Ring of the Pale Order / OP or NOT OP?

relentless_turnip

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The major questions I've seen are:

1. Does the 15% heal get double dipped by battle spirit? (Damage -50%, healing -60%)
   • Imo, it shouldn't because ZOS has gone out of their way in the past, to make sure other sources of healing from damage, only gets hit once from the -50% damage, not the -60% healing.

@MashmalloMan
Now, take this with a grain of salt as its been a while since I tested and I may not be remembering correctly, but it isn't quite as simple as this for healing from damage abilities. While they aren't double reduced by the two battle spirit reductions, I'm fairly sure the heals from these abilities are affected by the -60% healing rather than the -50% damage part of it.
ie: Rather than the heal being calculated at full value from the post-battle spirit damage (which is reduced by 50%), the heal is calculated from the pre-battle spirit damage and then reduced by the healing reduction of 60%.

For example, take swallow soul, which heals for 35% of the damage done (with no other healing modifiers). If I hit someone for 5k with this in PvP, the heal isn't simply 5k*0.35 = 1.75k. Rather it is 10k*0.35*(1-0.6)=1.4k (10k being the damage I would have done without battle spirit).

Another way of looking at this is the heals from all of these healing from damage abilities is that rather than simply healing for the listed percentage of the damage number you see when you hit the opposing player, there is an additional factor of
(1-healing reduction from battle spirit)/(1-damage reduction from battle spirit) = 0.8
that gets applied.

I'm fairly sure it works this way as back when the battle spirit healing was changed from -50% to -60%, knowing that healing from damage abilities weren't double reduced, I wondered if maybe the way ZOS had coded it would have meant that these abilities heals may not have been reduced (if they simply calculated from the post battle spirit damage), and likewise healing ward may not have had its heals changed (as this heals based on the damage shield size which also wasn't reduced). So I tested it to check if I could be clever and circumvent the healing reduction by using all of these sorts of abilities, but it turns out all of these sources of healing were reduced as well. Which I guess makes sense as it means all healing was affected equally.

Now as to what this means for the Ring of the Pale Order. Assuming it follows the same approach, this will mean that effectively it will heal for 15%*0.8 = 12% of the damage you see in PvP.

@ExistingRug61 Thank you for this, very well thought out and explained. Took me a couple reads to find out where you got the 80% from, but that seems to be pretty accurate, especially now that healing reduction on battlespirit is no longer the exact same number for damage reduction. Logically speaking, it should be based on the -60% from BS, not the -50%.

Maybe I can find someone to enter cyro with sometime to test a light attack or 2 lol.

Battlespirit is applied in a duel👍

Celestro

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Lagging with a half broken controller so ignore the terrible lps..

I stay mostly at full health until after around 20 stacks of frenzy even using blood for blood, which you could easily toggle off at this point then re-toggle.



EDIT:

Be interesting to see vampire actually have a purpose in end game.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
Quick question off topic, does the weapon/spell damage increase from simmering frenzy keep increasing indefinitely? (I know the cost increase does, but wasn't sure about the damage).

Because if it does, then it is theoretically possible to use enough multiplicative multipliers and tri cost reduction glyphs such that the increased damage you get from frenzy provides an increase in healing that outpaces the health cost increase, resulting in frenzy being sustainable indefinitely (until its cost simply becomes higher than your total health)

I previously theorised a couple of builds as a thought experiment to see if this was possible - using high crit and high crit damage as the main multiplicative multipliers (as well as some healing done/received, but crit is better as it also helps damage) in conjunction with the tri cost reduction glyphs. One was a stamblade that healed by doing damage using bloodthirst, blood craze and vigor, another being a petsorc sorc with regen and healing ward to heal and pets and the occasional frag for damage. In thoery these builds could reach some truly ridiculous weapon/spell damage, but I couldn't actually test them I don't have the gear and couldn't be bothered farming it just to test this (and can't use PTS as am on Xbox). Ring of the Pale Order actually would make such a build easier to achieve with less compromise, (although the crit chance nerfs have hindered them a bit) but I still don't know if it is even close to viable.

