOS has still not fixed where if you stun a ghost it breaks their pathing and they just sit there. If ZOS fixed that bug they'd be impossible to complete with a small pug group.

It's not made obvious enough that you need to stop the ghosts from reaching the pikes, and whenever I run up to one that's been up for a while it's swarming with bosses. With a single person on ghost duty you can complete an entire storm without a single boss spawning.

Ei8htba11

Some content in ESO is not meant to be solo'd
Some overland content is not meant to be solo'd.

In Elsweyr, it's a freaking dragon fer chrissakes (lacerations, eviseration, incineration...). You know, those big flying murder lizards that the zone quest was about and kept reminding you how bad it was going to be if we didn't do something. I'd be disappointed if I could solo a dragon. Harrowstorms are supposed to be a similar big deal.

I have done dragons and Harrowstorms with small groups, it takes longer, you have to watch your feet, but that's about it.

I like the fact that the storms are so full of mechanics, you have to prioritise your targets, and revise your tactics during the fight, it makes a nice change to here's phase A, then phase B then... you get the idea.

Shrikes, avoid when they do the AoEs, get back on em after. Giant Juffies, conal AoE and charge, avoid and get back on it. Atros.. stumble hurts so if he starts to stagger around.. avoid, then get back on it. Gargoyles.. pain in the ar.. behind. Dodge the leap, poke em in the soft bits. Pikes? AoE the ghosts, stab the ugly pointy thing. Trash mobs usually die to AoEs.

All that going on at once? Pikes high on the list, mix and match the rest as the situation warrants. Helps if there's a tank to pull the big stuff, which I do, when I'm on with my tank.

TL:DR... Like em the way they are, a little more on your plate than do A till it's done, then do B, then (possibly) C, rinse repeat.

Wing

whelp, event is over.

harrowstorms are dead.

that content aged well.

Saoirse_Siobhan

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

MreeBiPolar

Gythral wrote: »

RED on RED
makes seeing most thing impossible

QFT x1000

I have died to RED on RED 10x more times than to anything else combined.

Hells, I would say, I have died to RED on RED in harrowstorms comparable number of times to ALL my other PvE deaths, combined.

MreeBiPolar

Wing wrote: »

dragons were obviously new tech, but were cool, but they have their issues:
-the icon displaying relevant info at the look of a map? genius! is it in combat? is it below 50% hp? the icon changes to reflect this info, once again, genius.

... Another genius thing with dragons was them creating the API/events for them.

Dragon spawned? You can get a notifier where. In fight? Notifier. 50%? Notifier. Moved? Notifier.

Harrowstorms not using that tech was an EXTREME disappointment. Just look at the number of "Any HS up?" in zone chat any day.

Jaraal

MreeBiPolar wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

dragons were obviously new tech, but were cool, but they have their issues:
-the icon displaying relevant info at the look of a map? genius! is it in combat? is it below 50% hp? the icon changes to reflect this info, once again, genius.

... Another genius thing with dragons was them creating the API/events for them.

Dragon spawned? You can get a notifier where. In fight? Notifier. 50%? Notifier. Moved? Notifier.

Harrowstorms not using that tech was an EXTREME disappointment. Just look at the number of "Any HS up?" in zone chat any day.

A mind boggling case of taking one step forward, and two back.

Surely they knew how helpful and welcome these health/location indicators were to players before they started designing harrowstorms? The only reason I can think of why they weren't included with Greymoor is some sort of performance issue.... but harrowstorms don't fly around the map like dragons, so surely it would be less of a load to display static storms? And TBH, I haven't noticed any more lag in dragon fights than harrowstorms, so surely that can't be it.

A puzzling situation, for sure.

craybest

is there more to mechanics and strategy that don't letting the ghosts get to the spikes and avoid the AoEs?

Gorreck

It is bizarre that they took all the improvements and things they learnt from Dolmens>Geysers>Dragons............. and threw it all away for Harrowstorms!

p00tx

While I agree that the rewards for these Harrowstorms are super underwhelming, I think the storms themselves are really cool. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous, and I love that there is actually some challenge to them. I'm a seasoned PvEer, with the best gear available in the game, and if I don't pay attention to the mechanics, I get my butt kicked. Even when I am trying to be mechanically mindful, I still get packed up on occasion.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, and I accept that, but I like that I can't do these alone. I depend on the roving tanks and healers who happen to come along and do their tanky, healy things for the random assortment of players assembled. These are players I'd probably never get to play with outside of these instances because we likely play completely different aspects of the game, but for the handful of minutes that it takes to complete one of these events, I get to play with them, and I actually enjoy it. Content like this brings players together who might never have run across one another, and I think that's a really valuable thing in this community.

