Updates to Guild Trader Swap Times

Dont_do_drugs

Fiktius wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone!

• 13:55 Tuesday UTC: All bidding and renting from the previous week will stop
• 14:00 Tuesday UTC : Tabard of the selected vendor flips to new owners
• 14:05 Tuesday UTC : All bidding and renting is opened up again for the following week

Okay, so, that planned time you have there is approx 4 PM CET, when actual tabards of traders flip.
That is a time where most people are still working or on a way back to home.
Would it be possible that you consider pushing the time 1-2 hours forwards, so more workers have opportunity to be at home during reset time?
Or is that considered prime time at Tuesday and therefore impossible?

It wont be possible.There is a reason, why ZOS informs u 1,5 week in advance and not 1 month before. And I doubt they will monitor anything. They will just move the swap to a better time for the servers and hope such issues as from some sunday bids in the post can't occure anymore. Some months later everyone will have forgotten about the fact actually not beeing happy about that change, same as that many complaining bout multibid, server issues, guild history and trading addons lockdown and more. Just reminds me: glad i quit beeing active gm.

JN_Slevin

Just to give feedback, while I understand there will always be somebody complaining, I for one would also prefer a time where people who work a normal 9-to-5 job can be present. Pushing it 2 to 3 hours would be better in my opinion.

pluckpluck

SammiSakura wrote: »

I think guilds will just have an extra long week 2.8 - 11.8

Experience proved they're not thinking this way. I fear we "lose" money with two bids on two days interval. Less fair, more in the ZOS way. Like DontDoDrugs said, they could be user-friendly and adapt a time that fits for them AND players (gm of trading guilds at least). Won't be the case, because what you hope isn't what they wish.

(I'd be amazed, Gina, if you could say i'm wrong, but let's be honest, you won't because i'm right, right?)

VaranisArano

Its probably better than having to repeatedly explain "Guys, it's Sunday night in the US of A, the people in charge of fixing this probably aren't going to get called in to fix it til the morning..."

Though it might be even better to address why this keeps happening and fix the root of the problem. But what do I know?

BenevolentBowd

FYI
I have updated my ESO Calendar accordingly.

For our Aussie mates....

10:55pm Sydney, Australia

[EU] Guild Trader Reset
When
Tue, 11 August, 10:55pm – 11:00pm
Description
European (EU) megaserver: Tuesdays - 13:00 UTC, 10am EDT / 9am EST

4:55am

[NA] Guild Trader Reset
When
Wed, 12 August, 4:55am – 5:00am
Description
North American (NA) megaserver: Tuesdays - 19:00 UTC, 3pm EDT / 2pm EST

baratron

There needs to be more than 5 minutes between the time when hired Guild Traders flip, and unhired Guild Traders become available for hire. If you look at the data for PC-NA between Sunday 19th April and Sunday 26th July 2020, the flip has taken 15-18 minutes eleven times during these sixteen weeks. That's more than two-thirds of the time!

I understand that the new Guild Trader flip times have been chosen bearing in mind the peak usage of the NA and EU servers. However, I would assume from the fact that sometimes it all happens on time and other times it doesn't that there's more going on than "too many players on server" error.

Sunday 19th April - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.18 pm EDT.
Sunday 26th April - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.16 pm EDT.
Sunday 4th May - Guild Trader flip happened on time, all done by 9.00 pm EDT.
Sunday 11th May - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.18 pm EDT.
Sunday 18th May - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.18 pm EDT.
Sunday 24th May - Guild Trader flip happened on time, all done by 9.00 pm EDT.
Sunday 31st May - Guild Trader flip was delayed, not sure until when, but definitely past 9.12pm EDT.
Sunday 7th June - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.17 pm EDT.
Sunday 15 June, 22 June, 29 June - Guild Trader flip happened on time
Sunday 5 July - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.17 pm EDT.
Sunday 12th July - Guild Trader flip was delayed until 9.15pm EDT.
Sunday 19th July - Guild Trader flip delayed until 9.18pm EDT.
Sunday 26th July - Guild Trader flip delayed until 9.16pm EDT.
(Apologies if some of these dates are wrong - I'm in the UK bidding for a North American guild.)

