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Grim Focus Change Is Bad

  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    did you not just read my post..... argue with that instead of these hollow statements my god.
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    the 10% damage mitigation actually completely fits how our class works in the "assassin" style of play. the crit damage and crit healing does not at all whatsoever.
  • kalunte
    kalunte
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    voicing is free. you have your own pov, respect other's pov.

    beside that i agree with you that 10% mitigation was great for some playstyle and allowed more flexibility, still if 10% crit dmg isnt needed to kill, an average 5% dmg reduction shouldnt hurt your health that much, even more if you consider the spectral bow proc as one of your main heal as a stam. it's a tool, nothing you can seriously rely on considering movement/range issue and that the stam morph is healing for less than the magicka morph (which heal should be considered OP if the stam morph's heal was even just "decent").

    be consistant at least.
  • sabresandiego_ESO
    sabresandiego_ESO
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    They should consider adding the 10% mitigation back for the duration of dark cloak so that NBs aren’t absolutely forced to be a sneaky assassin type but can be brawlers by giving up the ability to go invisible.

    It’ll still be a nerf compared to having 10% mitigation at all times.
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • kalunte
    kalunte
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    there is already minor prot on dark cloak...
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    I like it adds to class identity nb isn’t suppose to be tanky
  • sabresandiego_ESO
    sabresandiego_ESO
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    kalunte wrote: »
    there is already minor prot on dark cloak...

    That’s correct, dark cloak would give minor protection and 10% mitigation. NB’s lost 10% mitigation from relentless. They should be able to get it back somewhere, but it should have a big opportunity cost.

    Not being able to go invisible and only having a limited duration is perfect and that’s what happens if you put it on dark cloak. It would make it a very tough choice deciding between the two options, because invisibility is incredibly powerful and equals 100% mitigation if you’re not revealed.

    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 27, 2020 6:24PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • kojou
    kojou
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    I think the issue is that you have a different vision/opinion of what Nightblade should be than others who are posting... Your opinion is that mitigation is better for your play-style, others prefer more damage for theirs. Its not a matter of being wrong or right it is just different opinions.

    Also, you are looking at this completely from a Stamina PvP lens where there are a lot of people play PvE DPS and this is a damage buff if you are playing PvE DPS. If you are playing Magicka Nightblade and have access to more heals then the healing buff adds up to a good buff as well.

    In summary the Grim Focus change is less optimal for your play-style, but it is good for a lot of others. I'm sure the developers will look at it again next patch if they think Nightblades are still underused as a class...
    Edited by kojou on July 27, 2020 6:26PM
    Playing since beta...
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    kojou wrote: »
    I agree with the sentiment that the change with Grim Focus are more inline with what I feel a Nightblade should be. This should be an offensive kill or be killed assassin class, not a heal class, not an attrition class, etc.

    The lack of burst healing should be offset by the ability to kill your opponent in a burst of damage before they kill you.

    I could write pages about all the changes that ruined Magicka Nightblade and sent me to play my Templar instead, but it seems like at least this one is getting addressed.

    Nb has been healing and engaging in attrition since it's very inception In this game. Nb is not exclusively a high damage stealth based assassin class and never has been ONLY that.. That is simply one option. The siphoning skill line alone is enough to make this point clear. Magblades used to be great ranged, kiting casters in pvp with hot / dot pressure and did not require shadowy disguise.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    I like it adds to class identity nb isn’t suppose to be tanky

    Says who?
  • sabresandiego_ESO
    sabresandiego_ESO
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    I do think that losing the 10% mitigation with no way to get it back does make NBs overly reliant on invisibility and the stealthy archetype and makes the brawler archetype far inferior to other stam classes.

    I don’t think the mitigation should be given back passively as that would be way overpowered considering the NB damage buffs. I think giving it back conditional on dark cloak, where you’re giving up invisibility and also only have a short duration Is the way to go.

    That will make dark cloak an incredibly good skill (providing both minor prot and 10% mitigation) but it’s balanced by the fact that you can’t go invisible: which is one of the hallmarks of the NB class. Invisibility is 100% mitigation unless revealed.
    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 27, 2020 6:41PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • kalunte
    kalunte
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    kalunte wrote: »
    there is already minor prot on dark cloak...

    That’s correct, dark cloak would give minor protection and 10% mitigation. NB’s lost 10% mitigation from relentless. They should be able to get it back somewhere, but it should have a big opportunity cost.

