PvE is pointless - Bugs and exploits go unpunished.

Schared · September 2020

I was already being intentionally vague - and my comment got edited notheless. I cannot go into futher detail on the forums.

idk · September 2020

kathandira wrote: »

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redspecter23 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Schared wrote: »

By abusing unintended game mechanics those players have gotten a unique chance to slit through the trial much easier than anyone before and after. Essentially removing any kind of meaning and/or prestige from PvE achievements. Devaluing the time and effort put in by everyone else.
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That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so. If ZOS takes a soft stance on exploits, it creates an environment where you feel like you should exploit as you'd be missing out if you don't and you know there will be no punishment.

My stance still applies. PvE in this game isn’t like others. There is no “missing out” or falling behind.

For example, other games have ilvl or something similar that when new content comes out, gear from older content is no longer viable, so the community abandons older stuff and puts all their focus on the new stuff.

This game isn’t like that. There is no “keeping up” factor in ESO’s PvE. So if someone gets something before I do, it doesn’t mean anything. It will still be there when im ready, and will still be just as valuable to me.

I think we disagree on this as well. Yes, it is not the same as other games but there is still the "keeping up" factor in PvE when it comes to clearing the latest trial and getting the more challenging achievements in it.

Just like the fact that those who cheat/exploit to get those more challenging achievements to cheapen the game for everyone. The necessity for them to cheat and exploit because they lack the skill to accomplish it otherwise lessens the value of those achievements and as such there is no other legitimate way to look at it than they have devalued the effort of others that did it legitimately. This is a glaring fact.

Kiralyn2000 · September 2020

idk wrote: »

I think we disagree on this as well. Yes, it is not the same as other games but there is still the "keeping up" factor in PvE when it comes to clearing the latest trial and getting the more challenging achievements in it.

Just like the fact that those who cheat/exploit to get those more challenging achievements to cheapen the game for everyone.

Yeah, I guess it's just a total philosophical difference. I'm literally having a hard time understanding why someone else clearing <content> before me matters at all? Or if they have a "Rare" title or armor style - the only reason I care about titles or styles is if they fit my character's theme/make my character look like I want. The "rarity" of it, or the fact that more people have it, has no meaning to me.

(I've got a huge pile of titles in Star Trek Online. I pick the ones that fit with my characters' outfits, or make a funny joke, or fit the season/event/etc. Even if they're the most dirt-common title in the game.)

The necessity for them to cheat and exploit because they lack the skill to accomplish it otherwise lessens the value of those achievements.

Just like I don't understand how an Achievement has any "value" except what I give it - if I get the "Cleared Hard Content X Without Dying" achieve, sure - it's a nice label to me that I succeeded in some goal I wanted to pursue. And maybe it gives me a useful dye or title. Why does it matter if anyone else has it? I know what it represents to me, for my character, so....?

(Reminds me of the old days in WoW - I didn't get the point of standing in the center of town to flaunt your "I've got flaming shoulders, and you'll don't" raid gear. Or the raiders who screamed bloody murder that their fancy gear "was now WORTHLESS!!111!1one!"... because the raid was nerfed and other people could get it. It still had the same stats, and still had the same Awesome Set Bonus, how could it be "worthless". If it's only value was in being able to lord over the "have nots", then they had serious issues to deal with.)

JKorr · September 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

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Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

That is essentially a "you problem". Other's cheating and getting something in an unintended fashion does not devalue the effort I would put in by doing it the legitimate way. Other player's progress in PvE does not affect me in any way at all. My progress and achievements in PvE is what matters to me.

I disagree. By not punishing those that exploit, you are instead punishing those that are aware of those exploits and choose not to do them. You should never make people following the rules feel bad for doing so.

Why would you feel bad about it? You know that you "achieved" it the right way. Who cares what other people think?

Then you don't understand social gaming or MMOs.
The whole point of social gaming / MMO is really to show off what you have compared to what other people don't have.
Even furnishing and fashion -- it's about what you have COMPARED to others.
Achievement without other people knowing about it is meaningless.

Achievement when people know other people cheated to get theirs not only devalues your achievement but puts you under unfair suspicion that you cheated to get yours too.
Same with buying a title/achievement. Can't tell who bought a carry now.

Maybe you personally don't care, but there are players who do care that achievements should be actually achievements and not handed out to cheaters.

It's starting to look like so called "casuals" who don't even go looking for exploits to push the system are the only legit players in ESO and the ones ZOS should be "catering to".

I guess I never will understand "social" gaming or mmos, then. Maybe its all the single player games I've done.

Sorry, I outgrew the "My stuff is better than your stuff, nyah, nyah, nyah" a long time ago. I think I still had it in kindergarten, but by first grade I didn't really care. My stuff was my stuff, and special for reasons that didn't depend on what other kids had or thought about it. There will always be someone with more/better stuff; they have more time, they have more money, whatever. It is sad that some people depend on what others think about them/their achievements to validate their effort.

From the very beginning of the game it has been known that people were flipping keeps and kills to cheese pvp titles and achievements. One player came to the forums complaining because the emperor wouldn't take a bribe from the player to be killed so the player could take the title for a few minutes. Trials and pledges had glitches and exploits that were abused, besides the people paying for carries for a title or skin.

The titles or achievements that make me go "woah, good work" are the ones that the rabidly competitive I have to be the center of attention people won't bother with, that can't really be glitched into or carried through. Master Angler....Librarian...even if you have a bodyguard for fishing in Cyrodiil, you still have to catch the fish.

Bubosh · October 2020

There was even a streamer wich used this exploit on stream and some of my friends reported him with that clip where you could definitly see he was using that exploit and guess what this guy is still playing eso xD imagine how many duel tourns were totally senseless with this exploit and yes ofc also all these hardcore trials ^^ zos is handling cheating/exploiting way too easy