WHY remove dice rolls for procs??? The cornerstone of exciting gameplay in every game since D&D...
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haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »I don't find proc sets to be "the cornerstone of exciting gameplay" in action games. In slower, more tactics focused games, sure, but I'd wager that the average player in this (and many other action games) doesn't even necessarily notice a proc when it happens.
I don't consider proc sets to be the cornerstone, but chance based results are.
I disagree. Again, I'd wager most people don't even think about or engage with dice rolls in action games. This isn't D&D. The fast paced nature of it means most people don't even notice dice rolls happening, let alone find it exciting.
This is one of those changes that won't fully be appreciated for its insanity until it goes live and you walk into pvp and 20 people proc the same stuff on your head at a pre-determined interval, with laser precision.
I don't PvP.
That said, this isn't the point I was arguing against. I can bet Pvp'ers are going to absolutely hate this. I will enjoy it until ZOS get's enough of their spamming the forums and change it back.0 -
ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »I don't find proc sets to be "the cornerstone of exciting gameplay" in action games. In slower, more tactics focused games, sure, but I'd wager that the average player in this (and many other action games) doesn't even necessarily notice a proc when it happens.
I don't consider proc sets to be the cornerstone, but chance based results are.
I disagree. Again, I'd wager most people don't even think about or engage with dice rolls in action games. This isn't D&D. The fast paced nature of it means most people don't even notice dice rolls happening, let alone find it exciting.
This is one of those changes that won't fully be appreciated for its insanity until it goes live and you walk into pvp and 20 people proc the same stuff on your head at a pre-determined interval, with laser precision.
I don't PvP.
That said, this isn't the point I was arguing against. I can bet Pvp'ers are going to absolutely hate this. I will enjoy it until ZOS get's enough of their spamming the forums and change it back.
I play PVE and PVP and have often lamented how my PVE builds change because of PVP problems, but with the exception of a few item changes that removed not just a basic proc but a complex less easy to hit proc, most of the PVE proc-related changes are going to have a very minor impact to, say.. a boss fight.
But for PVP this is like a buff to everything that people have complained about for 6 years, combined into one update.Edited by ItMustBeThursday on July 13, 2020 8:01PM0 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ehhh removing RNG is a good thing for both PvP and PvE. Who cares how the RP chance feels when it's RNG that has a massive effect on if someone dies or not? It's not competitive in PvP and gives inconsistent results in PvE.6 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Proc chances? "Cornerstone of exciting gameplay"?
What?
The risk involved in a dice roll is a big part of whats fun in a lot of these proc based mechanics. What would D&D be w/o dice roles?
Sorry, I disagree. Randomness and unreliability doesn't excite me; it makes me exceedingly frustrated. When I DM I minimize randomness as much as I possibly can and instead focus on roleplaying opportunities (instead of roll-playing opportunities). It's so much more fun to talk your way past a guard with a great *** speech that doesn't hinge on you not rolling a 3 on a check for something your character has supposedly been training and practicing for years.
Combat in D&D is the most boring, frustrating, slow, grindy, unfun part of the whole system, and I minimize it as much as I can, both as a player and an DM.
You may love the adrenaline rush that comes from gambling and games of chance, but that's not a universal feeling.Edited by VoxAdActa on July 13, 2020 8:05PM9 -
ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭Ehhh removing RNG is a good thing for both PvP and PvE. Who cares how the RP chance feels when it's RNG that has a massive effect on if someone dies or not? It's not competitive in PvP and gives inconsistent results in PvE.
Respectfully disagree, when I'm wearing something like Burning Spellweave, if I've got a flame back bar with Wall of Elements, my uptime is usually just about 60%. This change ups that to 66%, and in most cases the results are just like that. It isn't about RP, it's about there actually being variability and risk in a decision you make.1 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »I don't find proc sets to be "the cornerstone of exciting gameplay" in action games. In slower, more tactics focused games, sure, but I'd wager that the average player in this (and many other action games) doesn't even necessarily notice a proc when it happens.
I don't consider proc sets to be the cornerstone, but chance based results are.
I disagree. Again, I'd wager most people don't even think about or engage with dice rolls in action games. This isn't D&D. The fast paced nature of it means most people don't even notice dice rolls happening, let alone find it exciting.
This is one of those changes that won't fully be appreciated for its insanity until it goes live and you walk into pvp and 20 people proc the same stuff on your head at a pre-determined interval, with laser precision.
I don't PvP.
That said, this isn't the point I was arguing against. I can bet Pvp'ers are going to absolutely hate this. I will enjoy it until ZOS get's enough of their spamming the forums and change it back.
