Just help them with the testing!

WombatNipples65

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

Imnotsurewho

FOR SCIENCE!!!!

relentless_turnip

I agree, they are just testing to see if aoe is something they need to look at. These aren't proposed solutions(at least I hope not).

The first tests how the game plays with 66% less aoe's, I am not good enough at maths to tell you how much the 2nd test would reduce aoe's by 😂. They clearly want to see varying amounts reduction and whether cost reduction works as well to make net reduction to aoe.

The best thing we can all do is overwhelm cyrodill. Not doing so will only blur results possibly changing things for the worse in the long run. I do think ZOS needs to add more incentive, like a crown crate for every 200k ap earned

WombatNipples65

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I agree, they are just testing to see if aoe is something they need to look at. These aren't proposed solutions(at least I hope not).

The first tests how the game plays with 66% less aoe's, I am not good enough at maths to tell you how much the 2nd test would reduce aoe's by 😂. They clearly want to see varying amounts reduction and whether cost reduction works as well to make net reduction to aoe.

The best thing we can all do is overwhelm cyrodill. Not doing so will only blur results possibly changing things for the worse in the long run. I do think ZOS needs to add more incentive, like a crown crate for every 200k ap earned

The second one is an interesting one as it will effect some classes much worse than others (I'm looking at templars and Wardens). And we can only hope they give Crown Crates! xD

Imnotsurewho

I mean certain AoE's could be used a bit more efficiently by the player and server if they were given a cooldown. For instance skills like Inner Light last for 5 seconds and putting it on a 5 second cooldown would actually help people with accidentally over-casting the ability and put less strain on the server. The situations where you would need to cast it more than once every 5 seconds would be so rare!

This is just an example of how the cooldown idea could actually be put to good use to ease up some skills. Now perhaps the few skills getting spammed in high population situations wouldn't include these fringe skills like Inner Light, but every bit helps.

Btw, these tests will not be able to measure the effect that AoE proc sets like Grothdar, Overwhelming, Thurvokuns, etc. would have on the server. So reducing only the skill AoE's could be a way for them to test if the skills are really the main problem or if something else (like AoE proc sets) might be contributing equal or greater strain to the server.

Either way, as you all said above, flood them with data! Even adjusting your build to remove AoE's from your bar would still give them the data they would need.

Unified_Gaming

Imnotsurewho wrote: »

I mean certain AoE's could be used a bit more efficiently by the player and server if they were given a cooldown. For instance skills like Inner Light lasts for 5 seconds and putting it on a 5 second cooldown would actually help people with accidentally over-casting the ability and put less strain on the server. The situations where you would need to cast it more than once every 5 seconds would be so rare!

This is just an example of how the cooldown idea could actually be put to good use to ease up some skills. Now perhaps the few skills getting spammed in high population situations wouldn't include these fringe skills like Inner Light, but every bit helps.

Btw, these tests will not be able to measure the effect that AoE proc sets like Grothdar, Overwhelming, Thurvokuns, etc. would have on the server. So reducing only the skill AoE's could be a way for them to test if the skills are really the main problem or if something else (like AoE proc sets) might be contributing equal or greater strain to the server.

Either way, as you all said above, flood them with data! Even adjusting your build to remove AoE's from your bar would still give them the data they would need.

yeah roll dodge too - I see people spam that and all the miss calculations the server has to do really hurts it. Maybe add 3 seconds to dodge too?

MiserynCompany

I will join an abnormally large group and press all the buttons I am allowed to press without regulation for the sake of saving my aoe abilities. My fps drops just seeing players running furiously towards a keep in a massive herd and I have good internet and a new computer so for science I will gladly participate and I guess spam random useless abilities since I can't use any that I need? But this will be fun, right? Someone tell me this will be fun.

WombatNipples65

MiserynCompany wrote: »

I will join an abnormally large group and press all the buttons I am allowed to press without regulation for the sake of saving my aoe abilities. My fps drops just seeing players running furiously towards a keep in a massive herd and I have good internet and a new computer so for science I will gladly participate and I guess spam random useless abilities since I can't use any that I need? But this will be fun, right? Someone tell me this will be fun.

Sounds like normal Cyrodiil in Primetime, so no real change there! Been like this for 5 years now!

