Crystal Frag Changes: Results

Pyatra

I have done extensive testing on the PTS to determine the viability for the new Crystal Frags as a spammable. With a heavy heart I must inform you that this is probably a "no go", unless you are super hard up for a skill slot on your front bar (run Medusa, you'll lose less DPS than choosing C.Frags to open a skill slot). Sustain is a small amount better than Elemental weapon but damage is a 3.5-5k DPS loss depending on rotation.

This assumes that you are using C.Frag proc when it comes up for both spammables. I even slotted Bound Armor on front bar for additional Magicka and the 2% spell damage bonus when running C.Frags a a spammable. but it still fell woefully short. Due to the nature of Elemental Weapon, its passives, and the status effects it causes, it is the clear winner. Due to them both being direct Magicka damage abilities there are no buffs I can work out that would affect one more than the other to give Crystal Frag the lead.

Attributing factors in actual combat scenario:
Cast time of Frags - small loss, in some cases evens out with Elemental Weapon without passives (Depends on weaving proficiency).
Elemental Weapon passive Spell orb - pulls the dps ahead even more.

Dummy Punching:
Cast time of Frags - same as above
Spell Orb passive for E.Wep - same as above
Concussion, Chill, and burning additional uptime. - minimal DPS increase... but it's still an increase.


Other Considerations:
When you block with E.Wep on your bar you get a free shield.

Potential Solutions:
I don't care. Let ZOS figure it out. Maybe this is a "For PVP" change? It definitely doesn't seem to be for PVE. It seems that nothing changes from Meta (for non vamps), so at least no one should be upset or up in arms about it because it equates to non-change changes and ultimately for PVE it can be ignored whether the magicka morph changes go through or not. I would like the PVPers take on this as it may have a specific purpose for PVP.

Firstmep

Pyatra wrote: »

I have done extensive testing on the PTS to determine the viability for the new Crystal Frags as a spammable. With a heavy heart I must inform you that this is probably a "no go", unless you are super hard up for a skill slot on your front bar (run Medusa, you'll lose less DPS than choosing C.Frags to open a skill slot). Sustain is a small amount better than Elemental weapon but damage is a 3.5-5k DPS loss depending on rotation.

This assumes that you are using C.Frag proc when it comes up for both spammables. I even slotted Bound Armor on front bar for additional Magicka and the 2% spell damage bonus when running C.Frags a a spammable. but it still fell woefully short. Due to the nature of Elemental Weapon, its passives, and the status effects it causes, it is the clear winner. Due to them both being direct Magicka damage abilities there are no buffs I can work out that would affect one more than the other to give Crystal Frag the lead.

Attributing factors in actual combat scenario:
Cast time of Frags - small loss, in some cases evens out with Elemental Weapon without passives (Depends on weaving proficiency).
Elemental Weapon passive Spell orb - pulls the dps ahead even more.

Dummy Punching:
Cast time of Frags - same as above
Spell Orb passive for E.Wep - same as above
Concussion, Chill, and burning additional uptime. - minimal DPS increase... but it's still an increase.


Other Considerations:
When you block with E.Wep on your bar you get a free shield.

Potential Solutions:
I don't care. Let ZOS figure it out. Maybe this is a "For PVP" change? It definitely doesn't seem to be for PVE. It seems that nothing changes from Meta (for non vamps), so at least no one should be upset or up in arms about it because it equates to non-change changes and ultimately for PVE it can be ignored whether the magicka morph changes go through or not. I would like the PVPers take on this as it may have a specific purpose for PVP.

The same way Dark Flare wont become a templar spammable beacuse of the cast time, Cfrags will never become a spammable either.
Zos just doesnt understand that people dont want to use cast time skills for their spammables, and the drawbacks they bring in pvp and pve alike.

Pyatra

I should have results using the execute in a couple hours. I ran full bloodthirsty on the other tests so there should be no wild cards and I am only comparing damage from affected skills/damage sources to account for any user error. Wish me luck as the sorc execute needs to perform surpringly well to compensate for hard cast C.frags. Minor prophecy will be at 100% uptime for all my tests.

Tannus15

@Pyatra I can save you the hassle, Frags as a spammable is weak. I tested it with execute and it's still not worth.

The sustain is great, but the damage is lackluster, FP or ele weapon are both stronger.

frags

crushing shock as spammable. same build.

Pyatra

Tannus15 wrote: »

@Pyatra I can save you the hassle, Frags as a spammable is weak. I tested it with execute and it's still not worth.

