Medusa Set Change

Runefang

Wolf81 wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

If sustain was in a better place for Magicka this would be great. As it stands a large number of people (incoming nerf aside) are using FGD for sustain, and typically want that on both bars for the cost reduction. That leaves this set either as front bar only which will dilute the value or 5pc full time, impacting either FGD or monster. As per the comments above, I'm not sure how many Mag setups currently have the spare resources for an extra magicka cast each second anyway to get value from it.

Basically this "sustain" is the Zos intentional clutch on certain dps marks/builds I'm sure of it. Sometimes I wonder if the community should lower their threshold expectations but at the same time player love to strive for higher and higher nothing wrong with that.

Is it their attempt to limit dps but the community does everything possible to avoid using heavy attacks to sustain because its boring and hurts dps far too much at the moment.

Ozby

not sure why people think Medusa does not drop staves , Eso sets says it does and there is no stat bonus to melee on the set that would have had staves removed.

Sordidfairytale

Ozby wrote: »

not sure why people think Medusa does not drop staves , Eso sets says it does and there is no stat bonus to melee on the set that would have had staves removed.

Probably because they never remembered looting one. I'm looking right at one in my inventory so...

DomstarX

so while the majority of people is complaining about sustain issue nobody is considering to slot medusa and use the free spot from beast trap for spell symmetry. if you would frontbar symmetry you would still have the 2% max magicka from MG passives that you lose from slotting 1 more heavy piece than usually (missing undaunted bonus) additional you would get the extra regen from passives and can activate symmetry for some flat magicka. yes you would probably do slightly lower dps but the sustain issue should be gone, no shenanigans like charged staves or ult regen potions needed anymore (speaking for DKs here) and no more clunky heavy attacks in the middle of your rotation.

if you currently have sustain issue you are probably losing some dps to this anyway so opting for a comfy way to sustain may even be a dps gain.

Maulkin

DomstarX wrote: »

so while the majority of people is complaining about sustain issue nobody is considering to slot medusa and use the free spot from beast trap for spell symmetry. if you would frontbar symmetry you would still have the 2% max magicka from MG passives that you lose from slotting 1 more heavy piece than usually (missing undaunted bonus) additional you would get the extra regen from passives and can activate symmetry for some flat magicka. yes you would probably do slightly lower dps but the sustain issue should be gone, no shenanigans like charged staves or ult regen potions needed anymore (speaking for DKs here) and no more clunky heavy attacks in the middle of your rotation.

if you currently have sustain issue you are probably losing some dps to this anyway so opting for a comfy way to sustain may even be a dps gain.

Who would that be? Magblade and (improved) Sorc don't seem to need Spell Sym and their own sustain skills are preferrable as they have the bonus functionality of healing rather than damaging you and heal debuffing you. MagNecro sustain is fine as well because it's passively built into the siphon skill and spare parts passive. MagDK has the most issues but is wearing Elf Bane heavy set so that's not gonna happen.

That leaves Templar and Warden who both have severe sustain issues and can use Medusa. Though both have space for Spell Sym without having to drop Trap. You can always sacrifice a DoT for it (usually Entropy or Vamp Bane) and use more of your spammable instead. Easier than accommodating Medusa. They also have their own sustain skills.

If this was a light armor Tzogvin, it could potentially be front-barred on MagDK. The class that can ill-afford to drop dots from its bar because of how Elf Bane works. It would perhaps be an alternative to Elf-Bane + MS/Siroria.

DomstarX

@Maulkin you definitely got a point there with the class sustain skills but i wanted to point out this option anyway because it would be applikable to every class and only a few players think outside of the box to add something for sustain instead of one more dot instead of trap.
the sustain was the main reason (except for the power creepers of course) why everyone was losing it when they saw the b4b nerf. that skill was a nice band aid to cover some sustain while doing good dmg and now the skill was basically rendered useless (if nothing else changes) so the sustain complaints are coming back.
so imo the changes to this set can make it viable in some situations and from what i have seen so far from other peoples testing it the parses are in the same dps range.

Jodynn

Tested spell sym on magdk, it's always felt awful, it still feels negative to me but will I use it?

Yes, because it's better than heavy attacking.

