PvE is pointless - Bugs and exploits go unpunished.

Schared

Greetings reader,
that bugs happen in ESO is old news but in this thread i want to single out a specific incident that occured from the 15th september till the 22th.
For those unaware there is a gearset in eso fittingly named "Cowards Gear" which 5 piece set bonus grants you mayor expedition (30% Speed) and mayor protection (30% damage negation) while sprinting. [snip] This bug has been on and off for some time now but has gone largely unnoticed by the PvE community since it originated in PvP whose players often keep things like that a secret, yet it was cause for some bans for exploiters.

During the before mentioned week the bug went "public" as more and more people became aware of it. And because of the opportunistic nature of those players any common sense went overboard as those players decided to plan to grab titles and achievements specificly abusing said exploit.
I can not stress enough that this was not an accident. All those groups decided to go for Godslayer and similar things specificly because they knew how much easier it would be if u take 30% less damage.

Just to put it in perspective we used to have about 1-2 Godslayers a week on both servers excluding scorepushing guilds. During those 7 days we had more than 7 on EU alone - note here that the bug worked everywhere so it was also applicable to other trials - i just kept track of that one since its largely viewed as the most prestigieous one.
Besides that "weird concidence" people first went bragging about how smart they are abusing that bug and once they realized it just might be a banable offense they quickly deleted their messages, logs and other data.

Besides those groups exploiting for personal gain there was also a small percentage of players essentially getting paid for it doing a successful godslayer carry which was just the cherry on top for me.

Alas some of you may wonder what exactly my problem with the situation is. By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
Perhaps on the same level as that abuse may be the question of punishment those players received. Because if they do not receive punishment other players will assume that if they didnt get shot down they wont either - and who knows how crazy the next exploit will be. It also raises the question if the ban of the pvp players that was just seeing as the most recent exploiters remain unpunished so far.
Even though iam quite fond of alot of those players that chose to go down that path i think the punishment should be severe ranging from anywhere between and account rollback to a ban deterring future players from making the same choice.

The only solace i can offer to those who feel like their progression has been pointless and their achievements are void is: You are 30% ahead of those guys.

Thanks for reading.



As of now there has been no action taken against said exploiters.

[Edited for Discussion of Exploits]

Raideen

Schared wrote: »

.....


As of now there has been no action taken against said exploiters.

...however if you t-bag in pvp...

kathandira

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
.

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

abzdeman

No way

idk

Schared wrote: »

Besides that "weird concidence" people first went bragging about how smart they are abusing that bug and once they realized it just might be a banable offense they quickly deleted their messages, logs and other data.

Report it and the player's names to Zos. Nothing is ever truly deleted from the internet. Besides, Zos can look into the clears and see what really happened.

MaLTRaiN

Who cares what others do on PvE?

EdmondDontes

Use the in game bug report feature and report the issue. Be sure to follow up with the automatic reply email so someone actually looks at the report.

Schared

To those who suggest that i should name them - i cannot otherwise thill get shot down for privacy.

And for those that contact support - already done some time ago.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

It scares me that they did not get the conditions right for removing the set buff in the first place. Leaving a set buff active after the set is doffed is just... no.

Casul

Imagine exploiting to get a title in a videogame then bragging about it. Weak energy right there. Earn it if you want to flaunt it.

CyberOnEso

I don't suppose there would be a way for someone to verify the legitimacy of the recent GS runs?

If people wanted to prove they did it without the exploit they could post the logs and show that everyone took the damage they would expect to take, check their DTPS from frigid cold wasn't 30% lower than expected.

Astrid

You realise the surge in Godslayers came from Thrassian Stranglers, right? 😂 Unparalleled damage due to no deaths so DDs retained max stacks and likes of Gossamer for Evasion and Hollowfang for Vitality. Then just half a brain ontop of that and you’re good to go. I find it so unlikely people are exploiting a terrible set to essentially skip all the add pulls when they’re not even difficult. Beam phase mech on Lokke can kill you if done incorrectly, nothing really on Yolna, and a multitude of things on Nahvii like people dropping mets in stack, healing debuff, adds during portal phase ect. No matter what persistent buffs you’re getting from Cowards Gear exploit is going to save you on some of the mechanics.

pelle412

There are two separate issues raised here. One, exploiting a bug, which is clearly against the terms of service. Second, obtaining an achievement you didn't work for yourself and devaluing someone else's hard work. This second issue is not really relevant as that happens every minute of every day. Buy a lot of crowns, sell crowns for gold, buy achievement carries, flaunting said achievements as earned. This has been confirmed as not against terms of service.

Exploitation of a bug is the real issue here.

MrBrownstone

Wait, a single bug can make PvE pointless? Then i don't even want to talk about PvP

Dusk_Coven

Why chase Grand Overlord rank legitimately when you can just AP boost your way there?

Totally agree with the devaluation of achievements.
The whole point of PvE achievements is to give players something to do with their time and game experience.

It's one thing to argue that minimaxing is legit and even "necessary" for achievements.
It's another thing to just cheat -- even partially.

This actually leads to an interesting possibility -- ZOS looks at what's "possible" by how many people and decide that the trial is still fine if they nerf this that or the other thing for their internal combat "standards". Then suddenly the content is impossible or near-impossible for legitimate players.
Keep raising the ceiling with cheating?

Exploitation ultimately ruins the game for everyone.

Dusk_Coven

pelle412 wrote: »

buy achievement carries, flaunting said achievements as earned. This has been confirmed as not against terms of service.

