Is Silks of the sun set going to get buffed too? (PvP)

MaskedHuman

Swamp Raider, Sword-Singer, Sword-Dancer, War Maiden, Light Speaker, Spider Cultist Cowl, have all been changed to 400 spell/weapon damage (or 450) to 600, are we gonna see a change to Silks of the sun in the upcoming weeks of the PTS?

ketsparrowhawk

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

MaskedHuman

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

SilverIce58

Two sets that really need that buff are Ysgramor's and Netch's. There's so few frost and shock skills that they'd need a buff of like 800 instead of 600 to be good.

ketsparrowhawk

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

MaskedHuman

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

MaskedHuman

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Two sets that really need that buff are Ysgramor's and Netch's. There's so few frost and shock skills that they'd need a buff of like 800 instead of 600 to be good.

Agreed, but let's stay on topic please.

ketsparrowhawk

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

Celestro

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

But a MagDK can rely solely on Flame Damage for all of their skills in any sort of relevant rotation, including their light/heavy attacks, which is vital in what sets them apart.

Same situation with a stamsorc using Automaton. Magblades and Magplars may have all of their damage skills deal Magic Damage but not their light/heavy attacks unless using a restoration staff, which is not a damage-based weapon with damage skills.

I question if in the future there will be more Shock and Frost Damage skills since Zos didn't buff those two specified sets, which would lend itself to there definitely being no reason to buff Silks given how strong it would make MagDks then.

catnamedwill

Most probable reason quoted from another discussion on the same thing.

susmitds wrote: »

Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.

MaskedHuman

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

I think the problem is we are coming from different perspectives, I'm from a PvP perspective, Volatile dot in 1vxes in PvP deals a really considerable amount of damage, as well as the damage return part of it. I will say that from a PvE prespective I do agree with you, but I still don't agree with it when it comes to PvP

catnamedwill wrote: »

Most probable reason quoted from another discussion on the same thing.

susmitds wrote: »

Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.

what about sword dancer and sword singer? im positive they effect light attacks.

Celestro wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

But a MagDK can rely solely on Flame Damage for all of their skills in any sort of relevant rotation, including their light/heavy attacks, which is vital in what sets them apart.

Same situation with a stamsorc using Automaton. Magblades and Magplars may have all of their damage skills deal Magic Damage but not their light/heavy attacks unless using a restoration staff, which is not a damage-based weapon with damage skills.

I question if in the future there will be more Shock and Frost Damage skills since Zos didn't buff those two specified sets, which would lend itself to there definitely being no reason to buff Silks given how strong it would make MagDks then.

it looks like you're also coming from a PvE prespective, I do see the point from the PvE side, but not PvP side, especially when they buffed sword singer and sword dancer, which correct me if im wrong. DOES buff light attacks

ketsparrowhawk

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

I think the problem is we are coming from different perspectives, I'm from a pvp perspective, Volatile dot in 1vxes in pvp deals a really considerable amount of damage, as well as the damage return part of it. I will say that from a PvE prespective I do agree with you, but I still don't agree with it when it comes to pvp

catnamedwill wrote: »

Most probable reason quoted from another discussion on the same thing.

susmitds wrote: »

Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.

what about sword dancer and sword singer? im positive they effect light attacks.

Celestro wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

But a MagDK can rely solely on Flame Damage for all of their skills in any sort of relevant rotation, including their light/heavy attacks, which is vital in what sets them apart.

Same situation with a stamsorc using Automaton. Magblades and Magplars may have all of their damage skills deal Magic Damage but not their light/heavy attacks unless using a restoration staff, which is not a damage-based weapon with damage skills.

I question if in the future there will be more Shock and Frost Damage skills since Zos didn't buff those two specified sets, which would lend itself to there definitely being no reason to buff Silks given how strong it would make MagDks then.

it looks like you're also coming from a PvE prespective, I do see the point from the PvE side, but not PvP side, especially when they buffed sword singer and sword dancer, which correct me if im wrong. DOES buff light attacks

I primarily play pvp actually. Have spent a considerable amount of time on a magDK in PvP. This all holds true in PvP as well. Volatile armor certainly does not do enough damage to be of concern to anyone in any scenario. DK’s are doing all of their actual damage with fire even in PvP.

