Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests

techyeshic

I actually find it fun when all factions show up. Still doesnt eliminate all lag and desync but its playable. I dont think I have seen all 3 pop locked yet though. And I do miss my templar

Diva_Naoko

Flash-Asuna wrote: »

if this goes through bye eso #killpvp #quiteso

If it goes through and pvp is killed as a consequence as the message suggests, this will become a much better game. The reason for this opinion is that, in my experience - several years, let it be noted - pvp is the most toxic and divisive issue in the community. So IMO, no pvp => better ESO. If someone wants to quit for that reason, i'm sorry, sayounara, but i wont miss them.

To keep pvp, ZOS would do better by wholly and completely separating pvp from pve, like for example using separate entry methods to Cyrodiil and IC. eg, pvprs would enter using current campaign method (no change), pvers would enter using wayshrine or (currently closed) land gates and sewerer tunnels leading to pve instance. It would also reduce the pvp population, helping with somewhat better performance and aleviate the lag issue, though not much, I presume. Less pop -> less calculations -> less lag, i guess... But think of the bikering and the bad blood that would suddelnly disappear if they could only implement something as simple as this: pve-only Cyro and IC instances. Imagine one could fish lake Rumare and the Niben Bay, run delves, dailies and anchors all over Cyro without fear of gankers. Only gankers would dislike this, with the sudden absence of easy targets. Real pvprs want to fight someone their size.

And quitting is never the solution (do i really need to always say IM(H)O? Is it not obvious?)... With enough preassure and good reasoning, devs will come to see sense, eventually. They know a divided community is not healthy for the game. Have hope and keep contributing ideas.

NB: written out in full for the benefit of the moderator(s) who couldn't understand the previous version of this message. Concision is an art not everyone can apreciate, sadly. Oh well, we can adapt.

FENGRUSH

Diva_Naoko wrote: »

Flash-Asuna wrote: »

if this goes through bye eso #killpvp #quiteso

If it goes through and pvp is killed as a consequence as the message suggests, this will become a much better game. The reason for this opinion is that, in my experience - several years, let it be noted - pvp is the most toxic and divisive issue in the community. So IMO, no pvp => better ESO. If someone wants to quit for that reason, i'm sorry, sayounara, but i wont miss them.

To keep pvp, ZOS would do better by wholly and completely separating pvp from pve, like for example using separate entry methods to Cyrodiil and IC. eg, pvprs would enter using current campaign method (no change), pvers would enter using wayshrine or (currently closed) land gates and sewerer tunnels leading to pve instance. It would also reduce the pvp population, helping with somewhat better performance and aleviate the lag issue, though not much, I presume. Less pop -> less calculations -> less lag, i guess... But think of the bikering and the bad blood that would suddelnly disappear if they could only implement something as simple as this: pve-only Cyro and IC instances. Imagine one could fish lake Rumare and the Niben Bay, run delves, dailies and anchors all over Cyro without fear of gankers. Only gankers would dislike this, with the sudden absence of easy targets. Real pvprs want to fight someone their size.

And quitting is never the solution (do i really need to always say IM(H)O? Is it not obvious?)... With enough preassure and good reasoning, devs will come to see sense, eventually. They know a divided community is not healthy for the game. Have hope and keep contributing ideas.

NB: written out in full for the benefit of the moderator(s) who couldn't understand the previous version of this message. Concision is an art not everyone can apreciate, sadly. Oh well, we can adapt.

Why do you find pvp to be the most toxic issue in the community?

Sassyuke

These "creative solutions" are indicative of a dying game. This is a shame because when it works, this game is amazing. I do not know of anything out there with comparable lore and combat. My opinion is that ZOS is not willing to invest what it takes to fix the game completely because of other current and future projects so they just keep applying band aids to keep it afloat. Sure, perhaps Elder Scrolls 6 will be amazing, but it will be an RPG. I love the social aspect of this game and although there are toxic members in this community as there are anywhere, I have had many positive experiences with altruistic people. The pvp community is not perpetual rainbows and unicorns, but it is complex, colourful and beautifully dysfunctional. There are more members of opposing factions that would be willing to hold an impromptu joint esraj performance on nik porch than one might think. I am likely pleading on deaf ears, and I am certain this has been said before, but please, fix your game. Alot of us love it and are saddened by the degrading performance. I don't want to leave.

