Proc set meta demonstration

Mayrael

Lughlongarm wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Lughlongarm Yep, just confirmed on PTS, Red Mountain works just as poorly as all the other proc sets with a cooldown equal to the time between DoT ticks. 6 ticks of Rending (well 7, but the first 2 were simultaneous), each spaced 2s, and Red Mountain only procced 4 times.



There's some RNG here. It's possible for it to get 6 procs out of 6 ticks, just very rare. It could also proc as few as 3 times from a cast of Rending.

That's very strange. The shorter the CD the more RNG it gets? Becuase I also checked Winterborn with Destructive Touch dot, at it procs on CD from what I could tell.

Try to use multiple skills procing a set, maybe it will result in better distribution of procs. If yes then we have the cause.

Nemesis7884

Saubon wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

consequence will - once again be - sets get nerfed into the ground and unusable in pve because of complaints from pvp and nothing changes or becomes more diverse / more interesting

this sort of thing keeps running around the forums but a few things:

1. That's what battle spirit is for, so that pve and pvp don't intertwine. Blaming PVE'ers or PvP'ers for nerfs when there's a system in place for separate adjustments doesn't make any sense.

2. There have been plenty of nerfs on the pve side that have impacted pvp as well. Namely the great damage and sustain that Mag dk has in a trial setting that made them the best dps a few patches ago, but their damage in pvp has been constantly nerfed and they struggle in that department when they weren't great there to begin with.

There's always adjustments in each part of this game, but the rule set that is there to keep them separate isn't always employed. THIS is what you should be annoyed about, imo.

lol youre kidding? most of the nerfs in recent months/years have ALL been due to pvp whining and pve suffered for it - look at bloodspawn as just one example

This is bad example, bloodspawn was really bad monster set for PvE even pre-nerf.

why everyone hated it and no one was using it....oh yea right

sabresandiego_ESO

While this video brings up valid concerns (if proc sets were not balanced correctly): I believe it is ultimately a fake narrative and fake news

He is probably not up against a dueling build. For the life of ESO -> most top dueling builds have been stat based monsters and I believe they still are.

FrankonPC

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

ok other example
proc sets dont crit - i guess that was also a change "a large portion of the community wanted"

If you go back at that point in time to either these forums or youtube/popular streamers etc, none of them wanted the sets to not crit, they wanted them on a global cooldown system so that multiple couldn't proc at the same time. Preventing them from critting never solved the original problem.

Do you have another example?

FrankonPC

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

While this video brings up valid concerns (if proc sets were not balanced correctly): I believe it is ultimately a fake narrative and fake news

He is probably not up against a dueling build. For the life of ESO -> most top dueling builds have been stat based monsters and I believe they still are.

Please explain how this is fake news.

I play open world so when I am forced to duel on the pts I duel with what I would run in open world against what I would face.

Pelican

ZOS seems to love adding cast times for no reason, maybe they should add one to procs that would be funny

Finedaible

Buying a chapter/DLC in this game anywhere within up to a month after its official launch is like pre-ordering a beta access.

You can bet Malacath and Ring of the Wild Hunt will get nerfed to uselessness soon. Heck, even Titanborn Strength will probably get nerfed once they announce the last dlc for this year.

Lughlongarm

FrankonPC wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Thank you for the feedback and the video. It was very insightful in spite of my criticism.
I referred it as "dueling build" because all of the 3 proc sets you equipped are single target and dodgable and work much better in a short to medium range. Not sure how this setup would have worked in keep like battle, 1vsx, or even how will it preform vs a dodgy stamina NB, a long range magicka sorc, stamcro that can shut down your healing etc....

I don't think Magden is the go to toon to evaluate dueling power. Especially on the open world meta setup build. Also, high HP heavy attack builds are a thing, shouldn't be that surprising that also LA builds could be a thing.

I do agree however that on PTS, some proc sets greatly over-perfom compared to other proc sets. So ya, porc sets should be evaluated on a set to set basis.

