PvE is pointless - Bugs and exploits go unpunished.

karekiz

MaLTRaiN wrote: »

Who cares what others do on PvE?

Please put back Snipe VAS exploit. EZ farm guys.

Schared

kathandira wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
.

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

Meaning no offense here but i think you may be living in an eso-bubble. Given the ps4 community may be smaller and the NA community is smaller than EU´s so some of these things may not have the same effect on you.
If you cannot relate to what i said let me try to illustrate it differently. You have been working at some achievement real life or otherwise - put in effort and most importantly time.
You put idk 50hours into your progression and get beaten out by someone who is objectively worse because he hasnt spend that time - if that dosent grind your gears and you cant relate at all this problem may not apply to you after all.
I find it very relateable.

thegreat_one

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so.

Why would you feel bad about it? You know that you "achieved" it the right way. Who cares what other people think?

Then you don't understand social gaming or MMOs.
The whole point of social gaming / MMO is really to show off what you have compared to what other people don't have.
Even furnishing and fashion -- it's about what you have COMPARED to others.
Achievement without other people knowing about it is meaningless.

Achievement when people know other people cheated to get theirs not only devalues your achievement but puts you under unfair suspicion that you cheated to get yours too.
Same with buying a title/achievement. Can't tell who bought a carry now.

Maybe you personally don't care, but there are players who do care that achievements should be actually achievements and not handed out to cheaters.

It's starting to look like so called "casuals" who don't even go looking for exploits to push the system are the only legit players in ESO and the ones ZOS should be "catering to".

The players that do care will send you tells when they kill you in PVP, and when you t-bag them oh mah gawd do they get salty.
Also there are groups that advertise achievement runs for gold. So, it's been devalued to just another gold farm for someone.

TequilaFire

Reminds me of the Twice Born Star set bug a few years ago.

actosh

Schared wrote: »

Iam a big fan of blizzards zero-tolerance-policy. Sure it isnt perfect either yet i believe it deters alot of people from trying anything due to severe repercussions.

Same here, ban the accounts forever. Those who are too dumb to do it the right way cheated and there should be no tolerance. >But ZOS has shown that with the crown bug they are to lazy to do permbans. Remove the crowns from the crown exploiters and ban them as well. When things are so obvious it cant happen by accident. *** em.

actosh

@Schared That would make up for an awesome Article on Gaming Magazines.
If u still have the messages somehow saved, they should be released. Not here of course

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

Do u guys realize how bad ESO´s reputation is for handling cheats/exploits.

Maybe Microsoft can talk a little more sense into your thought process.

Dont take it as offense, but u dont realize how *** up all of this is.

OmniDo

Schared wrote: »

You put idk 50hours into your progression and get beaten out by someone who is objectively worse because he hasnt spend that time - if that dosent grind your gears and you cant relate at all this problem may not apply to you after all.
I find it very relateable.

Except that this behavior is at the very core essence of natural law, not to mention the factual basis for all human behavior.

The phrase: "Cheaters never win" is something only sore-losers say.
Cheaters can and most certainly do win, the only difference is the consequences for getting caught.

However when placed into the context of personal achievement, it makes absolutely no sense to cheat, since your "victory" is based upon a known self-deceit. If your goal was to " Win at any cost", then cheating can most definitely pay off, provided the benefits granted by the "Win" are greater than any potential drawbacks incurred from either the act of cheating itself, or from observers who discover it and pursue restitution.

pelle412

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

What if those achievement sellers are also cheaters using exploits to make these reliable runs possible?

That's of course a problem, but most of them are legitimate.

Dusk_Coven

pelle412 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

What if those achievement sellers are also cheaters using exploits to make these reliable runs possible?

That's of course a problem, but most of them are legitimate.

But that's part of the consequence of the existence of cheaters and exploiters. Even legit people "have to prove" they are legit. They're always under suspicion now especially for the hardest content.

Console apparently only recently got their first Godslayer group but PC has them dime a dozen? You think people aren't gonna call BS on groups that go in handicapped by a carry? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514030/so-console-just-got-its-first-godslayer-group

Just the fact that there are exploiters -- especially when there is no consequence, and ZOS doesn't even talk about having done anything about exploiters or confirmed exploits exist even after-the-fact of dealing with it -- this creates a climate of distrust in the community.

