Remove cyrodil and add open world pvp with option on/off

Sylvermynx

@scorpius2k1 - what would be your suggestion for stopping the griefing of players who are pvp Off, but get flagged through the efforts of those who think pk'ing is the only fun game? As I stated above, all the years I played WoW and RIFT (WoW 2006 - 2013, RIFT 2013 - 2016), it was all too easy to wind up flagged when you had no intention of doing so simply because pk'ers were (and most likely are to this day) very adept at griefing.

Now I have said in the past, and will say again, that if there is no possibility of griefing those who choose not to flag up, then I'm all for open world pvp - even though the way ESO is set up, ow pvp would be problematic (you know, no choke points, no keeps outside Cyro etc - and unlikely in the extreme that those would be added ow). However, while I was playing the other games, the devs made various attempts to "fix" the griefing, and were IIRC totally unable to do so.

tomofhyrule

I think a lot of people are forgetting one major thing about this game: the majority of players (who are not on this forum) are not interested in PvP in the slightest.

After all, normal events we'll get a few "Indriks are boring" threads, but that's it. Whenever a Midyear comes around, all we see are "OMG ZOS IS MAKING ME PVP WTF?!?!?"

There's also a reason that they're playing so hard into nostalgia for things like Skyrim. Fans of the TES series (which are open-world solo RPGs) haven't had a main series game since 2011, and their next one isn't coming for quite a while. A lot of them are joining ESO, even though they don't really play MMOs, just for the Elder Scrolls fix... since you can play it solo.

So if they went and made the entire world have a PvP option, this is what is likely to happen:

• Cyrodiil population drops since many people don't want to go there since they can just PvP anywhere.
• Most players people will encounter will have 'enable PvP' turned off, so the ones who want to PvP won't find opponents
• If 'enable PvP' is on by default, newbies will either leave the game or spam /z with "how do i turn off pvp?"
• People who do have 'enable PvP' on would need to also have a build for PvP, which isn't always good for PvE content.
• Cyro population goes back up since it's the only place people will be able to find a fight, and the lag comes back so nothing ends up changing at all.

Realistically, look at IC when there is no event running. It's permanently on one bar population. I've actually started running in there with a side character just to farm dailies for proofs, and I rarely hit another player...and when I do, I'll let them enjoy the 0 Tel Vars and the quick port back to base rather than running through the sewers. Also look at the number of people who auto-decline duels. Try that as a test - go through Mournhold or something and invite every player you see to a duel and see how many people are willing to accept.

AlnilamE

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Do you want cities full of ball groups spamming Eye of the Storm, Magicka Detonation, and Earthgore/Hitis????

Dueling on top of wayshrines and crafting areas is bad enough, I don't want to be ganked at the bank because my PvP flag "magically" turned itself on. And with server performance the way it is, that WOULD happen.

NO. Hard NO. HELL %^$&^@#$&*(*&$W% NO

How hard is it to just disable PvP anything in cities. WoW does it, so can ESO.

I think you missed the OPTION part where it would have to be manually enabled to even interact with other players as PvP, much like the "Invite to duel" option. The only difference here again, is a toggle option should you want to (or not want to) participate in PvP style content.

WoW has had this for years, it's called War-mode:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/War_Mode

ESO needs to get with the times and stop putting the void between PvP and PvE content, and this is one way to make EVERYONE happy, even from a server performance standpoint.

Think.

Have thought about it. As it comes up on here about as often as requests for an auction house.

Still say no. Will always say no.

Stop trying to make this game into something else. If you want WoW style play then go and play that game & leave this one in peace.

It's already here, It's called "Invite to duel".

Proposing open-world PvP is no different just an always on or off option.

It's not turning ESO into WoW lol.

But what would be the point? Just being able to see which other players are willing to "duel" and have the element of surprise if they are not paying attention?

Cyrodiil has objectives. Whatever your thoughts on the 3-Banners War, working to control the map and win the campaign is the point of PvP in Cyrodiil.

Can you explain what the point of general open world PvP would be in ESO? What would it accomplish that can't be accomplished by the dueling system?

Narvuntien

Booo Cryodil is amazing.

If only it didn't lag, it would be the absolute best medieval warfare PVP experience.

You sort of just got to become one with the lag, expect it and play around it.

You play PVP enough you stop trying to out skill your opponents because its irrelevant in the lag and it just breaks down into a strobelight brawl.

