Should proc set damage be decreased by battlespirit?

JoSePHRiNG

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit, but malacath should still work on them

Then why Major Berserk is a thing too? I think Malacath ring should work on proc sets.

But they must affected by Battle Spirit too.

relentless_turnip

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

JoSePHRiNG wrote: »

Then why Major Berserk is a thing too? I think Malacath ring should work on proc sets.

But they must affected by Battle Spirit too.

You can't compare a buff you can have for 5 secs max under very specific conditions to malacath.... I don't think malacath is best on every build like many would have you believe. It is best on a pressure build, not a burst build. I am simply saying they are not comparable.

Sheuib

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

Sure malacath will make your proc sets 25% stronger but it also forces you to drop from three proc sets to two proc sets. I would have to say if a player is depending on proc sets to kill people than using malacath will actually be a loss. I haven't tested this and I am not going to. But, if someone else wants to, go right ahead. It would probably solve this whole argument.

Additionally, everyone keeps bringing up the 19k in 5 seconds new set as the reason for this. Isn't it obvious that the problem is the new set. Not all proc sets.

technohic

Proc set tooltips shouldn't be lowered via battlespirit, but malacath shouldnt work on them

My problem with proc sets has always been they do not require a stat investment. You can turtle up your build and get the same damage. I dont know what the fix would be as changing that fact and balancing would be out of the question so I feel malacath should also not buff them to be in line with stats not buffing them as a start. Then there are a couple outliers that proc off crit that should just be lowered without a blanket BS nerf.

xXMeowMeowXx

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

Mine should be Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

Sorry at work but I believe there should be some semblance of skill left in PvP. This 100% the wrong direction for ZOS to go. Please make your feedback heard on the PTS.

It is bad enough there are so few PvPers on there as it is.

Kittytravel

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit, but malacath should still work on them

xaraan wrote: »

No, proc sets aren't really a big thing in PvE, it's obvious they are mainly for pvp.

You run many dungeons recently? Cause I've met a lot of DPS that can definitely use these updated proc sets to literally double their DPS. No offense to those players but they definitely need more automated damage to get them by because they either can't or won't do a rotation.

I do think Malacath should continue working on these sets to promote their use of easy DPS and to realize ZOS's intention of raising the floor without raising the ceiling; Malacath and Proc sets can achieve that.

But Proc sets imo shouldn't become prevalent in a skill based environment that is centered around competition; and that is what PvP is at the end of the day. A 25% nerf to proc set damage on top of the 50% damage reduction afterwards would most likely be plenty sufficient to prevent them from taking a crown. Most proc sets can be cleansed or simply moved out of as well.
IE: Without including CP Unleashed Terror with Malacath would do 19728 + 25% = 24660 / 2 = 12330 over 5 seconds. The addition of the extra 25% reduction would make it calculate as 19728 - 25% = 14796 + 25% (Malacths) = 18495 / 2 = 9247.5 over 5 seconds. A 3k damage loss on a set that can occur once every 10 seconds would let it remain as an option in PvE but make it pretty lackluster in PvP. The battle spirit debuff can be tuned as needed and it allows them to freely make proc sets for PvE to continue raising their floor without damaging the balance of PvP in the process as they once did.

Ragnaroek93

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

Proc sets are absolutely ridiculous. We're heading towards a meta in which a lot classes will just die from full proc damage because you take more red numbers than green numbers, especially with Major Defile on you. I'm actually for more damage overall in PvP (at least in CP PvP) but not in form of ridiculous AFK damage which allows some classes to build for full defense and regen while still being able to kill opponents.

the1andonlyskwex

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

technohic wrote: »

My problem with proc sets has always been they do not require a stat investment. You can turtle up your build and get the same damage.

That's not really true. Proc sets require you to sacrifice the stats you would otherwise get from a 5-piece armor or 2-piece monster set bonus.

Strider__Roshin

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

My problem with proc sets has always been they do not require a stat investment. You can turtle up your build and get the same damage.

That's not really true. Proc sets require you to sacrifice the stats you would otherwise get from a 5-piece armor or 2-piece monster set bonus.

1) the person you were responding to was saying that essentially you can be in full heavy with all of your attributes into health and you'll be doing the same amount of damage as someone that's spec'd to be a glass cannon using the same proc set.

2) the amount of tool tip damage you lose by using a proc set doesn't even compare to the extra free damage you'll get by using it. That's the issue. The damage from proc sets is nuts.

the1andonlyskwex

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

My problem with proc sets has always been they do not require a stat investment. You can turtle up your build and get the same damage.

That's not really true. Proc sets require you to sacrifice the stats you would otherwise get from a 5-piece armor or 2-piece monster set bonus.