    Not being able to go invisible and only having a limited duration is perfect and that’s what happens if you put it on dark cloak. It would make it a very tough choice deciding between the two options, because invisibility is incredibly powerful and equals 100% mitigation if you’re not revealed.

    there is an ability to fit the brawly playstyle called blur to help in close range fights. it is 25% reduction, works for mags, stams and tanks. yes it is an extra slot but nightblades are not in need of more mitigation and never have been.

    i remember when ZoS decided to put some mitigation instead of dmg there wasnt so many to find it good and now after it has been nerfed by 33% of what it was at elsweyr release we find ppl that wants to make us believe it is mandatory.. LOL.

  • JinxxND
    JinxxND
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    kalunte wrote: »
    there is already minor prot on dark cloak...

    That’s correct, dark cloak would give minor protection and 10% mitigation. NB’s lost 10% mitigation from relentless. They should be able to get it back somewhere, but it should have a big opportunity cost.

    Not being able to go invisible and only having a limited duration is perfect and that’s what happens if you put it on dark cloak. It would make it a very tough choice deciding between the two options, because invisibility is incredibly powerful and equals 100% mitigation if you’re not revealed.

    This and extending the base duration of shadow barrier to match the skill would be a good change cause right now your armor buff drops before the skill dark cloak does unless you wear at minimum 2p of heavy armor which is bad for 5-1-1 setups 6-1 and 7 setups which affects both mag and stam in light and medium
    Edited by JinxxND on July 27, 2020 6:43PM
    PC NA -
    'Jinxx - Nightblade
    'Jinxx X Necromancer
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    I appreciate the response but pvp and stamina isn't the only part of the class.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    I appreciate the response but pvp and stamina isn't the only part of the class.

    dude there is a stamina and magicka morph. they can be made separate in this regard.
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    kojou wrote: »
    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    I think the issue is that you have a different vision/opinion of what Nightblade should be than others who are posting... Your opinion is that mitigation is better for your play-style, others prefer more damage for theirs. Its not a matter of being wrong or right it is just different opinions.

    Also, you are looking at this completely from a Stamina PvP lens where there are a lot of people play PvE DPS and this is a damage buff if you are playing PvE DPS. If you are playing Magicka Nightblade and have access to more heals then the healing buff adds up to a good buff as well.

    In summary the Grim Focus change is less optimal for your play-style, but it is good for a lot of others. I'm sure the developers will look at it again next patch if they think Nightblades are still underused as a class...

    the play style i am mentioning is the play style of all top 1vX nightblades. it is literally how you are supposed to play nightblade unless youre playing a gankblade which is shameful. even dark cloak blades play in this same play style. it is very universal unless you are bad at the game or a casual. the fact that you don't know this sheds weight from your opinion.

    edit: on the pve side of things, this change hurts tankblades a lot though buffs dps stamblades. it is still hardcore limiting the flexibility of the class.
    Edited by nublife01 on July 28, 2020 4:55PM
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    I do think that losing the 10% mitigation with no way to get it back does make NBs overly reliant on invisibility and the stealthy archetype and makes the brawler archetype far inferior to other stam classes.

    I don’t think the mitigation should be given back passively as that would be way overpowered considering the NB damage buffs. I think giving it back conditional on dark cloak, where you’re giving up invisibility and also only have a short duration Is the way to go.

    That will make dark cloak an incredibly good skill (providing both minor prot and 10% mitigation) but it’s balanced by the fact that you can’t go invisible: which is one of the hallmarks of the NB class. Invisibility is 100% mitigation unless revealed.

    I think youre looking strictly at the class rather than the other classes that nightblade will have to be balanced with. Right now our biggest struggle is dot classes that abuse malacath--in particular magDK. Most of the proc sets are dot proc sets on the pts. Those sets will be combined with malacath. Crit healing on vigor will not save us from those dot proc malacath builds. Basically what is going to happen is we are going to be forced into using shadowy disguise to negate dot damage and will be forced into strictly one play style again especially with the nerf to NMA. Dark cloak builds will go extinct.

    I don't understand how none of you realize how god awful this change is. Have any of you tested this change on the PTS? I have and it is a huge blow to our mitigation. Like a massive blow.
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    kalunte wrote: »
    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    voicing is free. you have your own pov, respect other's pov.

    beside that i agree with you that 10% mitigation was great for some playstyle and allowed more flexibility, still if 10% crit dmg isnt needed to kill, an average 5% dmg reduction shouldnt hurt your health that much, even more if you consider the spectral bow proc as one of your main heal as a stam. it's a tool, nothing you can seriously rely on considering movement/range issue and that the stam morph is healing for less than the magicka morph (which heal should be considered OP if the stam morph's heal was even just "decent").

    be consistant at least.