Azurya

shame on ZOS
Gray-host on EU-PC is unplayable
EP is on the whole map 24/7, is no fun going there anymore
if this is what was intended, it sucks
also an way to kill the PvP in ESO

olsborg

Azurya wrote: »

shame on ZOS
Gray-host on EU-PC is unplayable
EP is on the whole map 24/7, is no fun going there anymore
if this is what was intended, it sucks
also an way to kill the PvP in ESO

Indeed.

I roughly estimate that 80% of the active pvp playerbase on gray is EP, 15% is DC and 5% is AD, AD has low pop bonus most of the day and night, wich is nice. Id be fine with it all rly, but what im not fine with is every time you enter combat, skills dont work ,cc break is slow af and lagg just takes completely over and it all becomes RNG, who can get skills off first. So not worth playing.

Joy_Division

Diva_Naoko wrote: »

Flash-Asuna wrote: »

if this goes through bye eso #killpvp #quiteso

With enough preassure and good reasoning, devs will come to see sense, eventually. They know a divided community is not healthy for the game. Have hope and keep contributing ideas.

You must be new here. Welcome to the community. Though you don;t seem to be the welcoming type with your attitude that the game will be better off and improve if those people who have invested 6 years and literally thousands of hours into a game are just left in the garbage dump so the devs can focus on the parts of the game that you happen to prefer.

The_Lex

Joy_Division wrote: »

Diva_Naoko wrote: »

Flash-Asuna wrote: »

if this goes through bye eso #killpvp #quiteso

With enough preassure and good reasoning, devs will come to see sense, eventually. They know a divided community is not healthy for the game. Have hope and keep contributing ideas.

You must be new here. Welcome to the community. Though you don;t seem to be the welcoming type with your attitude that the game will be better off and improve if those people who have invested 6 years and literally thousands of hours into a game are just left in the garbage dump so the devs can focus on the parts of the game that you happen to prefer.

mic drop

Sarousse

Individual cooldown = Cyrodiil unplayable again with triple lock. I'm disconnecting, testing is over for me for this week.

Diva_Naoko

Joy_Division wrote: »

Diva_Naoko wrote: »

Flash-Asuna wrote: »

if this goes through bye eso #killpvp #quiteso

With enough preassure and good reasoning, devs will come to see sense, eventually. They know a divided community is not healthy for the game. Have hope and keep contributing ideas.

You must be new here. Welcome to the community. Though you don;t seem to be the welcoming type with your attitude that the game will be better off and improve if those people who have invested 6 years and literally thousands of hours into a game are just left in the garbage dump so the devs can focus on the parts of the game that you happen to prefer.

LOL, I'm only new to posting in the forum; not to the game, as i made clear in my own post.

Comments like yours and the "drop mic" just after, I have seen them by the thousands in both chat and forum over the years. They are part of the reason i have stayed away from posting until now. I regret the toxocity going about, and i want no part of it.

Why are you pulling the seniority card? We all have thousands of hours invested in the game. This gives none of us special priviledge. Read other's opinions with respect and comment constructively, that's all you should do.

I agree that the game is in a poor state and i can see the issues in pvp concerning the proposed changes. I also worry that the changes will eventually - actually inevitably - spill over to pve and cahnge the whole game at a very deep and impredictable level.

I would surely like to see other solutions being proposed, and not only discussions around the six tests and which of the six is the best. None of them is any good, IMO. They break many play styles and many classes; mostly they seem to encourage a single target tank and gank meta. As I said before, meta is boring. I like diversity.

I surely do have my opinions about how the game could improve, and i am prepared to defend them. Don't you?
As for your accusation, i give you two words: "tu quoque"

My proposal is the total separation between pvp and pve, as in other MMOs with a rich pve content. Nothing would change on the pvp side except the lack of easy targets for gankers. I can see many benefits of that separation, including benefits towards the current discussion about lag in pvp. If you see differently, maybe you could explain what are IYO the benefits of forcing pvers to enter pvp areas where they can be (and are) targeted? I am open to debate. Mic's yours.

Diva_Naoko

Sassyuke wrote: »

These "creative solutions" are indicative of a dying game. This is a shame because when it works, this game is amazing. I do not know of anything out there with comparable lore and combat. My opinion is that ZOS is not willing to invest what it takes to fix the game completely because of other current and future projects so they just keep applying band aids to keep it afloat. Sure, perhaps Elder Scrolls 6 will be amazing, but it will be an RPG. I love the social aspect of this game and although there are toxic members in this community as there are anywhere, I have had many positive experiences with altruistic people. The pvp community is not perpetual rainbows and unicorns, but it is complex, colourful and beautifully dysfunctional. There are more members of opposing factions that would be willing to hold an impromptu joint esraj performance on nik porch than one might think. I am likely pleading on deaf ears, and I am certain this has been said before, but please, fix your game. Alot of us love it and are saddened by the degrading performance. I don't want to leave.