I play PVE and PVP and have often lamented how my PVE builds change because of PVP problems, but with the exception of a few item changes that removed not just a basic proc but a complex less easy to hit proc, most of the PVE proc-related changes are going to have a very minor impact to, say.. a boss fight.
But for PVP this is like a buff to everything that people have complained about for 6 years, combined into one update.
I should have been clearer - I'm going to enjoy the impact on performance until they change it back.
And yeah, I get that PvP'ers hate this and there's a valid reason to hate it. And like with most things, they will likely get their way eventually. That said, I wasn't arguing that point. I was arguing that chance is a cornerstone of exciting gameplay in an action game.0 -
ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Proc chances? "Cornerstone of exciting gameplay"?
What?
The risk involved in a dice roll is a big part of whats fun in a lot of these proc based mechanics. What would D&D be w/o dice roles?
Sorry, I disagree. Randomness and unreliability doesn't excite me; it makes me exceedingly frustrated. When I DM I minimize randomness as much as I possibly can and instead focus on roleplaying opportunities (instead of roll-playing opportunities). It's so much more fun to talk your way past a guard with a great *** speech that doesn't hinge on you not rolling a 3 on a check for something your character has supposedly been training and practicing for years.
Combat in D&D is the most boring, frustrating, slow, grindy, unfun part of the whole system, and I minimize it as much as I can, both as a player and an DM.
You may love the adrenaline rush that comes from gambling and games of chance, but that's not a universal feeling.
Totally respect that opinion, and I get it, the nice part about that functionality in computer games is its invisible and instantaneous instead of waiting for someone to roll literal dice.
Whether you love or hate it, the game we've all played for many years now, is going to be changed in a way that will create PVP scenarios that are nearly impossible to counter, and it's unnecessary. There are plenty of other ways to boost performance, such as.. upgrading the hardware0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I should have added RNG to my statement
If it actually does improve server performance and reduces /eliminates the RNG factor in procs then it's a good thing. I'd rather have it be less RNG reliant anyway.Beta tester November 20132 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Proc chances? "Cornerstone of exciting gameplay"?
What?
The risk involved in a dice roll is a big part of whats fun in a lot of these proc based mechanics. What would D&D be w/o dice roles?
Sorry, I disagree. Randomness and unreliability doesn't excite me; it makes me exceedingly frustrated. When I DM I minimize randomness as much as I possibly can and instead focus on roleplaying opportunities (instead of roll-playing opportunities). It's so much more fun to talk your way past a guard with a great *** speech that doesn't hinge on you not rolling a 3 on a check for something your character has supposedly been training and practicing for years.
Combat in D&D is the most boring, frustrating, slow, grindy, unfun part of the whole system, and I minimize it as much as I can, both as a player and an DM.
You may love the adrenaline rush that comes from gambling and games of chance, but that's not a universal feeling.
Whether you love or hate it, the game we've all played for many years now, is going to be changed in a way that will create PVP scenarios that are nearly impossible to counter, and it's unnecessary.
Now this I can't disagree with. I'm not sure how it'll actually play out (my ability to theorycraft and predict trends is super lousy), but I remember a time when proc sets were all the rage in PvP, and a lot of people complained about it. I'm not sure I like removing the proc chances without significantly decreasing the effects, and removing the proc chance on Mechanical Acuity boggled my mind (but nobody's talking about it, so again, my inability to theorycraft might be leading me astray here).
We'll just have to see how it goes, I guess. But I'd caution anyone who wants to be a PvP god in the new meta against spending too much time farming for these sets; if it's that much of a big deal, they'll be nerfed again within a few months. The nerf schedule is much speedier than the buff schedule.
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ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Proc chances? "Cornerstone of exciting gameplay"?
What?
The risk involved in a dice roll is a big part of whats fun in a lot of these proc based mechanics. What would D&D be w/o dice roles?
Sorry, I disagree. Randomness and unreliability doesn't excite me; it makes me exceedingly frustrated. When I DM I minimize randomness as much as I possibly can and instead focus on roleplaying opportunities (instead of roll-playing opportunities). It's so much more fun to talk your way past a guard with a great *** speech that doesn't hinge on you not rolling a 3 on a check for something your character has supposedly been training and practicing for years.
Combat in D&D is the most boring, frustrating, slow, grindy, unfun part of the whole system, and I minimize it as much as I can, both as a player and an DM.
You may love the adrenaline rush that comes from gambling and games of chance, but that's not a universal feeling.
Whether you love or hate it, the game we've all played for many years now, is going to be changed in a way that will create PVP scenarios that are nearly impossible to counter, and it's unnecessary.
