I like less AOE( an opinion formed by the cyrodill tests)

dcam86b14_ESO

That's a cool view to have but this isn't a single player RPG.
I don't play MMOs to be a dps, I play a useful role by healing. Not a pseudo healer a pure, save your butt from stupid, healer.

This has completely ruined pvp for me. I've been playing since beta and this test is by far worse than any lag I've experienced.

Again, if single target is your thing cool but AoE should be my thing as well, bc they promote play how you like.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I have always played PVP as primarily single target. I like large scale battles, Identifying a juicy target and exploding them. Haha. In small scale, well, you dont win small scale with AOE most of the time. You win by taking out high priority targets (healers) and turning the tables.

I did not find the changes all that difficult to manage, but I really only played on sorc and NB, both classes that are generally going to do okay in this type of test. I tried to make minimal adjustments to my builds, as to actually help the test.

People should probably calm down. This is not going to make it into PVE, so stop worrying.

I think in PVP, some form of these changes will make it to live, and I am okay with it. A reliable three second cooldown on a handful of skills is way better than the current state of things, which is that 100% of skills are unreliable to cast. In many ways, it actually adds an element of skill because its something that needs managed. My guess is the biggest offenders to server calcs arent even damage skills. It's things like purge and rapid spams in groups (rapids probably isnt as big of a problem these days).

I think we are going to see more skills with an obvious PVP and PVE morph, also cool with me. I think the biggest obstacle will be how to make group healing an enjoyable and rewarding task.

Gorreck

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

A reliable three second cooldown on a handful of skills is way better than the current state of things, which is that 100% of skills are unreliable to cast.

It totally kills my Stamplar (and melee Magplar) and if I just go single target with them, then I'm better off using ANY other class instead.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

My guess is the biggest offenders to server calcs arent even damage skills. It's things like purge and rapid spams in groups (rapids probably isnt as big of a problem these days).

Given that when they broke grouping in Cyrodill accidentally and it largely stopped this (rather than DPS AoE spam) I suspect that is correct.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Gorreck wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

A reliable three second cooldown on a handful of skills is way better than the current state of things, which is that 100% of skills are unreliable to cast.

It totally kills my Stamplar (and melee Magplar) and if I just go single target with them, then I'm better off using ANY other class instead.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

My guess is the biggest offenders to server calcs arent even damage skills. It's things like purge and rapid spams in groups (rapids probably isnt as big of a problem these days).

Given that when they broke grouping in Cyrodill accidentally and it largely stopped this (rather than DPS AoE spam) I suspect that is correct.

Yes, but the notion that casting one AOE is going to blackout all AOEs as was the case last week is likely not going to make it to live. They begin with the most restrictive version of the test, and no secret, some classes had a much bigger issue than others. Templar would certainly have been awful, no denying that. They were also overly broad on the skills affected. I mean sorc shield was hit with the "AOE Tag". The list of effected skills is certainly going to get smaller.

Reverb

Those saying you like it better with AOE cool down, please post your build spec. How many who aren’t stam dps are in favor of this?

Girl_Number8

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Spamming AoEs is mindless. ST abilities require you to actually aim. I think combat would be a lot more interesting if it was primarily ST abilities.

Kudos on having an unpopular opinion.

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i do agree that the game is too aoe centric and cc is too weak for the most part that its useless. If there is a shift to single target for many abilities i would like to see a similar shift in improving (single target) crowd control as well.

Maybe maybe ST CCs unbreakable for at least 1 second? As long as the CC is dodgeable and blockable to begin with.

Would you still hold this opinion if you wouldn‘t main a stamblade, the class that arguably profits the most from these proposed changes?

Oh these changes are terrible for non-stamblades, but I play stamblade because I enjoy a ST focused play style. My interests determined my class; not the other way around. If I found AoEs to be exhilarating then my suggestions would be a huge turn off.

I play a lot of aoe classes and builds. My opinion is right now that single target focussed gameplay is a much healthier direction for this game. I am currently mainly playing a stamsorc or my magdk during this last week of tests. fighting people who are forced to use single targets abilities feels a lot more engaging imo.

I believe in PvP at least skills should function as a single target ability.

It’s not healthier in anyway but a cheap way to deal with the servers than actually fixing that situation.