Yes, i very much agree. The game is in very poor condition pve and pvp side and in need of a big overhaul. Wether they will invest in it or not depends on how they see the life cycle of the game going forward. Unfortunanly the proposed changes are purportedly limited to pvp and have that community up in arms. When the changes eventually spill over to pve the boards will be full with the accusations of pvprs always ruining the game for everyone else etc. It's this bickering that we should avoid. Is it so difficult to ask for more solidarity so we could address ZOS with a more unified voice and have them improve life for both the pvp and pve?

I'm itching for TESVI; everyone who loves this lore is, i suppose.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

at the mo iam just annoyied single target that do no aoe at all skills have a cool down

maboleth

So are you happy with these tests?

Now we have a lag AND a cooldown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PoppaVape

Don't even need to look over the wall, just watch the ping to know when the zerg arrives. 3 seconds for skills to fire (if at all), No bar swap for 15 seconds, can't dodge roll.
Everything works fine other than that. So much for test 2. Not sure I can play a week of that.

idk

erio wrote: »

Hey streak is an aoe right? give it double ramp please

Honestly id rather play WITH LAG than with these changes

@erio streak already has a cost ramp up for using it again within 4 seconds. That keeps up increasing the cost until one allows the 4-second debuff to fall off.

techyeshic

Rather than a cooldown on activation, why not a cooldown on application on heals? Would allow to throw a heal but not just spam purge and regen and vigor to stack

Jaimeh

Constant 300-350 ping in Cyrodiil this second week of tests, on off-peak hours to boot. Main campaign empty, I'm solo taking resources, no one's around and ping won't fall below 300... what's going ZOS, it's never been that bad...

Tigor

This second test does not have any effect on the lag, it is the same as before the tests. Ballgroups are playing again on Ravenwatch EU PC, and our pvp skill don't work. The first test was 100% more fun compaired to this test. Looking forward to the next tests.

erio

idk wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Hey streak is an aoe right? give it double ramp please

Honestly id rather play WITH LAG than with these changes

@erio streak already has a cost ramp up for using it again within 4 seconds. That keeps up increasing the cost until one allows the 4-second debuff to fall off.

Wow you didnt understand my joke

CiNNeR

The second week is awfull for me. Huge ping spikes, lag, skills not working (I don't mean the cooldown ofcourse), wrong skills going off, crashes back in loading screen, crashes out of the game, falling out of Cyro. I gave up, hope the next testweek will be better.

merevie

Second week
-necro heals -mostly viable due to having +1 healer in guild group -totally out healed by templars in group though
-magdk -not viable, even with buddies trying to fill the gaps
-stamblade -tanky type- no trouble as usual but felt bad for the enemy sorcs, so stopped playing it
-magwarden -no -terrible experience -resorted to wall siege
-templar heals -surprisingly not that bad -mostly because everyone else also on cooldown so less damage to deal with
-magblade stayed mothballed -still worst class atm
-stamden -viable, but not killing as much

What killed me -apparently a stamblade who could do x3 heavy and x3 abilities in under a second -no I didn't lag -

What didn't -the dizzy swing 1 skill people were helpless and sorcs -ball groups couldn't kill or be killed, apparently

Overall conclusion -if you have a sensible rotation and are not a one-hit skill wonder, week 2 wasn't too bad for stam or necros

Starshadw

merevie wrote: »

What killed me -apparently a stamblade who could do x3 heavy and x3 abilities in under a second -no I didn't lag -

There's not much that can be done about macro-ers except shrug your shoulders.

silver1surfer69

Who would have thought that, all including me were crying their hearts out before and week 1 with Test 1 was quite ok and playable. It even benefited my playstyle and zergs and ballgroups couldnt deal so much damage. And this test 1 reduced lag quite good imo. To recap test 1 was:

- "Test 1 – Shared global AOE cooldown - 3 second timer. This test adds a global 3 second shared cooldown to any AOE
ability. This means that when you cast an AOE, you will not be able to cast another for 3 seconds. For example, as a
Templar, if I cast Ritual of Retribution, I wouldn’t be able to cast Puncturing Sweep for 3 seconds."