This is just one exploit. Given ZOS's track record on exploits it's naive to think there aren't others or outright cheating.
There's already organized exploitation in AP Boosting. Who knows? Maybe guilds are selling AP boosting services for gold.

LashanW

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.

End game PvE achievements/skins are already made meaningless by carry runs. I used to go "woah this dude is OP" whenever I saw someone with a trifecta achievement, now I feel nothing when I see them. Whenever I travel across zones I see so many carry run advertisements in zone chat, sometimes more than half the messages I see in zone chat are just that, "WTS carry runs". Some people have interesting ways to advertise them,

Saw the above in zone chat somewhere.

There are people who easily got trifecta achievements sometime back when the trial instances were very buggy, because mechanics were barely happening and enemy AI was just stuck. But I do agree exploits should always be fixed ASAP.

MaddPowered

lets just ban everyone who uses speed gear in a trial that everyone uses speed gear in

Kurat

While I agree cheating is wrong and should be punished but theres no point to complain here because carries are sold ever few minutes in every zone chat lol and that's not against ToS. What's the difference if you use exploits to get achievements or pay gold? At the end of the day you didn't earn it.
Achievements dont mean FA to me. Every time I see Godslayer or tik tok people running around I'm thinking they probably bought it. How do I know. They may aswell remove titles from the game. Carry sellers have ruined pve achievements and should be banned imo.

Aznarb

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

So this is a PC problem? Can't unequip gear while running on console. Interesting why would anyone even do this?

Imagine if they had to do these speed runs, without their add-ons switching gear for them with a button press. Where they actually had to stop running, and equip every single piece manually.

So much this. Imagine if they've have to know timer and mechanic instead of using addon who time and advertise about everything. All these achievement made no sens with these addon anyway.

Also, bug exploiter and cheater in a game ? Who could expect that ? :<

maxjapank

I've heard of this set being exploited in the past, but in a different way. It was told by a fairly strong player who actually admitted it was broken after it had been fixed. So I never thought that this same set would lead to being broken again, but with a different bug. It's a real shame that some players need to cheat to win. Maybe it's not some hack program, but it's taking advantage of unintended bugs. They'll blame it on zos, of course. Not our fault, they'll say. But won't acknowledge that knowingly doing it is still cheating.

Supposedly it's been fixed on the pts according to one forum. So next patch, when that "strong" player isn't quite as strong, you'll have an idea why. Same as the disappearance of so many players after the unlimited ulti spam was fixed.

clv

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

What if those achievement sellers are also cheaters using exploits to make these reliable runs possible?

That's of course a problem, but most of them are legitimate.

But that's part of the consequence of the existence of cheaters and exploiters. Even legit people "have to prove" they are legit. They're always under suspicion now especially for the hardest content.

Console apparently only recently got their first Godslayer group but PC has them dime a dozen? You think people aren't gonna call BS on groups that go in handicapped by a carry? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514030/so-console-just-got-its-first-godslayer-group

Just the fact that there are exploiters -- especially when there is no consequence, and ZOS doesn't even talk about having done anything about exploiters or confirmed exploits exist even after-the-fact of dealing with it -- this creates a climate of distrust in the community.

This is just one exploit. Given ZOS's track record on exploits it's naive to think there aren't others or outright cheating.
There's already organized exploitation in AP Boosting. Who knows? Maybe guilds are selling AP boosting services for gold.

nah there's no way console could have done this, you needed to sprint with coward's on, and gearswap into your regular gear while holding sprint

it's been ninja fixed btw swept under the rug

i don't mind at all the exploit, i just dont like misinformation

derpy_cat1234

You all overestimate how many people buy trifecta achievements. Its super rare. Also no one is selling godslayer or dawnbringer despite what they may say in zone chat. Almost evryone who buys carries buys stuff like vss,vcr1/2 and vas2. With the rarer vcr3 thrown in there. People just care about gear and rarely skins ,almost never titles. Also who tf cares? Thats not the point. The point is that zos is not punishing exploiters!

Heady

it must have taken a really smart wizard to come up with this idea

Banana

I'd like magma shell up 24/7. How do I do it

Sanguinor2

MaddPowered wrote: »

lets just ban everyone who uses speed gear in a trial that everyone uses speed gear in

How about we instead just ban everyone that uses said speed gear to achieve 100% major protection without having said speed gear equipped or fulfilling its proc conditions? Sounds better doesnt it?

