Grim Focus Change Is Bad

nublife01

The change to grim focus from 10% reduced damage to 10% crit damage is going to heavily hurt the well roundedness of the class. I really think this should be reconsidered.

SilverKatz

Agree. it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

It gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff, 4 functions from 1 skill only ! I dont think there is another skill providing the same amount of benifit in other classes.

The excuse for dev to nerf SnB skill line - Lower slash and both morphs is " these skills provide 3 different functions ,damage , snare and ulti regen / Aoe dmg ."

Now there is a skill offering 4.

Lughlongarm

New grim focus is 10% crit damage AND 10% crit healing.

I think that the stamina morph should stay with the mitigation while the Magicka morph will get the Crit damage and healing.

ESO_Nightingale

i like it. really adds to class identity

stefj68

loosing the damage mitigation on nb tank is painfull

ankeor

Tbh even tho the damage mit buff was nice, it never made sense to have such buff in this skill.
I have both stam and mag nb dps as well as nb tank.
I think it is better to move a damage mit buff like that or something similar to shadow skill line skill or a passive.

Tommy_The_Gun

- ZOS removes Minor Berserk from Grim Focus (+8% Damage) in a (in)famous Elsweyr update.
- One update later they Give Grim Focus up to 10% damage reduction (2% per stack).
- Later on, they remove 10% damage reduction, and once again they add dmg focused bonus - 10% crit damage/healing.

Is it just me, or it look like they have not clue what they are doing, nor any vision of the NB class ?
This seems so chaotic...

SilverKatz wrote: »

it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

I disagree.
1. You have to gather the stacks to begin with.
2. Stack are removed in PvP zone when Grim Focus ends (so you can not enter delve, gather stack, exit & wait for some one to show up).
3. Spectral Bow does not take the benefit of + %10 boost as the bonus is gone the moment you fire the bow (lose stacks).

So for ganking / bombing this would not work, or will be extremely tricky/impossible to pull of at best. In current meta, playing NB that relies on invisibility is quite hard as there is HUGE number of counters to cloak. This kind of play-style works pretty much only in MYM event as there are plenty of non-pvp players that don't know how to counter invisibility.

The other play-style is brawler NB that uses Dark Cloak (healing morph) and losing 10% dmg reduction is a huge nerf for that play-style. Dmg reduction is way better than %10 crit bonus.

Edit:
Oh, I almost forgot. NB's Ambush used to have different affect on players and different on mobs/npcs. NPCs were stunned, while players got snared. Later on they removed the snares. Shortly after stuns too - saying that ability should work same in pvp & pve. Now, Grim Focus will keep stacks in PvE, and lose stacks in PvP - meaning that we are going back to ability behaving differently on players & NPCs / mobs...

thankyourat

SilverKatz wrote: »

Agree. it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

It gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff, 4 functions from 1 skill only ! I dont think there is another skill providing the same amount of benifit in other classes.

The excuse for dev to nerf SnB skill line - Lower slash and both morphs is " these skills provide 3 different functions ,damage , snare and ulti regen / Aoe dmg ."

Now there is a skill offering 4.

Magblade’s offensive skills need to be overloaded though because it lacks the most important ability in pvp which is a burst heal. There is nothing that can compare to getting a large chunk of your health back in one global cool down. To make up for this lack of healing magblade needs overloaded offensive skills. That’s why the standardization of classes hurt magblade so much. They brought all of magblades offensive skills in line with the other classes while not bringing magblade healing up to the other classes.

JinxxND

thankyourat wrote: »

SilverKatz wrote: »

Agree. it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

It gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff, 4 functions from 1 skill only ! I dont think there is another skill providing the same amount of benifit in other classes.

The excuse for dev to nerf SnB skill line - Lower slash and both morphs is " these skills provide 3 different functions ,damage , snare and ulti regen / Aoe dmg ."

Now there is a skill offering 4.

