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Stamina DKs and Wardens needs buffs

Winstonshead
Winstonshead
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They have lowest DPS atm, and it will be in next patch too.
Give attention to that classes please.
EU: Winstonshead
MD-ESO [RU]
  • auz
    auz
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    #stamwhip
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.
  • oscarovegren
    oscarovegren
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    StamDK has awesome DPS both with maelstrom DW/deadly/relequen in PvE (top stamtier with stamcro) and veno claw/noxious breath (major fracture)/take flight/minor brut + 2H skilline in PvP
    Edited by oscarovegren on August 10, 2020 12:12PM
  • satanio
    satanio
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    StamDK has awesome DPS both with maelstrom DW/deadly/relequen in PvE (top stamtier with stamcro) and veno claw/noxious breath (major fracture)/take flight/minor brut + 2H skilline in PvP

    Would not call it top tier, but it is not as bad as it could be. It has almost decent DPS with that mentioned setup.
    Current public stam parses on Iron Atro so far (esologs)
    DW&Bow
    DW&2H
    2H&Bow
    Bow&Bow

    Current public mag parses on Iron Atro (esologs)
    (non cheese)
    ESOLEAKS CASUALTIES:
    Checkmath
    Tasear
    RIP
  • oscarovegren
    oscarovegren
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    For warden they could make winters revenge scale of the highest offensive stat. That way they will receive a very strong AoE DoT and the chilled crit bonus. That would be a good improvement
  • MonoAlva
    MonoAlva
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    xd?
  • Winstonshead
    Winstonshead
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    For warden they could make winters revenge scale of the highest offensive stat. That way they will receive a very strong AoE DoT and the chilled crit bonus. That would be a good improvement
    sounds good
    EU: Winstonshead
    MD-ESO [RU]
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    In PvE they are by far the weakest, in PvP they are strong but so are many other classes.

    For DK.
    Make stonefist better and not a weird juggling then maybe a stam morph of eruption, a poison cloud, just giving the healing buff to the base skill so it can go three ways.

    This would give an AoE DoT so they do more in PvE without really affecting their strength in PvP.

    Other than that stamdk suffers from poor passives just like magDK, one major example is they should share world of ruin both ways reducing the cost of fire skills and also fire aoe, as well as poison skills and poison AoE.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • Playboy_Shrek
    Playboy_Shrek
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    stamblade is what needs buffs. its pretty bad unless your so good you could parse just as wel with stamdk or warden.

    it literally gets nothing from siphoning tree. very little from the shadow tree and even worse in the main tree. a worse spammable. as its melee and it does the same damage, and less damage from grim focus morph

    at least for dk and warden, both are classes that use "magical" skills. meanwhile nightblade is just using knives. and somehow magblade is better.
  • stevenyaub16_ESO
    stevenyaub16_ESO
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    Stam just need buffs in general. Make caltrops good again make improve bow passives for pve so stams can go bow/bow in certain trials and not always feel like a liability.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    stamblade is what needs buffs. its pretty bad unless your so good you could parse just as wel with stamdk or warden.

    it literally gets nothing from siphoning tree. very little from the shadow tree and even worse in the main tree. a worse spammable. as its melee and it does the same damage, and less damage from grim focus morph

    at least for dk and warden, both are classes that use "magical" skills. meanwhile nightblade is just using knives. and somehow magblade is better.

    Stamblade and Stamplar without necro ult are parsing the highest, they are the only class that got buffed this patch ( PvE perspective, the damage taken reduct. in pvp versus crit damage is a nerf ) and they easily outparse magblade.

    Stamblade also does use magical skills in their rotation, they have shade for example.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • ThePianist
    ThePianist
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    stamblade is what needs buffs. its pretty bad unless your so good you could parse just as wel with stamdk or warden.

    it literally gets nothing from siphoning tree. very little from the shadow tree and even worse in the main tree. a worse spammable. as its melee and it does the same damage, and less damage from grim focus morph

    at least for dk and warden, both are classes that use "magical" skills. meanwhile nightblade is just using knives. and somehow magblade is better.