No worries, I just wanted to explain where I was coming from. Most of my builds on my channel are all single target. I just find them more enjoyable to play than aoe. That's not really possible on a class like magden since their entire kit IS aoe, but I was still able to make this effective. For me the single target is preferred. Ele drain my target to proc icy, weapon swap, hit deep fissure then light attack and hit force pulse. There's a good chance I'll have maw out by then, caluurions is guaranteed to proc on my la and will land around the same time as my fissure. Force pulse will land shortly after.

If the light attacks and procs are so much damage that an armor master magden can't survive, I'm going to burst most people with that combination. This isn't a light attack build so much as it's a build showing how powerful procs are by light attacking.

Somehow I missed your reply.

Just wanted to add that I watched your last steam testing the various proc sets.

-I think I was right regarding some of the limitations I highlighted regarding the proposed build. Btw, Decimus has been running very similar setup on Magblade like 2 patches ago(procing both sets at once in 0 range with ambush from stealth) so the major addition in the upcoming patch is that it is now working with malacath's but you need to proc the combo from 2 different bars. Is it a viable setup? Sure. Is it the build that shines above top tier builds? I'm very skeptical.

-I really liked your Idea regarding having a Hp cap on the MaX HP based heals and Shields. Special cases like necro ulti or the Vamp ulti and heal could stay without limitations.

-Regarding missing the big picture - Some proc sets are over performing I'm 100% sure about that. Most of them are still mediocre.Will BG be full of procs? Sure, when it wasn't? But the picture is much bigger that it seems. Players already testing Mechanical Acuity 3 shot combos. Crit builds are making a come back. Mostly on Sorcs and NB.

-Value sets like burning spellweave" can be now be backed bar. Magicka templar can back bar burning spellweave(proc with "Sun Fire"), War Maiden body, master staff front bar, Balorgh. This is a significant increase in stats potential. With shadow increasing healing and damage, this cold get scary.

-Crazy support sets like "Arkasis's Genius" that does not have a radius limitation. 4 man groups dropping ulities one after the other, sustaining from one dud with "Lamia's Song ".

What I'm trying to say, lots of things going around right now and you are one of the leading creators that checks and comment on different upcoming sets. Don't be fixed on proc sets alone. It is under the radar of most of the forums active players, regardless.

Good stream, keep up the good work.

FrankonPC

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Good stream, keep up the good work.

Appreciate it and thank you. There's just so much to dive into, you have to start somewhere, haha.

Sugaroverdose

Unlucky me to start playing right before this piece of wrobel happens again, wtf

evoniee

you can kill good player with light attack with 40k hp lmao this game i completely lost

Joinovikova

evoniee wrote: »

you can kill good player with light attack with 40k hp lmao this game i completely lost

Main changes which I see in upcoming patch half people will leave ESO pvp just because their current builds will be totally useless all necesary sets will be behind paywall (place pvp content behind paywall is great idea. something like IC)but anyway its good message for current huge pvp population . another half will build some simliiar builds.. imagine duel of two warden with simmilar build .. it will be really fun to play, but yy they will be able to report to management they finnaly fix lags, desync and poor performance in Cyro and providde evidence " see the tickets about *** performance in cyro rapidly greatly decreased, we did great job"

silky_soft

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

I know when a random person pings me and half my coworkers im super likely to read through their message and take note.

jk, its just obnoxiouse

You know what’s obnoxious? These devs completely changing everything every 3 months. These devs appearing to know very little how these changes will affect gameplay.

They used to do it every week.

Curious_Death

adilazimdegilx wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

I am sure that Zos will not touch malacat this year. we paid money for it

Thrassian says 'Hi'

Pretty sure it's the next on the list. With this proc sets changes I wouldnt be surprised if they hit it on this DLC.

cmon [snip].... i was 51k magsorc with 6k spell power... 44% crit i was killing ppl with crystals + mages wrath...

and two shields with 24k resistances gave me enough defense even debuffed by this set... it was too op also on all magclasses ... they was able to hit 26k with synergy equipped 3x harmony jawelleries... truly was too op

[Edited to remove Offensive Content]

ItsJustHashtag

FrankonPC wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

ok other example
proc sets dont crit - i guess that was also a change "a large portion of the community wanted"

If you go back at that point in time to either these forums or youtube/popular streamers etc, none of them wanted the sets to not crit, they wanted them on a global cooldown system so that multiple couldn't proc at the same time. Preventing them from critting never solved the original problem.

