I have done extensive testing on the PTS to determine the viability for the new Crystal Frags as a spammable. With a heavy heart I must inform you that this is probably a "no go", unless you are super hard up for a skill slot on your front bar (run Medusa, you'll lose less DPS than choosing C.Frags to open a skill slot). Sustain is a small amount better than Elemental weapon but damage is a 3.5-5k DPS loss depending on rotation.
This assumes that you are using C.Frag proc when it comes up for both spammables. I even slotted Bound Armor on front bar for additional Magicka and the 2% spell damage bonus when running C.Frags a a spammable. but it still fell woefully short. Due to the nature of Elemental Weapon, its passives, and the status effects it causes, it is the clear winner. Due to them both being direct Magicka damage abilities there are no buffs I can work out that would affect one more than the other to give Crystal Frag the lead.
Attributing factors in actual combat scenario:
Cast time of Frags - small loss, in some cases evens out with Elemental Weapon without passives (Depends on weaving proficiency).
Elemental Weapon passive Spell orb - pulls the dps ahead even more.
Dummy Punching:
Cast time of Frags - same as above
Spell Orb passive for E.Wep - same as above
Concussion, Chill, and burning additional uptime. - minimal DPS increase... but it's still an increase.
Other Considerations:
When you block with E.Wep on your bar you get a free shield.
Potential Solutions:
I don't care. Let ZOS figure it out. Maybe this is a "For PVP" change? It definitely doesn't seem to be for PVE. It seems that nothing changes from Meta (for non vamps), so at least no one should be upset or up in arms about it because it equates to non-change changes and ultimately for PVE it can be ignored whether the magicka morph changes go through or not. I would like the PVPers take on this as it may have a specific purpose for PVP.
@Pyatra I can save you the hassle, Frags as a spammable is weak. I tested it with execute and it's still not worth.
The sustain is great, but the damage is lackluster, FP or ele weapon are both stronger.
frags
crushing shock as spammable. same build.
@MashmalloMan Agreed. I'd be fine with the cast time draw back if the frags was actually stronger than ele weapon. Cast time draw back with increased "anything" to compensate.
But the fact that it has a cast time AND it's weaker makes it bad. Just remove the cast time, there is no reason for it.
The cost reduction on stam is very weak since most stam abilities cost less anyway, the % reduction is less helpful over all. I guess it's nice getting that 10% reduction on e-hail as long as you cast it first on the bar swap, but it's just not that good in general.
Also the change to Rebate is another kick in the face to stam sorcs as you only need to hit the clannfear when you need a burst heal and then it's going to give you an "amazing" 300 mag. wooooo.
@Pyatra have you tested the Tormentor activation now that the sorc pets scale off spell damage/max mag properly? I had a basic rule of thumb before that it's not worth using unless you have 40k+ max mag, but I don't know where it stands now.
MashmalloMan wrote: »rebate is a net buff
What about the constant self heal via passive with crystal as spamable? U trade dmg for sustain and survival and an additional barspace. Atleast on paper it looks good for pug/solo and vet dungeons,not everything must be viable for high end tier pve/pvp. I mean their are 2 options still viable.
For pvp the selfheal from the passiv is meh, but with critsourge proc it could be good, 3k heal when u crit is maybe worth to keep pressure while getting attacked.
Sustain is not an issue I have as sorc in pvp,but u may can swap a sustain glyph for more dmg.
Also the extra barspace, u don't need to sacrifice a monster set for. That would be the main reason for me. Execute /dot / another shield / rapid regeneration. Things I can't use but would like to do.
In a zerg/groupe it could really work, but I'm a bit worried about solo/1vsX situations
Will definitely test it out in pvp.
Do u still get slowed down while casting it on pts, that would kill the viability for 1vsX I think.
NocturnalSonata wrote: »Thanks OP. Always appreciative of testing, but i do have some thoughts that might run contrary to your finding's. But first i do want to make it clear that FP/ELE weapon will yield better dps on a single target from start to end, and will most likely translate to similar results in a lot of live situations. However:
1 - dont underestimate how invaluable having the ability to slot an execute might be in actual trial situations e.g vAS+2 mini's, VCR+ mini's, vMOL mini's etc...
