I like less AOE( an opinion formed by the cyrodill tests)

Kory

For a while my nightblade had no aoe damage, even in group dungeons, and that was fine. I would just smoke single targets. Started using cleave/Brawler, and it's satisfying to use, and it also carries me through a lot of tougher content being able to target multiple enemies at a time.
I'm kind of the opposite of you, I've been burning through single targets, and then added an aoe ability, and now I feel it's the most necessary ability to have for a lot of the content.

gepe87

I dont see any changes to lag... Especially when DC groups appear...

Chilly-McFreeze

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Strider__Roshin

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

Strider__Roshin

@Chilly-McFreeze keep in mind that I'm big into games like Dark Souls, and Monster Hunter. I'm big into fast twitch combat; which favor a fast paced ST play style.

zvavi

I do enjoy using single target abilities more than aoe ones too, the problem is, magicka characters have many utility skills that count as aoe. Utility skills should not, ever, be on cooldown.

relentless_turnip

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

relentless_turnip

zvavi wrote: »

I do enjoy using single target abilities more than aoe ones too, the problem is, magicka characters have many utility skills that count as aoe. Utility skills should not, ever, be on cooldown.

My suggestion is that they audit skills to make as many ST as possible and add function to make all heals, hots and buffs only effect the caster. I explain this in more detail in my OP.

zvavi

relentless_turnip wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I do enjoy using single target abilities more than aoe ones too, the problem is, magicka characters have many utility skills that count as aoe. Utility skills should not, ever, be on cooldown.

My suggestion is that they audit skills to make as many ST as possible and add function to make all heals, hots and buffs only effect the caster. I explain this in more detail in my OP.

Which still rules out skills like ritual (Templars) streak(sorc) sorc shield (sorc).

And still cripples PvP healers.

techyeshic

I honestly cant tell for sure yet. Lag and desync are better but not completely gone and I have not seen all 3 factions locked. It dies feel fun, having abilities work; but I'm running classes and builds least affected. There are many I wont touch; including my main templar as this testing is very lopsided on who it gimps.

It would be better if we saw a plan on what they we would do for abilities to make other things work and make it more even, but the scary part to me is, I dont think they have one.

relentless_turnip

zvavi wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I do enjoy using single target abilities more than aoe ones too, the problem is, magicka characters have many utility skills that count as aoe. Utility skills should not, ever, be on cooldown.

My suggestion is that they audit skills to make as many ST as possible and add function to make all heals, hots and buffs only effect the caster. I explain this in more detail in my OP.

Which still rules out skills like ritual (Templars) streak(sorc) sorc shield (sorc).

And still cripples PvP healers.

I am suggesting a skill audit, so obviously streak for instance already has a ramping cost and as such already has a measure to cap spamming.
Ritual needs cooldown in my opinion, as I don't think you should be able to remove so much damage every second from everyone.
As suggested though if you could change a setting that made this self cast only, there would be no need for a cooldown.

As for healers I have also said in my OP that I think a dedicated healer would need to be in a group to heal other players. They would have their heals, hots and buffs set to shared, with a cap of 3 healers per group. Having more than 3 people sharing heals, hots and buffs would incur cooldowns and ramping costs. Like in the final test proposed by ZOS.

Chilly-McFreeze

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I can follow your line of reason and this wasn't ment as a jab at you personally. Your post just highlights the poin you mention yourself very well: that such suggestion would be horrible for nearly every other set up but especially for AoE heavy classes.

A nearly complete skill audit is a lot of work. Considering that we already are halfway through the skill audit it becomes a bit hilarious to even think a rework of the bigger part of the game's skillset is a good idea. It would shift so much power around that you can start balancing the game anew after the audit. One can't simply slap a fatigue on skills and call it a day, some AoEs are just too essential (jabs, streak/hardened, etc.).