The sustain is great, but the damage is lackluster, FP or ele weapon are both stronger.

frags

crushing shock as spammable. same build.

Too late. Punched a dummy until I got an actual headache.
You are correct, the execute even running 3x bloodthirsty falls pretty short.
I even switched it up and tried to run orbs as the extra DOT out of desperation... still such a large difference.
I REALLY wanted this to work somehow.
Only sadness lives here now.

MashmalloMan

I'm starting to think the the Crystal Frag/Crystal Weapon changes were done with half the story in mind. They made one thing clear this patch, they wanted to address some more relevant class issues with plans to completely address everything in depth on a future patch.

Just words.. I know. I've been waiting for 2-3 years for class identity on stam sorc so my hopes aren't exceedingly high, but there is room for improvement that most can agree on and they've at least acknowledged this patch is not the end all be all for class identity. This should just be scratching the surface.

But in both scenario's, both morphs, they fall behind Weapon Spammables and in this case, Ele Weapon because they have no additional damage interaction beyond the direct damage through any class passives.

Which leads me to my conclusion for a fix someone in the combat feedback thread suggested that I completely agree with. Simply adding some sort of additional damage to the Blood Magic passive would start to bring both Spammables in line with other options in the game while making the whole skill line feel more cohesive.

What if the 10% health returned on direct damage also applied 10% of your health as damage to them. The small proc damage would be enough to bring things in line.

Anyway, 1 can hope thats the case.. a simple passive change would fix the dps problem. The cast time issue didn't bother me too much, but I'm use to it because of Wrecking Blow/Dizzy Swing, the fact that it's ranged makes it even easier. Cast times will always suck for most players so thats hit or miss in the end. It may seem like a non issue to ZOS as long as the spammable is comparable to others in the game and from your tests and others, it seems like it's behind..

Remember, enchants don't proc quite as often too because it's only relying on weaving instead of the weapon spammable as well which accounts for some of the uptime. Sets with a proc chance on damage done also proc less frequently like Selene's since Crystal Frag/Weapon is only 1 instance of damage.

These are factors ZOS maybe didn't consider, so on paper the skill is comparable to existing ones, but falls behind in actual practice, for both morphs.

I will say 1 thing. The fact that they landed on -10% cost for 3s is just plain stupid. I'll spare you the specific details, but if you look at Sorcs as a whole, they have about 6-8 passives+morphs related to sustain alone (cost/regen), completely unheard of on other classes, some only needing 2-4 sources to complete their kit.

Sounds good, but many of them are undervalued giving the impression of usefulness, in reality only serving to bloat the entire class and morph options with less useful features instead of ones like tanking/healing/damage/cc type effects. -10% cost is NOT something both spammables needed, despite being nice to have, more damage or utility would of served them much better.

Tannus15

It's a huge buff for the casuals who already spam frags, but it's not a serious option for end game.

Without the cast time it might be a consideration, but with it not only is it a dps loss but it's also feels bad to bar swap / pot / synergies.

Kadoin

Told you guys when you wanted a stam frag to be careful what you wish for. Now I will be waiting to say the same exact thing if ZOS ever makes a stam whip

When they change things, something is always lost, and it isn't for the better.

Tannus15

we're discussing the mag morph, frags, not the change to blast @Kadoin

As far as I'm concerned the stam morph is a thousand times better than having a terrible mag morph that no one should be using.

Tannus15

@MashmalloMan Agreed. I'd be fine with the cast time draw back if the frags was actually stronger than ele weapon. Cast time draw back with increased "anything" to compensate.
But the fact that it has a cast time AND it's weaker makes it bad. Just remove the cast time, there is no reason for it.

The cost reduction on stam is very weak since most stam abilities cost less anyway, the % reduction is less helpful over all. I guess it's nice getting that 10% reduction on e-hail as long as you cast it first on the bar swap, but it's just not that good in general.

Also the change to Rebate is another kick in the face to stam sorcs as you only need to hit the clannfear when you need a burst heal and then it's going to give you an "amazing" 300 mag. wooooo.

@Pyatra have you tested the Tormentor activation now that the sorc pets scale off spell damage/max mag properly? I had a basic rule of thumb before that it's not worth using unless you have 40k+ max mag, but I don't know where it stands now.

MashmalloMan

@Tannus15 rebate is a net buff, but an example of a weak passive again.. step in the right direction, but weak because the class is over bloated with 6/12 sustain passives, BA has -50% cost, Crystal Weapon has -10% cost, etc.