MaskedHuman

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

I think the problem is we are coming from different perspectives, I'm from a pvp perspective, Volatile dot in 1vxes in pvp deals a really considerable amount of damage, as well as the damage return part of it. I will say that from a PvE prespective I do agree with you, but I still don't agree with it when it comes to pvp

catnamedwill wrote: »

Most probable reason quoted from another discussion on the same thing.

susmitds wrote: »

Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.

what about sword dancer and sword singer? im positive they effect light attacks.

Celestro wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

But a MagDK can rely solely on Flame Damage for all of their skills in any sort of relevant rotation, including their light/heavy attacks, which is vital in what sets them apart.

Same situation with a stamsorc using Automaton. Magblades and Magplars may have all of their damage skills deal Magic Damage but not their light/heavy attacks unless using a restoration staff, which is not a damage-based weapon with damage skills.

I question if in the future there will be more Shock and Frost Damage skills since Zos didn't buff those two specified sets, which would lend itself to there definitely being no reason to buff Silks given how strong it would make MagDks then.

it looks like you're also coming from a PvE prespective, I do see the point from the PvE side, but not PvP side, especially when they buffed sword singer and sword dancer, which correct me if im wrong. DOES buff light attacks

I primarily play pvp actually. Have spent a considerable amount of time on a magDK in PvP. This all holds true in PvP as well. Volatile armor certainly does not do enough damage to be of concern to anyone in any scenario. DK’s are doing all of their actual damage with fire even in PvP.

It builds up, especially if you play attrition style magdk like me with a bunch of dots, the extra push of the volatile armor dot in a 1vx fight helps in adding extra AoE pressure.
I've never said that magdks don't do actual damage with fire, I actually said the fire damage abilities are the most impactful, I was just using the volatile armor/fossilize as a way to show you that the entire magdk kit isn't all flame damage. which you said they were. that was the purpose of me bringing up volatile/fossilize dealing magic damage. but let's go back to the topic. I still think silks of the sun should receive a buff, not even to 600, an increase to 500 would be nice to see. especially when they buffed sets like sword dancer and sword singer, which correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they do buff light attacks.

Celestro

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

I think the problem is we are coming from different perspectives, I'm from a PvP perspective, Volatile dot in 1vxes in PvP deals a really considerable amount of damage, as well as the damage return part of it. I will say that from a PvE prespective I do agree with you, but I still don't agree with it when it comes to PvP

catnamedwill wrote: »

Most probable reason quoted from another discussion on the same thing.

susmitds wrote: »

Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.

what about sword dancer and sword singer? im positive they effect light attacks.

Celestro wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

But a MagDK can rely solely on Flame Damage for all of their skills in any sort of relevant rotation, including their light/heavy attacks, which is vital in what sets them apart.

Same situation with a stamsorc using Automaton. Magblades and Magplars may have all of their damage skills deal Magic Damage but not their light/heavy attacks unless using a restoration staff, which is not a damage-based weapon with damage skills.

I question if in the future there will be more Shock and Frost Damage skills since Zos didn't buff those two specified sets, which would lend itself to there definitely being no reason to buff Silks given how strong it would make MagDks then.

it looks like you're also coming from a PvE prespective, I do see the point from the PvE side, but not PvP side, especially when they buffed sword singer and sword dancer, which correct me if im wrong. DOES buff light attacks

Yeah I believe those do buff Light and Heavy attacks, which is a tiny bit iffy but looking at it from the point of view that you only have five skills (or six if you use the ultimate) that are being buffed, all of which aren't like simultaneously usable in the most cohesive manner as far as burst goes, it doesn't seem too outlandish.

YandereGirlfriend

There have been like 999 threads on this topic but ZOS hasn't budged one inch.