MiserynCompany

Yea.. You're right. I'll go farm some obnoxious flashy proc sets and make those servers work I guess.

carlos424

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I agree, they are just testing to see if aoe is something they need to look at. These aren't proposed solutions(at least I hope not).

The first tests how the game plays with 66% less aoe's, I am not good enough at maths to tell you how much the 2nd test would reduce aoe's by 😂. They clearly want to see varying amounts reduction and whether cost reduction works as well to make net reduction to aoe.

The best thing we can all do is overwhelm cyrodill. Not doing so will only blur results possibly changing things for the worse in the long run. I do think ZOS needs to add more incentive, like a crown crate for every 200k ap earned

Read the statement a little more closely. They absolutely believe aoe’s are the root of all the problems, and if their hypothesis is correct, they absolutely plan to implement some of these “fixes.”
Limiting casting and skills will definitely improve performance. How could it not? So this is not really a question of whether or not this will work, it is a question of how much they will change game play, and the over all core mechanics.

Cadbury

Even though I can't, I wish all those who can good luck and godspeed.

relentless_turnip

carlos424 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I agree, they are just testing to see if aoe is something they need to look at. These aren't proposed solutions(at least I hope not).

The first tests how the game plays with 66% less aoe's, I am not good enough at maths to tell you how much the 2nd test would reduce aoe's by 😂. They clearly want to see varying amounts reduction and whether cost reduction works as well to make net reduction to aoe.

The best thing we can all do is overwhelm cyrodill. Not doing so will only blur results possibly changing things for the worse in the long run. I do think ZOS needs to add more incentive, like a crown crate for every 200k ap earned

Read the statement a little more closely. They absolutely believe aoe’s are the root of all the problems, and if their hypothesis is correct, they absolutely plan to implement some of these “fixes.”
Limiting casting and skills will definitely improve performance. How could it not? So this is not really a question of whether or not this will work, it is a question of how much they will change game play, and the over all core mechanics.

They call them tests not fixes, if you read carefully. I'm not saying you should believe them, but at the moment we should assume they are collecting data. How they act on that data is worrying. Nothing they say indicates these are the proposed methods for reducing aoe and it makes sense these would confirm suspicions with such a drastic reduction. Hence why reducing the population would ruin this.

The only thing ominous said is that spamming aoe's will no longer be part of ESO.

Hopefully they will just change many skills that don't need a radius check to be viable. I.e. making jabs single target, rapid single target etc... And doing things like many have suggested to minimize radius checks. Like:

limiting aoe heals to groups

Not allowing single types of heals to stack(i.e only one regen, recast would refresh the effect)

Reducing group size with other 2 methods in place.

Capping aoe in general to only effect 6 targets

Make sure you're there to help gather true data and we'll worry about what they do with it after 👍😁

Kadoin

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

My time belongs to me and isn't free, so no. I'll only be around to troll and use a cancer build they can't nerf to mock ZOS and the balance of the game. Outside of that I have zero intention of helping test what nerf I'll get because they refuse to curb the power of ball groups.

WombatNipples65

Kadoin wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

My time belongs to me and isn't free, so no. I'll only be around to troll and use a cancer build they can't nerf to mock ZOS and the balance of the game. Outside of that I have zero intention of helping test what nerf I'll get because they refuse to curb the power of ball groups.

I agree that your time is your own, and I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is don't just not play Cyrodiil (When you normally would) because you are trying to send a message to them. Better you give them the data they are looking for! Also Ballgroups have been around since 2014, and every patch they just adapt, they are the top 1% of players who generally know the most about PvP and setups. I can assure you they have already adapted to these changes

Cadbury

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

My time belongs to me and isn't free, so no. I'll only be around to troll and use a cancer build they can't nerf to mock ZOS and the balance of the game. Outside of that I have zero intention of helping test what nerf I'll get because they refuse to curb the power of ball groups.

Ballgroups have been around since 2014, and every patch they just adapt, they are the top 1% of players who generally know the most about PvP and setups. I can assure you they have already adapted to these changes

Almost sounds like these changes are set in stone. Maybe it's best to accept the changes and just ride it out...