The damage increases indefinitely as does the spell/weapon damage.

Once you get to like 30 stacks it starts hurting for like 15k.. so it's probably not viable at that point.

Is it actually indefinitely? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it actually caps at 99 stacks around the time the skill was first implemented but I can't find where that was mentioned.

It did give me ideas on ways to try and test it with all manner of sources of healing, tri cost reduction glyphs, etc but never followed through with it fully since I couldn't test on the PTS and had to resort to doing so only live though only partially. With this ring though, that'd make things easier.

Vevvev

Celestro wrote: »

Is it actually indefinitely? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it actually caps at 99 stacks around the time the skill was first implemented but I can't find where that was mentioned.

It did give me ideas on ways to try and test it with all manner of sources of healing, tri cost reduction glyphs, etc but never followed through with it fully since I couldn't test on the PTS and had to resort to doing so only live though only partially. With this ring though, that'd make things easier.

I remember someone mentioning this to, but sadly forgot which thread it was. Thing is you'll need a TON of health to keep up with the drain and I'm not sure you could do enough damage with that health to keep up with the max drain.

That being said the ring would totally keep up with the drain at the lower stacks and would make things like Simmering Frenzy incredibly powerful.

Koubo

let's hope this item isn't going to be dead before release. Or just after. I want that kind of stuff on my Stamplar for example but if the healing is crap, it wont even worth to dig it like Stranglers right now.

ExistingRug61

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Lagging with a half broken controller so ignore the terrible lps..

I stay mostly at full health until after around 20 stacks of frenzy even using blood for blood, which you could easily toggle off at this point then re-toggle.



EDIT:

Be interesting to see vampire actually have a purpose in end game.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
Quick question off topic, does the weapon/spell damage increase from simmering frenzy keep increasing indefinitely? (I know the cost increase does, but wasn't sure about the damage).

Because if it does, then it is theoretically possible to use enough multiplicative multipliers and tri cost reduction glyphs such that the increased damage you get from frenzy provides an increase in healing that outpaces the health cost increase, resulting in frenzy being sustainable indefinitely (until its cost simply becomes higher than your total health)

I previously theorised a couple of builds as a thought experiment to see if this was possible - using high crit and high crit damage as the main multiplicative multipliers (as well as some healing done/received, but crit is better as it also helps damage) in conjunction with the tri cost reduction glyphs. One was a stamblade that healed by doing damage using bloodthirst, blood craze and vigor, another being a petsorc sorc with regen and healing ward to heal and pets and the occasional frag for damage. In thoery these builds could reach some truly ridiculous weapon/spell damage, but I couldn't actually test them I don't have the gear and couldn't be bothered farming it just to test this (and can't use PTS as am on Xbox). Ring of the Pale Order actually would make such a build easier to achieve with less compromise, (although the crit chance nerfs have hindered them a bit) but I still don't know if it is even close to viable.

The damage increases indefinitely as does the spell/weapon damage.

Once you get to like 30 stacks it starts hurting for like 15k.. so it's probably not viable at that point.

Vevvev wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Is it actually indefinitely? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it actually caps at 99 stacks around the time the skill was first implemented but I can't find where that was mentioned.

It did give me ideas on ways to try and test it with all manner of sources of healing, tri cost reduction glyphs, etc but never followed through with it fully since I couldn't test on the PTS and had to resort to doing so only live though only partially. With this ring though, that'd make things easier.

I remember someone mentioning this to, but sadly forgot which thread it was. Thing is you'll need a TON of health to keep up with the drain and I'm not sure you could do enough damage with that health to keep up with the max drain.