Thechuckage

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I think a lot of people are forgetting one major thing about this game: the majority of players (who are not on this forum) are not interested in PvP in the slightest.

After all, normal events we'll get a few "Indriks are boring" threads, but that's it. Whenever a Midyear comes around, all we see are "OMG ZOS IS MAKING ME PVP WTF?!?!?"

There's also a reason that they're playing so hard into nostalgia for things like Skyrim. Fans of the TES series (which are open-world solo RPGs) haven't had a main series game since 2011, and their next one isn't coming for quite a while. A lot of them are joining ESO, even though they don't really play MMOs, just for the Elder Scrolls fix... since you can play it solo.

So if they went and made the entire world have a PvP option, this is what is likely to happen:

• Cyrodiil population drops since many people don't want to go there since they can just PvP anywhere.
• Most players people will encounter will have 'enable PvP' turned off, so the ones who want to PvP won't find opponents
• If 'enable PvP' is on by default, newbies will either leave the game or spam /z with "how do i turn off pvp?"
• People who do have 'enable PvP' on would need to also have a build for PvP, which isn't always good for PvE content.
• Cyro population goes back up since it's the only place people will be able to find a fight, and the lag comes back so nothing ends up changing at all.

Realistically, look at IC when there is no event running. It's permanently on one bar population. I've actually started running in there with a side character just to farm dailies for proofs, and I rarely hit another player...and when I do, I'll let them enjoy the 0 Tel Vars and the quick port back to base rather than running through the sewers. Also look at the number of people who auto-decline duels. Try that as a test - go through Mournhold or something and invite every player you see to a duel and see how many people are willing to accept.

Adding a couple points -

Justice system will need an overhaul. Now I would LOVE to see the guards demolish a ball zerg, but that wouldn't be fun for the pvp crowd. Also those guards are wandering around outside of towns as well (have a bounty and you run into them sooner or later without thinking about it.)

How will regular NPC react to another alliance if you are flagged?

And considering the number of gankers who were camping PvE objectives during the last event, you can be very sure the same type of thing will be happening.

tyrion_archer

Cyro zoned pvp is fine... what they can make it better is more player designed changes.

For example, recall the time players can upgrade guards to the outposts. Of course it turned out to be OP but the option was fun.

More places to build, upgrade and demolish would be added value. Just look at what New World is doing with the build a town system so other guilds can seige it.

Imaging if the 3 towns were guild owned, build layout and defense was player designed. We'd be fighting over those 3 towns more than trying for emp or going after the silly hammer.

Anyway, lots to improve in cryo without moving pvp anywhere else.

Galwylin

As a current WOW player I can tell you if you give a toggle to players it will be off. They have to craft reasons for people to have it on so I doubt ZOS would do that for the entire world when Cyrodill is suffering as it is. If you removed the keeps in Cyrodill, that is what it would be like. You'd be lucky to find a PVP fight and if you did it would probably only be around wayshrines because that's how PVPers do things. Without setups to help fights happen they just won't. This is basically asking them to change something for no benefit to anyone. World PVP would become like ganking newbies in Goldshire. Not only because its easy but because there's nothing else to do. You're basically saying make Cyrodill PVE which I'm all for but its not going to add to the game beyond that. There's not going to be a fight in the middle of Al'kir just because.

Sphinxmoth

Dude, performance is dying as it is and you want to bring overworld PvP? Seriously?
Also it will spread skilled players through zones and shards, making it really hard to find worthy opponent, so people will flow in some specific zone and we'll get something like Dueling Alik'r, but with mass PvP... Which is literally Cyrodiil, but small-scaled (because Cyrodiil is biggest zone in game, is damn huge actually, compared to other zones). So, if we'll get openworld PvP, we'll end up with some zone (possibly Alik'r once more) overcrowded, bathed in blood, and with killed performance.
That's why I hope we'll never ever get that thing.

scorpius2k1

Dovakhan wrote: »

Just...forget I ever joined this conversation. It's just not worth the soul shredding involving it :P

No kidding lol, same here. This is obviously yet another topic way too sensitive to discuss and next to impossible to be constructive with. I forget how the forums here are full of gankers, morseo than the actual PvP in ESO itself.

Forum PvP is working properly at least, and everyone here likes to play that mode

Vanagrand

I would love that. Cyro is fine, but open world PVP have always been my favorite part. I hate zergling so just disabling PVP at all in cities would be great and in a 5m radius of wayshrines would be my only request..