Sililos

kathandira wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
.

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

Im in total agreement.

The problem is, and what i suspect is going on here is a lot of raiders do it because they want to be superior too all us little peon's and whenever the playing field gets evened out, they always complain and cry foul. If they had their way they would be the only person in the game able to do said content for bragging rights.

(I point out not all Raiders are like this before people start foaming at the mouth, Also i did not use nor know about this exploit nor would of used it as I dont believe in exploiting, i just dont like seeing people act like they are the only ones in the game who matter more than PvE exploiters.)

Michae

Regarding the line that exploiters devalue the titles for those who do it legit. Grow up people, isn't the journey what counts? YOU got that legit, and hopefully YOU had fun doing it. Why do you care how others did it? There always will be the way to cheese through some stuff in the game, be it PvE or PvP. In PvP exploits actively ruin other people's precious game time, running exploits in PvE, while I do not condone it, only affects the fragile egos of tryhards. I mean if I see someone with this "Godslayer" title I don't really think "wow, what a hero", or even "wow, that guy wasted a lot of time", I just go "ok..." and move on with my life since I got stuff to do.

Grianasteri

A hand full of players, in a game with tens of thousands of players, managed to use an exploit during a short spell, to achieve a, lets be honest, meaningless title. I know some folk like achievements and the prestige etc, but ultimately it doesnt gain you anything in game, no actual advantage. And, were talking about a handful of players only anyway, hardly game breaking in terms of devaluing the achievements.

Yes, Zos should fix bugs, everyone I am sure agrees. But I really cant see this one as a massive issue at all, sorry.

And as for PVE being somehow pointless? Lets just be kind and say that is hyperbolic in the extreme.
.

Flaaklypa

Schared wrote: »

Greetings reader,
that bugs happen in ESO is old news but in this thread i want to single out a specific incident that occured from the 15th september till the 22th.
For those unaware there is a gearset in eso fittingly named "Cowards Gear" which 5 piece set bonus grants you mayor expedition (30% Speed) and mayor protection (30% damage negation) while sprinting. Sadly if you unequipped the set while maintaining sprint the buff would persist indefinetly - or alteast until you went through a loadscreen. This bug has been on and off for some time now but has gone largely unnoticed by the PvE community since it originated in PvP whose players often keep things like that a secret, yet it was cause for some bans for exploiters.

During the before mentioned week the bug went "public" as more and more people became aware of it. And because of the opportunistic nature of those players any common sense went overboard as those players d

Schared wrote: »

Greetings reader,
that bugs happen in ESO is old news but in this thread i want to single out a specific incident that occured from the 15th september till the 22th.
For those unaware there is a gearset in eso fittingly named "Cowards Gear" which 5 piece set bonus grants you mayor expedition (30% Speed) and mayor protection (30% damage negation) while sprinting. [snip] This bug has been on and off for some time now but has gone largely unnoticed by the PvE community since it originated in PvP whose players often keep things like that a secret, yet it was cause for some bans for exploiters.

During the before mentioned week the bug went "public" as more and more people became aware of it. And because of the opportunistic nature of those players any common sense went overboard as those players decided to plan to grab titles and achievements specificly abusing said exploit.
I can not stress enough that this was not an accident. All those groups decided to go for Godslayer and similar things specificly because they knew how much easier it would be if u take 30% less damage.

Just to put it in perspective we used to have about 1-2 Godslayers a week on both servers excluding scorepushing guilds. During those 7 days we had more than 7 on EU alone - note here that the bug worked everywhere so it was also applicable to other trials - i just kept track of that one since its largely viewed as the most prestigieous one.
Besides that "weird concidence" people first went bragging about how smart they are abusing that bug and once they realized it just might be a banable offense they quickly deleted their messages, logs and other data.

Besides those groups exploiting for personal gain there was also a small percentage of players essentially getting paid for it doing a successful godslayer carry which was just the cherry on top for me.