The tests have shown broken game play. Made even more broken because they still haven’t fixed bugs that have been around for YEARS. Instead we have been given more bugs, like gap closers not working and you can bypass the cool down anyway.

I completely disagree with the OP but if they do this then PVE needs it as well to help the poor performance.


The real issue is they DONT want to SPEND money on US or reallocate the necessary resources needed! They are taking the easy way, the cheap way because it’s easier than giving us something worth the EFFORT.

relentless_turnip

Reverb wrote: »

Those saying you like it better with AOE cool down, please post your build spec. How many who aren’t stam dps are in favor of this?

I think that's fair this week's I have only played magdk and stamsorc as if couldn't get passed my buffs on the others 😂

Magdk:https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=272251

Stamden: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=266043

Stamcro: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=257189

Stamsorc: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=273776

Warden was the hardest to get off the back bar and Stamcro too.

The other 2 are fine, but have to time aoe's well with stamsorc.

Hexquisite

I think that if the game had started out Single target, it could be cool.

BUT as a mostly small scaler, I know how Cyro works...even if people have only single targets 20 of them will chase you down, and the only way to survive this is to LOS and be able to cast some skills that are AOE without a timer, and hope that half of them get bored and turn around, and then kill what is left. It is ingrained in people to zerg small groups down, or just individual players, and this won't change. They will just group up even more.

Todays test is not as bad as last weeks test.

However, when groups were broken in Cyro, there wasn't any lag. It is the Ball groups...you can feel them get near you on a map, watch the frames drop.

mb10

Yeah 40 v 40 Zerg with everyone 1 on 1ing each other with single target abilities. Sounds about right

Mayrael

AoEs cool downs would cause many drastic changes:
1. Roll dodge becomes OP. The only real counters to roll dodge are AoEs and channel abilities. While everyone have access to AoEs, there is very few channeled abilities especially the ones worth using.
2. Healing on most magicka classes is based on AoE skills, or like resto staff "smart" healing, while stamina has at least 2 worth mentioning skills that are single target and really strong. Let me tell you how using rapid regen now looks like. I cast a skill, it goes to some random target, I need to wait 3s, I cast it again, it goes to other target, need to wait 3s, cast it again it goes to first target because it wore down on him... Yeah awesome.
3. Cloak becomes OP. Right now even fart of a mosquito can break cloak, and you can do it on demand. Imagine you can cast AoEs every 3s, cloak has no cool down.
4. Ball groups even stronger. You need at least 6 healers and 6 DDs. 3 healers cast purge on cool down with around 1s delay this way they can cast purge every second. 3 healers cast aoe heals in the same manner. All use aoe healing proc sets. Damage dealers can spam their skills however they want. Most of us switches to single target skills because these are more effective, due to that killing anyone in ballgroup becomes impossible because of LoS, thight formation and constant movement.
5. Cool downs in ESO combat have no place. THIS GAME WAS ADVERDISED AND DEVELOPED AS A GAME WITHOUT COOL DOWNS, LIMITED BY REAOURCES NOT ARTIFICIAL BARRIERS JUST LIKE IN OTHER MMOS, THIS IS NOT THE GAME WE SUBSCRIBED TO. Like cool downs? Go play 1000 other MMOs.

Edit:
Typos

Nestor

I am all for making what changes need to be made to make PvP better. But, the first thing that needs to happen is a split of PvP skills from PvE. Mayve this testing will finally push the devs to make that change.

Mayrael

The best time after 1.6 and lighting patch was when we had siege weapon bug. That one bug caused all groups to spread. Even ball groups died back then and game was running almost lagless. Bring back the siege weapon bug! It's casual friendly, it's simple and effective, it's already tested, it doesn't require game rebalancing from the scratch, it's easy to adjust, it makes sieges more interesting, it encourages spreading out.

Swomp23

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My suggestion to the developers is to make as many skills as possible single target. Particularly damage skills.

How about no, unless it's done through battlespirit or as separate PvP-exclusive 3rd morphs.

Doing such a thing in PvE would make most group content super tedious if there were no or very few AoE damaging abilities, to say nothing of AoE heals.
At the very best it would kill off build diversity as there would be little to choose from.