Charged staff with altmer gives less heavy attacks/spell symmetry ( on average without ult pots need 3-5 depending on burning proc luck), that being said using trap and a different set than medusa I still have room for symmetry just not frontbar because inner light is superior on frontbar and outparse medusa parses.

Though I plan on testing in vMA with optimistic views but I also only go in that place when I'm extremely bored with literally nothing else to do because repetition never did appeal to me.

It's a convenience set but not by any means the best..

Would rather see scalding rune obtain minor force.

kojou

If you already have a decent amount of crit chance then running Medusa instead of Mother's Sorrow could actually be pretty viable. Especially if it means that you can add and cast a DoT instead of using your skill slot for a skill that gives you minor force.

Deloth_Vyrr

Front-barring this with PFG on body has added between 1.5-2k dps over my personal best since Greymoor launched. (~84k vs previous ~82k on magsorc). The set is good even just on frontbar, and it feels really good not needing to actively keep up minor force

YandereGirlfriend

Seriously people, the set being Heavy is NOT actually a big deal. Like at all. Yokeda users have survived perfectly fine and it's not uncommon at all in PvP to play a Magicka character using a non-Light set on your Jewels or Chest/Pants or Weapon.

Yes, you lose Minor Force for a few seconds when you're on your back-bar, the horror! You were already marginally losing DPS when on your back-bar using MS so this is nothing new neither.

In a time when Magicka Necromancer STILL doesn't have a functioning Blastbones this complaint is filed somewhere between "First World Problems" and "People Just Want Something to Complain About."

jecks33

Apox wrote: »

it wouldnt be an issue if theyd just add staves to its loot pool

i found the lightning staff tonight, I think the flame staff also exists

adilazimdegilx

I think this set SHOULD stay as heavy. Otherwise it would completely replace Mother Sorrow. On PTS it seems like they are pretty much on par with each other which is good IMO.

Nemesis7884

I dont think they have ever changed set weights ever...they probably cant do it or the server melt

Sahidom

I can confirm the set does drop staves.

Apox

[Snip] its gonna be a bad set when its already proven to be better than mothers sorrow

even in weapons/jewelry its better than mothers sorrow

hell, even in jewelry and 2 heavy its better than mothers sorrow.

[Edited for bait]

Wolf81

I also notice the Treasure Hunter set is getting a buff in the spell damage from 100-171.
Though these sets like medusa are opinion of whether the bonus out weights the slot of using inner light and or potions for buffs.

the1andonlyskwex

Wolf81 wrote: »

I also notice the Treasure Hunter set is getting a buff in the spell damage from 100-171.
Though these sets like medusa are opinion of whether the bonus out weights the slot of using inner light and or potions for buffs.

Treasure hunter and rattlecage will never be desirable for people that don't mind chugging spell power pots. For everyone else, they're already viable as alternatives to the non-class sources of Major Prophecy and Sorcery (depending on the rest of your build, of course).

katorga

I wonder how many medusa staves and jewelry I have de-conned over the years, lol.

Vajrak

With a Sorc and Templar in the party (for Minor Sorcery and Minor Prophecy), and with Shadow Stone, Precise Weapon, and 2 Crit monster pieces -- you end up with a 93% crit rate...but only 3.7k Spell damage.

This does not seem like a bad trade.

Edit: That is with Shadow Stone and All Divines also, not Thief.

_Kaziel_

katorga wrote: »

I wonder how many medusa staves and jewelry I have de-conned over the years, lol.

Yea this is exactly what I've been thinking this past week... how many have I deconstructed since 2014 lol

Atherakhia

I lucked out. Got a lightning staff and inferno staff over the weekend to go along with a full suit of divines and all jewelry. I'll transmute the jewelry once the patch goes live as I don't trust ZOS enough to not make some last minute, unannounced change. But the weapons def drop. This set is fine as heavy as MagDKs have no problem with Elf Bane. This set change is good for the game. Now players can choose to run mother's sorrow and trap or this set. Unfortunately as a MagCro this won't allow me to play at range still because Blastbones doesn't work. But, no more trap is a good thing for me.

Tannus15

on raw stats sorrow still has the edge and is way more flexible from a build perspective because it's a light set, however i LOVE medusa now. It's so good to run.