Do you have another example?

I miss the days where I could do 15-20k damage from one heavy attack with critting proc sets.

Fawn4287

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

consequence will - once again be - sets get nerfed into the ground and unusable in pve because of complaints from pvp and nothing changes or becomes more diverse / more interesting

this sort of thing keeps running around the forums but a few things:

1. That's what battle spirit is for, so that pve and pvp don't intertwine. Blaming PVE'ers or PvP'ers for nerfs when there's a system in place for separate adjustments doesn't make any sense.

2. There have been plenty of nerfs on the pve side that have impacted pvp as well. Namely the great damage and sustain that Mag dk has in a trial setting that made them the best dps a few patches ago, but their damage in pvp has been constantly nerfed and they struggle in that department when they weren't great there to begin with.

There's always adjustments in each part of this game, but the rule set that is there to keep them separate isn't always employed. THIS is what you should be annoyed about, imo.

lol youre kidding? most of the nerfs in recent months/years have ALL been due to pvp whining and pve suffered for it - look at bloodspawn as just one example

No one in PvP was complaining about bloodspawn lmao, I absolutely despise the idea of healing and damage proc sets but bloodspawn didn’t make up for a total lack of skill, it just gave better players the opportunity to run 2 damage 5 piece sets. It was a fair trade off of 2 1 piece resistance monster sets with full uptime vs the same resists + ult gain + stam regen with a down time, this is what all proc sets should be.

StarOfElyon

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Thank you for the feedback and the video. It was very insightful in spite of my criticism.
I referred it as "dueling build" because all of the 3 proc sets you equipped are single target and dodgable and work much better in a short to medium range. Not sure how this setup would have worked in keep like battle, 1vsx, or even how will it preform vs a dodgy stamina NB, a long range magicka sorc, stamcro that can shut down your healing etc....

I don't think Magden is the go to toon to evaluate dueling power. Especially on the open world meta setup build. Also, high HP heavy attack builds are a thing, shouldn't be that surprising that also LA builds could be a thing.

I do agree however that on PTS, some proc sets greatly over-perfom compared to other proc sets. So ya, porc sets should be evaluated on a set to set basis.

No worries, I just wanted to explain where I was coming from. Most of my builds on my channel are all single target. I just find them more enjoyable to play than aoe. That's not really possible on a class like magden since their entire kit IS aoe, but I was still able to make this effective. For me the single target is preferred. Ele drain my target to proc icy, weapon swap, hit deep fissure then light attack and hit force pulse. There's a good chance I'll have maw out by then, caluurions is guaranteed to proc on my la and will land around the same time as my fissure. Force pulse will land shortly after.

If the light attacks and procs are so much damage that an armor master magden can't survive, I'm going to burst most people with that combination. This isn't a light attack build so much as it's a build showing how powerful procs are by light attacking.

Somehow I missed your reply.

Just wanted to add that I watched your last steam testing the various proc sets.

-I think I was right regarding some of the limitations I highlighted regarding the proposed build. Btw, Decimus has been running very similar setup on Magblade like 2 patches ago(procing both sets at once in 0 range with ambush from stealth) so the major addition in the upcoming patch is that it is now working with malacath's but you need to proc the combo from 2 different bars. Is it a viable setup? Sure. Is it the build that shines above top tier builds? I'm very skeptical.

-I really liked your Idea regarding having a Hp cap on the MaX HP based heals and Shields. Special cases like necro ulti or the Vamp ulti and heal could stay without limitations.

-Regarding missing the big picture - Some proc sets are over performing I'm 100% sure about that. Most of them are still mediocre.Will BG be full of procs? Sure, when it wasn't? But the picture is much bigger that it seems. Players already testing Mechanical Acuity 3 shot combos. Crit builds are making a come back. Mostly on Sorcs and NB.