How about when your morph reaches stage 4, you get an option to choose if it stays aoe or becomes single target, with maybe a very small dmg increase? So classes like templars that rely on aoe spammable dont get completly screwed.

Swomp23

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

Please remember that trials can be very laggy. As many Youtubers pointed out, if the Cyrodiil tests are conclusive, they may very well implement those cooldowns to pve. If you get cooldowns on your aoe heals, you might prefer a morph, or an option, to make some of your skills single taget.

Sanctum74

I agree with op in that switching to single target would definitely make the game more skillful and better combat, but my only issue is with classes like templar or warden who the majority of their skills and buffs are aoe.

You also have to consider healers. Do we go to single target heals/buffs which would be devastating to the role or let them be the only exception?

Ultimately I don’t think any of these changes will affect performance since it used to work better with a much higher population, but it could improve combat.

Iselin

I'm kind of neutral on more AOE / less AOE but ESO combat is defined by instant casting with no cool downs, using resource management instead. That's what I originally liked about the game and still do - especially after doing the two-week preview of New World and finding their cool downs extra annoying.

Why isn't anyone looking at animation canceling with full effect of what was canceled as a problem? That's the elephant in the performance room.

I have nothing against cancelling per se - I like it a lot in combat with active defenses as a matter of fact because it makes the game and your control of your character feel responsive like action combat should. But the way it's implemented in ESO with no penalty to the cancelled skills encourages many more key presses and the resulting resolution of those actions by the server.

That has got to create more bottlenecks than an implementation that doesn't encourage faux canceling for extra DPS by also canceling the effect of the skill whose animation was canceled.

Just my humble opinion.

TineaCruris

Mayrael wrote: »

The best time after 1.6 and lighting patch was when we had siege weapon bug. That one bug caused all groups to spread. Even ball groups died back then and game was running almost lagless. Bring back the siege weapon bug! It's casual friendly, it's simple and effective, it's already tested, it doesn't require game rebalancing from the scratch, it's easy to adjust, it makes sieges more interesting, it encourages spreading out.

Rollback to 1.6 would be a great solution IMO. ...if we are going to dream, dream big I guess. But, it is fact that cyrodiil populations were at least double, and I think triple back then, and performance was great. It was amazing. All of us that complain all the time just want that game back. We've seen how good it can be.

relentless_turnip

Probably still an unpopular opinion, but I am enjoying this week's tests.

I haven't really had any issues performance wise and I enjoyed fighting with just single target abilities, it also makes things much easier defensively.

I am still very much against cooldowns being implemented as a solution, but hope they instead perform a skill audit and reduce radius checks to the same net effect as the current shared cooldown test.

I mainly play solo or smallscale so it is worth keeping that in mind in terms of how my bias is formed.
Just for further context, this is the build I adapted for this test.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=273776

zaria

Swomp23 wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My interest is from a PvE perspective only.

No AoE when it comes to damage is simply tedious. I get that some folks prefer single target but that is not reason to eliminate a legitimate playstyle based on AoE that many find fun.

No heals outside group would be a game-quitting move for me. Most of my healing is done ungrouped (WBs, Harrowstorms, Dragons, even public dungeons). Sure I do grouped healing but will not even slot gear or spells that do not help nearby ungrouped allies (no Earthgore, Winter's Respite, Barrier) for example.

Should the PvP community want such proposed changes, I might suggest considering using battle spirit to enact what PvPers might want without inflicting it upon PvEers.

Please remember that trials can be very laggy. As many Youtubers pointed out, if the Cyrodiil tests are conclusive, they may very well implement those cooldowns to pve. If you get cooldowns on your aoe heals, you might prefer a morph, or an option, to make some of your skills single taget.

Trials can be laggy if they 1) are put in an server who is already overloaded, this is an bug who was more common recently as the load balancing wanted to run to many trials on the same server running the craglorn overland zones I think.
2) its an client issue, its well know that consoles has issues in vMoL and its on the huge trash fight not last boss.

Cooldown on AoE will make trial healing an nightmare, you might end up like in Cyrodil that many magic users backbar resto staff and use mutagen. It will make any any content with lots of trash horrible, Keeper Indril in BC2 will be and hard dps check in pugs, how about darkshade