WombatNipples65

Cadbury wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

My time belongs to me and isn't free, so no. I'll only be around to troll and use a cancer build they can't nerf to mock ZOS and the balance of the game. Outside of that I have zero intention of helping test what nerf I'll get because they refuse to curb the power of ball groups.

Ballgroups have been around since 2014, and every patch they just adapt, they are the top 1% of players who generally know the most about PvP and setups. I can assure you they have already adapted to these changes

Almost sounds like these changes are set in stone. Maybe it's best to accept the changes and just ride it out...

At the end of the day it just comes down to how much money they make their shareholders. If this change adversely effects that then they won't do it. If it gives them positive results then I guess its here to stay.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I am just one lone solo player in Cyro. I still don't know if my presence there (and solo player like me) will have any impact on the server.

But, I do believe that if ZOS is indeed right, and ball groups "high APM" players spamming AOEs are the problem - then those groups should participate in this test more than anyone else.

Because if no one will show up during testing, ZOS will see in their server statistics that performance was way better and there was little to no lag, and they will be like "yeah, we found the issue !"

If however ball groups will show up and participate in this test - there is a chance that Lag will be same or worse and ZOS will be like: "Nah, it was not it, something else is the issue".

Kadoin

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

My time belongs to me and isn't free, so no. I'll only be around to troll and use a cancer build they can't nerf to mock ZOS and the balance of the game. Outside of that I have zero intention of helping test what nerf I'll get because they refuse to curb the power of ball groups.

I agree that your time is your own, and I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is don't just not play Cyrodiil (When you normally would) because you are trying to send a message to them. Better you give them the data they are looking for! Also Ballgroups have been around since 2014, and every patch they just adapt, they are the top 1% of players who generally know the most about PvP and setups. I can assure you they have already adapted to these changes

It doesn't take much knowledge to stack a bunch of passive healing, I know because I've done it. Now finding the highest heal or being the only healer in a ballgroup or small man with zero other healers is a different story. Too bad that isn't the story for any of the ballgroups on PC NA nor PC EU.

WombatNipples65

Kadoin wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

I know a lot of us don't like some of the tests they are going to be doing over September, myself included. But the worst thing you can do in this situation is not play and try to use it as a statement, they know how we feel based off of the reception they got on the original post. I think there are other routes they could go instead of this, and adding cool downs are not the way to go, in my opinion.

JUST DO THE TESTING

My time belongs to me and isn't free, so no. I'll only be around to troll and use a cancer build they can't nerf to mock ZOS and the balance of the game. Outside of that I have zero intention of helping test what nerf I'll get because they refuse to curb the power of ball groups.

I agree that your time is your own, and I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is don't just not play Cyrodiil (When you normally would) because you are trying to send a message to them. Better you give them the data they are looking for! Also Ballgroups have been around since 2014, and every patch they just adapt, they are the top 1% of players who generally know the most about PvP and setups. I can assure you they have already adapted to these changes

It doesn't take much knowledge to stack a bunch of passive healing, I know because I've done it. Now finding the highest heal or being the only healer in a ballgroup or small man with zero other healers is a different story. Too bad that isn't the story for any of the ballgroups on PC NA nor PC EU.

That is one small part of it.

merevie

everyone nodding wisely, making promises...

..meanwhile in Craglorn...

1000 stamblades in training...

We're paying for that month, lol -at least I am with ESO+ Not going to volunteer to be roadkill for the ball groups for 'fun' or 'testing'.

*brews poison*

Fawn4287

Anything to stop the incessant regen spamming at this point, they should make it a self heal only like the strongre morph of vigor, this combined with the heavy armour nerfs basically obliterated half of the bad tank stam ball groups running around.

Kadoin

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Anything to stop the incessant regen spamming at this point, they should make it a self heal only like the strongre morph of vigor, this combined with the heavy armour nerfs basically obliterated half of the bad tank stam ball groups running around.

They will never nerf it because ball groups that need 24+ to take on 4-5 players and still fail need to crutch on it to act tough on the forums by posting videos proving they lack any skills in the game. It's the hard truth that regardless of what they attempt to do, they will pick the option that gives the greater #s and unnatural advantage. That's been the case in the past, and no doubt it will be the case in the future.