They are clearly balancing for PvE-only (with Light Attacks being the decisive factor) with these sets but they've also made the decision that the 400-level sets will forever be deconstruction fodder and that they are bizarrely okay with that.

As for the Weapon Skill sets, you cannot make a viable PvE rotation out of ONLY 2H or DW or Destruction Staff abilities, so using them in that context is beyond pointless, even if the Light Attacks are buffed. That's why they are at the 600 level. But they are, as well War Maiden, extremely beneficial to certain classes in PvP and that's clearly the balancing blind spot of ZOS with these changes.

Ysgramor and Netch need a) to be completely overhauled as sets or b) need to see a dramatic increase of Frost and Shock abilities to ever be considered viable sets. Personally, I would love magDens and magSorcs to have the same ability for single element specialization that magDKs have. That would be amazing for the "power fantasies" of those classes and it would also be easier to balance abilities and sets around.

MaskedHuman

Celestro wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

I think the problem is we are coming from different perspectives, I'm from a PvP perspective, Volatile dot in 1vxes in PvP deals a really considerable amount of damage, as well as the damage return part of it. I will say that from a PvE prespective I do agree with you, but I still don't agree with it when it comes to PvP

catnamedwill wrote: »

Most probable reason quoted from another discussion on the same thing.

susmitds wrote: »

Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.

what about sword dancer and sword singer? im positive they effect light attacks.

Celestro wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, let's ignore staff types for now. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

is light attack damage increase really not worth buffing a set? even tho a lot of very similar sets have been buffed?

Also, from the way you're speaking. it seems you're coming from a PvE prespective. I'm talking primarily PvP here.

But a MagDK can rely solely on Flame Damage for all of their skills in any sort of relevant rotation, including their light/heavy attacks, which is vital in what sets them apart.

Same situation with a stamsorc using Automaton. Magblades and Magplars may have all of their damage skills deal Magic Damage but not their light/heavy attacks unless using a restoration staff, which is not a damage-based weapon with damage skills.

I question if in the future there will be more Shock and Frost Damage skills since Zos didn't buff those two specified sets, which would lend itself to there definitely being no reason to buff Silks given how strong it would make MagDks then.

it looks like you're also coming from a PvE prespective, I do see the point from the PvE side, but not PvP side, especially when they buffed sword singer and sword dancer, which correct me if im wrong. DOES buff light attacks

Yeah I believe those do buff Light and Heavy attacks, which is a tiny bit iffy but looking at it from the point of view that you only have five skills (or six if you use the ultimate) that are being buffed, all of which aren't like simultaneously usable in the most cohesive manner as far as burst goes, it doesn't seem too outlandish.

Stamsorcs with 2H builds in PvP primarily use 2h abilities to burst people with. In PvE, I'd agree this doesn't seem like anything at all. In PvP however, If sword singer gets buffed, then so should the sun.
I think that's the main issue I find in this discussion, PvE and PvP are extremely different when it comes to sets like these

MaskedHuman

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There have been like 999 threads on this topic but ZOS hasn't budged one inch.

They are clearly balancing for PvE-only (with Light Attacks being the decisive factor) with these sets but they've also made the decision that the 400-level sets will forever be deconstruction fodder and that they are bizarrely okay with that.

As for the Weapon Skill sets, you cannot make a viable PvE rotation out of ONLY 2H or DW or Destruction Staff abilities, so using them in that context is beyond pointless, even if the Light Attacks are buffed. That's why they are at the 600 level. But they are, as well War Maiden, extremely beneficial to certain classes in PvP and that's clearly the balancing blind spot of ZOS with these changes.

Ysgramor and Netch need a) to be completely overhauled as sets or b) need to see a dramatic increase of Frost and Shock abilities to ever be considered viable sets. Personally, I would love magDens and magSorcs to have the same ability for single element specialization that magDKs have. That would be amazing for the "power fantasies" of those classes and it would also be easier to balance abilities and sets around.