1) the person you were responding to was saying that essentially you can be in full heavy with all of your attributes into health and you'll be doing the same amount of damage as someone that's spec'd to be a glass cannon using the same proc set.

2) the amount of tool tip damage you lose by using a proc set doesn't even compare to the extra free damage you'll get by using it. That's the issue. The damage from proc sets is nuts.

You have to remember that the bonuses you get from stats affect everything you do, not just one ability every 10 or so seconds. There's a reason proc sets haven't been anywhere close to meta for a long time. The buffs on the PTS aren't big enough to significantly change that, particularly when some of the sets that proc stats instead of damage got buffed too.

Also, even if the changes do result in a new proc-set-meta, I think it's good to change up the meta every once in a while. Otherwise, things start to get stale.

Edit: Also, most of the big proc sets don't drop in heavy.

Strider__Roshin

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

My problem with proc sets has always been they do not require a stat investment. You can turtle up your build and get the same damage.

That's not really true. Proc sets require you to sacrifice the stats you would otherwise get from a 5-piece armor or 2-piece monster set bonus.

1) the person you were responding to was saying that essentially you can be in full heavy with all of your attributes into health and you'll be doing the same amount of damage as someone that's spec'd to be a glass cannon using the same proc set.

2) the amount of tool tip damage you lose by using a proc set doesn't even compare to the extra free damage you'll get by using it. That's the issue. The damage from proc sets is nuts.

You have to remember that the bonuses you get from stats affect everything you do, not just one ability every 10 or so seconds. There's a reason proc sets haven't been anywhere close to meta for a long time. The buffs on the PTS aren't big enough to significantly change that, particularly when some of the sets that proc stats instead of damage got buffed too.

Also, even if the changes do result in a new proc-set-meta, I think it's good to change up the meta every once in a while. Otherwise, things start to get stale.

Edit: Also, most of the big proc sets don't drop in heavy.

Tank builds can always just use the jewelry and weapons. They do the same thing with Alkosh in PvE.

kalunte

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

well, Procset like any other dmg in game is affected by battle spirit. the tooltips may not show it, they are definatly not breaking battle spirit rules.

As for malacath, well, it have to work with all damage to be worth using.

the pool can have 2/4 option removed.

Aedrion

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

There is nothing skilled about proc-sets in PvP, they don't belong there.
You wanna kill somebody? Use skills and beat them.

And Malacath should be outright deleted from the game. It was a mistake adding it in the first place.

Nemesis7884

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

I rather have them reduced in pvp than being nerfed into the ground in pve because of pvp..

It is sooo frustrating to see a cool sounding new set and be excited about it, just to have it nerfed into the ground a few weeks later...

relentless_turnip

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

kalunte wrote: »

well, Procset like any other dmg in game is affected by battle spirit. the tooltips may not show it, they are definatly not breaking battle spirit rules.

As for malacath, well, it have to work with all damage to be worth using.

the pool can have 2/4 option removed.

All damage is lowered by 50% via battlespirit...

So my 17k tooltip on dizzy swing for example which I have to build near 7k weapon damage to achieve becomes 8.5k. unleashed which is free and without any investment in stats to achieve a tooltip of 19k becomes9.5k.

I keep hearing people saying it is already lowered via battlespirit, but we are saying not enough to be a substitute for a skill. It is currently much better than a skill. If you add malacath to this it's beyond inbalanced. You can make a tank with afk damage. I have no problem with it being as good as an equivalent skill, but it shouldn't be better.

technohic

Proc set tooltips shouldn't be lowered via battlespirit, but malacath shouldnt work on them

relentless_turnip wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

well, Procset like any other dmg in game is affected by battle spirit. the tooltips may not show it, they are definatly not breaking battle spirit rules.

As for malacath, well, it have to work with all damage to be worth using.

the pool can have 2/4 option removed.

All damage is lowered by 50% via battlespirit...

So my 17k tooltip on dizzy swing for example which I have to build near 7k weapon damage to achieve becomes 8.5k. unleashed which is free and without any investment in stats to achieve a tooltip of 19k becomes9.5k.

I keep hearing people saying it is already lowered via battlespirit, but we are saying not enough to be a substitute for a skill. It is currently much better than a skill. If you add malacath to this it's beyond inbalanced. You can make a tank with afk damage. I have no problem with it being as good as an equivalent skill, but it shouldn't be better.

This here ^

karekiz

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit, but malacath should still work on them

Of course they should all scale with Weapon/spell damage - Stamina/magicka.

Then again stuff like Alkosh exists lol.

Chrlynsch

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

Have Malacath make it so you can't crit heal, that would be enough of a drawback to make people rethink running full procs.