When I tested Rebate week 1, I got 300 stam return on any cast of the BA daggers between 1-4 thrown out. I believe I got 300 stam return upon the 40s buff ending as the passive states, but not sure if you get 300 stam return upon rebuffing before the duration has ended, I'm willing to bet thats exactly how it works..

I'll test it real quick and update this comment.

Edit: Whether you're refreshing the duration, throwing out 1-4 daggers or the ability just ends naturally, you are returned 300 stamina. Pretty sure this is how it works for all abilities like casting Curse before it's hit the 6/12s expiration, you would be returned 300 magicka, etc. Very nice change. BA ends up being an extremely cost effective skill.. now only if it was actually nice to use in pvp for burst, it would be perfect.

Celestro

Tannus15 wrote: »

@MashmalloMan Agreed. I'd be fine with the cast time draw back if the frags was actually stronger than ele weapon. Cast time draw back with increased "anything" to compensate.
But the fact that it has a cast time AND it's weaker makes it bad. Just remove the cast time, there is no reason for it.

The cost reduction on stam is very weak since most stam abilities cost less anyway, the % reduction is less helpful over all. I guess it's nice getting that 10% reduction on e-hail as long as you cast it first on the bar swap, but it's just not that good in general.

Also the change to Rebate is another kick in the face to stam sorcs as you only need to hit the clannfear when you need a burst heal and then it's going to give you an "amazing" 300 mag. wooooo.

@Pyatra have you tested the Tormentor activation now that the sorc pets scale off spell damage/max mag properly? I had a basic rule of thumb before that it's not worth using unless you have 40k+ max mag, but I don't know where it stands now.

I mean, there is Bound Armaments. Granted that still lends itself towards being a kick in the face admittedly (if it does only essentially grant 7.5 stamina per second as I'm under the impression).

Tannus15

That's not too bad actually. I completely forgot armaments is a daedric skill.
if you're hitting it on point that's 75 stam a second.

Pyatra

If they made C.frags on par with other spammables mag sorc would have the bar space to run their sustain skill. As it is bars are still tight. Medusa plus an actual spammable frag would allow running the sustain skill and we might even feel frisky and run our execute in PvE.

Tannus15

I ditched accelerate / trap a while ago in favour of dark conversion, medusa is a straight up buff for me.

I was really hoping frags as spammable would work out so i could get the execute on the bar, but it's not to be.
I might do it anyway on some fun trial runs just to trigger people.

Mortiis13

What about the constant self heal via passive with crystal as spamable? U trade dmg for sustain and survival and an additional barspace. Atleast on paper it looks good for pug/solo and vet dungeons,not everything must be viable for high end tier pve/pvp. I mean their are 2 options still viable.


For pvp the selfheal from the passiv is meh, but with critsourge proc it could be good, 3k heal when u crit is maybe worth to keep pressure while getting attacked.
Sustain is not an issue I have as sorc in pvp,but u may can swap a sustain glyph for more dmg.
Also the extra barspace, u don't need to sacrifice a monster set for. That would be the main reason for me. Execute /dot / another shield / rapid regeneration. Things I can't use but would like to do.
In a zerg/groupe it could really work, but I'm a bit worried about solo/1vsX situations
Will definitely test it out in pvp.
Do u still get slowed down while casting it on pts, that would kill the viability for 1vsX I think.

zvavi

MashmalloMan wrote: »

rebate is a net buff

For mag non pet sorc (hunting curse) the mag return stays the same (300 per 12 sec vs 1500~ per ult cast)

Pyatra

Mortiis13 wrote: »

What about the constant self heal via passive with crystal as spamable? U trade dmg for sustain and survival and an additional barspace. Atleast on paper it looks good for pug/solo and vet dungeons,not everything must be viable for high end tier pve/pvp. I mean their are 2 options still viable.


For pvp the selfheal from the passiv is meh, but with critsourge proc it could be good, 3k heal when u crit is maybe worth to keep pressure while getting attacked.
Sustain is not an issue I have as sorc in pvp,but u may can swap a sustain glyph for more dmg.
Also the extra barspace, u don't need to sacrifice a monster set for. That would be the main reason for me. Execute /dot / another shield / rapid regeneration. Things I can't use but would like to do.
In a zerg/groupe it could really work, but I'm a bit worried about solo/1vsX situations
Will definitely test it out in pvp.
Do u still get slowed down while casting it on pts, that would kill the viability for 1vsX I think.