I agree with you, sword singer doesn't seem like an issue at all in PvE, but in PvP, it makes a difference, on stamsorcs only tho, because they're the only ones who use 2H skills primarily to kill people (no one uses sword dancer in pve or pvp so let's count it out for now)

That's actually one of the reasons why im a magdk main, cuz of the power fantasy, I love fire and I love melee, been playing the same class ever since 2014 and still have fun with it.

Jodynn

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

Doesn't buff volatile or degeneration, and it locks you in to only using fire damage skills if you wanted to use other things such as elemental weapon which can be an amazing burst combo with empowered whip and leap, furthermore it doesn't buff your healing done with inhale or coagulating, nor shields.

ketsparrowhawk

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

Doesn't buff volatile or degeneration, and it locks you in to only using fire damage skills if you wanted to use other things such as elemental weapon which can be an amazing burst combo with empowered whip and leap, furthermore it doesn't buff your healing done with inhale or coagulating, nor shields.

If you’re choosing to use silks then one assumes you are going for a 100% fire damage setup. And again.. who cares about the damage from volatile???? The damage is not the point of that skill and it’s a tiny amount anyway. DK’s actual damage comes from fire. Nobody else has the option to do 100% of only one damage type.

Currently, on the live server, silks outperforms julianos on a DK damage-wise. But julianos outperforms war maiden on both magblade and magPlar (on a target dummy). Test for yourself and see.

adilazimdegilx

Elemental succession gave 550 damage to fire and has over 95% uptime on frontbar so it's even better yet hardly anybody still uses it and a very niche set. And they actually nerfed it to 492 damage in PTS.
No way they are making sun set 600 damage. It looks like they actually dont want diversity.

Wolf81

adilazimdegilx wrote: »

Elemental succession gave 550 damage to fire and has over 95% uptime on frontbar so it's even better yet hardly anybody still uses it and a very niche set. And they actually nerfed it to 492 damage in PTS.
No way they are making sun set 600 damage. It looks like they actually dont want diversity.

You think ES will still be a good set?..I currently have it on my magcro with MS.

Xvorg

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

like 60% of mDK dmg is fire, the other 40% is magic. Besides most mDKs combine flame with another element such as lightning or ice because those staves help them a lot with AoE dmg and blocking.

Any mDK using Sun in PVP is doing it wrong because it won't increase your healing too.

In PvE it could be a think, when parsing on a dummy, but there are much better options, like strategist, that does not restrict your dmg to just flame.

MaskedHuman

Xvorg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

like 60% of mDK dmg is fire, the other 40% is magic. Besides most mDKs combine flame with another element such as lightning or ice because those staves help them a lot with AoE dmg and blocking.

Any mDK using Sun in PVP is doing it wrong because it won't increase your healing too.

In PvE it could be a think, when parsing on a dummy, but there are much better options, like strategist, that does not restrict your dmg to just flame.

yeah I agree with that, the only heal that sun buffs is embers, which is already a non reliable heal in open world, so I doubt sun will be used in pvp even if it got buffed to 600

ketsparrowhawk

Xvorg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

like 60% of mDK dmg is fire, the other 40% is magic. Besides most mDKs combine flame with another element such as lightning or ice because those staves help them a lot with AoE dmg and blocking.

Any mDK using Sun in PVP is doing it wrong because it won't increase your healing too.

In PvE it could be a think, when parsing on a dummy, but there are much better options, like strategist, that does not restrict your dmg to just flame.

Interesting. Here’s my mag DK’s PvP combo: destro ult (fire), empowering chains (fire), engulfing flames (fire), burning embers (fire), whip (fire). LA weaving a fire staff the whole time. Elf bane with grothdarr. Nothing but flame damage and it slays. 600 free spell damage would be ridiculous.

Xvorg

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

like 60% of mDK dmg is fire, the other 40% is magic. Besides most mDKs combine flame with another element such as lightning or ice because those staves help them a lot with AoE dmg and blocking.

Any mDK using Sun in PVP is doing it wrong because it won't increase your healing too.