    Stamblade and Stamplar without necro ult are parsing the highest, they are the only class that got buffed this patch ( PvE perspective, the damage taken reduct. in pvp versus crit damage is a nerf ) and they easily outparse magblade.

    Stamblade also does use magical skills in their rotation, they have shade for example.

    Stamblade needs buff to pve and no cp bgs. Grothdarr is already a cancer monster set in stamdk, stamcro and stamwardens. I’m speaking from a pve and pvp perspective.

    ZOS needs to look at no cp bgs statistics from the pre-50 cp, all the way up to the top ranking MMR’s. They will see that nightblades are at the bottom of the barrel.

    ZOS also needs to look at the statistics of Vet dungeon pugs, and who is getting always kicked. I guarantee you it’s nightblades and bow/bow players. This class doesn’t have any kind of aoe damage to deal with trash mobs, except arrow barrage, caltrops. Again, look at this from a bigger picture ZOS. Not just catering to the elitists.

    How can a NB weave 5 LA’s to proc relentless focus against a warden running 2 proc sets, and hits Northen storm? Then the same warden proceeds to 1vx the other enemy team?

    The relentless focus buff is not a big deal. What should have been done, is give NB’s the pre 7th legion dark cloak. Our class needs a purge of some kind.

    The only place Our Class is excelling at is at imperial city. Yes I love to gank people and steal their hard earned tel var. If they’re on my hit list then: “Remember me? You kicked me from Vet Bloodforge, I’ll take that 20k Tel var as compensation, thanks”.

    But anyway. Stamden doesn’t need a buff.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    ThePianist wrote: »
    stamblade is what needs buffs. its pretty bad unless your so good you could parse just as wel with stamdk or warden.

    it literally gets nothing from siphoning tree. very little from the shadow tree and even worse in the main tree. a worse spammable. as its melee and it does the same damage, and less damage from grim focus morph

    at least for dk and warden, both are classes that use "magical" skills. meanwhile nightblade is just using knives. and somehow magblade is better.

    Stamblade and Stamplar without necro ult are parsing the highest, they are the only class that got buffed this patch ( PvE perspective, the damage taken reduct. in pvp versus crit damage is a nerf ) and they easily outparse magblade.

    Stamblade also does use magical skills in their rotation, they have shade for example.

    Stamblade needs buff to pve and no cp bgs. Grothdarr is already a cancer monster set in stamdk, stamcro and stamwardens. I’m speaking from a pve and pvp perspective.

    ZOS needs to look at no cp bgs statistics from the pre-50 cp, all the way up to the top ranking MMR’s. They will see that nightblades are at the bottom of the barrel.

    ZOS also needs to look at the statistics of Vet dungeon pugs, and who is getting always kicked. I guarantee you it’s nightblades and bow/bow players. This class doesn’t have any kind of aoe damage to deal with trash mobs, except arrow barrage, caltrops. Again, look at this from a bigger picture ZOS. Not just catering to the elitists.

    How can a NB weave 5 LA’s to proc relentless focus against a warden running 2 proc sets, and hits Northen storm? Then the same warden proceeds to 1vx the other enemy team?

    The relentless focus buff is not a big deal. What should have been done, is give NB’s the pre 7th legion dark cloak. Our class needs a purge of some kind.

    The only place Our Class is excelling at is at imperial city. Yes I love to gank people and steal their hard earned tel var. If they’re on my hit list then: “Remember me? You kicked me from Vet Bloodforge, I’ll take that 20k Tel var as compensation, thanks”.

    But anyway. Stamden doesn’t need a buff.

    In PvE Stamden is the weakest Stamina class and StamDK barely outdoes it.

    In PvE Stamblade and Stamplar are the strongest ( not counting stamcro due to major vuln ) and that is an irrefutable, mathematical fact, so saying they need a buff you need to give a reason as to why that is.

    Grothdarr on a stamina PvE is a terrible thing to run.