Having the ability to Hire a Trader hard-coded at 5 minutes after the Trader flip time completely removes any ability of GMs/Trade Officers to Hire if the switch is slow that week.

SammiSakura

pluckpluck wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

I think guilds will just have an extra long week 2.8 - 11.8

Experience proved they're not thinking this way. I fear we "lose" money with two bids on two days interval. Less fair, more in the ZOS way. Like DontDoDrugs said, they could be user-friendly and adapt a time that fits for them AND players (gm of trading guilds at least). Won't be the case, because what you hope isn't what they wish.

(I'd be amazed, Gina, if you could say i'm wrong, but let's be honest, you won't because i'm right, right?)

I'm not sure my quote has anything to do with what youve said here xD I was replying to Benevolent who I think thought we had Swap on the 9th and the 11th. Which we don't. Its the 3rd and 11th, so we will have a 9 day week 2nd-11th

Bucky_13

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

means people not going to work are in advantage...

You know there are people who work on Sundays too right?

Dont_do_drugs

SammiSakura wrote: »

pluckpluck wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

I think guilds will just have an extra long week 2.8 - 11.8

Experience proved they're not thinking this way. I fear we "lose" money with two bids on two days interval. Less fair, more in the ZOS way. Like DontDoDrugs said, they could be user-friendly and adapt a time that fits for them AND players (gm of trading guilds at least). Won't be the case, because what you hope isn't what they wish.

(I'd be amazed, Gina, if you could say i'm wrong, but let's be honest, you won't because i'm right, right?)

I'm not sure my quote has anything to do with what youve said here xD I was replying to Benevolent who I think thought we had Swap on the 9th and the 11th. Which we don't. Its the 3rd and 11th, so we will have a 9 day week 2nd-11th

how u know?

i DO remember ZOS letting guilds bid on a sunday, then renewing craglorn zone in a monday or tuesday update and putting there empty traders which couldnt be hired by those guilds who actually hired the old craglorn traders. i am sure blobs, lulu, johnny, paulington, peniku and heindrich do remember that as well.

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

means people not going to work are in advantage...

You know there are people who work on Sundays too right?

You do read comments as a whole and do recognize, that i pointed that out as well, right?

SammiSakura

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

pluckpluck wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

I think guilds will just have an extra long week 2.8 - 11.8

Experience proved they're not thinking this way. I fear we "lose" money with two bids on two days interval. Less fair, more in the ZOS way. Like DontDoDrugs said, they could be user-friendly and adapt a time that fits for them AND players (gm of trading guilds at least). Won't be the case, because what you hope isn't what they wish.

(I'd be amazed, Gina, if you could say i'm wrong, but let's be honest, you won't because i'm right, right?)

I'm not sure my quote has anything to do with what youve said here xD I was replying to Benevolent who I think thought we had Swap on the 9th and the 11th. Which we don't. Its the 3rd and 11th, so we will have a 9 day week 2nd-11th

how u know?

i DO remember ZOS letting guilds bid on a sunday, then renewing craglorn zone in a monday or tuesday update and putting there empty traders which couldnt be hired by those guilds who actually hired the old craglorn traders. i am sure blobs, lulu, johnny, paulington, peniku and heindrich do remember that as well.

It literally says in the original post:

Traders will switch over normally on Sunday, August 3rd. Bids that take place after that will go towards a trader that will be awarded on the August 11th swap. That means Guilds will have traders for about 2 extra days following the August 3rd switchover.

:facepalm:

JN_Slevin

Btw @ZOS_GinaBruno May you share at what time the pts traders change tabards?

Nvm, forgot one can just see when the bidding closes.

Dont_do_drugs

SammiSakura wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

pluckpluck wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

I think guilds will just have an extra long week 2.8 - 11.8

Experience proved they're not thinking this way. I fear we "lose" money with two bids on two days interval. Less fair, more in the ZOS way. Like DontDoDrugs said, they could be user-friendly and adapt a time that fits for them AND players (gm of trading guilds at least). Won't be the case, because what you hope isn't what they wish.

(I'd be amazed, Gina, if you could say i'm wrong, but let's be honest, you won't because i'm right, right?)