That being said the ring would totally keep up with the drain at the lower stacks and would make things like Simmering Frenzy incredibly powerful.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO @Vevvev
Oh its certainly theoretically possible to sustain. You do have to make some fairly severe build compromises though which likely makes it less viable.
See my recent theorycraft post on this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547278/sustainable-simmering-frenzy-in-markath-theorycraft-build/p1?new=1
(keep in mind this is all theoretical, I can't test this as I'm on Xbox)

Celestro

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Lagging with a half broken controller so ignore the terrible lps..

I stay mostly at full health until after around 20 stacks of frenzy even using blood for blood, which you could easily toggle off at this point then re-toggle.



EDIT:

Be interesting to see vampire actually have a purpose in end game.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
Quick question off topic, does the weapon/spell damage increase from simmering frenzy keep increasing indefinitely? (I know the cost increase does, but wasn't sure about the damage).

Because if it does, then it is theoretically possible to use enough multiplicative multipliers and tri cost reduction glyphs such that the increased damage you get from frenzy provides an increase in healing that outpaces the health cost increase, resulting in frenzy being sustainable indefinitely (until its cost simply becomes higher than your total health)

I previously theorised a couple of builds as a thought experiment to see if this was possible - using high crit and high crit damage as the main multiplicative multipliers (as well as some healing done/received, but crit is better as it also helps damage) in conjunction with the tri cost reduction glyphs. One was a stamblade that healed by doing damage using bloodthirst, blood craze and vigor, another being a petsorc sorc with regen and healing ward to heal and pets and the occasional frag for damage. In thoery these builds could reach some truly ridiculous weapon/spell damage, but I couldn't actually test them I don't have the gear and couldn't be bothered farming it just to test this (and can't use PTS as am on Xbox). Ring of the Pale Order actually would make such a build easier to achieve with less compromise, (although the crit chance nerfs have hindered them a bit) but I still don't know if it is even close to viable.

The damage increases indefinitely as does the spell/weapon damage.

Once you get to like 30 stacks it starts hurting for like 15k.. so it's probably not viable at that point.

Vevvev wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Is it actually indefinitely? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it actually caps at 99 stacks around the time the skill was first implemented but I can't find where that was mentioned.

It did give me ideas on ways to try and test it with all manner of sources of healing, tri cost reduction glyphs, etc but never followed through with it fully since I couldn't test on the PTS and had to resort to doing so only live though only partially. With this ring though, that'd make things easier.

I remember someone mentioning this to, but sadly forgot which thread it was. Thing is you'll need a TON of health to keep up with the drain and I'm not sure you could do enough damage with that health to keep up with the max drain.

That being said the ring would totally keep up with the drain at the lower stacks and would make things like Simmering Frenzy incredibly powerful.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO @Vevvev
Oh its certainly theoretically possible to sustain. You do have to make some fairly severe build compromises though which likely makes it less viable.
See my recent theorycraft post on this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547278/sustainable-simmering-frenzy-in-markath-theorycraft-build/p1?new=1
(keep in mind this is all theoretical, I can't test this as I'm on Xbox)

Haha yep the same general idea I had during that vampire patch. I debated a lot between the same classes you mentioned given the abilities with percentage based healing from dealing damage with skills and other HoTs to keep Health afloat from like Bloodthrist and Critical Surge, Briarheart/Bahara's Curse (medium) for stamsorc and Puncturing Sweeps, Ritual of Retribution, Vampire Lord and Bahara's Curse (light) primarily for a magplar, with tri glyphs as well. I opted for higher than average Health just because I knew I couldn't rely solely on the "burst" heal of Bloodthrist to keep me topped off but could never pin down a sufficient enough monster set between Bloodgore, Chokethorn, Nightflame or Scourge Harvester. Criticals was a major focus too, especially in the case of attempting with Briarheart.

I started thinking this up again this patch but you got largely a lot of what I would've opted for this go around with the addition of the ring haha. Also wouldve gone with Tzogovin considering, if I'm not mistaken, the ring doesn't provide healing from damage dealt with Relequen being a proc set.

ExistingRug61

Celestro wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Lagging with a half broken controller so ignore the terrible lps..