The sensation of danger when you are moving around is great in wow when you have PVP activated. Pveers just never need to turn this on and thats it.

Daemons_Bane

Vanagrand wrote: »

I would love that. Cyro is fine, but open world PVP have always been my favorite part. I hate zergling so just disabling PVP at all in cities would be great and in a 5m radius of wayshrines would be my only request..

The sensation of danger when you are moving around is great in wow when you have PVP activated. Pveers just never need to turn this on and thats it.

You forget that we would still need to deal with you..

Hallothiel

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

Just...forget I ever joined this conversation. It's just not worth the soul shredding involving it :P

No kidding lol, same here. This is obviously yet another topic way too sensitive to discuss and next to impossible to be constructive with. I forget how the forums here are full of gankers, morseo than the actual PvP in ESO itself.

Forum PvP is working properly at least, and everyone here likes to play that mode

Rubbish. People have calmly and constructively replied to your posts & the original idea, discussing their point of view in a rational manner.

But as they don’t agree with you, they are ‘gankers’.

Ridiculous.

Karmanorway

Ive played games with this pvp mode so it can be done, but! Those games also had a max player instance of 24 ppl 😂 GTAO/RDO etc.

Parasaurolophus

Anyone who says that the game needs pvp on pve locations, just answer yourself a few questions:
1) Who will you fight there?
2) What are you going to fight for somewhere on Auridon?

Gilvoth

title says
Remove cyrodil and add open world pvp with option on/off
i hope and pray the developers do this.
this would be the very Best option, it would fix the game.
i hope and pray the developers do this.

Daemons_Bane

Gilvoth wrote: »

title says
Remove cyrodil and add open world pvp with option on/off
i hope and pray the developers do this.
this would be the very Best option, it would fix the game.
i hope and pray the developers do this.

Fix it for who exactly.. for the pvp'ers.? Doing it on the cost of the pve'ers

Gilvoth

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

title says
Remove cyrodil and add open world pvp with option on/off
i hope and pray the developers do this.
this would be the very Best option, it would fix the game.
i hope and pray the developers do this.

Fix it for who exactly.. for the pvp'ers.? Doing it on the cost of the pve'ers

they just turn "off" thier flag in the options and they cannot be attacked nor enter pvp, has nothing to do with them because the on / off flagg is set to auto "off" just like it is in all mmo's with this option.
it hurts no one.

Daemons_Bane

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

title says
Remove cyrodil and add open world pvp with option on/off
i hope and pray the developers do this.
this would be the very Best option, it would fix the game.
i hope and pray the developers do this.

Fix it for who exactly.. for the pvp'ers.? Doing it on the cost of the pve'ers

they just turn "off" thier flag in the options and they cannot be attacked nor enter pvp, has nothing to do with them because the on / off flagg is set to auto "off" just like it is in all mmo's with this option.
it hurts no one.

We have to look at all the extra war, deal with all the fighting, spells, lag and skill animation that the suggestion would transfer over to us.. how is that not a cost to us, when it is not something we want, neither something that is in line with a ES title

EmEm_Oh

Browart wrote: »

As the title says. Cyrodill has problem with lags since release game, its just a failed idea to stuck hundrets people on 1 map with combat without cooldowns. Instead rework cyrodil into pve zone but allow to open world (tamriel and outside) pvp with option to turn it ON or OFF. People who want to fight will still do it everywhere others will chilling doing other stuff.

Also it would fix membership faction because outside of cyrodil your faction doesnt matter. In pvp u can just use token and change faction or relog on your alt and play same campaign.


Otherwise we will see more weird changes to help cyrodill and sooner or later game will become into turn base system or wow system without any action combat.

That's a one-way express ticket for ESO to go offline. Permanently. lol.

UGotBenched91

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Do you want cities full of ball groups spamming Eye of the Storm, Magicka Detonation, and Earthgore/Hitis????

Dueling on top of wayshrines and crafting areas is bad enough, I don't want to be ganked at the bank because my PvP flag "magically" turned itself on. And with server performance the way it is, that WOULD happen.

NO. Hard NO. HELL %^$&^@#$&*(*&$W% NO

That awkward moment when you’ve never played an MMO with open world PVP but you try and act like you know what your saying but it shows you really have no idea.

sharquez

I love how it was clearly stated as a toggle option, and we still have folks who would never tun it on so adamant it would ruin their experience as if they would be affected. The many and varied environments of this vast game world would be an awesome spectacle to have mini wars in, or small skirmishes.