    actually if you play the class correctly in pvp you will always have that 10% mitigation up when you engage someone and take damage not just 5%. It's more like a 90-10 or 80-20 uptime on 10% mitigation like you are utterly wrong about that. and our class naturally has always had naturally high kill damage relative to tankyness. it is literally built into the classes passives. this is also a huge reason you see gankers run nightblade more than any other class. the 10% mitigation leveled us out so that more than just cloaky ganky play style can be adopted with the class. these changes will literally force us into solely a ganky playstyle again. theyre extremely ignorant changes. and im talking strictly about stamblade in my opinions. that is why im stating "grim focus" as opposed to the other morph. it's a fat nerf for stamblade.

    also i mentioned that the heal from grim focus and rally on stamblade is more than enough and the 10% crit healing really only benefits previgoring a fight which really isnt much of benefit at all.

    your response does not make much sense other than that.
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    It is all about class identity. Since a movement speed buff on a tiny stationary aoe and a heal skill that can kill yourself were not enough to solidify a nb's identity as "class with conflicting skills" we now also get a dmg buff that is lost when we try to burst our opponent. Because you know, ZOS is listening to their players ...
    Edited by Rianai on July 28, 2020 4:52PM
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    if you have a stamblade i highly suggest you all test our survivability on the PTS. i have done this. this is where i am formulating my opinions from. especially try dueling someone with a dark cloak set up and a shadowy disguise set up. let me know how much you find yourself resorting to a much more shadowy disguise reliant play style.

    honestly all of these changes including the proc suck. this current patch (other than malacath abusing OP classes such as MagDK) has literally been the most balanced patch ive seen in this game since i dont know how long. and next patch will repeat the cycle of a balanced patch heading into a proc meta patch which then goes to an eternal tank meta patch(s) before the game becomes balanced again. at least they fixed caluurions legacy smh.
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    Rianai wrote: »
    It is all about class identity. Since a movement speed buff on a tiny stationary aoe and a heal skill that can kill yourself were not enough to solidify a nb's identity as "class with conflicting skills" we now also get a dmg buff that is lost when we try to burst our opponent. Because you know, ZOS is listening to their players ...

    exactly. complete wtf moment when i read the change. whoever made this change to nightblade simply does not understand the class whatsoever.
  • killingspreeb16_ESO
    killingspreeb16_ESO
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    Gotta agree the 10% damage reduction was much better for the class overall.

    Stamina NB dmg is alredy fine,the extra healing from crit will change nothing in term of survivability.
    If you want you can add the fact that master assassin no longer increase our weapon dmg in cloak so it's a nerf for gankers aswell and it does impact our healing a bit while in cloack not much but still.

    On mageblade the 10% dmg reduction is simply much better for both morph of cloack builds imo.

    While i can agree that dmg buff on a skill on the assassin skill line make more sense it does not help the class overall.
    Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on July 28, 2020 11:14PM
  • WiredandTired
    WiredandTired
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    This is a good buff for Nightblade PvE DPS, crit and crit dmg is king. Along with the change to the shadow mundus, building into crit healing for PvE might be something new and unique, where a healer builds Grim Focus and holds it to boost their heals.

    PvP I'm in agreement with those saying this is bad. As both a nightblade main and fighting against nightblades, the 10% mitigation gives you the necessary breathing room when you're caught in a bad position. Most Nightblades including myself have already relied upon having that mitigation there to live long enough to get the kill. I feel its already fairly easy to pressure and eventually kill an average nightblade player.

    Nublife01 has already broken down the stamblade perspective. I'll try to point out the magblade perspective. if you look at any of the non-caalurion non gank builds, the whole gameplay revolves around HoTs, shade resets, shields, and maybe shadowy to live long enough in order to execute fear, soul harvest/incap/flame clench, bow proc. You're hoping they're slow to break free or their stamina is depleted so they can't break CC to avoid the combo. Most of these builds were doing a combination of running heavy armor, sustain, stacking magicka, stacking armor, and choosing defensive monster sets. Pretty sure 10% loss of mitigation plus the healing nerf from greymoor would further weaken those builds. Magblade's entire kit is dodgeable so it has no choice but to outlast to get kills.

    TLDR, If they go ahead with this change, at least move the mitigation to shadowy disguise or shade. Crit dmg is also less of a buff with the base impen stat buff and most folks are already stacking 2-3k crit resist anyways. Crit healing on a 60% nerf on battle spirit is also not impressive for a class with no reliable burst heal aside from the bow proc itself which doesn't benefit from the buff. I will admit I have not tested HoTs and crit healing on PTS, but when you have dark cloak ticking for 800, I don't imagine a 10% crit healing buff will be meaningful on HoTs in PVP for magblade or stamblade.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    kojou wrote: »
    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

    10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

    First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

    the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

    so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    edited for clarity and less toxicity

    I think the issue is that you have a different vision/opinion of what Nightblade should be than others who are posting... Your opinion is that mitigation is better for your play-style, others prefer more damage for theirs. Its not a matter of being wrong or right it is just different opinions.