Sheuib

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

Honestly, if anyone dies from proc sets alone they really are garbage players. Especially, with the tank meta still in full swing. A bad player is not going to be able to put on proc sets and be able to kill a skilled player. There is a lot more involved in pvp than just putting out damage.

So, if someone wants to use passive damage let them. If someone wants to use stat bonuses and kill with skill then let them. Stop trying to make everyone play the game you want. If you are constantly dieing to a particular person it is because that person is doing something that your build can't compensate for or they are just plain better than you.

Finedaible

I'm just waiting for the day that they will have created so many exceptions via Battlespirit that they finally realize that trying to keep same rules between PvE and PvP and Champion points is too much of a headache and that they will have essentially split the two game modes with a long list of exceptions and rules. This is why no one else in the gaming industry mixes both modes. You already have to build differently for PvE, CP PvP and No-CP PvP modes so what is the point?

Kadoin

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

No, because not all proc sets are overbuffed. A blanket change will give similar results to the blanket heal nerf: nerf some procs to the point they are never worth wearing, while leaving OP procs OP relative to all the other procs.

That's not balance. Also, some sets like the changed Caluurion will stay OP anyway because not only do they do a lot of damage, they also consistently proc secondary effects that are beneficial on their own. You would think would be attached to the proc sets that do far less damage instead.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Proc sets are free damage
Free damage lowers the skill gap
Lower skill gap, bad game

This.

Abilities do damage,
more damage lowers the skillcap
Lower skill gap, bad game.

Bad argument. This entiere game is built around pre-dotting, pre-buffing, many proc sets are just an extension of that. The only thing that matters is they dont create insane 1shot windows.

I suspect like Icy Conjeror was, we will see some changes to these new proc sets to reduce burst potential in todays PTS notes.

Banana

I'd rather ping and lag was reduced

Vaoh

Proc set tooltips should be lowered via battlespirit and malacath shouldnt work on them

Double (or some other big buff) the damage of all the damage proc sets that are terrible in PvE. That way they can at least be somewhat useful for players.

Then cut the damage in half (so there’s no difference) for PvP.

Pretty much all damage Proc sets are terrible in PvE due to balancing for PvP.

Bergzorn

Apart from the proc sets, I even liked the first PTS notes. But if this goes live, it will be a long-time low for PvP.

The community outcry is there, but not as loud as in the past. It looks like a lot of proc set rejecters don't bother speaking up - or maybe just left the game for good.

pieratsos

Make them not work in pvp at all

Maulkin

Other

First and foremost Battle Spirit needs differentiating between CP and no-CP. One size does not fit all.

No-CP could easily accommodate a marginal nerf to proc sets even before Malacath, nevermind now. CP has no issue with proc sets, they barely see use in PvE or PvP. No-cp also didn't warrant a nerf to self-healing with Battle Spirit. At most a nerf to cross heals (reduction to healing received from other players).

Frankly even PvE could use a nerf to cross heals. If Thrassian Stranglers has taught us anything is that even with 40% reduction to healing received, you have no problems surviving unless you're getting one-shot. The hardest part of Thrassian is the increase to incoming damage not the healing reduction. Because over 90% of PvE heals are overheals anyway and the only way people die is either to one-shot mechanics, or standing outside of heals altogether. Not because heals don't suffice.

/rant

Maulkin

Vaoh wrote: »

Double (or some other big buff) the damage of all the damage proc sets that are terrible in PvE. That way they can at least be somewhat useful for players.

Then cut the damage in half (so there’s no difference) for PvP.

Pretty much all damage Proc sets are terrible in PvE due to balancing for PvP.

They could simply make proc sets crit in PvE while putting the no-crit limitation into Battle Spirit.

They still need separate Battle Spirits for different PvP modes because even without crits and without malacath, proc sets are much stronger than stat sets in no-CP and will need to be tailored separately to CP.

MurderMostFoul

Proc set tooltips shouldn't be lowered via battlespirit, but malacath shouldnt work on them

Malacath shouldn't work with them, or Malacath should be nerfed a bit. Malacath working with proc sets gives it crazy "powered added" especially in noCP.

But battle spirit already lowers damage by 50%. Certain proc sets that prove to over perform given that constraint should be tuned down, but I don't think Battle Spirit should have and extra damage modifier just for proc sets.

Sheuib

Proc set tooltips shouldnt be lowered via battlespirit

The really good players that I know all use stat sets. The biggest bursts come from stat sets. Sure you can make someone that isn't as good at weaving and putting together the perfect combo's better with proc sets but they are not going to out dps a good player that runs stat sets.

In other words nerfing proc sets just makes the gap larger between the best players and the rest. All of them will quickly leave the game if they can't be somewhat competitive.