What if those achievement sellers are also cheaters using exploits to make these reliable runs possible?

colossalvoids

Now i at least understand how some certain players come to goldslayer recently that fast, still pretty fked

redspecter23

kathandira wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
.

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so. If ZOS takes a soft stance on exploits, it creates an environment where you feel like you should exploit as you'd be missing out if you don't and you know there will be no punishment.

Spartabunny08

So this is a PC problem? Can't unequip gear while running on console. Interesting why would anyone even do this?

Kiralyn2000

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Why chase Grand Overlord rank legitimately when you can just AP boost your way there?

Totally agree with the devaluation of achievements.

Achievements had value?

Exploitation ultimately ruins the game for everyone people who care about other people's Achievements.

Or something like that.

The whole point of PvE achievements is to give players something to do with their time and game experience.

I suppose they can be seen as another set of semi-quests & "things to do". But why do other people's Achievements (and titles) matter for that? It's still a checklist of other things I can "do with my time", regardless of what they're doing with the list.

redspecter23 wrote: »

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so.

Why would you feel bad about it? You know that you "achieved" it the right way. Who cares what other people think?

idk

kathandira wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
.

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

Cheating and exploiting in any facet of the game devalues the entire game. There is no justification for cheating and exploiting.

Edit: Zos has banned players for cheating and exploiting in PvE. That alone says your suggestion is incorrect.

Dusk_Coven

Makes you wonder what other buffs are bugged and exploitable in the same way.

Dusk_Coven

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Wait, a single bug can make PvE pointless? Then i don't even want to talk about PvP

You don't have to. PvP was pointless a long time ago for achievements. Like Emperor.

UntilValhalla13

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

So this is a PC problem? Can't unequip gear while running on console. Interesting why would anyone even do this?

Imagine if they had to do these speed runs, without their add-ons switching gear for them with a button press. Where they actually had to stop running, and equip every single piece manually.

Dusk_Coven

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so.

Why would you feel bad about it? You know that you "achieved" it the right way. Who cares what other people think?

Then you don't understand social gaming or MMOs.
The whole point of social gaming / MMO is really to show off what you have compared to what other people don't have.
Even furnishing and fashion -- it's about what you have COMPARED to others.
Achievement without other people knowing about it is meaningless.

Achievement when people know other people cheated to get theirs not only devalues your achievement but puts you under unfair suspicion that you cheated to get yours too.
Same with buying a title/achievement. Can't tell who bought a carry now.

Maybe you personally don't care, but there are players who do care that achievements should be actually achievements and not handed out to cheaters.

It's starting to look like so called "casuals" who don't even go looking for exploits to push the system are the only legit players in ESO and the ones ZOS should be "catering to".

OmniDo

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

So this is a PC problem? Can't unequip gear while running on console. Interesting why would anyone even do this?

Imagine if they had to do these speed runs, without their add-ons switching gear for them with a button press. Where they actually had to stop running, and equip every single piece manually.

Imagine if every time you had to change an equipped piece of gear, you were forced to watch the costume equipping animation.
Imagine if actual logic was applied to all events in a simulated fantasy game...
Imagine...

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Dusk_Coven

Schared wrote: »

To those who suggest that i should name them - i cannot otherwise thill get shot down for privacy.

And for those that contact support - already done some time ago.

I think there's a good chance your post is going to get gutted anyway for "teaching how to exploit".

It's legit to redact that information, except given ESO's reputation in handling exploits and how their customer service works, all that really does is let ESO continue to not to anything and let their customer service continue to not be accountable.
It's really only legitimate if they actually did something. But we know they don't. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6939224/#Comment_6939224

Schared

Astrid wrote: »

You realise the surge in Godslayers came from Thrassian Stranglers, right? 😂 Unparalleled damage due to no deaths so DDs retained max stacks and likes of Gossamer for Evasion and Hollowfang for Vitality. Then just half a brain ontop of that and you’re good to go. I find it so unlikely people are exploiting a terrible set to essentially skip all the add pulls when they’re not even difficult. Beam phase mech on Lokke can kill you if done incorrectly, nothing really on Yolna, and a multitude of things on Nahvii like people dropping mets in stack, healing debuff, adds during portal phase ect. No matter what persistent buffs you’re getting from Cowards Gear exploit is going to save you on some of the mechanics.

You may be surprised - even though the damage went through the roof, few groups made it work consistently. There where barely more GS´s compared to previous patches - which may also be due to other factors. The group of players hunting after those things barely changed though.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

To those who suggest that i should name them - i cannot otherwise thill get shot down for privacy.

And for those that contact support - already done some time ago.

I think there's a good chance your post is going to get gutted anyway for "teaching how to exploit".

It's legit to redact that information, except given ESO's reputation in handling exploits and how their customer service works, all that really does is let ESO continue to not to anything and let their customer service continue to not be accountable.
It's really only legitimate if they actually did something. But we know they don't. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6939224/#Comment_6939224

While i can see that timeline happening, i will not entertain that idea further since the bug has been removed and therefore does not require additional caution.

Waffennacht

Seems like a PC only issue

derpy_cat1234

Even tho I agree with you with the whole devaluing the achievements, i thinks its besides the point.
You exploit a bug you get banned.
That's how it has worked for 30 years now.

Schared

Iam a big fan of blizzards zero-tolerance-policy. Sure it isnt perfect either yet i believe it deters alot of people from trying anything due to severe repercussions.