Excellent PVP insight. Good question, I will see if the cast time affects movement speed tonight after work (unless someone else can answer sooner). Medusa is definitely a buff (don't nerf it ZOS). I feel they are so close on getting C.frags right, it's like the race car broke down right before the finish line.

blendertoes

@Tannus15 , the final DPS numbers on your parses do not present an accurate comparison of crystal frags versus crushing shock as a spamable. To compare the two, look at the combined value of hard cast crystal frags and mages wrath versus the combined values of crushing shock. This results in 15119 for crystal frags and 11924 for crushing shock. Digging deeper into the numbers, the burning proc on the second parse was 1041 higher, and if we assume that was due to extra procs from crushing shock and add that to the previous value, you get 12965 for the spamables on the second parse. This shows that the combination of crystal frags and mages wrath was roughly 2000 DPS higher.

So why was the second parse so much better? First, your RNG with crystal frag procs and crits was waaayyy better on the second parse resulting in 4000 extra DPS just from that source alone. You also executed your weaving better and hit more LA in a shorter time for 1500 extra DPS. Finally, you also hit more daedric prey which added another 1000 DPS.

Since sorc damage via crystal frag proc is so RNG based, averaging results across more parses will paint a more accurate picture.

TL;DR: Spamables in the first parse actually did more DPS, but crystal frag RNG in the second parse overshadowed that fact.

NocturnalSonata

Thanks OP. Always appreciative of testing, but i do have some thoughts that might run contrary to your finding's. But first i do want to make it clear that FP/ELE weapon will yield better dps on a single target from start to end, and will most likely translate to similar results in a lot of live situations. However:

1 - dont underestimate how invaluable having the ability to slot an execute might be in actual trial situations e.g vAS+2 mini's, VCR+ mini's, vMOL mini's etc...

2 - its not simply one free bar space. If paired with medusa you actually gain 2. 2 more dots or utility skill is huge in a trial. Point i am making is that sorc does now have more build diversity, especially if using pets.

3 - 85k is the baseline i tested without an execute. I actually think this is probably the easiest parse i have ever done with sorc outside the easysorc build.



I suspect with more tweaks, this would be a LOT higher, especially if done by someone more competent than I.

1st TLDR - imo frag spam is 100% feasible even for end game stuff based purely on dummy testing.

Its not all rosy though as imo: being interrupted might be the death rattle here. the same goes for random desyncs. I suspect frags are going to be way more susceptible to them in actual content. this needs to be tested, and if anything, this will be the decider if its worth running such a build or not.

A cast time in itself might not be ideal in a lot of situations. Again basic trial testing needs to be conducted.

Dummy damage, while being a good indication is not entirely translatable to actual trial content. So it may be a case that it looks ok on paper and absolutely stinks in action.

2nd TLDR - proper trial testing required.

In essence, no disagreeing with OP, just saying I dont see it as cut n dry. imo i want to see how it works outside of a dummy before i start making assumptions based on a dummy testing.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Yes I tested it the first couple of weeks of this PTS cycke and it's sadly just another one in the long line of meme spammables. At least they're saving the hassle of "add X class a spammableee!!!" threads.

Shantu

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Thanks OP. Always appreciative of testing, but i do have some thoughts that might run contrary to your finding's. But first i do want to make it clear that FP/ELE weapon will yield better dps on a single target from start to end, and will most likely translate to similar results in a lot of live situations. However:

1 - dont underestimate how invaluable having the ability to slot an execute might be in actual trial situations e.g vAS+2 mini's, VCR+ mini's, vMOL mini's etc...

2 - its not simply one free bar space. If paired with medusa you actually gain 2. 2 more dots or utility skill is huge in a trial. Point i am making is that sorc does now have more build diversity, especially if using pets.

3 - 85k is the baseline i tested without an execute. I actually think this is probably the easiest parse i have ever done with sorc outside the easysorc build.



I suspect with more tweaks, this would be a LOT higher, especially if done by someone more competent than I.

1st TLDR - imo frag spam is 100% feasible even for end game stuff based purely on dummy testing.

Its not all rosy though as imo: being interrupted might be the death rattle here. the same goes for random desyncs. I suspect frags are going to be way more susceptible to them in actual content. this needs to be tested, and if anything, this will be the decider if its worth running such a build or not.

A cast time in itself might not be ideal in a lot of situations. Again basic trial testing needs to be conducted.

