The huge downtick in quality from Summerset to Greymoor

mairwen85

Faulgor wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I kind of agree, Summerset has the deepest darkest quests. Like stab you in the hearts, super messed up stuff.

Elsweyr was a bit of change of pace but I didn't exactly dislike it, it was more traditional fantasy tropes but I think there is room for different kinds of chapters. Sometimes you want something a bit lighter.

I played only a little bit of Greymoor on the PTS and mostly the sidequests, I think the big difference is that a lot of the problems are super evil magic-related instead of interpersonal related like they are in summerset. When the problem is "evil magic" and obviously evil villains its not grey enough for the storytelling I want from ESO.

I think the problem is kind of having two chapters in a row like that rather than it being inherently bad.

I will note that Morrowind also had some very dark interpersonal conflicts going on that i liked.

I think that's a great summation. What makes for an interesting villain is not the cardboard cutout big bad, but someone who does bad things with the best intentions. If you have a noble goal, but the methods to achieve it are damaging, or dangerous (killmonger in the mcu for example) it makes for a much richer plot, and more so if it has an interpersonal (not bs political) twist. Black and white polarised story lines are dull, we need more grey area plots.

Rada al-Saran is actually an interesting villain IMO, because his real motivation is to free his Gray Host buddies from enslavement in Coldharbour. It's just not really featured in the actual story line, it's a literal side note in Blackreach somewhere.
Even Svargrim's motivation to look for power in dark places out of paranoia and fear for his kingdom could at least be understandable, but the execution is so disappointingly lackluster ...

I guess that highlights the problem in storytelling. It isn't forefront but an aside. It's skimmed out of character building and into obscura and footnotes.

WeerW3ir

I have been always told with summerset the story ended. Everything after it. Except the lizardland were lazy written and only fanservice and for our cash.

Elsweyr wasnt that bad. But why dragons?? Could have start an another subplot for the war. Oh wait. Right. The original lore writer left and now a team of writers trying to pull of the star wars sequels.

FierceSam

Pretty much agree with everything here.

Greymoor’s main quest was even less interesting than Elsweyr’s, although there was one moment when it seemed to threaten to get interesting... while the last section was just a tedious chase up some stairs that makes White Gold Tower seem like the pinnacle of storytelling...

As far as side quests go, ZOS have sacrificed originality for ‘fan favouritism’ and convenience. They know they have to create 30 odd quests, but they can just copy paste half of them by “bringing back fan favourites like Rigobert” and dumping the same shopping list quest on us. Similarly each main quest now sees us accompanied by “fan favourite Abnur or Lyris” as if their mere presence is supposed to blind us to poor storytelling.

Having completed Greymoor, I have no more idea about what constitutes Nord culture than I did when I started... I’ve found no Nord furniture recipes and gained no insight into the place other than it’s “Skyrim without actually being Skyrim”.

But Antiquities is a great system (although a total grindfest).

Nemesis7884

mairwen85 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I kind of agree, Summerset has the deepest darkest quests. Like stab you in the hearts, super messed up stuff.

Elsweyr was a bit of change of pace but I didn't exactly dislike it, it was more traditional fantasy tropes but I think there is room for different kinds of chapters. Sometimes you want something a bit lighter.

I played only a little bit of Greymoor on the PTS and mostly the sidequests, I think the big difference is that a lot of the problems are super evil magic-related instead of interpersonal related like they are in summerset. When the problem is "evil magic" and obviously evil villains its not grey enough for the storytelling I want from ESO.

I think the problem is kind of having two chapters in a row like that rather than it being inherently bad.

I will note that Morrowind also had some very dark interpersonal conflicts going on that i liked.

I think that's a great summation. What makes for an interesting villain is not the cardboard cutout big bad, but someone who does bad things with the best intentions. If you have a noble goal, but the methods to achieve it are damaging, or dangerous (killmonger in the mcu for example) it makes for a much richer plot, and more so if it has an interpersonal (not bs political) twist. Black and white polarised story lines are dull, we need more grey area plots.

that is a similar problem movies have as well, bad writing that thinks the story gets better if the scale and stakes just get bigger and the visuals more impressive while at the same time the story, characters and relationship dynamics get more shallow, tropy and predictable... thats just not how good storytelling works.... smaller more personal stories and deeper characters and relatio ships just makes you care more...