Magblade’s offensive skills need to be overloaded though because it lacks the most important ability in pvp which is a burst heal. There is nothing that can compare to getting a large chunk of your health back in one global cool down. To make up for this lack of healing magblade needs overloaded offensive skills. That’s why the standardization of classes hurt magblade so much. They brought all of magblades offensive skills in line with the other classes while not bringing magblade healing up to the other classes.

I'm glad someone here actually understand how the class works. Nb was hurt on both sides with this standardization from the skill audit, I do think that the class shouldn't have access to a burst heal as a mobility potential stealth class (yet magsorc has a huge burst heal with it's pet and mobility so I digress) but should give it a lot more HoT power since it already has the ability to reset the fight and dark cloak nb should be rewarded with extra healing power for giving up the ability to reset fights like a cloaker does

Nemesis7884

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i like it. really adds to class identity

fully agree, like it much better then current

nublife01

thankyourat wrote: »

SilverKatz wrote: »

Agree. it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

It gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff, 4 functions from 1 skill only ! I dont think there is another skill providing the same amount of benifit in other classes.

The excuse for dev to nerf SnB skill line - Lower slash and both morphs is " these skills provide 3 different functions ,damage , snare and ulti regen / Aoe dmg ."

Now there is a skill offering 4.

Magblade’s offensive skills need to be overloaded though because it lacks the most important ability in pvp which is a burst heal. There is nothing that can compare to getting a large chunk of your health back in one global cool down. To make up for this lack of healing magblade needs overloaded offensive skills. That’s why the standardization of classes hurt magblade so much. They brought all of magblades offensive skills in line with the other classes while not bringing magblade healing up to the other classes.

i believe theyre fixing this with the change to your spammable in the pts. still though this grim focus change may to make dark cloak nightblade non viable next patch so that we're forced back into shadowy disguise which would really suck considering there are finally dark cloak builds viable this patch.

kojou

I agree with the sentiment that the change with Grim Focus are more inline with what I feel a Nightblade should be. This should be an offensive kill or be killed assassin class, not a heal class, not an attrition class, etc.

The lack of burst healing should be offset by the ability to kill your opponent in a burst of damage before they kill you.

I could write pages about all the changes that ruined Magicka Nightblade and sent me to play my Templar instead, but it seems like at least this one is getting addressed.

Celestro

Yeah, NB's had Minor Berserk for the longest time, then it was removed to implemented the damage reduction, which honestly made no sense from being an assassin oriented class that emphasizes burst damage. Hell a skill that has both damage and mitigation rolled up into one just sounded weird when the change was first made. If anything, they're returning to some semblance of their previous state, even if newly established builds taking advantage of the mitigation effect will suffer as a result.

As suggested, that couldve just been applied to the Shadow skill line in some way or another.

Onefrkncrzypope

I want to draw on another buzzphrase that ZoS uses: the story of the skill...

In my opinion, the origin of this skill was to reward light attack weaving. This new buff feels like it muddies that story. At least the damage reduction buff was a trade choice. Burst or mitigate. This feels punishing to use and not use the skill.

nublife01

.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

The only bad thing about it is that the 10% crit damage doesn't carry over to the bow proc. Guess we can't have our cake and eat it too lol.

Finedaible

Turning a skill which is literally called "Assassin's Will" into a tanking/mitigation skill could not have been any more anti-thematic, so i think the change is good. However, they still need to fix the projectile so that it benefits from the critical bonus, then it will be pretty fair in my opinion. I will miss that mitigation in pvp but hopefully they have the sense to give some mitigation utility back into the Siphoning or Shadow lines instead. There are still MANY aspects to the Nightblade class they have to improve in my opinion, but i feel this is finally the first right decision in over a year (IF they fix the projectile issue).

Vermintide

Honestly would prefer it if they just admit a mistake once in a while and put it back to having Minor Berserk. No need for separate crit damage and healing bonus then- On magblade, more damage = more healing.