Linaleah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

there is a reason your opinion is an unpopular one. I personaly very much disagree that its healthier for the game. why? because it takes the choice away from people who enjoy different gameplay style from the one you enjoy. right now - you can play single target builds and I can play AoE builds and we can both enjoy playing. with the change? one of us looses a playstyle their enjoy.

and I'm sorry but your healing suggestions are even worse.

part of the appeal of this game is that formal grouping is NOT required to join a group and contribute. your suggestion would completely remove that. right now, I can join a dragon fight for example on a spur and contribute, by both damage and healing without having to be invited to the group. your suggestion - removes that. it makes it less fun for me, cause now I can no longer randomly help out, or join in. informal nature of this game is removed. moreover - this will make the gap between players even worse, because it will make it near impossible for more average players to get anywhere near competing or completing content.

no. just no.

if single target abilities need buffs here and there, to make them more on par with AoE abilities when it comes to fighting against groups of mobs or what not - cool. but your suggestions will turn away a LOT of players for continuing to play. and that cannot possibly be healthy for the game.

relentless_turnip

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

there is a reason your opinion is an unpopular one. I personaly very much disagree that its healthier for the game. why? because it takes the choice away from people who enjoy different gameplay style from the one you enjoy. right now - you can play single target builds and I can play AoE builds and we can both enjoy playing. with the change? one of us looses a playstyle their enjoy.

and I'm sorry but your healing suggestions are even worse.

part of the appeal of this game is that formal grouping is NOT required to join a group and contribute. your suggestion would completely remove that. right now, I can join a dragon fight for example on a spur and contribute, by both damage and healing without having to be invited to the group. your suggestion - removes that. it makes it less fun for me, cause now I can no longer randomly help out, or join in. informal nature of this game is removed. moreover - this will make the gap between players even worse, because it will make it near impossible for more average players to get anywhere near competing or completing content.

no. just no.

if single target abilities need buffs here and there, to make them more on par with AoE abilities when it comes to fighting against groups of mobs or what not - cool. but your suggestions will turn away a LOT of players for continuing to play. and that cannot possibly be healthy for the game.

It was a PvP suggestion and as such am I only suggesting grouping and healing should have this effect in a PvP zone. Perhaps I didn't make that clear.

Totally respect your opinion and I love playing my aoe centric builds just as much and in many ways more than my ST builds. What I am saying is it is unhealthy in a PvP environment. Imagine any other PvP game where you have the option between one button that attacks one opponent and another that attacks all of them. At the moment I have a double DW necro that can kill 5 players together just as easily as it can kill one😂

I thought I would hate this test, I am now certain aoe needs drastically reducing in PvP zones. Having to pick and aim at a target has forced people to actually one v one, rather than running in their group spamming an aoe and hoping to hit everyone.

Again this is a PvP suggestion based on the ongoing tests, so if you want to weigh in on how it effects PvP, I would love to hear your thoughts.

WARchief10K

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

combat feels better.. to YOU. it feels worse to me. I enjoy being able to AoE. I do NOT enjoy being forced into single target.

Cool👍

I mean Lin has a point, just because you worked around it doesn't mean it's good. It's your personal opinion. Some characters also are locked into majority of their skills being aoe, like necromancers.

Unless the company comes back and gives single target versions of things, I dunno how you can be fine and enjoying less aoe's, but then also in the same breath say it should be PVP only.

If this was such a great change, why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well? Could it be because it isn't?

Moloch1514

Remember in an ESO live years back, Rich said it was too hard to balance PvP and PvE separately. Don't assume any changes from these tests would be PvP only as common sense would suggest. They never clarified yet that PvE wouldn't be affected.

Linaleah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

there is a reason your opinion is an unpopular one. I personaly very much disagree that its healthier for the game. why? because it takes the choice away from people who enjoy different gameplay style from the one you enjoy. right now - you can play single target builds and I can play AoE builds and we can both enjoy playing. with the change? one of us looses a playstyle their enjoy.

and I'm sorry but your healing suggestions are even worse.

part of the appeal of this game is that formal grouping is NOT required to join a group and contribute. your suggestion would completely remove that. right now, I can join a dragon fight for example on a spur and contribute, by both damage and healing without having to be invited to the group. your suggestion - removes that. it makes it less fun for me, cause now I can no longer randomly help out, or join in. informal nature of this game is removed. moreover - this will make the gap between players even worse, because it will make it near impossible for more average players to get anywhere near competing or completing content.

no. just no.

if single target abilities need buffs here and there, to make them more on par with AoE abilities when it comes to fighting against groups of mobs or what not - cool. but your suggestions will turn away a LOT of players for continuing to play. and that cannot possibly be healthy for the game.