2 - its not simply one free bar space. If paired with medusa you actually gain 2. 2 more dots or utility skill is huge in a trial. Point i am making is that sorc does now have more build diversity, especially if using pets.
3 - 85k is the baseline i tested without an execute. I actually think this is probably the easiest parse i have ever done with sorc outside the easysorc build.
I suspect with more tweaks, this would be a LOT higher, especially if done by someone more competent than I.
1st TLDR - imo frag spam is 100% feasible even for end game stuff based purely on dummy testing.
Its not all rosy though as imo: being interrupted might be the death rattle here. the same goes for random desyncs. I suspect frags are going to be way more susceptible to them in actual content. this needs to be tested, and if anything, this will be the decider if its worth running such a build or not.
A cast time in itself might not be ideal in a lot of situations. Again basic trial testing needs to be conducted.
Dummy damage, while being a good indication is not entirely translatable to actual trial content. So it may be a case that it looks ok on paper and absolutely stinks in action.
2nd TLDR - proper trial testing required.
In essence, no disagreeing with OP, just saying I dont see it as cut n dry. imo i want to see how it works outside of a dummy before i start making assumptions based on a dummy testing.
So why was the second parse so much better? First, your RNG with crystal frag procs and crits was waaayyy better on the second parse resulting in 4000 extra DPS just from that source alone. You also executed your weaving better and hit more LA in a shorter time for 1500 extra DPS. Finally, you also hit more daedric prey which added another 1000 DPS.
So why was the second parse so much better? First, your RNG with crystal frag procs and crits was waaayyy better on the second parse resulting in 4000 extra DPS just from that source alone. You also executed your weaving better and hit more LA in a shorter time for 1500 extra DPS. Finally, you also hit more daedric prey which added another 1000 DPS.
Well ye... He will obviously have more frag procs, prey casts, and light attacks weaved if he doesn't use a skill that takes cast time...
blendertoes wrote: »
What about the constant self heal via passive with crystal as spamable? U trade dmg for sustain and survival and an additional barspace. Atleast on paper it looks good for pug/solo and vet dungeons,not everything must be viable for high end tier pve/pvp. I mean their are 2 options still viable.
For pvp the selfheal from the passiv is meh, but with critsourge proc it could be good, 3k heal when u crit is maybe worth to keep pressure while getting attacked.
Sustain is not an issue I have as sorc in pvp,but u may can swap a sustain glyph for more dmg.
Also the extra barspace, u don't need to sacrifice a monster set for. That would be the main reason for me. Execute /dot / another shield / rapid regeneration. Things I can't use but would like to do.
In a zerg/groupe it could really work, but I'm a bit worried about solo/1vsX situations
Will definitely test it out in pvp.
Do u still get slowed down while casting it on pts, that would kill the viability for 1vsX I think.
blendertoes wrote: »
I thought it was wrapped into both... on live I can get stuck double casting hard frags from a double tap. On pts it seems they fixed that. So they accounted for that weirdness. I still remember seeing someone posting about 1.1 seconds for the weave of 0.8 second abilities. I believe it was a discussion on stamina... they seem to be far more versed on the mechanics of the 0.8 second weave. But either way... maybe as mentioned its a precursor for a passive change? I am going to be optimistic about it for the next patch.
Introduced a safety window after activating the special proc to help avoid immediately queueing the base version’s cast right after.
@blendertoes I'm not faking a parse here. I've done a bunch of frags parses and i pretty consistently get 84k compared to crushing shock where i get consistently 88k.
You can try and math your way around it as much as you like, but it's doing 5% less damage and comes with further draw backs.
The fact remains that the skill is clunky to use compared to an instant cast time and every parse i've seen with it is lower than a standard spammable.
It's a dps loss to run it.
It does give us some options, especially for things like running 2 pets and an execute, but from a pure dps stand point it's not good.