    I am sorry you got kicked from group, I am always extremely patient and carry people oftentimes even if I'm doing 80%+ DPS, because I started from humble beginnings, I wasn't always great, so I get it.

    Bow/Bow is sorely lacking, but I also hate bows to begin with in ESO so..

    I honestly could care less about BGs since I can no longer play with my SO, but I wish you the best unless it negatively impacts other things.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    [deleted]
    Edited by Jodynn on August 12, 2020 4:31PM
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • Onefrkncrzypope
    Onefrkncrzypope
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.

    Brings a melee skill to a melee class so it can proc axe bleed and selenes better. Might proc poisoned for better sustain. Also it isn't a crap poopfist. Brings alot in my opinion.
    -Immortal Redeemer-
    -Extinguisher of Flames-
    -Gryphon Heart-
    -Potato-



    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....
  • stefj68
    stefj68
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    i play all stam melee dps class, and yes they might be a little behind dps wise but for survability they are both great.... with incoming changes to templar, i feel they will be behind d and they will be worst for survability without ritual of retribution... having to rely on 3 skills for healing istead of 1, loosing 2 dps skills in my rotation

  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.

    Brings a melee skill to a melee class so it can proc axe bleed and selenes better. Might proc poisoned for better sustain. Also it isn't a crap poopfist. Brings alot in my opinion.

    Also would take advantage of the Ardent Flame passive, Warmth! Nothing like applying a Snare to your target when you hit them.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Onefrkncrzypope
    Onefrkncrzypope
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.

    Brings a melee skill to a melee class so it can proc axe bleed and selenes better. Might proc poisoned for better sustain. Also it isn't a crap poopfist. Brings alot in my opinion.

    Also would take advantage of the Ardent Flame passive, Warmth! Nothing like applying a Snare to your target when you hit them.

    Oooo wee
    -Immortal Redeemer-
    -Extinguisher of Flames-
    -Gryphon Heart-
    -Potato-



    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    Based on parses I have been able to find this PTS cycle, it seems like the general metric is;

    Stamcro > Stamblade > Stamplar > Stam Sorc > Stam DK > Stamden

    This is why I said weeks ago the change to Morag Tong is a critically bad one, as it exclusively buffs Stamblade and Stamcro, pushing them even further ahead of the pack. What would be a reasonable change instead (or, really, a group of changes) would be something like this;

    Dragonknight:

    Noxious Breath:
    Increases poison damage taken by 3-10% scaling off offensive stats (Engulfing treatment)

    Not sure wtf to do with stagger.

    Warden:

    Gripping Shards (Alternative morph of Winter's Revenge):
    Scales off highest offensive stat. PB AoE that makes perfect sense.

    Shalks:
    Increases disease damage taken by 3-10%, scaling off offensive stats (Engulfing treatment)
    Converted to Disease damage from Poison (lets DK be the "big poison" DPS)


    Elemental Catalyst:

    Increases critical damage done by 3% per stack for Fire, Ice, Lightning and Magic damage. (Only applied by elements, only affects elements)


    Morag Tong:

    Increases critical damage done by 3% per stack for Bleed, Physical, Poison and Disease damage. (Only applied by each type, only affects Stam damage sources).

    Edited by Skjaldbjorn on August 13, 2020 3:47AM
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    I like those ideas!

    My only quibble is that stamDen seems like a better candidate to buff Bleed-type damage rather than Disease-type damage (that's NB territory thematically) since they are the only class with an in-class Bleed skill(s) available to them and it fits well with the beastmaster archetype.

    I would also stick a Bleed on the Bear either as a % chance to proc on any of its attacks like the Axe effects or as a byproduct of casting the special maul attack.
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    I like those ideas!

    My only quibble is that stamDen seems like a better candidate to buff Bleed-type damage rather than Disease-type damage (that's NB territory thematically) since they are the only class with an in-class Bleed skill(s) available to them and it fits well with the beastmaster archetype.