It was a PvP suggestion and as such am I only suggesting grouping and healing should have this effect in a PvP zone. Perhaps I didn't make that clear.

Totally respect your opinion and I love playing my aoe centric builds just as much and in many ways more than my ST builds. What I am saying is it is unhealthy in a PvP environment. Imagine any other PvP game where you have the option between one button that attacks one opponent and another that attacks all of them. At the moment I have a double DW necro that can kill 5 players together just as easily as it can kill one😂

I thought I would hate this test, I am now certain aoe needs drastically reducing in PvP zones. Having to pick and aim at a target has forced people to actually one v one, rather than running in their group spamming an aoe and hoping to hit everyone.

Again this is a PvP suggestion based on the ongoing tests, so if you want to weigh in on how it effects PvP, I would love to hear your thoughts.

but that's the thing, it also affects pvp. right now, i can join in on a siege, or a point defense/attack and contribute. with your change, I will no longer be able to do so.

to expand. when/if I go into Cyrodil, I go grouped with my SO. but a lot of the time, what we do is look for activity and join in without formally joining in. when we do so now, my heals hit my SO AND other people around. with your change, this sort of informal joining of fights IN Cyrodil (or IC for that matter, because I have joined several fights in such an informal way during this event) - is no longer going to be possible.

moreover. pvp groups tend to be oftentimes larger then pve groups. limiting them to 3 healers and adding penalties to further healers -creates a situation where healers are less welcome. you are looking at it from a perspective of a dps. I'm looking at it from a perspective of a healer.

relentless_turnip

WARchief10K wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

combat feels better.. to YOU. it feels worse to me. I enjoy being able to AoE. I do NOT enjoy being forced into single target.

Cool👍

I mean Lin has a point, just because you worked around it doesn't mean it's good. It's your personal opinion. Some characters also are locked into majority of their skills being aoe, like necromancers.

Unless the company comes back and gives single target versions of things, I dunno how you can be fine and enjoying less aoe's, but then also in the same breath say it should be PVP only.

If this was such a great change, why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well? Could it be because it isn't?

I agree Lin does have point, regarding PVE which is why it is a PVP focused suggestion.

I am suggesting skills act differently in PVP, blastbones and shalks due to their nature would have to remain aoe and are already controlled by a delay of 3 secs. skills like jabs could very easily become single target in a PVP environment.
AOE stuns could have a cooldown as they shouldn't be spammed anyway. This is why i am suggesting a skill audit.

Saying why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well, is in my opinion a redundant question. We know these are completely different environments. PVP scenarios in most games are nearly always single target focused, PVE being able to burn down droves of meaningless mobs empowers the player and is fun. In PVP it is fun too, but firstly it is totally detrimental to performance and secondly creates an unhealthy environment where everyone balls together and spam aoe's without actually aiming at any one.

relentless_turnip

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Remember in an ESO live years back, Rich said it was too hard to balance PvP and PvE separately. Don't assume any changes from these tests would be PvP only as common sense would suggest. They never clarified yet that PvE wouldn't be affected.

We now know based on these tests that they can have completely different rules in different zones and they can do it with the flick of a switch with no server downtime. That would indicate to me that they can indeed balance separately, but would probably rather not as it is another learning curve for new players.

Linaleah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

WARchief10K wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

combat feels better.. to YOU. it feels worse to me. I enjoy being able to AoE. I do NOT enjoy being forced into single target.

Cool👍

I mean Lin has a point, just because you worked around it doesn't mean it's good. It's your personal opinion. Some characters also are locked into majority of their skills being aoe, like necromancers.

Unless the company comes back and gives single target versions of things, I dunno how you can be fine and enjoying less aoe's, but then also in the same breath say it should be PVP only.

If this was such a great change, why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well? Could it be because it isn't?

I agree Lin does have point, regarding PVE which is why it is a PVP focused suggestion.

I am suggesting skills act differently in PVP, blastbones and shalks due to their nature would have to remain aoe and are already controlled by a delay of 3 secs. skills like jabs could very easily become single target in a PVP environment.
AOE stuns could have a cooldown as they shouldn't be spammed anyway. This is why i am suggesting a skill audit.