I stay mostly at full health until after around 20 stacks of frenzy even using blood for blood, which you could easily toggle off at this point then re-toggle.



EDIT:

Be interesting to see vampire actually have a purpose in end game.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
Quick question off topic, does the weapon/spell damage increase from simmering frenzy keep increasing indefinitely? (I know the cost increase does, but wasn't sure about the damage).

Because if it does, then it is theoretically possible to use enough multiplicative multipliers and tri cost reduction glyphs such that the increased damage you get from frenzy provides an increase in healing that outpaces the health cost increase, resulting in frenzy being sustainable indefinitely (until its cost simply becomes higher than your total health)

I previously theorised a couple of builds as a thought experiment to see if this was possible - using high crit and high crit damage as the main multiplicative multipliers (as well as some healing done/received, but crit is better as it also helps damage) in conjunction with the tri cost reduction glyphs. One was a stamblade that healed by doing damage using bloodthirst, blood craze and vigor, another being a petsorc sorc with regen and healing ward to heal and pets and the occasional frag for damage. In thoery these builds could reach some truly ridiculous weapon/spell damage, but I couldn't actually test them I don't have the gear and couldn't be bothered farming it just to test this (and can't use PTS as am on Xbox). Ring of the Pale Order actually would make such a build easier to achieve with less compromise, (although the crit chance nerfs have hindered them a bit) but I still don't know if it is even close to viable.

The damage increases indefinitely as does the spell/weapon damage.

Once you get to like 30 stacks it starts hurting for like 15k.. so it's probably not viable at that point.

Vevvev wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Is it actually indefinitely? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it actually caps at 99 stacks around the time the skill was first implemented but I can't find where that was mentioned.

It did give me ideas on ways to try and test it with all manner of sources of healing, tri cost reduction glyphs, etc but never followed through with it fully since I couldn't test on the PTS and had to resort to doing so only live though only partially. With this ring though, that'd make things easier.

I remember someone mentioning this to, but sadly forgot which thread it was. Thing is you'll need a TON of health to keep up with the drain and I'm not sure you could do enough damage with that health to keep up with the max drain.

That being said the ring would totally keep up with the drain at the lower stacks and would make things like Simmering Frenzy incredibly powerful.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO @Vevvev
Oh its certainly theoretically possible to sustain. You do have to make some fairly severe build compromises though which likely makes it less viable.
See my recent theorycraft post on this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547278/sustainable-simmering-frenzy-in-markath-theorycraft-build/p1?new=1
(keep in mind this is all theoretical, I can't test this as I'm on Xbox)

Haha yep the same general idea I had during that vampire patch. I debated a lot between the same classes you mentioned given the abilities with percentage based healing from dealing damage with skills and other HoTs to keep Health afloat from like Bloodthrist and Critical Surge, Briarheart/Bahara's Curse (medium) for stamsorc and Puncturing Sweeps, Ritual of Retribution, Vampire Lord and Bahara's Curse (light) primarily for a magplar, with tri glyphs as well. I opted for higher than average Health just because I knew I couldn't rely solely on the "burst" heal of Bloodthrist to keep me topped off but could never pin down a sufficient enough monster set between Bloodgore, Chokethorn, Nightflame or Scourge Harvester. Criticals was a major focus too, especially in the case of attempting with Briarheart.

I started thinking this up again this patch but you got largely a lot of what I would've opted for this go around with the addition of the ring haha. Also wouldve gone with Tzogovin considering, if I'm not mistaken, the ring doesn't provide healing from damage dealt with Relequen being a proc set.

Yeah, I guess the only difference I had is I didn't even consider any heal source that didn't scale with damage, so no crit surge, bahara's etc as while these may help initially, they don't ramp up with the stacks of frenzy so don't help as much at high stack values.
The ring certainly made things easier. Before I had to consider something like a rotation of including Vigor and Bloodthirst on cooldown while spamming Bloodthirst to get enough heals.