Czekoludek

Tbh I'm vs little afraid of the future of ESO lore and storytelling as this chapter was the first big story of our new loremaster. If it is an indicator of how good new stories will be, then prepare for dark times. Same story as with new combat team unfortunately

A_Silverius

Minimum effort. Maximum profit.

Faulgor

Czekoludek wrote: »

Tbh I'm vs little afraid of the future of ESO lore and storytelling as this chapter was the first big story of our new loremaster. If it is an indicator of how good new stories will be, then prepare for dark times. Same story as with new combat team unfortunately

I somehow - want to - doubt it has to do with Tuttle. I don't think the loremaster has that much say about the broader story that gets told or the particular dialog being written, his job is to say yay or nay in regards to things the writers want to do. Besides, he has given us Sotha Sil.

Further, I don't think this is down to one person. What we see is a decline in quality in multiple areas, safe for the environment. Artists keep knocking it out of the park.

Czekoludek

Faulgor wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Tbh I'm vs little afraid of the future of ESO lore and storytelling as this chapter was the first big story of our new loremaster. If it is an indicator of how good new stories will be, then prepare for dark times. Same story as with new combat team unfortunately

I somehow - want to - doubt it has to do with Tuttle. I don't think the loremaster has that much say about the broader story that gets told or the particular dialog being written, his job is to say yay or nay in regards to things the writers want to do. Besides, he has given us Sotha Sil.

Further, I don't think this is down to one person. What we see is a decline in quality in multiple areas, safe for the environment. Artists keep knocking it out of the park.

I'm not saying this is the fault of one man, just that this might be the sample of new vision how zos gonna treat the story elements from now. We can see big decline in story, performance, combat, even reusing assets (last year for example I think Elsweyr and Dragonhold share almost all assets which is really bad approach tbh and looks cheap af). ZOS clearly feels to confident, especially when on mmo market things might change soon (looks like shadowlands will be a greater dlc then BfA for WoW, we got more and more news about New World, etc). They profit for not very competitive market right now, not from the quality of their recent products.

Nemesis7884

Czekoludek wrote: »

Tbh I'm vs little afraid of the future of ESO lore and storytelling as this chapter was the first big story of our new loremaster. If it is an indicator of how good new stories will be, then prepare for dark times. Same story as with new combat team unfortunately

well the lore and the writing are two separate things though but yeah so far not convinced of writing and combat team as of recent tbh...

the only thing that still holds up is the art direction... and the combat team has also made a lot of promises about class identity and rework etc etc. and not much has happend resp. was delayed...

In recent months only a lot of promises about performance, skills, classes etc. but a lack of results and a decline in quality..recently there was this "cash cow" topic, I really do hope ZOS hasnt basically given up on eso with regards to putting resources in it and just have it "run out" focusing on their other project...

Dracane

mairwen85 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

My first reaction was to say: Look at Alinor and how lazy it is designed with aggressive clipping, ramps that lead into void and balconies with no doors so that NPCs could even enter them roleplay-wise.

But after reading, I have to agree. Summerset had indeed a lot more heart, even if in terms of world design, it is just as lazy if not lazier than Greymoor. They broke a lot of hearts with Summerset's architecture and design.

Maybe it is time to invite some different writers to bring some new air into the mix? Everything has become very predictable and the recipe is always the same. Which is only natural when it's always the same people writing.

Summerset was never going to live up to the promise of its description in lore. It was far removed from the majesty and wonder of all the writings in every previous TES game, but it was cohesive in its design, and coherent in its story telling. Personally, I found the story longwinded, but I agree with most posters here that the chapter marked the end of ESO quality on that front. Elsweyr was predictable, greymoor is a repeat of the same story different setting, and is lacklustre. The zone is visually very well done, I can't deny that, but what has always made ESO shine has been its expansion of TES lore and richness of its writing; that latter point has been nosediving sharply since Summerset.