Jaraal

p00tx wrote: »

I know this isn't a popular opinion, and I accept that, but I like that I can't do these alone. I depend on the roving tanks and healers who happen to come along and do their tanky, healy things for the random assortment of players assembled. These are players I'd probably never get to play with outside of these instances because we likely play completely different aspects of the game, but for the handful of minutes that it takes to complete one of these events, I get to play with them, and I actually enjoy it. Content like this brings players together who might never have run across one another, and I think that's a really valuable thing in this community.

Which makes it extra disappointing that they have taken away the majority of heals and buffs that we have enjoyed sharing with random players for years, and locking them to group only play.

It's a shame that they keep watering the game down to fit the aging infrastructure, rather than expanding the infrastructure to open up new (and keep long standing) play options.

Ei8htba11

Additional info:

Did a Harrow with just me (tank) and DD, 2 of us. No, we're not godly. The trick is kind of a cheese, but...

The tank chains/leashes the ghosts, just once, that's all you need. They remain stunned/rooted to where you chained them until they die. The DD can then concentrate on the pike with little or no interruption from the big bois. If you do get one spawning, he's still easy to kite around the Harrow while you (the tank) continues to control the ghosts (they will respawn after a time).

After that, kill the big add or adds, then focus the boss (he'll wait all day if you need him to).

That said, I agree it's a lot of work for (possibly) a ring, a few mats and some trash to sell to the vendor... or a motif page if you get really lucky

Marcus684

I agree with some of the complaints here.

1-shots are a cheap mechanic to simulate difficulty. Maybe the shrike mechanic is bugged, because even my tanky DK with 28k health and 25k+ mitigations sometimes dies to it without visible indication. I think I saw it once, when one of the little red circles had a swirly purple pattern inside it; but usually I drop dead without one.

Rewards are insultingly paltry. Dolmens can drop jewelry, so HSs should also drop a piece. Give us a small chance to pick up a purple piece, or if you really want to give players an incentive, a tiny chance for gold! Make the rewards worth the effort and you’ll solve the problem with no one wanting to do them.

Make the difficulty scaled. As more players join in, increase the number of ghosts or the rate they spawn, or raise the max number of minibosses. If ZOS can do it with dolmens, they can figure it out for HSs.

Magdalina

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

Um. I mean no offence, but...8 people failed a HS?! Were you all low level or something? I finally tried 2-3 manning some HS and found it to be heaps of fun. We had (almost) no issues doing them with 2. Super easy if one has a lot of CC and can just CC all the ads. The other way we did it was to just ignore ghosts on all pikes but 1 and focused it down. With semi-decent dps, by the time we were done with 2nd pike we had ~2.5 minibosses up (one was half dead), it wasn't much of an issue unless a shrike spawned (in which case it did get tricky, although not impossible). Once it's just one pike, it's easy peasy, aoe the ads and bosses and pike, we didn't even have any minibosses by the time main boss spawned. It was very fun and quite challenging with just 2 of us, I can see that not everyone would like that/be ready for that, but...8 people. I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

Wing

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

that can happen, its the starter zone now, level 3 noobs can wander upon harrowstorms, and no they will not know better, their new.

there is this weird expectation that harrowstorms are supposed to be some sort of endgame content i get from some posts. like this is supposed to be the harder overland content people want.

and thats such a mistake, they are supposed to be akin to dolmens and geysers, obviously.

if anyone wants some idea of the issue

go do a dolmen
go do a geyser
go do a harrowstorm

that should give the proper perspective. these are not supposed to be DLC dungeons c'mon people.

Magdalina

Wing wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

that can happen, its the starter zone now, level 3 noobs can wander upon harrowstorms, and no they will not know better, their new.

there is this weird expectation that harrowstorms are supposed to be some sort of endgame content i get from some posts. like this is supposed to be the harder overland content people want.

and thats such a mistake, they are supposed to be akin to dolmens and geysers, obviously.

if anyone wants some idea of the issue

go do a dolmen
go do a geyser
go do a harrowstorm

that should give the proper perspective. these are not supposed to be DLC dungeons c'mon people.