Saying why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well, is in my opinion a redundant question. We know these are completely different environments. PVP scenarios in most games are nearly always single target focused, PVE being able to burn down droves of meaningless mobs empowers the player and is fun. In PVP it is fun too, but firstly it is totally detrimental to performance and secondly creates an unhealthy environment where everyone balls together and spam aoe's without actually aiming at any one.

I think we may also be engaging in different types of pvp. even in Cyrodil. because its not all about single target. when you are sieging a castle - its often about larger groups AND AoE.

relentless_turnip

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

there is a reason your opinion is an unpopular one. I personaly very much disagree that its healthier for the game. why? because it takes the choice away from people who enjoy different gameplay style from the one you enjoy. right now - you can play single target builds and I can play AoE builds and we can both enjoy playing. with the change? one of us looses a playstyle their enjoy.

and I'm sorry but your healing suggestions are even worse.

part of the appeal of this game is that formal grouping is NOT required to join a group and contribute. your suggestion would completely remove that. right now, I can join a dragon fight for example on a spur and contribute, by both damage and healing without having to be invited to the group. your suggestion - removes that. it makes it less fun for me, cause now I can no longer randomly help out, or join in. informal nature of this game is removed. moreover - this will make the gap between players even worse, because it will make it near impossible for more average players to get anywhere near competing or completing content.

no. just no.

if single target abilities need buffs here and there, to make them more on par with AoE abilities when it comes to fighting against groups of mobs or what not - cool. but your suggestions will turn away a LOT of players for continuing to play. and that cannot possibly be healthy for the game.

It was a PvP suggestion and as such am I only suggesting grouping and healing should have this effect in a PvP zone. Perhaps I didn't make that clear.

Totally respect your opinion and I love playing my aoe centric builds just as much and in many ways more than my ST builds. What I am saying is it is unhealthy in a PvP environment. Imagine any other PvP game where you have the option between one button that attacks one opponent and another that attacks all of them. At the moment I have a double DW necro that can kill 5 players together just as easily as it can kill one😂

I thought I would hate this test, I am now certain aoe needs drastically reducing in PvP zones. Having to pick and aim at a target has forced people to actually one v one, rather than running in their group spamming an aoe and hoping to hit everyone.

Again this is a PvP suggestion based on the ongoing tests, so if you want to weigh in on how it effects PvP, I would love to hear your thoughts.

but that's the thing, it also affects pvp. right now, i can join in on a siege, or a point defense/attack and contribute. with your change, I will no longer be able to do so.

to expand. when/if I go into Cyrodil, I go grouped with my SO. but a lot of the time, what we do is look for activity and join in without formally joining in. when we do so now, my heals hit my SO AND other people around. with your change, this sort of informal joining of fights IN Cyrodil (or IC for that matter, because I have joined several fights in such an informal way during this event) - is no longer going to be possible.

moreover. pvp groups tend to be oftentimes larger then pve groups. limiting them to 3 healers and adding penalties to further healers -creates a situation where healers are less welcome. you are looking at it from a perspective of a dps. I'm looking at it from a perspective of a healer.

They are already testing this in the last 2 tests. Party size will be limited to 12 so that is 3 healers to every 4 players. They are also testing heals and buffs being limited to a group and it is an idea that has been around for a long time. My idea's only expand on this proposal.

I also believe this could add importance to roles in cyrodill and sole healers are actually pretty rare in my experience. I know 2 I regularly group with and they would become very popular if these group tests become the solution.

Yes there will be sacrifices to how we play today and the ability to just jump in and heal an ally may well be one, with or without my suggestions. Reducing aoe damage in PVP will only make a healer's life easier though.

Its indvidual aoe cooldowns as of this week, I would suggest you give it a try as a DD and see how you feel about combat. Aside from performance, combat feels a lot fairer and encounter more meaningful.

Flaaklypa

I also really like the changes. Ball groups actually kind of dies now. you wont get streaked away when you start to overwhelm the sorcs. We no longer see the endless stream of AoEs and yes, performance is even better.