Frankly I think that's how they should focus the class. Mag and stam NB should have distinct identity: Stam NB already competently fulfils the the traditional high burst assassin archetype, who kills swiftly and then vanishes untouched. I've always felt mag NB leans more towards more of a life-leeching death mage, who takes longer to secure a kill but dances in rings around the enemy as he does.

If I was designing the class I'd set up skills like Mark to apply life steal, so they can stack siphoning attacks, swallow soul etc on top of one another for constant self-healing instead of needing a burst heal or three Resto Staff skills. I'd also re-work the mobility somehow. Even though it has gap closers and speed buffs, right now it struggles to find space to slot them. The playstyle should be that as long as you maintain offensive pressure and use your mobility tools, you stay alive; but the moment you make a mistake and get stuck in a stun, you're in trouble. It's rewarding and feels powerful, while still having obvious, logical counter-play.

Basically that's how it used to be a few years ago, anyway, but apparently ZOS hates classes feeling unique and being fun.

silky_soft

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

- ZOS removes Minor Berserk from Grim Focus (+8% Damage) in a (in)famous Elsweyr update.
- One update later they Give Grim Focus up to 10% damage reduction (2% per stack).
- Later on, they remove 10% damage reduction, and once again they add dmg focused bonus - 10% crit damage/healing.

Is it just me, or it look like they have not clue what they are doing, nor any vision of the NB class ?
This seems so chaotic...

SilverKatz wrote: »

it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

I disagree.
1. You have to gather the stacks to begin with.
2. Stack are removed in PvP zone when Grim Focus ends (so you can not enter delve, gather stack, exit & wait for some one to show up).
3. Spectral Bow does not take the benefit of + %10 boost as the bonus is gone the moment you fire the bow (lose stacks).

So for ganking / bombing this would not work, or will be extremely tricky/impossible to pull of at best. In current meta, playing NB that relies on invisibility is quite hard as there is HUGE number of counters to cloak. This kind of play-style works pretty much only in MYM event as there are plenty of non-pvp players that don't know how to counter invisibility.

The other play-style is brawler NB that uses Dark Cloak (healing morph) and losing 10% dmg reduction is a huge nerf for that play-style. Dmg reduction is way better than %10 crit bonus.

Just slot birds of prey, you get minor zerk at no cost or timer.

Mayrael

silky_soft wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

- ZOS removes Minor Berserk from Grim Focus (+8% Damage) in a (in)famous Elsweyr update.
- One update later they Give Grim Focus up to 10% damage reduction (2% per stack).
- Later on, they remove 10% damage reduction, and once again they add dmg focused bonus - 10% crit damage/healing.

Is it just me, or it look like they have not clue what they are doing, nor any vision of the NB class ?
This seems so chaotic...

SilverKatz wrote: »

it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

I disagree.
1. You have to gather the stacks to begin with.
2. Stack are removed in PvP zone when Grim Focus ends (so you can not enter delve, gather stack, exit & wait for some one to show up).
3. Spectral Bow does not take the benefit of + %10 boost as the bonus is gone the moment you fire the bow (lose stacks).

So for ganking / bombing this would not work, or will be extremely tricky/impossible to pull of at best. In current meta, playing NB that relies on invisibility is quite hard as there is HUGE number of counters to cloak. This kind of play-style works pretty much only in MYM event as there are plenty of non-pvp players that don't know how to counter invisibility.

The other play-style is brawler NB that uses Dark Cloak (healing morph) and losing 10% dmg reduction is a huge nerf for that play-style. Dmg reduction is way better than %10 crit bonus.

Just slot birds of prey, you get minor zerk at no cost or timer.

I think you have skipped the part that says this thread is about NBs not Wardens

Ragnaroek93

Good change because it indirectly nerfs proc setups which are meta right now. Also more damage fits the theme of an assassin class better.