Dueling doesn't really scratch that itch of multiplayer or even reward people in anyway.

BGs you cant play with your friends anymore in a controlled team-play environment.
I cannot think of any other game that has ever done something so silly as remove the option to play a team game with your friends. imagine one day if halo or cod said you cant play with your friends anymore only random teams. ridiculous

Cyrodiil has been a love hat environment for me for ever, but i dont think that shuttign it down is the answer. honestly i think that breaking it up into smaller instanced separate war-zones (maybe 6 total for each triangle of keeps) would help separate players and allow for better performance, but i have no hope for that happening so it is what is.

IC has been great lately, Wish it had some-kind of monthly or weekly reward leaderboard similar to cyrodiil but whatever.

The main zones have quest-lines based around enemy operations in their zones. Having actual different player factions "flag up" and "stage attacks" on those who were interested in participating would only add to the sort of "eternal war" state of the game, and give Pvpers something fresh to chew on, which we need.

The folks who want to quest can quest nothing changes for them except maybe witnessing an amusing spectacle now and again.

Daemons_Bane

sharquez wrote: »

I love how it was clearly stated as a toggle option, and we still have folks who would never tun it on so adamant it would ruin their experience as if they would be affected. The many and varied environments of this vast game world would be an awesome spectacle to have mini wars in, or small skirmishes.

The folks who want to quest can quest nothing changes for them except maybe witnessing an amusing spectacle now and again.

It WOULD sour my experience, for reasons that have been stated multiple times by multiple players

Cronopoly

The problem in PVP is EVERYONE is on the SAME
Physical PVP Server
Instance
Network NICs (set Bandwidth)
Server I/O Processor (set Bandwidth)
Memory (Bandwidth)
User sessions in Memory, which the code must iterate through per clock "cycle".

DAoC had RVR, their version of PVP and yes some battles would get lag with alot of players in a keep fight of 200+ vs 200+. But there were 3 Home PVP Zones, on any given server. You had to zone over to the others to fight there in other Realms Home PVP Instance and capture their keeps and towers. At no time was EVERONE on a Named PVP Server in the same zone using all the resources of the Server.

Cyrodill could use a redesign seriously. It's too small, and needs to be split up. Or setup a new DLC in some of that empty space on the World Map for new RVR/PVP zone(s) How many PVE DLC's do we get per 1 PVP DLC?

Gilvoth

a toggle on / off open world pvp would not cause any problems nor bother the pve community.
it would fix lagg and help the pvp community, the pve community would not be bothered by this, infact it would make the game better for all of us.
in addition it would also allow the pve community to go into a purely pve cryodiil just as they have been asking for, for many years.

Daemons_Bane

Gilvoth wrote: »

a toggle on / off open world pvp would not cause any problems nor bother the pve community.
it would fix lagg and help the pvp community, the pve community would not be bothered by this, infact it would make the game better for all of us.
in addition it would also allow the pve community to go into a purely pve cryodiil just as they have been asking for, for many years.

Again, I strongly disagree.. Stop saying that it will be better for all of us.. That is not a fact, yjust your point of view.. Having PvP in the standard zones, WILL bother me

Gilvoth

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

a toggle on / off open world pvp would not cause any problems nor bother the pve community.
it would fix lagg and help the pvp community, the pve community would not be bothered by this, infact it would make the game better for all of us.
in addition it would also allow the pve community to go into a purely pve cryodiil just as they have been asking for, for many years.

Again, I strongly disagree.. Stop saying that it will be better for all of us.. That is not a fact, yjust your point of view.. Having PvP in the standard zones, WILL bother me

it will decrease lagg for the entire server because cryodiil will be closed.
if seeing pvp happen near you is upsetting then they can simply makes towns unable to have any fight, but we have been asking for that for years already so this would be a win in many ways for many people.
again pve players will be uneffected by a change like this because it will not involve anyone whom has the pvp toggled "off"
i cannot imagine how it could bother anyone for this to happen, those are all positive reactions to an option like this to take place.

Gilvoth

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

title says
Remove cyrodil and add open world pvp with option on/off
i hope and pray the developers do this.
this would be the very Best option, it would fix the game.
i hope and pray the developers do this.

Fix it for who exactly.. for the pvp'ers.? Doing it on the cost of the pve'ers

they just turn "off" thier flag in the options and they cannot be attacked nor enter pvp, has nothing to do with them because the on / off flagg is set to auto "off" just like it is in all mmo's with this option.
it hurts no one.