Blackreach is indeed well done. But Skyrim above just bores me and whenever I look in the distance, I am met with this super obvious low resolution sticker which the entire background is made of. Normally, those 2D stickers are only noticeable in games when you really look at them directly or zoom in. But this background... the stuff of nightmares. This alone makes the upper part quite laughable and then this strange fake mist that's going on.

Dracane

FierceSam wrote: »

Pretty much agree with everything here.

Greymoor’s main quest was even less interesting than Elsweyr’s, although there was one moment when it seemed to threaten to get interesting... while the last section was just a tedious chase up some stairs that makes White Gold Tower seem like the pinnacle of storytelling...

As far as side quests go, ZOS have sacrificed originality for ‘fan favouritism’ and convenience. They know they have to create 30 odd quests, but they can just copy paste half of them by “bringing back fan favourites like Rigobert” and dumping the same shopping list quest on us. Similarly each main quest now sees us accompanied by “fan favourite Abnur or Lyris” as if their mere presence is supposed to blind us to poor storytelling.

Having completed Greymoor, I have no more idea about what constitutes Nord culture than I did when I started... I’ve found no Nord furniture recipes and gained no insight into the place other than it’s “Skyrim without actually being Skyrim”.

But Antiquities is a great system (although a total grindfest).

As far as I am concerned, I always hated Abnur Tharn with a passion. Arrogant creature until the end that always went against my personal beliefs. I always disliked him for trying to ressurect an Empire of a bygone age. And how he always dismisses our deeds and our importance. He always treats us like some servant while he is the grand master, although being but a foolish hag.

Lyris in the original mainstory had more color. She seemed vulnerable, sometimes even loveable and her shy romance with Sai Sahan was cute. Yes, I see how she came to be a fan favorite. I definately liked her a lot and saw her as a friendly character. But now? An obnoxious, tryhardy, rude Battle Axe swinging brat that has no patience and no sense for tactic. Is it because Sai is not there to keep her in check? Just like when I am physically away from my partner for too long. I start to become daring, venomous and bold and you know why that is...

I hope by next year, the five companions are finally being burried again and we do not have to endure them again.

YstradClud

One thing they have got a lot better at is their dungeons. Doing all the DLC dungeons for the first time has added a bit of extra story I didn't see before although Greymoor still has some new dungeons coming.

RaddlemanNumber7

Obviously, the pandemic has had an effect on the creative process. I know my own work has been badly affected by it.

I also wonder if Graymore had a shorter lead-in than usual due to a change in the planned order that zones were going to be released.

Remember the NPC Vigwenn Owl-Watcher in Southern Elsweyr? She said she wanted to go to Hammerfell next but she didn't have the ingredients she needed, so she was going to return to Skyrim and Blackreach instead. I read that as a not-very-subtle hint about a change in the plans for 2020, not the scheduled Hammerfell chapter, but instead bringing forward the 2021 Skyrim anniversary chapter a year early. As to why ZOS couldn't release Hammerfell, I guess it might have been because BGS weren't sufficiently ready with their plans for TES VI to allow the content of the two games to be harmonised.

TL;DR I don't see the state of Greymore as part of a trend, and I'm prepared to grin and bear it in these hard times.

BlueRaven

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Obviously, the pandemic has had an effect on the creative process. I know my own work has been badly affected by it.

I also wonder if Graymore had a shorter lead-in than usual due to a change in the planned order that zones were going to be released.

Remember the NPC Vigwenn Owl-Watcher in Southern Elsweyr? She said she wanted to go to Hammerfell next but she didn't have the ingredients she needed, so she was going to return to Skyrim and Blackreach instead. I read that as a not-very-subtle hint about a change in the plans for 2020, not the scheduled Hammerfell chapter, but instead bringing forward the 2021 Skyrim anniversary chapter a year early. As to why ZOS couldn't release Hammerfell, I guess it might have been because BGS weren't sufficiently ready with their plans for TES VI to allow the content of the two games to be harmonised.