Playboy_Shrek

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Good change because it indirectly nerfs proc setups which are meta right now. Also more damage fits the theme of an assassin class better.

proc sets are not meta. besides relequen. and monster sets are proc sets by nature.

silky_soft

Mayrael wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

- ZOS removes Minor Berserk from Grim Focus (+8% Damage) in a (in)famous Elsweyr update.
- One update later they Give Grim Focus up to 10% damage reduction (2% per stack).
- Later on, they remove 10% damage reduction, and once again they add dmg focused bonus - 10% crit damage/healing.

Is it just me, or it look like they have not clue what they are doing, nor any vision of the NB class ?
This seems so chaotic...

SilverKatz wrote: »

it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

I disagree.
1. You have to gather the stacks to begin with.
2. Stack are removed in PvP zone when Grim Focus ends (so you can not enter delve, gather stack, exit & wait for some one to show up).
3. Spectral Bow does not take the benefit of + %10 boost as the bonus is gone the moment you fire the bow (lose stacks).

So for ganking / bombing this would not work, or will be extremely tricky/impossible to pull of at best. In current meta, playing NB that relies on invisibility is quite hard as there is HUGE number of counters to cloak. This kind of play-style works pretty much only in MYM event as there are plenty of non-pvp players that don't know how to counter invisibility.

The other play-style is brawler NB that uses Dark Cloak (healing morph) and losing 10% dmg reduction is a huge nerf for that play-style. Dmg reduction is way better than %10 crit bonus.

Just slot birds of prey, you get minor zerk at no cost or timer.

I think you have skipped the part that says this thread is about NBs not Wardens

If english is you first language, that went straight over your head.

JayKwellen

nublife01 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

SilverKatz wrote: »

Agree. it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

It gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff, 4 functions from 1 skill only ! I dont think there is another skill providing the same amount of benifit in other classes.

The excuse for dev to nerf SnB skill line - Lower slash and both morphs is " these skills provide 3 different functions ,damage , snare and ulti regen / Aoe dmg ."

Now there is a skill offering 4.

Magblade’s offensive skills need to be overloaded though because it lacks the most important ability in pvp which is a burst heal. There is nothing that can compare to getting a large chunk of your health back in one global cool down. To make up for this lack of healing magblade needs overloaded offensive skills. That’s why the standardization of classes hurt magblade so much. They brought all of magblades offensive skills in line with the other classes while not bringing magblade healing up to the other classes.

i believe theyre fixing this with the change to your spammable in the pts. still though this grim focus change may to make dark cloak nightblade non viable next patch so that we're forced back into shadowy disguise which would really suck considering there are finally dark cloak builds viable this patch.

@nublife01 It actually appears this isn't the case. It seems ZOS buffed the funnel health morph, and the base ability itself for some reason, but specifically didn't change swallow soul.

Ragnaroek93

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Good change because it indirectly nerfs proc setups which are meta right now. Also more damage fits the theme of an assassin class better.

proc sets are not meta. besides relequen. and monster sets are proc sets by nature.

Talking about PvP.

Mayrael

silky_soft wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

- ZOS removes Minor Berserk from Grim Focus (+8% Damage) in a (in)famous Elsweyr update.
- One update later they Give Grim Focus up to 10% damage reduction (2% per stack).
- Later on, they remove 10% damage reduction, and once again they add dmg focused bonus - 10% crit damage/healing.

Is it just me, or it look like they have not clue what they are doing, nor any vision of the NB class ?
This seems so chaotic...

SilverKatz wrote: »

it makes a strong pvp class into the most op one.

I disagree.
1. You have to gather the stacks to begin with.
2. Stack are removed in PvP zone when Grim Focus ends (so you can not enter delve, gather stack, exit & wait for some one to show up).
3. Spectral Bow does not take the benefit of + %10 boost as the bonus is gone the moment you fire the bow (lose stacks).

So for ganking / bombing this would not work, or will be extremely tricky/impossible to pull of at best. In current meta, playing NB that relies on invisibility is quite hard as there is HUGE number of counters to cloak. This kind of play-style works pretty much only in MYM event as there are plenty of non-pvp players that don't know how to counter invisibility.