I do not main a NB, and i am 100% for the changes. makes for something new and fresh in cyrodiil

Linaleah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

there is a reason your opinion is an unpopular one. I personaly very much disagree that its healthier for the game. why? because it takes the choice away from people who enjoy different gameplay style from the one you enjoy. right now - you can play single target builds and I can play AoE builds and we can both enjoy playing. with the change? one of us looses a playstyle their enjoy.

and I'm sorry but your healing suggestions are even worse.

part of the appeal of this game is that formal grouping is NOT required to join a group and contribute. your suggestion would completely remove that. right now, I can join a dragon fight for example on a spur and contribute, by both damage and healing without having to be invited to the group. your suggestion - removes that. it makes it less fun for me, cause now I can no longer randomly help out, or join in. informal nature of this game is removed. moreover - this will make the gap between players even worse, because it will make it near impossible for more average players to get anywhere near competing or completing content.

no. just no.

if single target abilities need buffs here and there, to make them more on par with AoE abilities when it comes to fighting against groups of mobs or what not - cool. but your suggestions will turn away a LOT of players for continuing to play. and that cannot possibly be healthy for the game.

It was a PvP suggestion and as such am I only suggesting grouping and healing should have this effect in a PvP zone. Perhaps I didn't make that clear.

Totally respect your opinion and I love playing my aoe centric builds just as much and in many ways more than my ST builds. What I am saying is it is unhealthy in a PvP environment. Imagine any other PvP game where you have the option between one button that attacks one opponent and another that attacks all of them. At the moment I have a double DW necro that can kill 5 players together just as easily as it can kill one😂

I thought I would hate this test, I am now certain aoe needs drastically reducing in PvP zones. Having to pick and aim at a target has forced people to actually one v one, rather than running in their group spamming an aoe and hoping to hit everyone.

Again this is a PvP suggestion based on the ongoing tests, so if you want to weigh in on how it effects PvP, I would love to hear your thoughts.

but that's the thing, it also affects pvp. right now, i can join in on a siege, or a point defense/attack and contribute. with your change, I will no longer be able to do so.

to expand. when/if I go into Cyrodil, I go grouped with my SO. but a lot of the time, what we do is look for activity and join in without formally joining in. when we do so now, my heals hit my SO AND other people around. with your change, this sort of informal joining of fights IN Cyrodil (or IC for that matter, because I have joined several fights in such an informal way during this event) - is no longer going to be possible.

moreover. pvp groups tend to be oftentimes larger then pve groups. limiting them to 3 healers and adding penalties to further healers -creates a situation where healers are less welcome. you are looking at it from a perspective of a dps. I'm looking at it from a perspective of a healer.

They are already testing this in the last 2 tests. Party size will be limited to 12 so that is 3 healers to every 4 players. They are also testing heals and buffs being limited to a group and it is an idea that has been around for a long time. My idea's only expand on this proposal.

I also believe this could add importance to roles in cyrodill and sole healers are actually pretty rare in my experience. I know 2 I regularly group with and they would become very popular if these group tests become the solution.

Yes there will be sacrifices to how we play today and the ability to just jump in and heal an ally may well be one, with or without my suggestions. Reducing aoe damage in PVP will only make a healer's life easier though.

Its indvidual aoe cooldowns as of this week, I would suggest you give it a try as a DD and see how you feel about combat. Aside from performance, combat feels a lot fairer and encounter more meaningful.

I don't play a pure dps and never have. i play a healer. so this is literally killing whatever is left of pvp i personaly engage in. (I used to also play BG with my SO, but then they made them solo queue only, so THAT's gone until at some point they will apparently bring group queue back in some form)

there is a larger picture here. and i reiterate. i'm not merely talking about formal groups. i'm talking about informal grouping where you can join into the fight without having to be invited INTO the group. that playstyle will also be getting destroyed with proposed changes especially to healing.

but even when i do play as dps? I prefer AoE playstyle. always have. you find meaning in different things. i do NOT enjoy pure single target. especially in a game like ESo that does not have sticky targeting of old school MMO's. as I have said - this will wider the gap between players even further. and that is NOT healthy in a game that already has one of the largest skill gaps in the industry.

TequilaFire

Don't worry when whatever changes become permanent the groups will adjust for.

relentless_turnip

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

WARchief10K wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Performance is better because there are only three people in cyrodiil.
These changes are awful.
You have some skills that share a CD and others that you get locked out of when you really need them.