In PvE it could be a think, when parsing on a dummy, but there are much better options, like strategist, that does not restrict your dmg to just flame.

Interesting. Here’s my mag DK’s PvP combo: destro ult (fire), empowering chains (fire), engulfing flames (fire), burning embers (fire), whip (fire). LA weaving a fire staff the whole time. Elf bane with grothdarr. Nothing but flame damage and it slays. 600 free spell damage would be ridiculous.

So you like playing glass cannon on a DK? How do you heal yourself? What do you do against siege on Cyro, just run towards the first templar?

Don't you block? If yes, do you use stam or magicka?

Finally, elf bane? Seriously? 2 extra ticks on an environment that requires you to purge constantly? New Shalk´s looks better since it increases your ulti regen, your dmg and your resource recovery through Battle Roar. I can get that Elf Bane can be useful with Zaan and maybe with Ilambris if your enemy likes to stand still, but on its own it has been always a lower tier set that does not provide a reliable dmg.

Hotdog_23

Agree Silk should get buffed to 600 as there are draw back to the set such as it does not affect heals.

ketsparrowhawk

Xvorg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

like 60% of mDK dmg is fire, the other 40% is magic. Besides most mDKs combine flame with another element such as lightning or ice because those staves help them a lot with AoE dmg and blocking.

Any mDK using Sun in PVP is doing it wrong because it won't increase your healing too.

In PvE it could be a think, when parsing on a dummy, but there are much better options, like strategist, that does not restrict your dmg to just flame.

Interesting. Here’s my mag DK’s PvP combo: destro ult (fire), empowering chains (fire), engulfing flames (fire), burning embers (fire), whip (fire). LA weaving a fire staff the whole time. Elf bane with grothdarr. Nothing but flame damage and it slays. 600 free spell damage would be ridiculous.

So you like playing glass cannon on a DK? How do you heal yourself? What do you do against siege on Cyro, just run towards the first templar?

Don't you block? If yes, do you use stam or magicka?

Finally, elf bane? Seriously? 2 extra ticks on an environment that requires you to purge constantly? New Shalk´s looks better since it increases your ulti regen, your dmg and your resource recovery through Battle Roar. I can get that Elf Bane can be useful with Zaan and maybe with Ilambris if your enemy likes to stand still, but on its own it has been always a lower tier set that does not provide a reliable dmg.

Elf Bane gives grothdarr 100% uptime which is the only reason to use it. It’s actually a very popular setup for magDK’s right now and it works really well. Grothdarr helps sustain too by applying burning and thus proccing the combustion passive. I use “don’t stand in big red circle” against siege.. most of my pvp is in BG’s anyway. And I use the DK’s powerful healing toolkit to stay alive against players.. namely flame lash and burning embers. I also have cauterize and coag slotted. And I use line of sight and smart positioning. Works great.

adilazimdegilx

Wolf81 wrote: »

adilazimdegilx wrote: »

Elemental succession gave 550 damage to fire and has over 95% uptime on frontbar so it's even better yet hardly anybody still uses it and a very niche set. And they actually nerfed it to 492 damage in PTS.
No way they are making sun set 600 damage. It looks like they actually dont want diversity.

You think ES will still be a good set?..I currently have it on my magcro with MS.

I'm not even sure if I use it on magDK anymore. On magcro uptimes are sligtly worse for each buff (~80%). Note, damage that procced the ES buff is not buffed by ES. So you get 1 less damage tick, this is more noticable on magcro since you have to proc all three buff seperately.

For example on my Trial Dummy parse with DK I have 2004 total attacks, and 66 Flame Succession procs. So I'm losing extra damage on 3% of attacks. This adds to downtime on succession proc. In a magcro this goes up, in fact looking at my messy parse, it goes to 6% of attacks.

Sadly, sticking with new Siroria looks better on paper. At least in where you can use it more effectively.

ThePedge

Automaton was not buffed either.

Stamsorc for example would then get this on every damage ability. LA, Weapon Skills, Hurricane.