Now this I can't disagree with. I'm not sure how it'll actually play out (my ability to theorycraft and predict trends is super lousy), but I remember a time when proc sets were all the rage in PvP, and a lot of people complained about it. I'm not sure I like removing the proc chances without significantly decreasing the effects, and removing the proc chance on Mechanical Acuity boggled my mind (but nobody's talking about it, so again, my inability to theorycraft might be leading me astray here).
We'll just have to see how it goes, I guess. But I'd caution anyone who wants to be a PvP god in the new meta against spending too much time farming for these sets; if it's that much of a big deal, they'll be nerfed again within a few months. The nerf schedule is much speedier than the buff schedule.
That's my other big fear, is that because of the complexity of this change, when people rage later about the procs, ZoS will nerf the gear itself, and we'll end up with no real teeth in a lot of fun sets.0 -
ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭
I'm not sure I like removing the proc chances without significantly decreasing the effects, and removing the proc chance on Mechanical Acuity boggled my mind (but nobody's talking about it, so again, my inability to theorycraft might be leading me astray here).ItMustBeThursday wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Proc chances? "Cornerstone of exciting gameplay"?
What?
The risk involved in a dice roll is a big part of whats fun in a lot of these proc based mechanics. What would D&D be w/o dice roles?
Sorry, I disagree. Randomness and unreliability doesn't excite me; it makes me exceedingly frustrated. When I DM I minimize randomness as much as I possibly can and instead focus on roleplaying opportunities (instead of roll-playing opportunities). It's so much more fun to talk your way past a guard with a great *** speech that doesn't hinge on you not rolling a 3 on a check for something your character has supposedly been training and practicing for years.
Combat in D&D is the most boring, frustrating, slow, grindy, unfun part of the whole system, and I minimize it as much as I can, both as a player and an DM.
You may love the adrenaline rush that comes from gambling and games of chance, but that's not a universal feeling.
Whether you love or hate it, the game we've all played for many years now, is going to be changed in a way that will create PVP scenarios that are nearly impossible to counter, and it's unnecessary.
^This.
The irony of ZoS basically re-buffing MA - a set that was used by practically every DPS in every trial for months, is not lost on me.
It feels like we're going backwards in a lot of waysEdited by ItMustBeThursday on July 13, 2020 8:23PM0 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol, perfect synchro in proc - how you imagine that, with that lag?
As always people complain without even seeing this in action. Master greatsword supposed to be "stamina bombing spammable" and how it works in real life? I once tried it in middle of ballgroup and even used brawler 2-3 times before died - and they almost felt it I remember crying how it change Cyrodiil, but it changed nothing. I can bet that with proc's will be the same story. PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton0 -
ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭Luke_Flamesword wrote: »Lol, perfect synchro in proc - how you imagine that, with that lag?
As always people complain without even seeing this in action. Master greatsword supposed to be "stamina bombing spammable" and how it works in real life? I once tried it in middle of ballgroup and even used brawler 2-3 times before died - and they almost felt it I remember crying how it change Cyrodiil, but it changed nothing. I can bet that with proc's will be the same story.
Just guessing, but I'm betting you weren't playing during Summerset launch?1 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭RNG over Timers.... but hey I thought this was a MMORPG.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}1 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Kalik_Gold wrote: »RNG over Timers.... but hey I thought this was a MMORPG.
Its RolePG not RollPG11 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why? Same reason they limit them to group members and not just allies in Cyrodiil: Performance.
Like this: Spam Healing Springs on 40 players at a big fight, wearing Spell Power Cure. Every time (currently) it has to calculate which of six of these 40 players that will get the buff, they all have 50% chance if they're at full health, but only six can have it. Doing something like this will remove a lot of these calculations. If all or most procs becomes a given fact as long as the cooldown is met, there's no "lottery" every time if it will be a yay or a nay for proc of the set.
Don't let anyone fool you, I can assure you 100% that this is the case.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Told you guys that proc will rule PvP. This patch and the one before it has worse balance than One Tamriel. What's funny is that every single change is only buffing tank builds...0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »Kalik_Gold wrote: »RNG over Timers.... but hey I thought this was a MMORPG.
Its RolePG not RollPG
0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭The game is far too fast paced to notice the "dice rolls" happening so that's not the best argument against this change.
If anything I like the change because it does accomplish what they talked about before; raising the floor. People can use these new proc sets and achieve higher damage without requiring a greater quality of skill, but the change itself doesn't "raise" the ceiling at all it just will differentiate the ceiling that much more from people with proc sets. Those who have the skills to not rely on the damage of these sets will still stand far apart from the users but those less skilled players will now inconvenience the upper echelons less.