They aren't changes, they are tests. After a skill audit far less aoe would be great for overall combat engagement imo. What I'm saying is combat feels better when people are mostly using single target attacks. Obviously right now any skills doing a radius check lock you out. I myself could only make 2 of my characters playable. The others can't even cycle their buffs.

Make something single target and try it is my advice 👍

combat feels better.. to YOU. it feels worse to me. I enjoy being able to AoE. I do NOT enjoy being forced into single target.

Cool👍

I mean Lin has a point, just because you worked around it doesn't mean it's good. It's your personal opinion. Some characters also are locked into majority of their skills being aoe, like necromancers.

Unless the company comes back and gives single target versions of things, I dunno how you can be fine and enjoying less aoe's, but then also in the same breath say it should be PVP only.

If this was such a great change, why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well? Could it be because it isn't?

I agree Lin does have point, regarding PVE which is why it is a PVP focused suggestion.

I am suggesting skills act differently in PVP, blastbones and shalks due to their nature would have to remain aoe and are already controlled by a delay of 3 secs. skills like jabs could very easily become single target in a PVP environment.
AOE stuns could have a cooldown as they shouldn't be spammed anyway. This is why i am suggesting a skill audit.

Saying why wouldn't PVE benefit from it as well, is in my opinion a redundant question. We know these are completely different environments. PVP scenarios in most games are nearly always single target focused, PVE being able to burn down droves of meaningless mobs empowers the player and is fun. In PVP it is fun too, but firstly it is totally detrimental to performance and secondly creates an unhealthy environment where everyone balls together and spam aoe's without actually aiming at any one.

I think we may also be engaging in different types of pvp. even in Cyrodil. because its not all about single target. when you are sieging a castle - its often about larger groups AND AoE.

Yes it is, I mainly smallscale with a group, but we do frequently take keeps and defend them. Siege is the most important component in taking and defending a keep. Outside of siege, AOE spamming isn't at all necessary imo. Floor aoe's and stuns can be... There is no reason why these types of AOE's couldnt have cooldowns though, as they were never intended to be spammed or should be.

There are plenty of AOE's that can't be spammed and thus already controlled, things like streak with its ramping cost or shalks with its 3 sec delay. Things like jabs or steel tornado need to be controlled to reduce the ability to spam. Jabs could be single target and its cost reduced. Steel tornado could have a ramping cost and whirling blades be made single target with a cost reduction.

relentless_turnip

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

there is a reason your opinion is an unpopular one. I personaly very much disagree that its healthier for the game. why? because it takes the choice away from people who enjoy different gameplay style from the one you enjoy. right now - you can play single target builds and I can play AoE builds and we can both enjoy playing. with the change? one of us looses a playstyle their enjoy.

and I'm sorry but your healing suggestions are even worse.

part of the appeal of this game is that formal grouping is NOT required to join a group and contribute. your suggestion would completely remove that. right now, I can join a dragon fight for example on a spur and contribute, by both damage and healing without having to be invited to the group. your suggestion - removes that. it makes it less fun for me, cause now I can no longer randomly help out, or join in. informal nature of this game is removed. moreover - this will make the gap between players even worse, because it will make it near impossible for more average players to get anywhere near competing or completing content.

no. just no.

if single target abilities need buffs here and there, to make them more on par with AoE abilities when it comes to fighting against groups of mobs or what not - cool. but your suggestions will turn away a LOT of players for continuing to play. and that cannot possibly be healthy for the game.

It was a PvP suggestion and as such am I only suggesting grouping and healing should have this effect in a PvP zone. Perhaps I didn't make that clear.

Totally respect your opinion and I love playing my aoe centric builds just as much and in many ways more than my ST builds. What I am saying is it is unhealthy in a PvP environment. Imagine any other PvP game where you have the option between one button that attacks one opponent and another that attacks all of them. At the moment I have a double DW necro that can kill 5 players together just as easily as it can kill one😂

I thought I would hate this test, I am now certain aoe needs drastically reducing in PvP zones. Having to pick and aim at a target has forced people to actually one v one, rather than running in their group spamming an aoe and hoping to hit everyone.