The other play-style is brawler NB that uses Dark Cloak (healing morph) and losing 10% dmg reduction is a huge nerf for that play-style. Dmg reduction is way better than %10 crit bonus.

Just slot birds of prey, you get minor zerk at no cost or timer.

I think you have skipped the part that says this thread is about NBs not Wardens

If english is you first language, that went straight over your head.

Read my signature

Jodynn

It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

kalunte

this change is great. this is a dmg skill in a dmg oriented skill line. there are other ways to get some mitigation than slotting a dmg skill..

nublife01

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

It's a nice change for night blade since they're assassins it's fits them perfectly.. some other classes need buffing though to keep in line with this change and not be abjectly weaker in comparison.

dude i have heard this "oh it fits the assassin perfectly" garbage so much. i deleted my first response to this hollow/lack of substance opinion. honestly i cannot tell if you do not know how stamblades function or just want to make the class nonviable again. here let me explain.

in terms of the functionality of a stamblade this changes goes completely against the functionality of the class in pvp. completely against it. as a stamblade in pvp you keep at distance a good 80% of the time and build up grim focus stacks so that you can go in and engage your opponent in a burst rotation when they can actually do damage to you and potentially kill you. what this 10% damage reduction does is prevent you from getting globaled by a high aoe pressure class with cc such as a magdk, magplar or honestly with the current pts any casual who will be investing in proc set meta. this 10% is something vital towards that because these classes can still easily kill you while its active and when you expend your highest damage burst ability, the spectral bow of grim focus, you should either be killing your target or backing off and kiting again.

10% crit damage and 10% crit healing on the other hand is entirely useless towards this functionality.

First, the crit damage is useless because you should already have enough damage to kill someone without this crit damage. I know because I'm a 1vx stamblade and I can kill even the masters snb set cheesers with just 2 damage sets not 3. it is not a struggle for us to kill people the extra crit damage is unnecessary towards this. and the only abilities this 10% crit damage can effect is our incap strike and our spammable. if youre a good stamblade first off youre not even using incap strike youre using soul harvest because its a 1k tooltip damage difference and you are only really using it for the healing reduction and 20% damage increase so that your light attack/surprise attack weave, spectral bow, and execute start doing kill damage pressure which the target cant heal through. basically the 10% crit damage is truly only a buff to your light attack/surprise attack spammable damage which doesn't really buff our damage much at all because that spammable is more so fishing for a camohunter crit proc to use spectral bow on than damage on its own. it is in other words this 10% crit damage is nearly entirely useless towards us.

the 10% crit healing isnt necessary because it only helps us with our weakest heal, vigor, and not by much (i have tested it on pts). when you go into your damage rotation you pre-vigor it and maybe sometimes vigor during the fight (though this is rare) but your main burst heals during your damage rotation are coming from your grim focus spectral bow and your rally which are both abilities usually casted after your grim focus is expended as it is best to have a tight damage rotation and from experience doing this damage rotation 1000's of times. and regarless of when you cast either ability, both spectral bow heal and rally heal are large enough that they don't need the extraneous crit healing to heal you to full. the 10% crit healing is completely extraneous just as the 10% crit damage is.

so in all, we're trading vital 10% damage mitigation against high pressure classes which are our counter for 10% crit damage on our spammable which we don't actually need to kill people with and 10% crit healing on our weakest heal at the start of a fight. it is a very fat nerf that completely goes against how the class functions in pvp combat. all you people saying "oh it fits the theme" clearly don't understand nightblade enough to be voicing an opinion on the matter.

edited for clarity and less toxicity

Strider__Roshin

I think crit damage suits an assassination class more than damage mitigation. I think if we're going to make the class tanky it should be by the means of Dark Cloak which eliminates your ability to go invisible.

susmitds

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

I think crit damage suits an assassination class more than damage mitigation. I think if we're going to make the class tanky it should be by the means of Dark Cloak which eliminates your ability to go invisible.

This.

@Strider_Roshin Unfortunately we know already that ZoS struggles to balance stealthblades and brawlerblades invididually.