I like less AOE( an opinion formed by the cyrodill tests)

relentless_turnip

Perhaps a controversial opinion... This is my experience after the week 1 test.

I would like to also mention that I think this should only be in effect in a PvP zone.

Initially I hated it, but after removing as much aoe as I could from my build(the only build I could use) I really love it.

Performance is obviously a lot better, but aside from that it is a much healthier environment. I enjoy having to pick a target and stick to it and as fun as it is to put pressure on a group of enemies I don't think this should be the case.

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

I would like hots, heals and buffs to have an option to make them self target and not shared with a group(and never work outside a group). Things like leeching vines for example most the time you want this cast on yourself, but it does an unwanted radius check and gives it to someone else.

The last 2 suggested aoe tests by zos regarding groups could be adequate solutions after a skill audit to make as many skills single target. I would like to add that cooldowns and escalating costs only apply to groups with more than 3 members with shared heals, hots and buffs enabled. Rather than it being a blanket rule for all types of groups. These cooldowns and costs I think could be even greater than currently suggested with this rule set. Say 6 secs cooldown for anyone with more than 3 members with shared effects enabled.

A coordinated group in this instance can still do a lot of damage, but not be unkillable. This creates room for healers in PvP as well, without killing them. With groups being cut in half I think they will be truly in demand.

Any group purge imo should always have a cooldown.

I appreciate as a player this affords me my own bias, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Berchelous

How are healers not killed? Almost all healing skills are AoE.

Purge is already an expensive skill for all classes except Templar's skill. Therefore, cooldown is useless because 3-4 spam depletes nearly all magicka.

Overall, even though i'm against AoE changes, it's good to hear different opinions.

relentless_turnip

Berchelous wrote: »

How are healers not killed? Almost all healing skills are AoE.

Purge is already an expensive skill for all classes except Templar's skill. Therefore, cooldown is useless because 3-4 spam depletes nearly all magicka.

Overall, even though i'm against AoE changes, it's good to hear different opinions.

As I suggested healers will have shared heals, hots and buffs enabled allowing them to spam as much as they like up to 3 in a group. Non healers will have their heals, hots and buffs set to only effect themselves.

Thanks for you opinion and giving it a read 👍

Major_Lag

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

Strider__Roshin

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

AcadianPaladin

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

relentless_turnip

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Thanks man! I'm sure most people won't let me get away with it 😂

relentless_turnip

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

Totally agree, I wouldn't want it to effect grouping outside of PvP. Thank you for your input👍

relentless_turnip

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

Strider__Roshin

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

The purpose of this experiment is to fix the poor performance in Cyrodiil. I would hope that the changes they make stay in the pvp realm.

Major_Lag

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

I understood that was presumably the intention, just wanted to point it out since it wasn't made clear in the OP.

I'd also like to throw you another bone here: if we're also talking about ST healing abilities for PvP - that would be a interesting idea, but first the game's horrible targeting system would need to be fixed somehow.

Last year I experimented with using Symbiosis on my PvP healer - that was shortly before the ability got nerfed hard, but I digress - and it was a nightmare, as it would target exactly everyone else BUT the one player I wanted to throw heals at, never mind that it would also preferentially target allied pets instead of players if any were nearby.

ganzaeso

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

You must be unaware of the current test running in Cyrodiil. Right now AOE has a 3 second shared cooldown that is not present in PvE.

PvE is completely unaffected by this.

SeaGtGruff

It's good to hear that someone else has discovered that targeting close enemies using physical attacks and stamina abilities can be a lot more fun than simply melting a huge group of enemies quickly from afar by spamming AOE attacks.

But as someone who's been using that approach since pretty much the beginning of my ESO gaming experience (just slightly over 3 years now), I must say that the idea of removing all multi-target abilities and making everything single-target would not go over very well. I do rely the most on my best single-target attack because it does more damage, but there are times when I must instead use my best multi-target physical attack because I'm being swarmed by too many enemies at once and my only hope of survival is to do damage to multiple enemies at once with each swing of my 2H weapon.

Also, while it can be annoying to be having my fun with a group of enemies and then suddenly have an OP player come along and insta-melt everything, there are plenty of situations where having an OP DD along can be one's best hope of getting through certain content. That goes for both OP stamina players and OP magicka players. Removing all AOE skills would not be a good thing for the game, because one of its strengths as a game is that it allows for so many different choices of character builds and types of play styles.

relentless_turnip

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

I understood that was presumably the intention, just wanted to point it out since it wasn't made clear in the OP.

I'd also like to throw you another bone here: if we're also talking about ST healing abilities for PvP - that would be a interesting idea, but first the game's horrible targeting system would need to be fixed somehow.

Last year I experimented with using Symbiosis on my PvP healer - that was shortly before the ability got nerfed hard, but I digress - and it was a nightmare, as it would target exactly everyone else BUT the one player I wanted to throw heals at, never mind that it would also preferentially target allied pets instead of players if any were nearby.