I hit 89k on my mag sorc with perf siroria, front bar medusa, maw. The change to sorc pets to scale off spell damage is awesome.

I did try out the sorrow, medusa, zaan with thief build for a fun time and parsed 80k. it's fun to use, but is pretty far behind a BiS setup.

I honestly can't say which is better between medusa front bar or 2pc heavy and jewels, I think it'll depend on the other set. I'd probably prefer to run it front bar with false god and body with siroria for example.
Sorc doesn't spend a lot of time on the back bar, and tbh it only really matters for the spammable and frags anyway

katorga

Tannus15 wrote: »

The change to sorc pets to scale off spell damage is awesome.

I was thinking that myself. I just can't decide if I want to swap back to stamina to play with the new spammable morph and all the juicy proc sets or stay mag to play with the new frags.

Still haven't gotten medusa staves yet, grr, but have the jewels, legs and chest.

Rebiludo

Medusa + MS + Slimecraw + Shadow mundus + Kajhit + précise trait.

5 lights + 2 heavy for no Medusa back bar

=> Amazing selfheal (sorcerer)

=> Vampire stage 1 and blood for blood as spammable ?

universal_wrath

Wolf81 wrote: »

And Mother's Sorrow acutally gets a "tiny" boost: Increase the Spell Critical this set grants to 1937, up from 1924.

Now i'm trying to figure out which set to replace my necropotence with on my petsorc that can still be paired with MG...I don't have PFG just yet since I returned.

Fyi, sorcerer pets will scale with both spell damage and max magicka next patch as supposed to only scale with max magucka on live server.

MrBrownstone

Even if it is not a dps increase, i'd still use this instead of Mother's Sorrow. I just got lucky and dropped the whole set (yes, including the inferno Staff) in a single run. Can't wait to test it and if it works, I'm upgrading the jewelry

Koubo

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Even if it is not a dps increase, i'd still use this instead of Mother's Sorrow. I just got lucky and dropped the whole set (yes, including the inferno Staff) in a single run. Can't wait to test it and if it works, I'm upgrading the jewelry

I should really farm it too, just in case. I think i have jewl and 2 armor pieces for now and miss only the staff. I also should grab my monster set in light instead.

MashmalloMan

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I dont think they have ever changed set weights ever...they probably cant do it or the server melt

They changed Deadly Strike from Heavy to Medium so it's possible.. It was even more impressive because they actually moved it from the Heavy pvp seller to the Medium seller an update later.

Trust me.. nothing is impossible in terms of coding. It's just a matter of whether they want to or not.

Same reason it was possible for them to update everyones existing vet obtained DSA and MA weapons to perfected, but they chose not to. Forgive... but never forget

Edit.. Actually I never forgave them so I take that back. Never forgive.. Never forget.

YandereGirlfriend

If they changed it then Arx Corinium would be the only dungeon in the entire game to NOT follow the one heavy, one medium, one light set breakdown.

Why should they break established precedent simply to appease some folks who can't bring themselves to farm one of the easiest dungeons in the game?

And if someone then argues "Well, simply change Lamia's to Heavy!" then you are directly nerfing anyone who had already farmed that in body pieces, essentially dumpstering their entire set. That is hardly fair.

IMO, having sets drop in an off-weight adds nuance to builds and can force hard choices. Hard choices are, basically by definition, the most interesting choices and they are a hallmark of good game design.

Koubo

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

If they changed it then Arx Corinium would be the only dungeon in the entire game to NOT follow the one heavy, one medium, one light set breakdown.

Why should they break established precedent simply to appease some folks who can't bring themselves to farm one of the easiest dungeons in the game?

And if someone then argues "Well, simply change Lamia's to Heavy!" then you are directly nerfing anyone who had already farmed that in body pieces, essentially dumpstering their entire set. That is hardly fair.

IMO, having sets drop in an off-weight adds nuance to builds and can force hard choices. Hard choices are, basically by definition, the most interesting choices and they are a hallmark of good game design.

TBH i'm not that mad, i dont really see the impact for a MagDD but i use 2 Heavy piece AY (and Jewl) on my StamCro (with vDSA front bar) and i found it really nice & fine (will be even better next patch)