TL;DR I don't see the state of Greymore as part of a trend, and I'm prepared to grin and bear it in these hard times.

At the end of wrothgar, there was a teaser for clockwork city, even though it was not the next zone to be released.

I believe zos has multiple teams, and the products we see alternate between them. I think right now the elsweyr team is working on the next big chapter story line.

Maxx7410

I think they are taking resources for others games maybe Starfield and the new Elder Scrolls

parpin

greymoor/skyrim was the shortest chapter of eso so far, it was smallest chapter.
most boring story of all chapters, bad guy was typical and generic, the entire main quest was typical and generic.
side quest were uninteresting and one of side quest in blackreach will reveal/giveaway the plot for main quest to some extent, when i did that quest i was like, oh now i know what is going on with entire skyrim, try to be as spoiler free as possible here.
harrowstorms are another lame open world event, super easy no team work required, just mindlessly kill everything you see for lame reward, lame event overall.
well you could put blame on pandemic but i hope the zone dlc coming at end of year will redeem this year's lame chapter.

scorpius2k1

Vrienda wrote: »

Greymoor disappointed me as a chapter.

Agreed 100% OP. This lack of quality started last year when they started splitting a chapter into two just to push an extra DLC purchase and label it "Year of the <insert catchphrase here>" the content feels entirely rushed and incomplete and definitely smaller zones than Summerset and prior. Then we talk about the extra costs we're paying now for the current state of ESO:

$40+ for the 1st half of the CHAPTER
$20 for the dungeon DLC
$20 for the 2nd half of the CHAPTER labeled as a "DLC"

That's a minimum of $80 just for the chapter. Roughly twice the cost and much, much less content of literally any other MMO's yearly expansion. Yes, we could argue the fact that ESO+ gives access to all DLC but also think that still costs $180 a year...well over what it would cost just to buy Chapters and 2 DLC outright. It's simple to just manage your inventory for a paywalled craftbag that shouldn't even be a thing in the first place. Crowns received with ESO+ are just a selling point, nothing more as it doesn't incur a cost to the company. Then we could add in the plethora of unearnable cosmetic items only available via yet another purchase (whether crowns or not, we pay for it in some way or the other). The P2A convenience features and last but not least, don't forget gem paywalls either that incur even more costs. The catchphrase here is "it's all optional"... sure...but is it really when you think about how this game is by design, a complex cash funnel that sucks us all into yet another purchase? This is why the game feels so shallow and unrewarding unless you grab your credit card, which we all have at one point or another. It's just too bad that for the huge return on their investment they aren't delivering the quality that is promised back to their playerbase year after year. That's a huge problem.

Case and point, I get it, a company has to make money to support it's investment. However, compared to other MMO's and practices in the current sham we call the "gaming industry" nowadays, ESO is quite rediculous with it's cost to play vs the lackluster experience we get in return. While ESO is certainly designed to be a cash machine, quality is absolutely abysmal while pricing has continued to skyrocket. It's not so much why they have done this to ESO, but how they've implemented it, and everyone is certainly taking notice.

We could also add in all the bugs and performance issues for a 6+ year old game... something we are paying top shelf AAA prices for that constantly feels like it's still in beta status, but that's already a topic "Elsweyr".

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Nemesis7884

Maxx7410 wrote: »

I think they are taking resources for others games maybe Starfield and the new Elder Scrolls

different studios

but zenimax - rumor has it - are also working on a new online game

LukosCreyden

I really hate that I agree.
Greymoor's story was very dull and the characters lacked any sort of appeal. In fact, look at Lyris. She was completely pointless. Lyris did nothing of value and was completely wasted to the point that you could delete her from the story and it would make little to no difference.

The story failed to grab my attention, was far too predictable and just didn't really GO anywhere.
I sure hope Q3 and Q4 are better, as we are stuck with this arc for the rest of the year. Not feeling overly motivated or intrigued by what the next part of the story will be, though.