Yeah single target heals would be a nightmare and it sounds like your experience reinforces that. Smart healing and aoe was the only way they could make this work I guess.

My suggestion would allow healing to remain the same, but not allowing more than 3 people per group to be able to do it. Having more than 3 would introduce cooldowns and ramping costs.

I'm not sure I made it clear, but I would like an option added to set your heals, hots and buffs to be set either to: share with group or individual.

relentless_turnip

ganzaeso wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

You must be unaware of the current test running in Cyrodiil. Right now AOE has a 3 second shared cooldown that is not present in PvE.

PvE is completely unaffected by this.

I think he is aware, perhaps I didn't make myself clear it was a PvP suggestion with the current tests in mind.

TequilaFire

It does kind of make it a bow ganker's paradise.

Rungar

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Strider__Roshin

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

kargen27

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

I understood that was presumably the intention, just wanted to point it out since it wasn't made clear in the OP.

I'd also like to throw you another bone here: if we're also talking about ST healing abilities for PvP - that would be a interesting idea, but first the game's horrible targeting system would need to be fixed somehow.

Last year I experimented with using Symbiosis on my PvP healer - that was shortly before the ability got nerfed hard, but I digress - and it was a nightmare, as it would target exactly everyone else BUT the one player I wanted to throw heals at, never mind that it would also preferentially target allied pets instead of players if any were nearby.

Yeah single target heals would be a nightmare and it sounds like your experience reinforces that. Smart healing and aoe was the only way they could make this work I guess.

My suggestion would allow healing to remain the same, but not allowing more than 3 people per group to be able to do it. Having more than 3 would introduce cooldowns and ramping costs.

I'm not sure I made it clear, but I would like an option added to set your heals, hots and buffs to be set either to: share with group or individual.

The three healer limit is not a good idea. For that to work heals would need to be set to work inside group only and that would be a horrible change to the game. A person shouldn't be forced into joining a group to participate. Tag along healing is a viable play style in Cyrodiil and it should not be removed. It would be akin to not allowing DPS skills to work unless you are in a group of at least eight players.

zaria

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

This, this would hurt everything very hard from vet trials to public dungeons, it would also kill fun and make stuff tedious.
The only winners would be the LA, snipe and crystal frag spammers.
And you can not make single target skills too strong or they would make it too easy to gank.

Linaleah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

today, I ran into people of my faction in IC, fighting players of one of the opposing faction and I healed them. we were not grouped. but they are in theory my allies, and so i jumped in to help. with your design, this will no longer be possible, and i'm not entirely sure it makes for as fun of a gameplay.

zaria

kargen27 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

I understood that was presumably the intention, just wanted to point it out since it wasn't made clear in the OP.

I'd also like to throw you another bone here: if we're also talking about ST healing abilities for PvP - that would be a interesting idea, but first the game's horrible targeting system would need to be fixed somehow.

Last year I experimented with using Symbiosis on my PvP healer - that was shortly before the ability got nerfed hard, but I digress - and it was a nightmare, as it would target exactly everyone else BUT the one player I wanted to throw heals at, never mind that it would also preferentially target allied pets instead of players if any were nearby.

Yeah single target heals would be a nightmare and it sounds like your experience reinforces that. Smart healing and aoe was the only way they could make this work I guess.

My suggestion would allow healing to remain the same, but not allowing more than 3 people per group to be able to do it. Having more than 3 would introduce cooldowns and ramping costs.

I'm not sure I made it clear, but I would like an option added to set your heals, hots and buffs to be set either to: share with group or individual.

The three healer limit is not a good idea. For that to work heals would need to be set to work inside group only and that would be a horrible change to the game. A person shouldn't be forced into joining a group to participate. Tag along healing is a viable play style in Cyrodiil and it should not be removed. It would be akin to not allowing DPS skills to work unless you are in a group of at least eight players.

How would the 3 player limit work in trials? How about healing outside of groups like on harrow storms and dragons.

TineaCruris

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Perhaps a controversial opinion...

Initially I hated it, but after removing as much aoe as I could from my build(the only build I could use) I really love it.

Performance is obviously a lot better, but aside from that it is a much healthier environment. I enjoy having to pick a target and stick to it and as fun as it is to put pressure on a group of enemies I don't think this should be the case.

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

I would like hots, heals and buffs to have an option to make them self target and not shared with a group(and never work outside a group). Things like leeching vines for example most the time you want this cast on yourself, but it does an unwanted radius check and gives it to someone else.

The last 2 suggested aoe tests by zos regarding groups could be adequate solutions after a skill audit to make as many skills single target. I would like to add that cooldowns and escalating costs only apply to groups with more than 3 members with shared heals, hots and buffs enabled. Rather than it being a blanket rule for all types of groups. These cooldowns and costs I think could be even greater than currently suggested with this rule set. Say 6 secs cooldown for anyone with more than 3 members with shared effects enabled.