Some of them feel a bit too far but that remains to be seen, others seem like they went too low imo as is the case with Winterborn and peoples longing affection for Ice Mage builds. But as someone who plays DnD I don't see at all the connection between that and the terribly ran RNG these sets had in the game as you rarely ever noticed their effects happening, they just did.0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭they should of balanced it by powering all the "procs" with a small ultimate cost to replace the "chance aspect". Free dmg has always been this games achilles heel.
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Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The people who think this is gonna be way too broken, don't forget to look at the cooldowns of the sets. In a lot of cases it really doesn't matter. Sets with very general proc conditions are already proccing almost instantly because so many damage instances are happening at the same time.
The only real issue is gankers getting a guarantee on putting out the maximum damage possible on every gank, which leaves no counter play and will most likely result in nerfs or overbuffs again.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭It'll be interesting to see what goes live but many of the sets had their cool-downs increased, damage reduced and other appropriate balance adjustments made to them that seem like fair trade-off's for the removal of RNG from their equation. Most of them are still going to be niche af anyway because the annoying proc conditions are still there.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Part of me thinks that the removal of proc chance...Red_Feather wrote: »It is the best change of the update. Every set with a guaranteed trigger now works in any content. Not just boss fights and pvp.
...will increase the popularity of proc sets by "a lot"...
More people using them = more server lag.
ZOS is removing % chance to reduce server stress, but if you will have 90% jump in players using those sets, overall it will cause more lag vs what we have now...
Also a totally valid point, personally 90% of the time I prefer to run traditional sets in PVP, stuff like spinners and crafty alfiq. But it will be a proc game in PVP now, or no game at all.
I am sort of amazed that the graphical resource implications of dozens of visual procs going off in PVP is less than the resources consumed by calculating some fairly basic math problems.
Visual stuff should be 100% client problems.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It'll be interesting to see what goes live but many of the sets had their cool-downs increased, damage reduced and other appropriate balance adjustments made to them that seem like fair trade-off's for the removal of RNG from their equation. Most of them are still going to be niche af anyway because the annoying proc conditions are still there.
Isn't that strictly a nerf for long fights?0 -
ShawnLaRock✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is just another case of, “The Little Engine That Couldn’t.”
Why on earth are they breaking the game’s cornerstone complexity by trying to force it into this glaringly archaic infrastructure? Especially when there are literally free engines that are much newer, robust, and actually able to do all of the things ESO requires?
Heck - all of the people constantly asking for Sky Whales or underwater exploration could finally get their wish! lol - plus, y’know - the game would actually be back to ground-breaking, instead of increasingly lackluster... IMHO.
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xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭ItMustBeThursday wrote: »xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »Apply for job with ZOS to work on ESO if you have the fix for performance.
Once they know you can fix everything they will hire you ASAP.
That sort of ignores the point I'm trying to make.
Rather than properly and intelligently employing their resources to increasing their performance capacity, they're removing critical features of not just this game, but almost all games in this genre. It's a huge part of what makes them fun, the game isn't supposed to be set it and forget it. It's supposed to be a fun challenge, there should be uncertainty.
I didn’t ignore anything, as you don’t work on ESO or for ZOS.
You’re just speculating. You do not have any inner knowledge of their resources or how they allocate things. That is the honest truth.
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ItMustBeThursday✭✭✭xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »ItMustBeThursday wrote: »xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »Apply for job with ZOS to work on ESO if you have the fix for performance.
Once they know you can fix everything they will hire you ASAP.
That sort of ignores the point I'm trying to make.
Rather than properly and intelligently employing their resources to increasing their performance capacity, they're removing critical features of not just this game, but almost all games in this genre. It's a huge part of what makes them fun, the game isn't supposed to be set it and forget it. It's supposed to be a fun challenge, there should be uncertainty.
I didn’t ignore anything, as you don’t work on ESO or for ZOS.
You’re just speculating. You do not have any inner knowledge of their resources or how they allocate things. That is the honest truth.
It isnt really speculation its not hard to understand and they discuss the details of it frequently. But thanks for your input0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Don't get the performance part, RND() is pretty lightweight, in an MMO like ESO you could make it much more lightweight as you could use all rnd() calls / second as part of the randomness.ItMustBeThursday wrote: »A friend of mine, upon reading these notes, offered a suggestion that I think would also solve these performance problems.
Why don't you just auto-resolve combat, ZOS. If you're going to go down this road this severely. What's the point of actually engaging in combat. I could make a team all wearing the same two sets that proc based on incoming damage, one for healing, one for damage.
And then we could just walk into a group, stand together and let our gear kill them and heal us.
Good show
Now things will get more predictable and probably easier to test,
Now I see this as an problem in PvP as your initial burst would be stronger. Expect calls for nerfs on proc sets.
PvE not much impact at least at first but think skilled players might use this.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0