    Also, you are looking at this completely from a Stamina PvP lens where there are a lot of people play PvE DPS and this is a damage buff if you are playing PvE DPS. If you are playing Magicka Nightblade and have access to more heals then the healing buff adds up to a good buff as well.

    In summary the Grim Focus change is less optimal for your play-style, but it is good for a lot of others. I'm sure the developers will look at it again next patch if they think Nightblades are still underused as a class...

    Sorry, but it's not free dmg as the old GF that granted minor berserk on cast, you have to work the dmg through stacks. That puts you in a weird position where you have to get the stacks asap with a subpar dmg and no mitigation. In PvP at least that's hard to achieve.

    Besides, assa will acts as the execute for mageblades and it won't hit with the extra crit dmg, so mageblades are in a position in which they have to use a subpar bursting attack or keep the stacks for "sustained" dmg (that still works on a random based mechanic since it must crit, and if it fails is a waste of work).

    Sure, for healers looks good, but a skill in the assassination tree that must be used on healers to get better heals... IDK... sounds like real BS
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    Rianai wrote: »
    It is all about class identity. Since a movement speed buff on a tiny stationary aoe and a heal skill that can kill yourself were not enough to solidify a nb's identity as "class with conflicting skills" we now also get a dmg buff that is lost when we try to burst our opponent. Because you know, ZOS is listening to their players ...

    exactly. complete wtf moment when i read the change. whoever made this change to nightblade simply does not understand the class whatsoever.

    I don't disagree that Nightblades need better survivability, Grim Focus isn't the way to go about it. It should be by the means of Dark Cloak which could use some love.
    Edited by Strider__Roshin on July 29, 2020 1:50AM
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    It moreso reminds me of when ABILITIES were powerful instead of procs.

    I’d like to see many class skills given back their former strength and sets made a much less important factor to PvP combat.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Mass Hysteria should get Minor Maim from Shade, and Shade should get 10% damage mitigation in it's place. Problem solved.
    Edited by Langeston on July 29, 2020 2:51AM
  • WiredandTired
    WiredandTired
    ✭✭
    Vaoh wrote: »
    It moreso reminds me of when ABILITIES were powerful instead of procs.

    I’d like to see many class skills given back their former strength and sets made a much less important factor to PvP combat.

    I agree with you, I have caalurion and zaan, but I would rather much have strong class tools to rely on.
  • Kittytravel
    Kittytravel
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    1. Maybe they meant more in reference to the "thematic" of a skill line. It's literally the equivalent if "Restoring Light" line from Templars had damaging skills that didn't heal. Why the heck is it in a line called "Restoring Light" then?
    2. The game doesn't revolve around PvP sorry to break it to you; the 10% crit damage increase will help Stamblades a lot in PvE content. PvP has been an afterthought for ZOS for years now.
    3. You have to be the first person I've ever seen call Vigor the "weakest heal" on a Nightblade. But please enlighten me on whatever heal you're using that makes vigor the "weakest" option.
    4. One of your main arguments is some garbage about getting AoE nuked which wow look at that is being worked on https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1
    nublife01 wrote: »
    all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    Apparently neither do you or ZOS would have likely hired you to develop the class by now.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    ✭✭
    nublife01 wrote: »
    It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

    dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

    1. Maybe they meant more in reference to the "thematic" of a skill line. It's literally the equivalent if "Restoring Light" line from Templars had damaging skills that didn't heal. Why the heck is it in a line called "Restoring Light" then?
    2. The game doesn't revolve around PvP sorry to break it to you; the 10% crit damage increase will help Stamblades a lot in PvE content. PvP has been an afterthought for ZOS for years now.
    3. You have to be the first person I've ever seen call Vigor the "weakest heal" on a Nightblade. But please enlighten me on whatever heal you're using that makes vigor the "weakest" option.
    4. One of your main arguments is some garbage about getting AoE nuked which wow look at that is being worked on https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1
    nublife01 wrote: »
    all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

    Apparently neither do you or ZOS would have likely hired you to develop the class by now.

    That part, although it should be ideally dealt that way, is not true. ZoS has repeated a thousand times that ESO is one game and not 2 divided into PvP and PvE. Such a powerful skill as assa will, a class defining skill, should not be considered only for one aspect of the game, but both aspects (PVP and PvE)

    In fact, minor berserk was the perfectly balanced buff, helping with sustained dmg in PvE and burst dmg in PvP... then ZoS "fixed" it
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
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