Iirc NB has the most poison/disease damage but will not affect Light Attacks, or 2H executioner which is the most used. (Or spin2win)

MagNB does have a lot of Magic Damage and ive used War Maiden in the past. But Light Attacks are a huge portion of your damage. Almost as much as a spammable at times. No Light Attack is magic damage.
Same goes for MagDen and MagPlar.

All DK damage abilities, LAs, Weapon Abilities, Weapon Enchants are commonly fire damage. For the same reason as Automaton, would disproportionately affect one class.

Jodynn

ThePedge wrote: »

Automaton was not buffed either.

Stamsorc for example would then get this on every damage ability. LA, Weapon Skills, Hurricane.

Iirc NB has the most poison/disease damage but will not affect Light Attacks, or 2H executioner which is the most used. (Or pin2win)

MagNB does have a lot of Magic Damage and ive used War Maiden in the past. But Light Attacks are a huge portion of your damage. Almost as much as a spammable at times. No Light Attack is magic damage.
Same goes for MagDen and MagPlar.

All DK damage abilities, LAs, Weapon Abilities, Weapon Enchants are commonly fire damage. For the same reason as Automaton, would disproportionately affect one class.

Be a damn shame to give them something unique and worth using instead of still being not strong enough to matter.

Considering magDK parses less than magblade on pts and they aren't getting any buffs..

Succession even when it was 550 was parsing less than mother sorrow partially to not having any lines of spell crit.
600 for silks would have been fine and you couldn't frontbar it, but I theorycraft and test things often, I don't believe I can say the same for devs or people making this argument.

On pts with the nerf succession is still weaker than mother sorrow with thief or shadow albeit the difference of 1k single target it's even more noticeable in AoE by several K due to mystic orb not being buffed by it. Suns is even weaker right along the lines of burning spellweave and scathing mage around 2k or 3k less than sorrow single target and even less aoe due to not buffing mystic orb.

For pvp it would be a great offensive set at 600 but offering no sustain like bright throat and magicka setups as well as not offering any healing buff which other sets do ( not including succ )

Succession was never overpowered in pvp and a line of spell crit in pvp is lesser than a line of magicka which succession had.

But that's based from actual testing and quantitative data that's overlooked.

Danksta

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Problem with Silks is that is disproportionately powerful on a DK specifically. It would be like giving magDK free 600 spell damage with no penalties (compare to NMA = 401 + 5% cost), because literally ALL of their damage is fire. None of these other "damage-type" sets have that kind of disproportionate affect on a specific class.

what about war maiden? all of magnbs damage is magic type, and a lot of magplar abilities are also magic type except for sun fire, sword singer? stamsorcs with 2h builds primarily only use 2h abilities for damage. so I don't really think that's a good arguement

Magblade's class abilities are magic damage. But their light attacks are not (which is a significant portion of DPS), their non-class abilities are not, their destro/meteor ult isn't.

Same goes for magplar.

Whereas on a magDK.. every single ounce of damage that they deal is fire. Every LA weave. Ultimates, everything.

I can see the argument vs Sword Singer in PVP.

fossilize and volatile armor deals magic damage, so technically all magdk damage isn't fire, only the impactful skills,
magnb. ALL their kit is magic damage, regardless of staff type. if Silks of the sun shouldn't be buffed because "it'll be a buff to magdk" then war maiden shouldn't have been buffed because it's a buff to magnb and magplars.

Fossilize and Volatile Armor deal a paltry amount of damage. They are not used for the purpose of dealing damage.

Staff type matters. LA weaves make up a significant portion of your overall damage. In PVE, magblades use destro ultimate, fire staff, wall of elements. A large chunk of their total DPS is non-magic damage. My magblades does about 40k on a 6-mil dummy.. and ~10k of that (25%!!!) is light attacks from my fire staff. Same is true for magplar.

Look at a magDK's PVE rotation and you will see 100% fire damage and nothing else (volatile armor does not count.. please).

Does Mystic Orb count?