A coordinated group in this instance can still do a lot of damage, but not be unkillable. This creates room for healers in PvP as well, without killing them. With groups being cut in half I think they will be truly in demand.

Any group purge imo should always have a cooldown.

I appreciate as a player this affords me my own bias, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Is this supposed to be some kind of abstract reverse psychology?

Canned_Apples

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

markulrich1966

remove AOE.

There is queen of the reef in summerset, a huge crab with many many cute little tiny crabs.

It got more difficult to solo her when the iceheart set was nerfed.
So you could enjoy even longer to play with the small cuties.

If we remove AOE damage, the real fun will begin. You then can play for hours with them
Well, if you are tanky enough to survive the cute, but unhealthy little pets.

summary: I wonder how much effort it will take to rebuild all the world and dungeon bosses so that they still can be done with reduced AOE damage.

kargen27

zaria wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

I should mention this would only be in effect in a PvP environment 👍

I understood that was presumably the intention, just wanted to point it out since it wasn't made clear in the OP.

I'd also like to throw you another bone here: if we're also talking about ST healing abilities for PvP - that would be a interesting idea, but first the game's horrible targeting system would need to be fixed somehow.

Last year I experimented with using Symbiosis on my PvP healer - that was shortly before the ability got nerfed hard, but I digress - and it was a nightmare, as it would target exactly everyone else BUT the one player I wanted to throw heals at, never mind that it would also preferentially target allied pets instead of players if any were nearby.

Yeah single target heals would be a nightmare and it sounds like your experience reinforces that. Smart healing and aoe was the only way they could make this work I guess.

My suggestion would allow healing to remain the same, but not allowing more than 3 people per group to be able to do it. Having more than 3 would introduce cooldowns and ramping costs.

I'm not sure I made it clear, but I would like an option added to set your heals, hots and buffs to be set either to: share with group or individual.

The three healer limit is not a good idea. For that to work heals would need to be set to work inside group only and that would be a horrible change to the game. A person shouldn't be forced into joining a group to participate. Tag along healing is a viable play style in Cyrodiil and it should not be removed. It would be akin to not allowing DPS skills to work unless you are in a group of at least eight players.

How would the 3 player limit work in trials? How about healing outside of groups like on harrow storms and dragons.

It wouldn't. It is a bad idea for both PvP and PvE.

relentless_turnip

TineaCruris wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Perhaps a controversial opinion...

Initially I hated it, but after removing as much aoe as I could from my build(the only build I could use) I really love it.

Performance is obviously a lot better, but aside from that it is a much healthier environment. I enjoy having to pick a target and stick to it and as fun as it is to put pressure on a group of enemies I don't think this should be the case.

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

I would like hots, heals and buffs to have an option to make them self target and not shared with a group(and never work outside a group). Things like leeching vines for example most the time you want this cast on yourself, but it does an unwanted radius check and gives it to someone else.

The last 2 suggested aoe tests by zos regarding groups could be adequate solutions after a skill audit to make as many skills single target. I would like to add that cooldowns and escalating costs only apply to groups with more than 3 members with shared heals, hots and buffs enabled. Rather than it being a blanket rule for all types of groups. These cooldowns and costs I think could be even greater than currently suggested with this rule set. Say 6 secs cooldown for anyone with more than 3 members with shared effects enabled.

A coordinated group in this instance can still do a lot of damage, but not be unkillable. This creates room for healers in PvP as well, without killing them. With groups being cut in half I think they will be truly in demand.

Any group purge imo should always have a cooldown.

I appreciate as a player this affords me my own bias, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Is this supposed to be some kind of abstract reverse psychology?

No, cyrodill gameplay is genuinely more fun and engaging when you can't just spam aoe.

relentless_turnip

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

relentless_turnip

markulrich1966 wrote: »

remove AOE.

There is queen of the reef in summerset, a huge crab with many many cute little tiny crabs.

It got more difficult to solo her when the iceheart set was nerfed.
So you could enjoy even longer to play with the small cuties.

If we remove AOE damage, the real fun will begin. You then can play for hours with them
Well, if you are tanky enough to survive the cute, but unhealthy little pets.

summary: I wonder how much effort it will take to rebuild all the world and dungeon bosses so that they still can be done with reduced AOE damage.

I don't think your ability to solo the crab boss will be hugely effected 😂

I'm pretty sure I've done that on most my characters. I get your point though...
I would like it if these changes only effected PvP areas. Even if skills became single target in a PvP zone, I don't know how doable that is though...

Linaleah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

combat feels better.. to YOU. it feels worse to me. I enjoy being able to AoE. I do NOT enjoy being forced into single target.

relentless_turnip

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

combat feels better.. to YOU. it feels worse to me. I enjoy being able to AoE. I do NOT enjoy being forced into single target.

Cool👍