So as conclusion: I would rather play without these test condition when there is no/little lag but if its not possible any else i would rather keep the conditions of week 1. It was playable and fun imo. Again close to no/very little lag with no such test conditions would be best and preferable imo, but:

-> i would rather take conditions of week 1 as permanent then it was before with the unplayable lag.



(Oh before i forget i played on my warden which relies heavy on keeping the buffs up and the people cried wardens and templars got hit the most by this test conditions, so this conditions for sure were tough, but it was manageable and playable if you adapt! Im of the opinion that everybody got hit more or less same hard and there are no single groups that are unfairly disadvantaged by this. You need to give it a little time and need to adapt to this, but then its possible and playable. If there is no other possibility to get our cyro back playable then i could manage to learn to live with this conditions.)

Mayrael

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Who would have thought that, all including me were crying their hearts out before and week 1 with Test 1 was quite ok and playable. It even benefited my playstyle and zergs and ballgroups couldnt deal so much damage. And this test 1 reduced lag quite good imo. To recap test 1 was:

- "Test 1 – Shared global AOE cooldown - 3 second timer. This test adds a global 3 second shared cooldown to any AOE
ability. This means that when you cast an AOE, you will not be able to cast another for 3 seconds. For example, as a
Templar, if I cast Ritual of Retribution, I wouldn’t be able to cast Puncturing Sweep for 3 seconds."


So as conclusion: I would rather play without these test condition when there is no/little lag but if its not possible any else i would rather keep the conditions of week 1. It was playable and fun imo. Again close to no/very little lag with no such test conditions would be best and preferable imo, but:

-> i would rather take conditions of week 1 as permanent then it was before with the unplayable lag.



(Oh before i forget i played on my warden which relies heavy on keeping the buffs up and the people cried wardens and templars got hit the most by this test conditions, so this conditions for sure were tough, but it was manageable and playable if you adapt! Im of the opinion that everybody got hit more or less same hard and there are no single groups that are unfairly disadvantaged by this. You need to give it a little time and need to adapt to this, but then its possible and playable. If there is no other possibility to get our cyro back playable then i could manage to learn to live with this conditions.)

Week 1 was best because it was during IC celebration event, most PvPers were in IC not in Cyro.

Finedaible

wills43b14_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, I'm skeptical of the interpretation of the results of these tests. From a statistical point of view in an uncontrolled setting (correlation is not causation!), the effects of each of these tests will likely be confounded with a drop in the population (or at least, potentially, a certain sub-category of the population theorized to cause these problems). Even worse, there might be an interaction to where the results from the test and probably loss of players/ball groups will have an almost "magical" effect on the performance (however this is measured).

Tl;dr: All I'd like to say is, be wary of interpreting the results without FULLY understanding the background of what led to them... in uncontrolled experiments correlation is NOT causation!

This is what worries me most about these tests. I am glad they are doing the group size limitation tests like players suggested, but I really worry about how they will draw their conclusions from the collected data.

Tammany

Weeks 1-2 are gone and now lag is up and everyone is spamming bombards/spintowins
Almost forgot how trashy pvp has been before these tests

Joy_Division

Feedback: Week #3 (scaling cost from casting any AoE ability) is so terrible it actually made me wish for Week #2 (3 second sklll cooldown) which was merely want to throw my computer out the window frustrating.

I really hope ZOS is getting some actual useful data (and, by the way, it would be nice to communicate that to us) because many of us are basically paying ZoS $27.50 for being guinea pigs as opposed to playing the actual product that was purchased.

DUTCH_REAPER

lol @Joy_Division
ZOS Ill take mines in 10s and 20s please

techyeshic

I think this is the worst test yet. I havent noticed much telling me what abilities are on a ramping cost cooldown and the lag is so bad; the mashing of buttons to hope it finally goes off, then you get 2 and just spent 10k resources for a single buff

Demonhunter

It's amazing to me when people say that Cyrodiil is un playable they assume it's on all the servers, servers like blackreach for me never lags probably because it's never population capped on all faction?

It seems to me Grey Host lags because the performance issue had to do with the number of people online playing in roughly the same area where thousands of calculations have to be computed by the server from player abilities.

And off course, Grey Host is more popular because it's alliance locked and the guilds want to prove their bragging rights that their faction kicks ass.