I'm not sure my quote has anything to do with what youve said here xD I was replying to Benevolent who I think thought we had Swap on the 9th and the 11th. Which we don't. Its the 3rd and 11th, so we will have a 9 day week 2nd-11th

how u know?

i DO remember ZOS letting guilds bid on a sunday, then renewing craglorn zone in a monday or tuesday update and putting there empty traders which couldnt be hired by those guilds who actually hired the old craglorn traders. i am sure blobs, lulu, johnny, paulington, peniku and heindrich do remember that as well.

It literally says in the original post:

Traders will switch over normally on Sunday, August 3rd. Bids that take place after that will go towards a trader that will be awarded on the August 11th swap. That means Guilds will have traders for about 2 extra days following the August 3rd switchover.

:facepalm:

I believe it, when it happened that way :'D:'D :'D

SammiSakura

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I believe it, when it happened that way :'D:'D :'D

It did. But that happened because they changed the zone. For this all they are doing it flipping the traders 2 days later. We arent bidding for sunday and again for tuesday. I'm not saying it won't go haywire, it might. But it still stands that my comment reply to Benevolent was about us having a 9 day week.

Dont_do_drugs

SammiSakura wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I believe it, when it happened that way :'D:'D :'D

It did. But that happened because they changed the zone. For this all they are doing it flipping the traders 2 days later. We arent bidding for sunday and again for tuesday. I'm not saying it won't go haywire, it might. But it still stands that my comment reply to Benevolent was about us having a 9 day week.

Dont get me wrong, i really hope for all gm to work out that way. thing is... i saw a lot of things in eso since 2014...

SammiSakura

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

SammiSakura wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I believe it, when it happened that way :'D:'D :'D

It did. But that happened because they changed the zone. For this all they are doing it flipping the traders 2 days later. We arent bidding for sunday and again for tuesday. I'm not saying it won't go haywire, it might. But it still stands that my comment reply to Benevolent was about us having a 9 day week.

Dont get me wrong, i really hope for all gm to work out that way. thing is... i saw a lot of things in eso since 2014...

I'm pretty sure we all have tbh. But its still irrelevant to what my original comment was :shrug:

Jezzabell

Fiktius wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone!

• 13:55 Tuesday UTC: All bidding and renting from the previous week will stop
• 14:00 Tuesday UTC : Tabard of the selected vendor flips to new owners
• 14:05 Tuesday UTC : All bidding and renting is opened up again for the following week

Okay, so, that planned time you have there is approx 4 PM CET, when actual tabards of traders flip.
That is a time where most people are still working or on a way back to home.
Would it be possible that you consider pushing the time 1-2 hours forwards, so more workers have opportunity to be at home during reset time?
Or is that considered prime time at Tuesday and therefore impossible?

Beginning on August 11th, we’ll be adjusting the date and time that Guild Traders make their weekly swap to coincide with some backend work going into Update 27. These new times will ensure we can fully monitor and react to any issues that may arise when the swap takes place.

Jezzabell

They want to do it while they are still at work

JHartEllis

I'll throw in that if the process continues to be bogged down, raising the minimum bid would also help. 10k just really isn't much for 50+ player guilds, and those are very rarely winning anyway.

Spage

I don't suppose there's any chance of not making this smack in the middle of the majority's work day?

Dear gods, just realised I have to consider moving raffles and auctions around, editing addons to reflect that too. GOOD GOD ZOS. Week-end data pulls and everything are going to be completely borked.

Can this not be fixed without creating carnage for us down here on the ground?

Dont_do_drugs

@ZOS_GinaBruno silly question here. Why is zos thinking, it is necessary to monitor bidding now? I mean, the last major issues occured like months or half a year ago, one during multi bid update. Mainly when changes were implemented to the system. But the bidding process had been running smoothly for a long time now, I mean smoothly in terms of what people got used to, meaning also having to wait 20 mins or so till bids hit processed. Are you planning changes to the system or some other awesome features which might lead to zos having to monitor the process NOW?

I mean seriously, this had been bothering me now for hours but in a diffuse way. Changing it now makes 0 sense as the process was running bug free since a while. What weird things are u up to?