In my case with Relequen, even though the ring doesn't heal from it, hps in that build is in theory already sufficient so it can potentially not need the extra crit chance/damage from Tzogvin for the healing side and then its just a question of whether Relequen give more dps due to slayer and winds, but I couldn't really asses that.

Celestro

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Lagging with a half broken controller so ignore the terrible lps..

I stay mostly at full health until after around 20 stacks of frenzy even using blood for blood, which you could easily toggle off at this point then re-toggle.



EDIT:

Be interesting to see vampire actually have a purpose in end game.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
Quick question off topic, does the weapon/spell damage increase from simmering frenzy keep increasing indefinitely? (I know the cost increase does, but wasn't sure about the damage).

Because if it does, then it is theoretically possible to use enough multiplicative multipliers and tri cost reduction glyphs such that the increased damage you get from frenzy provides an increase in healing that outpaces the health cost increase, resulting in frenzy being sustainable indefinitely (until its cost simply becomes higher than your total health)

I previously theorised a couple of builds as a thought experiment to see if this was possible - using high crit and high crit damage as the main multiplicative multipliers (as well as some healing done/received, but crit is better as it also helps damage) in conjunction with the tri cost reduction glyphs. One was a stamblade that healed by doing damage using bloodthirst, blood craze and vigor, another being a petsorc sorc with regen and healing ward to heal and pets and the occasional frag for damage. In thoery these builds could reach some truly ridiculous weapon/spell damage, but I couldn't actually test them I don't have the gear and couldn't be bothered farming it just to test this (and can't use PTS as am on Xbox). Ring of the Pale Order actually would make such a build easier to achieve with less compromise, (although the crit chance nerfs have hindered them a bit) but I still don't know if it is even close to viable.

The damage increases indefinitely as does the spell/weapon damage.

Once you get to like 30 stacks it starts hurting for like 15k.. so it's probably not viable at that point.

Vevvev wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Is it actually indefinitely? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it actually caps at 99 stacks around the time the skill was first implemented but I can't find where that was mentioned.

It did give me ideas on ways to try and test it with all manner of sources of healing, tri cost reduction glyphs, etc but never followed through with it fully since I couldn't test on the PTS and had to resort to doing so only live though only partially. With this ring though, that'd make things easier.

I remember someone mentioning this to, but sadly forgot which thread it was. Thing is you'll need a TON of health to keep up with the drain and I'm not sure you could do enough damage with that health to keep up with the max drain.

That being said the ring would totally keep up with the drain at the lower stacks and would make things like Simmering Frenzy incredibly powerful.

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO @Vevvev
Oh its certainly theoretically possible to sustain. You do have to make some fairly severe build compromises though which likely makes it less viable.
See my recent theorycraft post on this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547278/sustainable-simmering-frenzy-in-markath-theorycraft-build/p1?new=1
(keep in mind this is all theoretical, I can't test this as I'm on Xbox)

Haha yep the same general idea I had during that vampire patch. I debated a lot between the same classes you mentioned given the abilities with percentage based healing from dealing damage with skills and other HoTs to keep Health afloat from like Bloodthrist and Critical Surge, Briarheart/Bahara's Curse (medium) for stamsorc and Puncturing Sweeps, Ritual of Retribution, Vampire Lord and Bahara's Curse (light) primarily for a magplar, with tri glyphs as well. I opted for higher than average Health just because I knew I couldn't rely solely on the "burst" heal of Bloodthrist to keep me topped off but could never pin down a sufficient enough monster set between Bloodgore, Chokethorn, Nightflame or Scourge Harvester. Criticals was a major focus too, especially in the case of attempting with Briarheart.

I started thinking this up again this patch but you got largely a lot of what I would've opted for this go around with the addition of the ring haha. Also wouldve gone with Tzogovin considering, if I'm not mistaken, the ring doesn't provide healing from damage dealt with Relequen being a proc set.