And even if not, they will keep adding more and more AoE healing proc sets that no one is asking for, while nerfing actual skills to make #s gain more advantage with less investment every patch. Only in ESO is such a thing balanced. You know balance in a game is bad when a proc set costs nothing and requires no investment, but can heal more than an actual skill.

Casterial

Everyone will be forced into helping with the test when they do it to live sometime August as planned.

WombatNipples65

Kadoin wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Anything to stop the incessant regen spamming at this point, they should make it a self heal only like the strongre morph of vigor, this combined with the heavy armour nerfs basically obliterated half of the bad tank stam ball groups running around.

They will never nerf it because ball groups that need 24+ to take on 4-5 players and still fail need to crutch on it to act tough on the forums by posting videos proving they lack any skills in the game. It's the hard truth that regardless of what they attempt to do, they will pick the option that gives the greater #s and unnatural advantage. That's been the case in the past, and no doubt it will be the case in the future.

And even if not, they will keep adding more and more AoE healing proc sets that no one is asking for, while nerfing actual skills to make #s gain more advantage with less investment every patch. Only in ESO is such a thing balanced. You know balance in a game is bad when a proc set costs nothing and requires no investment, but can heal more than an actual skill.

Based off of what you are saying you are an NA player. Ballgroups on PC EU are VERY different to the so called "Ballgroups" on NA.

Tammany

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Based off of what you are saying you are an NA player. Ballgroups on PC EU are VERY different to the so called "Ballgroups" on NA.

Why exactly they are different ?

Kamchuk

We ALL want good performance. The performance has been steadily getting worse for years and our patience has worn down. I'm only a casual/solo player but I for one will do my part and try to participate during their testing time. It WILL be frustrating going through these testing hours but we might as well try to have some fun. We can help ZOS during those few hours to collect valuable data by forgetting campaign scores, AP points, and everyone (all factions) concentrating at a couple of keeps such as ASH and BRK for massive fights. That should give ZOS some real data to work with. (Hell - it would be entertaining to watch Ballgroup vs. Ballgroup to see which can claim bragging rights...)

antihero727

We have been testing for 5 years now. When will we be done testing?

I would like to start a movement for beta testing reparations 2020 for all the unpaid work the players have done. Now PvP is being forced by ZOS to test without any other options to PvP.

BigBragg

I'll join to help for testing here and there. I just am not sure double AP is a big enough carrot to get in large amounts of people to put up with this for a full month.

LinearParadox

Most "tests" they do, end up implemented. Most things that hit the PTS, go live. Most "fixes" they do, are never touched again.
Take the "BGs never starting" bug for example. Their fix was letting it start 3v4v4. It's been almost a year and that band-aid fix is still all we have.

Zo$ consistently seems to take the path of least resistance/cost at every given opportunity.
You're fooling yourselves if you think they won't keep (or try to keep) these changes if they show the slightest modicum of "improvement" to server performance.

OtarTheMad

I do agree, just help! They have done these kinds of things in the past with the CP-removal test years ago and heavy/light attack tests a few months back. I believe they also asked us to test something else but I was on a hiatus and missed it.

I think it is great that they are asking us to help them test a theory they have. How many companies do that? We all crap on ZOS that they don't care but open your eyes to some evidence that they do. They could be like any other company and just throw a "fix" on it and say "we think this will help the lag" and basically tell us to deal with it... but they aren't doing that this time... they want our help.

I am going to try to help out as much as I can even though I am not a huge fan of any of these solutions however if it gives them data/info they need to make PvP playable during prime time then I'm in. I don't believe PvP will be completely fixed, I believe lag will always exist to some degree but it can get to a point where the fan base is okay with it vs what we have had since Harrowstorm dropped.

renne

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I think it is great that they are asking us to help them test a theory they have.

No, they're just saying "please be in Cyro your usual times, this is what will be happening when you're there so you don't wonder, here is a bribe of extra AP to make sure you actually turn up". They just want to ensure people are there, if they were asking for help to test then they wouldn't bribe with AP to get people to put up with it.

I mean, you just have to look at the PTS and the massive number of feedback threads there that make absolutely zero impact especially recently. They don't care about people's opinions or feelings about the tests, they're going to make whatever choice they're going to make based on spreadsheets alone, even if it completely invalidates half the classes and half the builds of everyone left.