Dummy damage, while being a good indication is not entirely translatable to actual trial content. So it may be a case that it looks ok on paper and absolutely stinks in action.

2nd TLDR - proper trial testing required.

In essence, no disagreeing with OP, just saying I dont see it as cut n dry. imo i want to see how it works outside of a dummy before i start making assumptions based on a dummy testing.

Agree. While the OP has an opinion, mine is I'm mot feeling the downside to frags spammable at all. While the channel takes some getting used to in a dynamic rotation, the spammable hits for 30-35k (with crits). Keeping the pets special ability up and the 10% cost reduction of the next skill used within 3 seconds, resolves long standing sustain issues. Being able to use use 2 pets, a spammable, Frags, and an executable (Wrath) is good stuff. I'm parsing 85k on the trial dummy, which is about a 3-4k increase for me. While actual trial use is yet an unknown, apart from pet haters, I don't anticipate issues. So far I'm liking what I see.

zvavi

So why was the second parse so much better? First, your RNG with crystal frag procs and crits was waaayyy better on the second parse resulting in 4000 extra DPS just from that source alone. You also executed your weaving better and hit more LA in a shorter time for 1500 extra DPS. Finally, you also hit more daedric prey which added another 1000 DPS.

Well ye... He will obviously have more frag procs, prey casts, and light attacks weaved if he doesn't use a skill that takes cast time...

the1andonlyskwex

zvavi wrote: »

So why was the second parse so much better? First, your RNG with crystal frag procs and crits was waaayyy better on the second parse resulting in 4000 extra DPS just from that source alone. You also executed your weaving better and hit more LA in a shorter time for 1500 extra DPS. Finally, you also hit more daedric prey which added another 1000 DPS.

Well ye... He will obviously have more frag procs, prey casts, and light attacks weaved if he doesn't use a skill that takes cast time...

With practice you should be able to fit a 0.8 second cast and a light attack into a GCD, just like you could with an instant cast and a light attack.

Pyatra

It was discussed in another thread that with cool down timer it is 1.1 seconds when hard casting 2 back to back. This has to do with the 0.5 window.

blendertoes

Pyatra wrote: »

It was discussed in another thread that with cool down timer it is 1.1 seconds when hard casting 2 back to back. This has to do with the 0.5 window.

In the patch notes, that 0.5 sec delay only applies to the proc, not the hard cast. Has testing indicated this is bugged?

Pyatra

blendertoes wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

It was discussed in another thread that with cool down timer it is 1.1 seconds when hard casting 2 back to back. This has to do with the 0.5 window.

In the patch notes, that 0.5 sec delay only applies to the proc, not the hard cast. Has testing indicated this is bugged?

I thought it was wrapped into both... on live I can get stuck double casting hard frags from a double tap. On pts it seems they fixed that. So they accounted for that weirdness. I still remember seeing someone posting about 1.1 seconds for the weave of 0.8 second abilities. I believe it was a discussion on stamina... they seem to be far more versed on the mechanics of the 0.8 second weave. But either way... maybe as mentioned its a precursor for a passive change? I am going to be optimistic about it for the next patch.

Pyatra

Mortiis13 wrote: »

What about the constant self heal via passive with crystal as spamable? U trade dmg for sustain and survival and an additional barspace. Atleast on paper it looks good for pug/solo and vet dungeons,not everything must be viable for high end tier pve/pvp. I mean their are 2 options still viable.


For pvp the selfheal from the passiv is meh, but with critsourge proc it could be good, 3k heal when u crit is maybe worth to keep pressure while getting attacked.
Sustain is not an issue I have as sorc in pvp,but u may can swap a sustain glyph for more dmg.
Also the extra barspace, u don't need to sacrifice a monster set for. That would be the main reason for me. Execute /dot / another shield / rapid regeneration. Things I can't use but would like to do.
In a zerg/groupe it could really work, but I'm a bit worried about solo/1vsX situations
Will definitely test it out in pvp.
Do u still get slowed down while casting it on pts, that would kill the viability for 1vsX I think.

Yes, there is a slow... it's not as bad as a heavy attack slow... but it could make mechanics a little tight if you get caught in it.

MashmalloMan

Pyatra wrote: »

blendertoes wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

It was discussed in another thread that with cool down timer it is 1.1 seconds when hard casting 2 back to back. This has to do with the 0.5 window.

In the patch notes, that 0.5 sec delay only applies to the proc, not the hard cast. Has testing indicated this is bugged?