Again this is a PvP suggestion based on the ongoing tests, so if you want to weigh in on how it effects PvP, I would love to hear your thoughts.

but that's the thing, it also affects pvp. right now, i can join in on a siege, or a point defense/attack and contribute. with your change, I will no longer be able to do so.

to expand. when/if I go into Cyrodil, I go grouped with my SO. but a lot of the time, what we do is look for activity and join in without formally joining in. when we do so now, my heals hit my SO AND other people around. with your change, this sort of informal joining of fights IN Cyrodil (or IC for that matter, because I have joined several fights in such an informal way during this event) - is no longer going to be possible.

moreover. pvp groups tend to be oftentimes larger then pve groups. limiting them to 3 healers and adding penalties to further healers -creates a situation where healers are less welcome. you are looking at it from a perspective of a dps. I'm looking at it from a perspective of a healer.

They are already testing this in the last 2 tests. Party size will be limited to 12 so that is 3 healers to every 4 players. They are also testing heals and buffs being limited to a group and it is an idea that has been around for a long time. My idea's only expand on this proposal.

I also believe this could add importance to roles in cyrodill and sole healers are actually pretty rare in my experience. I know 2 I regularly group with and they would become very popular if these group tests become the solution.

Yes there will be sacrifices to how we play today and the ability to just jump in and heal an ally may well be one, with or without my suggestions. Reducing aoe damage in PVP will only make a healer's life easier though.

Its indvidual aoe cooldowns as of this week, I would suggest you give it a try as a DD and see how you feel about combat. Aside from performance, combat feels a lot fairer and encounter more meaningful.

I don't play a pure dps and never have. i play a healer. so this is literally killing whatever is left of pvp i personaly engage in. (I used to also play BG with my SO, but then they made them solo queue only, so THAT's gone until at some point they will apparently bring group queue back in some form)

there is a larger picture here. and i reiterate. i'm not merely talking about formal groups. i'm talking about informal grouping where you can join into the fight without having to be invited INTO the group. that playstyle will also be getting destroyed with proposed changes especially to healing.

but even when i do play as dps? I prefer AoE playstyle. always have. you find meaning in different things. i do NOT enjoy pure single target. especially in a game like ESo that does not have sticky targeting of old school MMO's. as I have said - this will wider the gap between players even further. and that is NOT healthy in a game that already has one of the largest skill gaps in the industry.

I totally respect your opinion, I will not continue to push mine.

Thanks for weighing in

BalticBlues

If you like less AoE, I suggest playing Overwatch. Overwatch is a PvP masterpiece with great classes, speedy fights and almost perfect balance. However, I play ESO much more, because it is as a more complex game with more interesting tactics. If ZOS will dumb down PvP by getting rid of AoE, I probably will leave PvP and only play PvE in ESO, because for faster and simpler single-target-fights, Overwatch wins by a mile.

Swordancer

Lags are the same but I feel I have more control over the battlefield with longer AoE cooldown and I want that change to stay. Cyro is still broken in my opinion. Anyway there is no fair play with these casual lags and abilities stuck problem. I still feel that PvP in this game is beyond saving and they actually have no idea what they doing.

It's like they doing these changes just to make an impresion that something is going on, that they really care. The problem is that it's just another failure. I mean I like that they trying to fix it but I think there is now way to do that without redesigning large part of the game or atleast without pushing much more money to the servers.

Vetixio

Performance is going to be better because Cyrodiil atm is just filled with Nightblades all trying to gank each other. All Magicka classes (Magblade less so) are affected by these AoE changes, way more than Stamina classes the only Stam classes really affected are Stamplar and Stamsorc. Stamina already outclasses Magicka in PvP and PvE and this just makes it worse.

Gorreck

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

Nightblades basically suffer very little from AoE cds in PvP (even my tank/brawler build one).

However Stamplars and melee Magplars are basically COMPLETELY DESTROYED in PvP by AoE cds.


They would need to rebuild some classes from the ground up for AoE cds to be a solution to anything.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

[Imagine any other PvP game where you have the option between one button that attacks one opponent and another that attacks all of them. At the moment I have a double DW necro that can kill 5 players together just as easily as it can kill one😂

I've played several MMORPG where they managed to balance AoE just fine, even in ESO the balance of AoE is ok, it is just ball-groups that are the issue. And ball-groups are a very specific issue of ESO balance failing, NOT the inevitable result of AoE and PvP in an MMORPG.