I know the writers can do better than this. Much, much better. I just hope that this Chapter is a freak occurrence, rather than the new norm.

Ufretin

I have

Dracane wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Pretty much agree with everything here.

Greymoor’s main quest was even less interesting than Elsweyr’s, although there was one moment when it seemed to threaten to get interesting... while the last section was just a tedious chase up some stairs that makes White Gold Tower seem like the pinnacle of storytelling...

As far as side quests go, ZOS have sacrificed originality for ‘fan favouritism’ and convenience. They know they have to create 30 odd quests, but they can just copy paste half of them by “bringing back fan favourites like Rigobert” and dumping the same shopping list quest on us. Similarly each main quest now sees us accompanied by “fan favourite Abnur or Lyris” as if their mere presence is supposed to blind us to poor storytelling.

Having completed Greymoor, I have no more idea about what constitutes Nord culture than I did when I started... I’ve found no Nord furniture recipes and gained no insight into the place other than it’s “Skyrim without actually being Skyrim”.

But Antiquities is a great system (although a total grindfest).

As far as I am concerned, I always hated Abnur Tharn with a passion. Arrogant creature until the end that always went against my personal beliefs. I always disliked him for trying to ressurect an Empire of a bygone age. And how he always dismisses our deeds and our importance. He always treats us like some servant while he is the grand master, although being but a foolish hag.

Lyris in the original mainstory had more color. She seemed vulnerable, sometimes even loveable and her shy romance with Sai Sahan was cute. Yes, I see how she came to be a fan favorite. I definately liked her a lot and saw her as a friendly character. But now? An obnoxious, tryhardy, rude Battle Axe swinging brat that has no patience and no sense for tactic. Is it because Sai is not there to keep her in check? Just like when I am physically away from my partner for too long. I start to become daring, venomous and bold and you know why that is...

I hope by next year, the five companions are finally being burried again and we do not have to endure them again.

I haven't done the Greymoor quest line yet but this post makes me hop on this thread anyway
I loved Abnur (and Alfred Molina's voicing) in the original main quest and hated how they "softened" him in Elsweyr. He used to be a wonderfully arrogant and devious character you had to ally with out of necessity and became yet another shallow altruistic hero dotted with a few "funny" sarcastic lines.

Speaking of Elsweyr, I had a similar moment of disappointnment with Sai:



"Wait Sai, do you realize that I saved the world several times over, am one of the richest and best-connected figures in Tamriel, conquered the Ruby Throne by force and, above all, rescued your sorry hide from the Halls of Torment and saved your stupid sword-school from complete destruction?? And you DARE boss me around and adress me like a common recruit???"

Wouldn't have been too much to ask to add a few more lines to reflect players who completed the original main quest, would it?

As for Greymoor, I'm disappointed how Solitude and Morthal were made almost exact copies of their Skyrim counterparts even though there's an entire millennium in between. Compare that to the awesome job they did with Vivec City, where it almost felt like you'd jumped out of a time machine to discover the city in an earlier state of development...

LuxLunae

Well, I will say this only...

SummerSet was ...at least to my small knowledge of the TES series...was NEVER imagined in a single player game...

So they had the free reigns to do and create anything they wanted in it. Some people of the lore when summer set came out did say things "but in the lore it's like this.."

Honestly, I realize I am probably a casual because I only played Oblivion and Skyrim and read probably 1/3 the books in the game...

Now here comes Greymoor. This was a problem.

In my opinion, they should have went crazy with their own idea of the place and not let TES skyrim influence it. However, there are people in zenimax that wants to play on the "nostalgia" of skyrim.

It's obvious which one won.

However wth story could they have made in skyrim that wasn't already explored in skyrim? (no really tell me...)

shadyjane62

Yesterday was the first day I even looked at Greymoor since May. I was so underwhelming the day of opening I just ignored it while castigating myself for just blindly buying it.

That won't happen again.

Looking forward to PS5 launch.

Dracane

By the way, what ever became of the Direnni Tower Teaser?
When finishing the Direnni Acropolis in Summerset, the vengeful spirit escapes and speaks of her vengence against the Direnni and also flies off in that very direction.