Why shouldn't they? There's a million open world quests and mobs you can do with eyes closed. Why is it bad that we have some (namely, 2. Dragons and HS. Well 2.5 if you count Geysers, I haven't really seen them scale, but their difficulty is about that of a WB anyway, so relatively easy and perfectly soloable with a decent build) encounters that you actually have to open your eyes and even swap some skills and maybe even call friends to do?

I can see how new/inexperienced people could struggle with this, but this doesn't mean it's bad. It means it can be a push for them to be better. You know, maybe this very push that people lack when they start doing (vet) group content and suddenly find out their heavy armor bow magicka sorcerer doesn't really work?

Of course, not everyone wants to get better, people have different ways of playing games. But then, not everyone has to do HS too, there's nothing too important to miss there.

Edit: far as your 'issue' goes. Did a dolmen. Boring, unimmersive (supposed to feel epic but doesn't because mobs die the moment I look at them). Did a geyser. Bit better because I got a named boss (afaik they only scale trash mobs to the amount of people, I always get named bosses when doing them alone), but still not quite world-saving-ly epic. Did a HS. Epic, challenging, fun, awesome. Indeed, I see the issue, I think we should buff the hell out of dolmens ;P

Wing

Magdalina wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

that can happen, its the starter zone now, level 3 noobs can wander upon harrowstorms, and no they will not know better, their new.

there is this weird expectation that harrowstorms are supposed to be some sort of endgame content i get from some posts. like this is supposed to be the harder overland content people want.

and thats such a mistake, they are supposed to be akin to dolmens and geysers, obviously.

if anyone wants some idea of the issue

go do a dolmen
go do a geyser
go do a harrowstorm

that should give the proper perspective. these are not supposed to be DLC dungeons c'mon people.

Why shouldn't they? There's a million open world quests and mobs you can do with eyes closed. Why is it bad that we have some (namely, 2. Dragons and HS. Well 2.5 if you count Geysers, I haven't really seen them scale, but their difficulty is about that of a WB anyway, so relatively easy and perfectly soloable with a decent build) encounters that you actually have to open your eyes and even swap some skills and maybe even call friends to do?

I can see how new/inexperienced people could struggle with this, but this doesn't mean it's bad. It means it can be a push for them to be better. You know, maybe this very push that people lack when they start doing (vet) group content and suddenly find out their heavy armor bow magicka sorcerer doesn't really work?

Of course, not everyone wants to get better, people have different ways of playing games. But then, not everyone has to do HS too, there's nothing too important to miss there.

Edit: far as your 'issue' goes. Did a dolmen. Boring, unimmersive (supposed to feel epic but doesn't because mobs die the moment I look at them). Did a geyser. Bit better because I got a named boss (afaik they only scale trash mobs to the amount of people, I always get named bosses when doing them alone), but still not quite world-saving-ly epic. Did a HS. Epic, challenging, fun, awesome. Indeed, I see the issue, I think we should buff the hell out of dolmens ;P

uh huh, question though?

why, at any point, myself as a player that has played for any amount of time. . .

ever consider doing a harrowstorm?

what reason can you possibly fathom for me to do this thing that you wanted to be hard?

you bring up dolmens and yet people only spam them in one zone for a couple obvious reasons:
-purple jewelry mats
-xp
-achievements

other then that, or to clear the map, people do not do dolmens

geysers are not done except for alchemy mats required in a current best in slot stam food (depending)

DLC dungeons are barely done by anyone outside of normal for sets, if anyone does do them on vet its a static 4 man looking for monster helms or the achievements, and the monster set has to be OP at the time.

its fine and dandy to SAY things should be hard and people should get better.

its different when the vast majority does not want to do hard stuff and your income is reliant on those people playing.

or should i start listing off all the failed MMO's that tried to be hard or required grouping?

anyone remember wildstar? the game made by former wow devs that came out right after ESO and was going to be the "ESO killer"

betcha dont, died about 2 year ago, servers shut down, poof gone.

Saoirse_Siobhan

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

Um. I mean no offence, but...8 people failed a HS?! Were you all low level or something? [...] I can see that not everyone would like that/be ready for that, but...8 people. I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

I'm max level, there were 1 or 2 that I noticed were low level, but I didn't notice what level the others were, they were dying a lot so maybe? But I was still being one-shot by the shrikes too so who knows...