Yeah, I guess the only difference I had is I didn't even consider any heal source that didn't scale with damage, so no crit surge, bahara's etc as while these may help initially, they don't ramp up with the stacks of frenzy so don't help as much at high stack values.
The ring certainly made things easier. Before I had to consider something like a rotation of including Vigor and Bloodthirst on cooldown while spamming Bloodthirst to get enough heals.

In my case with Relequen, even though the ring doesn't heal from it, hps in that build is in theory already sufficient so it can potentially not need the extra crit chance/damage from Tzogvin for the healing side and then its just a question of whether Relequen give more dps due to slayer and winds, but I couldn't really asses that.

Oh yeah I was largely trying to see how far I could take the stacks up to. I never envisioned it being too viable in a lot of situations.

And that's fair. Relequen would likely deal more single target damage while Tzogvin probably being better for AoE.

MrZeDark

I have to type up a response to the official thread, but the tldr -

My necro has a 4K gain using this, over my monster helm. I have been using simmering for a long time, and it’s not a dramatic change. As once simmering hits the cost of your total life / it shuts off.

MashmalloMan

MrZeDark wrote: »

I have to type up a response to the official thread, but the tldr -

My necro has a 4K gain using this, over my monster helm. I have been using simmering for a long time, and it’s not a dramatic change. As once simmering hits the cost of your total life / it shuts off.

I had similar results fighting some world bosses solo so take it with a grain of salt if you don't feel like thats a valid test, but so far, it feels very good. I originally only slotted Simmering to test how much HPS the ring could give in comparison to crit surge, since it only documents heals that hit your lost health, not over healing I had to remain lower.

Crit Surge + Ring + Simmering Frenzy allowed me to hit upwards of 15-20 stacks before I felt the need to toggle it, but I didn't optimize well for it if I'm honest. It was my first time using Simmering Frenzy so I definitely messed up my rotation getting the hang of it. Storm Atro/Caltrops are bugged right now, I only had 2.5k pen from CP and my health was only 15k not leaving a lot of wiggle room.

That said, frenzy boosted my damage from about 37k to 43k. I used VO + Advancing Yokeda + 1 crit piece (1 heavy/6 med). VO replaced for a more damage oriented set like Relequen (less healing from ring, but way more dps), Hundings or even Tzogvin to save bar space could definitely go higher.

The 1 skill alone would be giving me up to 1500 weapon damage (pre multipliers) at around 20 stacks outpacing any monster set loss from using this ring. Even at the base 630 weapon damage, thats better than sets like Balorgh, Stone Husk and Domihaus, similar stat boosting sets..

The combination above is definitely interesting to say the least for solo play. At around 40k dps, the ring was equal in value to crit surge for health per second on combat metrix so it's reasonable to say it would shoot up in effectiveness past what crit surge can do the higher my dps became.

So for any class that wanted a damage oriented healing setup akin to sorc, the ring + simmering can easily enable that with what seems like very little lost. Now everyone can be a sorc, at least for solo content, not sure how group content will work, but I'd imagine it would be easier because you're not the 1 with agro. I think it's in a pretty good place, I just hope it's not actually over performing when we get better ways to test it.. giving it a huge nerf like 5% or something in a patch or 2. I think it would still be amazing at 10-12% though.

KingShocker

The main reason to get thing ring IMO is for the new arena where your by yourself anyways. I think it would probably also be good for proc'ing sets that proc on heal

ExistingRug61

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

I have to type up a response to the official thread, but the tldr -

My necro has a 4K gain using this, over my monster helm. I have been using simmering for a long time, and it’s not a dramatic change. As once simmering hits the cost of your total life / it shuts off.

I had similar results fighting some world bosses solo so take it with a grain of salt if you don't feel like thats a valid test, but so far, it feels very good. I originally only slotted Simmering to test how much HPS the ring could give in comparison to crit surge, since it only documents heals that hit your lost health, not over healing I had to remain lower.