    I would also stick a Bleed on the Bear either as a % chance to proc on any of its attacks like the Axe effects or as a byproduct of casting the special maul attack.

    @YandereGirlfriend I can agree that Stamblade is a better candidate, but in that case, they'd probably need to lose the Minor Savagery passive. Stamblades already have very good group utility. It also doesn't benefit the meta at large to put the Disease damage buff on a top-2 DPS that can empower eachother. That's the central problem with Tong to start with.
  • ThePedge
    ThePedge
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    I like those ideas!

    My only quibble is that stamDen seems like a better candidate to buff Bleed-type damage rather than Disease-type damage (that's NB territory thematically) since they are the only class with an in-class Bleed skill(s) available to them and it fits well with the beastmaster archetype.

    I would also stick a Bleed on the Bear either as a % chance to proc on any of its attacks like the Axe effects or as a byproduct of casting the special maul attack.

    @YandereGirlfriend I can agree that Stamblade is a better candidate, but in that case, they'd probably need to lose the Minor Savagery passive. Stamblades already have very good group utility. It also doesn't benefit the meta at large to put the Disease damage buff on a top-2 DPS that can empower eachother. That's the central problem with Tong to start with.

    What game are you playing? Stamblades only group utility is Minor Savagery, and barely anyone plays Stamina groups anymore. If they do you use a NB tank and Necro DD instead of NB. But it isn't for DDs to provide utility anyway.

    OT: Stamden has lowest DPS yes, but only 1k lower than StamDK and StamBlade.

    I'd love to see StamBlade get some damage back, the main single-target damage class has one of the lowest single-target damage? Makes sense.
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    What game are you playing? Stamblades only group utility is Minor Savagery, and barely anyone plays Stamina groups anymore. If they do you use a NB tank and Necro DD instead of NB. But it isn't for DDs to provide utility anyway.

    OT: Stamden has lowest DPS yes, but only 1k lower than StamDK and StamBlade.

    I'd love to see StamBlade get some damage back, the main single-target damage class has one of the lowest single-target damage? Makes sense.

    @ThePedge What game are you playing? Stamblade is currently parsing ~92k both live and PTS, even with the hits to Rele and Lokke. Stamden's best I have seen is ~87k. Stamblade is easily 2nd, and in trials will likely be top DPS consistently due to crit scaling from things like Ele Cat, and disease scaling from Tong.

    To put this in perspective, I have mained Stamden since their release at Morrowind. My best parse on this PTS cycle is 86k. I played Stamblade for two weeks previous to this patch. I loathe the class and have almost no experience, and even I can parse 90k on them with a trash setup and no experience.

    As far as group utility coming from tanks, clearly not, as Engulfing was intentionally moved away from supports, as have multiple item sets, being forced toward DPS for sustainability. They continuously hit Ele Cat over this cycle to make it less and less viable for healers.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    stamblade is what needs buffs. its pretty bad unless your so good you could parse just as wel with stamdk or warden.

    it literally gets nothing from siphoning tree. very little from the shadow tree and even worse in the main tree. a worse spammable. as its melee and it does the same damage, and less damage from grim focus morph

    at least for dk and warden, both are classes that use "magical" skills. meanwhile nightblade is just using knives. and somehow magblade is better.

    Stamblade and Stamplar without necro ult are parsing the highest, they are the only class that got buffed this patch ( PvE perspective, the damage taken reduct. in pvp versus crit damage is a nerf ) and they easily outparse magblade.

    Stamblade also does use magical skills in their rotation, they have shade for example.

    Stamplar didn't get anybuff this patch, it's the opposite. It's even one of the most StamDD nerfed
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.

    Brings a melee skill to a melee class so it can proc axe bleed and selenes better. Might proc poisoned for better sustain. Also it isn't a crap poopfist. Brings alot in my opinion.