Elsonso

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno silly question here. Why is zos thinking, it is necessary to monitor bidding now? I mean, the last major issues occured like months or half a year ago, one during multi bid update. Mainly when changes were implemented to the system. But the bidding process had been running smoothly for a long time now, I mean smoothly in terms of what people got used to, meaning also having to wait 20 mins or so till bids hit processed. Are you planning changes to the system or some other awesome features which might lead to zos having to monitor the process NOW?

Because they are changing something on the back end and that change is going in to Update 27

karliahquinn

@ZOS_GinaBruno Thank you. I really appreciate the team attempting to fix this problem that is such a headache for me and other GMs of guilds that trade. It might need some ironing out but this is a great first step. Thanks for finally addressing this.

reoskit

JHartEllis wrote: »

I'll throw in that if the process continues to be bogged down, raising the minimum bid would also help. 10k just really isn't much for 50+ player guilds, and those are very rarely winning anyway.

I don't think the calculations go from the bottom up, but rather the top down. I doubt those really interfere with flip.

We get our mails and can see the bids that we didn't win almost immediately, so the calculations are done. I'm still flummoxed why the actual switch over is taking 18 minutes. *shrug*

linlilia

This is totally unfair to those that work and those that have long term planned for this. Because it is such a huge part of the trading game this will bring huge problems to the game.

karliahquinn

People work at all times, shift workers, casual workers, weekend workers. Not to mention the different time zones.

I don't understand what requires someone to be in game at changeover time? I live in New Zealand, current changeover happens for me in the middle of the night. I find out the next day where our trader is, and I don't know how it would change anything to be up at 3am?

WolfStar07

driosketch wrote: »

Platform?

PC NA, I often drop 10k bids with my remaining slots systematically looking for empty stalls. I'm almost through a second sweep of all the traders in the game, and since multi-bidding I don't think I've hit one of these bids. You will see empty traders in Outlaw refuges, but those are almost always bugged.

Also PC NA. I've lost bids before and managed to pick up open traders multiple times since multi bidding. But since this flip delay over the last few months? I can't freaking tell what's open now.

WolfStar07

karliahquinn wrote: »

People work at all times, shift workers, casual workers, weekend workers. Not to mention the different time zones.

I don't understand what requires someone to be in game at changeover time? I live in New Zealand, current changeover happens for me in the middle of the night. I find out the next day where our trader is, and I don't know how it would change anything to be up at 3am?

Well, were it not for the delay, you'd have 5 minutes when (in the event you lost) you could try to find an open trader and hire it for a mere 10k. Which is why many trade guilds (or any guild with a regular trader) normally have leadership available in game at that time.

karliahquinn

WolfStar07 wrote: »

karliahquinn wrote: »

People work at all times, shift workers, casual workers, weekend workers. Not to mention the different time zones.

I don't understand what requires someone to be in game at changeover time? I live in New Zealand, current changeover happens for me in the middle of the night. I find out the next day where our trader is, and I don't know how it would change anything to be up at 3am?

Well, were it not for the delay, you'd have 5 minutes when (in the event you lost) you could try to find an open trader and hire it for a mere 10k. Which is why many trade guilds (or any guild with a regular trader) normally have leadership available in game at that time.

Sadly you can't; a friend tried this and the system told him that you cannot hire a trader as he had already won one, even though in that 10 mins he had lost it to another guild.

***edited to add I see now you said in the event you lost, fair enough. I've never seen an empty trader, but then I'm not on at changeover time

twinkles21

I'll be at work these times? Why does it have to be on a weekday?

Dont_do_drugs

Elsonso wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno silly question here. Why is zos thinking, it is necessary to monitor bidding now? I mean, the last major issues occured like months or half a year ago, one during multi bid update. Mainly when changes were implemented to the system. But the bidding process had been running smoothly for a long time now, I mean smoothly in terms of what people got used to, meaning also having to wait 20 mins or so till bids hit processed. Are you planning changes to the system or some other awesome features which might lead to zos having to monitor the process NOW?

Because they are changing something on the back end and that change is going in to Update 27

Not attacking u just another silly question. Is it the wording they are using?

Edit: nevermind. Found a German thread regarding that.