Crit Surge + Ring + Simmering Frenzy allowed me to hit upwards of 15-20 stacks before I felt the need to toggle it, but I didn't optimize well for it if I'm honest. It was my first time using Simmering Frenzy so I definitely messed up my rotation getting the hang of it. Storm Atro/Caltrops are bugged right now, I only had 2.5k pen from CP and my health was only 15k not leaving a lot of wiggle room.

That said, frenzy boosted my damage from about 37k to 43k. I used VO + Advancing Yokeda + 1 crit piece (1 heavy/6 med). VO replaced for a more damage oriented set like Relequen (less healing from ring, but way more dps), Hundings or even Tzogvin to save bar space could definitely go higher.

The 1 skill alone would be giving me up to 1500 weapon damage (pre multipliers) at around 20 stacks outpacing any monster set loss from using this ring. Even at the base 630 weapon damage, thats better than sets like Balorgh, Stone Husk and Domihaus, similar stat boosting sets..

The combination above is definitely interesting to say the least for solo play. At around 40k dps, the ring was equal in value to crit surge for health per second on combat metrix so it's reasonable to say it would shoot up in effectiveness past what crit surge can do the higher my dps became.

So for any class that wanted a damage oriented healing setup akin to sorc, the ring + simmering can easily enable that with what seems like very little lost. Now everyone can be a sorc, at least for solo content, not sure how group content will work, but I'd imagine it would be easier because you're not the 1 with agro. I think it's in a pretty good place, I just hope it's not actually over performing when we get better ways to test it.. giving it a huge nerf like 5% or something in a patch or 2. I think it would still be amazing at 10-12% though.

It gets a bit more interesting if you build for simmering more.
If you go full on with cost reduction for it, ie: 3x infused tri cost reduction glyphs plus vampire lord set at stage 4, then the cost becomes significantly less. At 100 stacks (which is the highest builder goes, and has been mentioned as possibly a hard cap) the cost is only ~15k h/s (less if you are a sorc). Although a side issue could be the increased cost of non-vampire skills, but this can be mitigated using blood for blood as spammable.

With the ring healing from damage as well as some other supplementary heals, this should be manageable.

So as well as giving up the monster set for the ring, this also gives up all your jewellery glyphs and enchants and an entire second 5 piece (although it still helps a bit if you are mag). But at 100 stacks you gain 630 + 630*0.1*100 = 6930 base spell damage/weapon damage if you sustain it.

For instance, here's a magblade I threw together.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=278296
(note: I actually have 6 pieces of vampire lord on there, one of the rings is a placeholder for Ring of the Pale Order)
The only buffs it is using are from spell power pots.

Casting Radiating Regen + Swallow soul every 10sec, is close to enough healing alone to keep up with frenzy, although somewhat reliant on swallow soul being a critical hit (hence I really pushed crit chance a bit more than may otherwise be optimal). note: healing ward was added to the back bar to supplement at times where there is no target for swallow soul, but I'm not sure it is enough although the low health scaling might make the difference.
The rest of the time you spend doing a somewhat normal rotation for damage and rely on ring for the additional healing, which should make up the difference and provide a surplus to deal with incoming damage.
I'm sure the same could also be achieve on the other classes as well, especially those that have healing on attacking backed in already, like sorc or sweeps magplar.

One practical downside is that there is possibility of a small window after paying the frenzy cost but before you get a heal where your health is low and you are vulnerable to dying. Conversely if you take significant damage just before having to pay the frenzy cost you might not have enough health. Also if you get an unlucky run of crits on the heals from regen it may be an issue. There is very low margin for error.
These could be mitigated by adding more health as a buffer, but obviously that comes at the cost of damage.

Not really sure if this could end up being strong enough or viable due to the practical considerations, but it certainly raises some interesting possibilities.

MincVinyl

Can we simply talk about how this ring is more vampire than the entire vampire skill line?

How did they do a vampire rework and manage to not put lifesteal as the main focus of the kit?