I thought it was wrapped into both... on live I can get stuck double casting hard frags from a double tap. On pts it seems they fixed that. So they accounted for that weirdness. I still remember seeing someone posting about 1.1 seconds for the weave of 0.8 second abilities. I believe it was a discussion on stamina... they seem to be far more versed on the mechanics of the 0.8 second weave. But either way... maybe as mentioned its a precursor for a passive change? I am going to be optimistic about it for the next patch.

1.1s is just a good average when you think of human erorr and the 1s GCD. It's practically impossible to actually weave perfectly at a 1s rate although the closer you are, typically the higher your LA per second shows and the more DPS you can juice out. If you max out around 0.95 LA a second, your basically casting a skill every 1.05s. There is a mod to count this on PC.

Cast time skills that are closer to the 1s GCD like Jabs or Frags make it even a litttttle more difficult to hit as close as possible to a 1s rotation since there is obviously less breathing room.

In theory, you can weave a 0.8s ability within the 1 to 1.1s for the above mentioned 1.05s, but in reality, fitting a LA within the remaining 0.2s of the 1s GCD is very tight and you will probably expect closer to a 1.1s to 1.2s average.

I've found the 0.6s cast time on a skill like Flurry actually made weaving easier for me vs instant skills because the end of your skills animation was very predictable helping me queue up my LA effortlessly, especially when using a mod like Srendar to show a cast time UI element on my screen. 0.8s is kinda the break even point where you're starting to feel hard pressed to meet that 1s GCD.

To be clear, it says it right in the notes so I'm not sure what to think. They specify the proc, not the base ability:

Introduced a safety window after activating the special proc to help avoid immediately queueing the base version’s cast right after.

All this means is you won't accidently force a queued up cast timed Frag following an instant frag by accidently spamming the button more than once trying to cast it. Since there is an animation and GCD following an instant frag, the window just allows the system to consider your real intended skill instead of copying your press from the instant frag you just tried to throw out.

Queueing is where you press a button before the animation or GCD of a skill has finished. Queuing actions happens without the players knowledge but helps the flow of combat greatly. It's the reason you don't need to be perfect to LA weave skills, because pressing it slightly before an animation or cast time ends will still follow up with the action you input. If the game required you to be perfect with your button clicks it would be close to unplayable for most players.

0.0s LA
0.1s Flurry + 0.6s cast time
0.5 to 0.69s LA Queued
0.7s Flurry animation ends
0.8s to 0.9s LA Fires Automatically.
1.1s GCD ended, Flurry -->
Etc.

If I queued a LA at 0.2s.. only 100ms after I started my Flurry animation, it probably wouldn't remember I pressed it. I don't know the exact number, but it feels like the game only queues actions if it's within about 200ms which is why I wrote 0.5s to 0.69s.

The fact that they had to build in a safety window is confusing when it seems like every skill already has one, maybe it didn't and you could queue a cast time frags RIGHT after by mistake as I mentioned above, but this isn't something that would effect rotation speed. It just prevents mistakes in queing the wrong skill.

To your comment, IF you pressed a Cast time Frags at 0.8s into its live 1.0s cast time, it would be intended to cast another right when it finished. This is intended and obvious to view because the cast time lines up with the GCD. If you pressed it within 0.1-0.5s of the cast time, it shouldn't normally register because you're queing the action way too early.

Tannus15

@blendertoes I'm not faking a parse here. I've done a bunch of frags parses and i pretty consistently get 84k compared to crushing shock where i get consistently 88k.
You can try and math your way around it as much as you like, but it's doing 5% less damage and comes with further draw backs.

The fact remains that the skill is clunky to use compared to an instant cast time and every parse i've seen with it is lower than a standard spammable.

It's a dps loss to run it.

It does give us some options, especially for things like running 2 pets and an execute, but from a pure dps stand point it's not good.

blendertoes

Tannus15 wrote: »

@blendertoes I'm not faking a parse here. I've done a bunch of frags parses and i pretty consistently get 84k compared to crushing shock where i get consistently 88k.
You can try and math your way around it as much as you like, but it's doing 5% less damage and comes with further draw backs.

The fact remains that the skill is clunky to use compared to an instant cast time and every parse i've seen with it is lower than a standard spammable.

It's a dps loss to run it.

It does give us some options, especially for things like running 2 pets and an execute, but from a pure dps stand point it's not good.

Slow your roll. I was not trying to suggest you were “faking” a parse, just pointing out that RNG plays a big factor in sorc DPS and the two parses you posted don’t prove anything.