BlueRaven

Ei8htba11 wrote: »

Some content in ESO is not meant to be solo'd
Some overland content is not meant to be solo'd.

In Elsweyr, it's a freaking dragon fer chrissakes (lacerations, eviseration, incineration...). You know, those big flying murder lizards that the zone quest was about and kept reminding you how bad it was going to be if we didn't do something. I'd be disappointed if I could solo a dragon. Harrowstorms are supposed to be a similar big deal.

I have done dragons and Harrowstorms with small groups, it takes longer, you have to watch your feet, but that's about it.

I like the fact that the storms are so full of mechanics, you have to prioritise your targets, and revise your tactics during the fight, it makes a nice change to here's phase A, then phase B then... you get the idea.

Shrikes, avoid when they do the AoEs, get back on em after. Giant Juffies, conal AoE and charge, avoid and get back on it. Atros.. stumble hurts so if he starts to stagger around.. avoid, then get back on it. Gargoyles.. pain in the ar.. behind. Dodge the leap, poke em in the soft bits. Pikes? AoE the ghosts, stab the ugly pointy thing. Trash mobs usually die to AoEs.

All that going on at once? Pikes high on the list, mix and match the rest as the situation warrants. Helps if there's a tank to pull the big stuff, which I do, when I'm on with my tank.

TL:DR... Like em the way they are, a little more on your plate than do A till it's done, then do B, then (possibly) C, rinse repeat.

The problem is you are asking for a pug group who have various experiences, skills, and power levels, (and not even in verbal communication) to readjust group tactics on the fly.

ZOS could just easily scale the fight so that it makes sense for the group size fighting it. If the group is small it could spawn less ghosts, limit the spawned adds, and limit the amount of mini bosses at any one time. (And because the rewards are so small, outside of the daily rewards, why would the group be any bigger anyway?)

But no. I was trying to do one today, there were three people total. And one of them was only level 20-ish. With none of the others killing ghosts we were quickly overwhelmed. There isn't even a spot where you can pause to tell the group to help with the ghosts.

How was that enjoyable for any of us involved?

Lord-Otto

Magdalina wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

that can happen, its the starter zone now, level 3 noobs can wander upon harrowstorms, and no they will not know better, their new.

there is this weird expectation that harrowstorms are supposed to be some sort of endgame content i get from some posts. like this is supposed to be the harder overland content people want.

and thats such a mistake, they are supposed to be akin to dolmens and geysers, obviously.

if anyone wants some idea of the issue

go do a dolmen
go do a geyser
go do a harrowstorm

that should give the proper perspective. these are not supposed to be DLC dungeons c'mon people.

Why shouldn't they? There's a million open world quests and mobs you can do with eyes closed. Why is it bad that we have some (namely, 2. Dragons and HS. Well 2.5 if you count Geysers, I haven't really seen them scale, but their difficulty is about that of a WB anyway, so relatively easy and perfectly soloable with a decent build) encounters that you actually have to open your eyes and even swap some skills and maybe even call friends to do?

I can see how new/inexperienced people could struggle with this, but this doesn't mean it's bad. It means it can be a push for them to be better. You know, maybe this very push that people lack when they start doing (vet) group content and suddenly find out their heavy armor bow magicka sorcerer doesn't really work?

Of course, not everyone wants to get better, people have different ways of playing games. But then, not everyone has to do HS too, there's nothing too important to miss there.

Edit: far as your 'issue' goes. Did a dolmen. Boring, unimmersive (supposed to feel epic but doesn't because mobs die the moment I look at them). Did a geyser. Bit better because I got a named boss (afaik they only scale trash mobs to the amount of people, I always get named bosses when doing them alone), but still not quite world-saving-ly epic. Did a HS. Epic, challenging, fun, awesome. Indeed, I see the issue, I think we should buff the hell out of dolmens ;P

Just take off your gear. Makes dolmens and geysers harder. Epic enough for you?

Magdalina

Wing wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

that can happen, its the starter zone now, level 3 noobs can wander upon harrowstorms, and no they will not know better, their new.

there is this weird expectation that harrowstorms are supposed to be some sort of endgame content i get from some posts. like this is supposed to be the harder overland content people want.

and thats such a mistake, they are supposed to be akin to dolmens and geysers, obviously.

if anyone wants some idea of the issue

go do a dolmen
go do a geyser
go do a harrowstorm

that should give the proper perspective. these are not supposed to be DLC dungeons c'mon people.