    If You're fighting in meele and You want to proc axe bleed that means You have acces to meele spammables already in weapon skill lines. Instead of asking for stamwhip You can ask for meele stone giant to get the same result but with less impact on the class. I could agree with poisoned status effect argument if stamwhip would be posion dmg based but even then I consider it a weak argument since it wouldn't be sustain of high magnitude same as flame whip is not giving that much sustain on a mag dk. So as I've said stamwhip brings nothing for a stam dk. Nothing very important atleast.
    Edited by Juhasow on August 13, 2020 8:56PM
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.

    Brings a melee skill to a melee class so it can proc axe bleed and selenes better. Might proc poisoned for better sustain. Also it isn't a crap poopfist. Brings alot in my opinion.

    If You're fighting in meele and You want to proc axe bleed that means You have acces to meele spammables already in weapon skill lines. Instead of asking for stamwhip You can ask for meele stone giant to get the same result but with less impact on the class. I could agree with poisoned status effect argument if stamwhip would be posion dmg based but even then I consider it a weak argument since it wouldn't be sustain of high magnitude same as flame whip is not giving that much sustain on a mag dk. So as I've said stamwhip brings nothing for a stam dk. Nothing very important atleast.

    I remember the days when venomous claw was the spammable for stam DK. Instead of tweaking that idea, they just deleted it
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
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    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • ecru
    ecru
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    Buff Stamdk dots and make the ticks do an equal amount of damage so that you aren't penalized for clipping a dot before it ends and don't have to wait 10 seconds for your dots to start to do any damage, which penalizes stamdk on target switches more than any other class. 14 second dots should not do the same amount of damage as 10 second *aoe* dots from other classes, like Detonating Siphon.
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • Winstonshead
    Winstonshead
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    Koubo wrote: »
    Stamplar didn't get anybuff this patch, it's the opposite. It's even one of the most StamDD nerfed

    It's a joke? Stamplar still in top 3 stam dps.
    EU: Winstonshead
    MD-ESO [RU]
  • ke.sardenb14_ESO
    ke.sardenb14_ESO
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    In my opinion, DK’s need to have their passives looked at, or skills need to change lines. Currently, the primary stamina spammable for DK’s is not touched by a single passive in their main DPS line, ardent flame. Except for mountains blessing, stone giant receives no benefit from earthen heart, and helping hands out right ignores it. What ZOS could do (aside from removing the abysmal cast time) is add something to helping hands that would benefit stamina abilities or allow eternal mountain to extend the duration or giant stacks so that you can weave a weapon spammables in more effectively.
    Outside of changing the spammable, the easiest way to buff stamina DK would be to change the standard ultimate so that its damage type is based on you highest resource (I.e. poison damage for stamina and fire for magic), allowing for the StamDK the get the full benefit of their physical penetration on ultimate.
  • Onefrkncrzypope
    Onefrkncrzypope
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    auz wrote: »
    #stamwhip

    Stamwhip brings nothing for stam dk.

    Brings a melee skill to a melee class so it can proc axe bleed and selenes better. Might proc poisoned for better sustain. Also it isn't a crap poopfist. Brings alot in my opinion.

    If You're fighting in meele and You want to proc axe bleed that means You have acces to meele spammables already in weapon skill lines. Instead of asking for stamwhip You can ask for meele stone giant to get the same result but with less impact on the class. I could agree with poisoned status effect argument if stamwhip would be posion dmg based but even then I consider it a weak argument since it wouldn't be sustain of high magnitude same as flame whip is not giving that much sustain on a mag dk. So as I've said stamwhip brings nothing for a stam dk. Nothing very important atleast.

    The problem that everyone forgets with a melee stone giant is that the other morph is ranged. That would mean three unique animations for one skill. These developers are nickel and diming every resource they put in this game. It's not going to happen.

    I am uncomfortable with a class relying on weapons skills. Remember PI? Rending? Nerfs because it's strong for everyone but nerfs classes that rely exclusively on those skills alot harder.
    Edited by Onefrkncrzypope on August 14, 2020 11:21PM
    -Immortal Redeemer-
    -Extinguisher of Flames-
    -Gryphon Heart-
    -Potato-



    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....
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