-Value sets like burning spellweave" can be now be backed bar. Magicka templar can back bar burning spellweave(proc with "Sun Fire"), War Maiden body, master staff front bar, Balorgh. This is a significant increase in stats potential. With shadow increasing healing and damage, this cold get scary.

-Crazy support sets like "Arkasis's Genius" that does not have a radius limitation. 4 man groups dropping ulities one after the other, sustaining from one dud with "Lamia's Song ".

What I'm trying to say, lots of things going around right now and you are one of the leading creators that checks and comment on different upcoming sets. Don't be fixed on proc sets alone. It is under the radar of most of the forums active players, regardless.

Good stream, keep up the good work.

I've been the lone dude banging the drum for Lamia's Song to get a buff. Now it finally has. Don't take this from me!

Lughlongarm

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Thank you for the feedback and the video. It was very insightful in spite of my criticism.
I referred it as "dueling build" because all of the 3 proc sets you equipped are single target and dodgable and work much better in a short to medium range. Not sure how this setup would have worked in keep like battle, 1vsx, or even how will it preform vs a dodgy stamina NB, a long range magicka sorc, stamcro that can shut down your healing etc....

I don't think Magden is the go to toon to evaluate dueling power. Especially on the open world meta setup build. Also, high HP heavy attack builds are a thing, shouldn't be that surprising that also LA builds could be a thing.

I do agree however that on PTS, some proc sets greatly over-perfom compared to other proc sets. So ya, porc sets should be evaluated on a set to set basis.

No worries, I just wanted to explain where I was coming from. Most of my builds on my channel are all single target. I just find them more enjoyable to play than aoe. That's not really possible on a class like magden since their entire kit IS aoe, but I was still able to make this effective. For me the single target is preferred. Ele drain my target to proc icy, weapon swap, hit deep fissure then light attack and hit force pulse. There's a good chance I'll have maw out by then, caluurions is guaranteed to proc on my la and will land around the same time as my fissure. Force pulse will land shortly after.

If the light attacks and procs are so much damage that an armor master magden can't survive, I'm going to burst most people with that combination. This isn't a light attack build so much as it's a build showing how powerful procs are by light attacking.

Somehow I missed your reply.

Just wanted to add that I watched your last steam testing the various proc sets.

-I think I was right regarding some of the limitations I highlighted regarding the proposed build. Btw, Decimus has been running very similar setup on Magblade like 2 patches ago(procing both sets at once in 0 range with ambush from stealth) so the major addition in the upcoming patch is that it is now working with malacath's but you need to proc the combo from 2 different bars. Is it a viable setup? Sure. Is it the build that shines above top tier builds? I'm very skeptical.

-I really liked your Idea regarding having a Hp cap on the MaX HP based heals and Shields. Special cases like necro ulti or the Vamp ulti and heal could stay without limitations.

-Regarding missing the big picture - Some proc sets are over performing I'm 100% sure about that. Most of them are still mediocre.Will BG be full of procs? Sure, when it wasn't? But the picture is much bigger that it seems. Players already testing Mechanical Acuity 3 shot combos. Crit builds are making a come back. Mostly on Sorcs and NB.

-Value sets like burning spellweave" can be now be backed bar. Magicka templar can back bar burning spellweave(proc with "Sun Fire"), War Maiden body, master staff front bar, Balorgh. This is a significant increase in stats potential. With shadow increasing healing and damage, this cold get scary.

-Crazy support sets like "Arkasis's Genius" that does not have a radius limitation. 4 man groups dropping ulities one after the other, sustaining from one dud with "Lamia's Song ".

What I'm trying to say, lots of things going around right now and you are one of the leading creators that checks and comment on different upcoming sets. Don't be fixed on proc sets alone. It is under the radar of most of the forums active players, regardless.

Good stream, keep up the good work.

I've been the lone dude banging the drum for Lamia's Song to get a buff. Now it finally has. Don't take this from me!

Lamia's Song is actually perfectly fine. "Arkasis's Genius" is the problematic set.