Alas some of you may wonder what exactly my problem with the situation is. By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
Perhaps on the same level as that abuse may be the question of punishment those players received. Because if they do not receive punishment other players will assume that if they didnt get shot down they wont either - and who knows how crazy the next exploit will be. It also raises the question if the ban of the pvp players that was just seeing as the most recent exploiters remain unpunished so far.
Even though iam quite fond of alot of those players that chose to go down that path i think the punishment should be severe ranging from anywhere between and account rollback to a ban deterring future players from making the same choice.

The only solace i can offer to those who feel like their progression has been pointless and their achievements are void is: You are 30% ahead of those guys.

Thanks for reading.



As of now there has been no action taken against said exploiters.

[Edited for Discussion of Exploits]

Yes, i agree schared. Exploiters should not go unpunished. This is a giant middlefinger to you, and the rest who spent a long time getting that achievement.

Or people like me who spent a long time trying, but ultimately failed

kathandira

redspecter23 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
.

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so. If ZOS takes a soft stance on exploits, it creates an environment where you feel like you should exploit as you'd be missing out if you don't and you know there will be no punishment.

My stance still applies. PvE in this game isn’t like others. There is no “missing out” or falling behind.

For example, other games have ilvl or something similar that when new content comes out, gear from older content is no longer viable, so the community abandons older stuff and puts all their focus on the new stuff.

This game isn’t like that. There is no “keeping up” factor in ESO’s PvE. So if someone gets something before I do, it doesn’t mean anything. It will still be there when im ready, and will still be just as valuable to me.

what_the

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Then you don't understand social gaming or MMOs.
The whole point of social gaming / MMO is really to show off what you have compared to what other people don't have.
Even furnishing and fashion -- it's about what you have COMPARED to others.
Achievement without other people knowing about it is meaningless.

wow...sorry you have a warped sense of yourself....
try doing things for yourself (gaming or not), and not worrying what other people think, you will live a better life, I promise...

Disturbed_One

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

lets just ban everyone who uses speed gear in a trial that everyone uses speed gear in

How about we instead just ban everyone that uses said speed gear to achieve 100% major protection without having said speed gear equipped or fulfilling its proc conditions? Sounds better doesnt it?

No point in arguing with them. their part of the group that got banned for the "bad-ASCII-character crash your game" exploit a few patches ago in PVP. They also violate ToS by selling carries where a member of their group are required to sign into your account (which is how they have so many "titles" in there signiture) . How they haven't been banned is one of the biggest travesties in this game, and basically proves the OPs point.

Cheaters, Exploiters, Violators of the ToS, should have the hammer dropped on them and banned from the game. Permanently. IP ban them.

I don't care if they have "50 IRs"

El_Borracho

Maybe the OP was intentionally vague, but how would one sprinting wearing Coward's Gear help you defeat bosses in Sunspire? Not looking to do it, as I really don't care about titles, but I don't see how sprinting and damage are related

CyberOnEso

El_Borracho wrote: »

Maybe the OP was intentionally vague, but how would one sprinting wearing Coward's Gear help you defeat bosses in Sunspire? Not looking to do it, as I really don't care about titles, but I don't see how sprinting and damage are related

There was an exploit that involved using that set, the forum moderators removed the reference to it in the original post, as although it was patched it was still seen as discussing exploits.

Just to be very clear as it seems people may have misunderstood the OP. This was 100% an exploit, they knew what they were doing, they intentionally abused the bug. It isn't the set itself that is at fault, but the players that abused an exploit that required it.

There was no downside to using this exploit, you could still use your regular gear.

El_Borracho

CyberOnEso wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Maybe the OP was intentionally vague, but how would one sprinting wearing Coward's Gear help you defeat bosses in Sunspire? Not looking to do it, as I really don't care about titles, but I don't see how sprinting and damage are related

There was an exploit that involved using that set, the forum moderators removed the reference to it in the original post, as although it was patched it was still seen as discussing exploits.

Just to be very clear as it seems people may have misunderstood the OP. This was 100% an exploit, they knew what they were doing, they intentionally abused the bug. It isn't the set itself that is at fault, but the players that abused an exploit that required it.

No, I believe the OP about the exploit/bug. Thanks for clearing up that the OP was missing what the exploit was. Guessing it had something to do with the 5th piece staying on when not sprinting. Interesting.

And yeah, not a fan of exploits in general, either.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Selling achievements is pretty low in my opinion.
I've participated in several...it's really just for the cash and very impersonal and non friendly.