We have to look at all the extra war, deal with all the fighting, spells, lag and skill animation that the suggestion would transfer over to us.. how is that not a cost to us, when it is not something we want, neither something that is in line with a ES title

none of those things would happen., you would not be in the same instance as pvp players, you would be in a different shard / server / instance. just like when you complete a certain quest you wont be in the same instance as those who are doing the quest.

Daemons_Bane

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

a toggle on / off open world pvp would not cause any problems nor bother the pve community.
it would fix lagg and help the pvp community, the pve community would not be bothered by this, infact it would make the game better for all of us.
in addition it would also allow the pve community to go into a purely pve cryodiil just as they have been asking for, for many years.

Again, I strongly disagree.. Stop saying that it will be better for all of us.. That is not a fact, yjust your point of view.. Having PvP in the standard zones, WILL bother me

it will decrease lagg for the entire server because cryodiil will be closed.
if seeing pvp happen near you is upsetting then they can simply makes towns unable to have any fight, but we have been asking for that for years already so this would be a win in many ways for many people.
again pve players will be uneffected by a change like this because it will not involve anyone whom has the pvp toggled "off"
i cannot imagine how it could bother anyone for this to happen, those are all positive reactions to an option like this to take place.

You don't KNOW if it will decrease lag right?
Towns are not the only place I run around, so unless you all fight invisibly, that argument is not really useful
When you fight around me, it involves me, even though I do not fight
If you cannot imagine how it can bother me, after reading this thread, then you never will

Gilvoth

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

a toggle on / off open world pvp would not cause any problems nor bother the pve community.
it would fix lagg and help the pvp community, the pve community would not be bothered by this, infact it would make the game better for all of us.
in addition it would also allow the pve community to go into a purely pve cryodiil just as they have been asking for, for many years.

Again, I strongly disagree.. Stop saying that it will be better for all of us.. That is not a fact, yjust your point of view.. Having PvP in the standard zones, WILL bother me

it will decrease lagg for the entire server because cryodiil will be closed.
if seeing pvp happen near you is upsetting then they can simply makes towns unable to have any fight, but we have been asking for that for years already so this would be a win in many ways for many people.
again pve players will be uneffected by a change like this because it will not involve anyone whom has the pvp toggled "off"
i cannot imagine how it could bother anyone for this to happen, those are all positive reactions to an option like this to take place.

You don't KNOW if it will decrease lag right?
Towns are not the only place I run around, so unless you all fight invisibly, that argument is not really useful
When you fight around me, it involves me, even though I do not fight
If you cannot imagine how it can bother me, after reading this thread, then you never will

just to be clear on this.
if you are toggled "off" to pvp then your character will be in a different instance the same as if you have completed a quest thatothers have not yet done.
you will not see us, we wont see you.
the only way we will be merged and see eachother is if you turn on pvp or i turn off pvp flaggs.

Daemons_Bane

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

a toggle on / off open world pvp would not cause any problems nor bother the pve community.
it would fix lagg and help the pvp community, the pve community would not be bothered by this, infact it would make the game better for all of us.
in addition it would also allow the pve community to go into a purely pve cryodiil just as they have been asking for, for many years.

Again, I strongly disagree.. Stop saying that it will be better for all of us.. That is not a fact, yjust your point of view.. Having PvP in the standard zones, WILL bother me

it will decrease lagg for the entire server because cryodiil will be closed.
if seeing pvp happen near you is upsetting then they can simply makes towns unable to have any fight, but we have been asking for that for years already so this would be a win in many ways for many people.
again pve players will be uneffected by a change like this because it will not involve anyone whom has the pvp toggled "off"
i cannot imagine how it could bother anyone for this to happen, those are all positive reactions to an option like this to take place.

You don't KNOW if it will decrease lag right?
Towns are not the only place I run around, so unless you all fight invisibly, that argument is not really useful
When you fight around me, it involves me, even though I do not fight
If you cannot imagine how it can bother me, after reading this thread, then you never will

just to be clear on this.
if you are toggled "off" to pvp then your character will be in a different instance the same as if you have completed a quest thatothers have not yet done.
you will not see us, we wont see you.
the only way we will be merged and see eachother is if you turn on pvp or i turn off pvp flaggs.

So your suggestion is a separate server.. That at least is a better suggestion than what OP suggests.. A separate PVP server is not something I would be against, but I think it would be desolate