Why shouldn't they? There's a million open world quests and mobs you can do with eyes closed. Why is it bad that we have some (namely, 2. Dragons and HS. Well 2.5 if you count Geysers, I haven't really seen them scale, but their difficulty is about that of a WB anyway, so relatively easy and perfectly soloable with a decent build) encounters that you actually have to open your eyes and even swap some skills and maybe even call friends to do?

I can see how new/inexperienced people could struggle with this, but this doesn't mean it's bad. It means it can be a push for them to be better. You know, maybe this very push that people lack when they start doing (vet) group content and suddenly find out their heavy armor bow magicka sorcerer doesn't really work?

Of course, not everyone wants to get better, people have different ways of playing games. But then, not everyone has to do HS too, there's nothing too important to miss there.

Edit: far as your 'issue' goes. Did a dolmen. Boring, unimmersive (supposed to feel epic but doesn't because mobs die the moment I look at them). Did a geyser. Bit better because I got a named boss (afaik they only scale trash mobs to the amount of people, I always get named bosses when doing them alone), but still not quite world-saving-ly epic. Did a HS. Epic, challenging, fun, awesome. Indeed, I see the issue, I think we should buff the hell out of dolmens ;P

uh huh, question though?

why, at any point, myself as a player that has played for any amount of time. . .

ever consider doing a harrowstorm?

what reason can you possibly fathom for me to do this thing that you wanted to be hard?

you bring up dolmens and yet people only spam them in one zone for a couple obvious reasons:
-purple jewelry mats
-xp
-achievements

other then that, or to clear the map, people do not do dolmens

geysers are not done except for alchemy mats required in a current best in slot stam food (depending)

DLC dungeons are barely done by anyone outside of normal for sets, if anyone does do them on vet its a static 4 man looking for monster helms or the achievements, and the monster set has to be OP at the time.

its fine and dandy to SAY things should be hard and people should get better.

its different when the vast majority does not want to do hard stuff and your income is reliant on those people playing.

or should i start listing off all the failed MMO's that tried to be hard or required grouping?

anyone remember wildstar? the game made by former wow devs that came out right after ESO and was going to be the "ESO killer"

betcha dont, died about 2 year ago, servers shut down, poof gone.

There's plenty of people running vet trials and dlc dungeons, for me, vet dlc dungeons are 90% of the reason I log in at all. Just because you don't see them, doesn't mean no one is doing them. Reasons for why are 1) pledges 2)achievements 3)farming 4) just for fun (after you do them a few times, the novelty begins to fade and the fun is generally in getting better and then going for achievements). Same reasons apply to any content in the game though, I'm not sure what your point is there. People generally try content out a few times and after that they will come back to it for 1)dailies 2) achievements 3)farming 4)just for fun (but yes, novelty will also fade eventually and people will need extra incentive). Far as HS go, all they really need to get more people in is to up the rewards so #3 keeps people going. The rewards kept people running dragons (hands down hardest open-world content in the game!) in SE non-stop for months and months after that content launch - never, at any time of day and night, did a dragon stay up more than 10 minutes because there were always people doing it. I'd say that's a crazy success. HS rewards suck though, everyone can agree about that.

Magdalina

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Saoirse_Siobhan wrote: »

I just spent 25 minutes trying to take down a Harrowstorm. There was about 8 of us. We'd eventually manage to get it down to one pike, after dying countless times, but then everyone would die and the 3 pikes would reset. It reset 3 TIMES! Finally some more people showed up and we were able to finish it but god it was soul-crushing.

You're trying to destroy the pikes, but also kill the ghosts before they reach them, also kill the bosses, especially the shrikes, and also avoid the red... You can't roll dodge out of the way because you just end up in more red and you get one-shotted by a shrike. And the last pike is harder because you got triple the amount of ghosts to deal with (since they still spawn for 3 pikes but all go to one), loads of bosses, red everywhere...

Then after all that, there's the loot... I started Greymoor about a month ago, and I honestly thought that I did something wrong or that there was a bug. All that work and I get worthless items? Even during the event, I expected Harrowstorms to at least drop a loot box every time, but nope. I got more loot boxes from killing a simple delve boss.
Also the red voriplasm things that disappear before you can loot them, and the red that drops around the loot mound at the end that prevents you from interacting with it just adds insult to injury.... UGH

I'm working towards getting the Master Harrowstorm Harrier achievement but then I am done!

I'm sorry, but unless you were all level 5 and brand new to the game, that's on you=x

that can happen, its the starter zone now, level 3 noobs can wander upon harrowstorms, and no they will not know better, their new.

there is this weird expectation that harrowstorms are supposed to be some sort of endgame content i get from some posts. like this is supposed to be the harder overland content people want.

and thats such a mistake, they are supposed to be akin to dolmens and geysers, obviously.

if anyone wants some idea of the issue

go do a dolmen
go do a geyser
go do a harrowstorm

that should give the proper perspective. these are not supposed to be DLC dungeons c'mon people.

Why shouldn't they? There's a million open world quests and mobs you can do with eyes closed. Why is it bad that we have some (namely, 2. Dragons and HS. Well 2.5 if you count Geysers, I haven't really seen them scale, but their difficulty is about that of a WB anyway, so relatively easy and perfectly soloable with a decent build) encounters that you actually have to open your eyes and even swap some skills and maybe even call friends to do?

I can see how new/inexperienced people could struggle with this, but this doesn't mean it's bad. It means it can be a push for them to be better. You know, maybe this very push that people lack when they start doing (vet) group content and suddenly find out their heavy armor bow magicka sorcerer doesn't really work?

Of course, not everyone wants to get better, people have different ways of playing games. But then, not everyone has to do HS too, there's nothing too important to miss there.

Edit: far as your 'issue' goes. Did a dolmen. Boring, unimmersive (supposed to feel epic but doesn't because mobs die the moment I look at them). Did a geyser. Bit better because I got a named boss (afaik they only scale trash mobs to the amount of people, I always get named bosses when doing them alone), but still not quite world-saving-ly epic. Did a HS. Epic, challenging, fun, awesome. Indeed, I see the issue, I think we should buff the hell out of dolmens ;P

Just take off your gear. Makes dolmens and geysers harder. Epic enough for you?

This argument again...I've done dolmens naked and without food. Still boring. Now how about you actually put some decent gear to make stuff easier?;P

There's 2 takes on every 'X is too hard' complaint. 1 is nerf X, 2 is get better yourself. I choose 2 and have fun. I enjoy the feeling of progression and overcoming obstacles that used to seem impossible. Does everyone have to enjoy it? No, but to rob those of us that do of it is simply not right, it's this progression that gives a huge part of the game replayability, it's what makes vet content viable at all.

Zephiran23

Best suggestion I've seen so far, change the enemy warning colour to something outside of the red spectrum. I was using pink previously and that was good enough for dragons and everything prior. I've now switched to a bright yellow and it's a lot easier to tell what's going on.

Doesn't really help with shrikes, but better for everything else.

Vulsahdaal

craybest wrote: »

is there more to mechanics and strategy that don't letting the ghosts get to the spikes and avoid the AoEs?

Well, I'd like to add that if you see ghosts all around that are just floating in place and not moving in any direction, please DONT intentionally kill them.

This means there's a tank there who is handling the ghosts (he's easy enough to spot, look for the player who seems to be just circling the entire area, while ignoring pikes and whatever baddies are running around).

Tank probably has the ghost respawn timing set nicely so they can easily stun ghosts at one pike and make it to the next respawn before the ghosts hit their target.

When you kill all the stationary ghosts at a pike, it throws off the respawn timing in that ghosts may pop up at the same moment in different areas making it difficult to reach them in time.

And for those who are wondering 'Hey, why isn't he helping with the pike or taunting mobs or such?'

The main reasons are that I doubt my 6k DPS is going to be a big help at the pike (Ill leave that to you higher DPS guys).

Also if I see a player run past me while being chased by a pack of baddies, I will CC to give them a chance to get away, but I'm rarely going to get more involved than that. This is because I'm a bit more concerned with the large ghostly shrike waiting in the center of the storm and making sure that it stays exactly where it is- because we all know what happens when it is released

biminirwb17_ESO

After stunning the ghosts and attacking the pike like a madman a person who is running away from 20 trash and 1 mini boss just has to run upto you. le Sigh.