Galwylin

For me they just had something to say about the previous expansions that they didn't have with Greymoor. Maybe it was because they got to establish something that hadn't been before. Even if Vvardenfell had been a subject for a game before they got to cut their teeth on how that setting is different years before that game so they were forced to into certain decisions but they didn't let that overwhelm them.

Skyrim seems to have overwhelmed them. Their big addition was the Grey Host area which seemed quite a bit one dimensional and not really a proper story but a small part of one. Like they took a small story and chopped it up hoping nostalgia would hide the edges. I think they took a wrong turn at is this fun to play and worth the weight we're trying to put on it. And really how are you going to expect to compete with the memory of Skyrim which was so full by not being ambitious to think you could.

Its a bit like they were afraid of looking bad they didn't take any risks. And it leaves you wondering if you didn't have anything to say why bother. I felt like the main quest was just a minor being stretched thinner and thinner.

Rowjoh

I'd just like to say that this is one of the most thoughtful, constructive and valid forum posts, full of well articulated and interesting points of view that should resonate with ZoS.

An 'awesome' to the OP for posting this

mairwen85

Galwylin wrote: »

For me they just had something to say about the previous expansions that they didn't have with Greymoor. Maybe it was because they got to establish something that hadn't been before. Even if Vvardenfell had been a subject for a game before they got to cut their teeth on how that setting is different years before that game so they were forced to into certain decisions but they didn't let that overwhelm them.

Skyrim seems to have overwhelmed them. Their big addition was the Grey Host area which seemed quite a bit one dimensional and not really a proper story but a small part of one. Like they took a small story and chopped it up hoping nostalgia would hide the edges. I think they took a wrong turn at is this fun to play and worth the weight we're trying to put on it. And really how are you going to expect to compete with the memory of Skyrim which was so full by not being ambitious to think you could.

I don't think its a case of they had nothing to say that hadn't been said. Nord culture is just as rich and deep as that of any other race in TES, and this game takes place before the single player games. I've never seen the stories of ESO as concrete TES lore, there is ancient lore, and lore established in the single player games, what ESO provides is decorative threads to that broad tapestry, and while certain things are and will be stitched out, there's plenty of room to expand and explore. The worst thing about the method of story telling in greymoor is that we have an escalating story that never reaches its peak because it constantly tells us via exposition what is going on instead of teasing and hinting at what's to come and allowing us to unpack the plot, a trend that began in the prologue. It tells us instead of showing us the story, we aren't experiencing it as such, but more observing it from very surface level interactions.

KMarble

Even though I've never played any ES game before ESO, I was able to enjoy the stories the game told - until Murkmire.

I think that if I started playing when Elsweyr came out, I wouldn't have stuck to the game. There were a lot of "secret handshakes" in it and the amount of "fans' favorites" they pushed into the story was too much. But at least I didn't have to go out and kill badies with an entourage of NPCs at my heels that made interacting with the environment a nightmare, like they did with Greymoor (why do I have to go around with 3 NPCs following me is beyond my comprehension).

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Obviously, the pandemic has had an effect on the creative process. I know my own work has been badly affected by it.

I also wonder if Graymore had a shorter lead-in than usual due to a change in the planned order that zones were going to be released.

Remember the NPC Vigwenn Owl-Watcher in Southern Elsweyr? She said she wanted to go to Hammerfell next but she didn't have the ingredients she needed, so she was going to return to Skyrim and Blackreach instead. I read that as a not-very-subtle hint about a change in the plans for 2020, not the scheduled Hammerfell chapter, but instead bringing forward the 2021 Skyrim anniversary chapter a year early. As to why ZOS couldn't release Hammerfell, I guess it might have been because BGS weren't sufficiently ready with their plans for TES VI to allow the content of the two games to be harmonised.

TL;DR I don't see the state of Greymore as part of a trend, and I'm prepared to grin and bear it in these hard times.

I'm pretty sure the story for Greymoor was already plotted and being "polished" by the time Elsweyr was released. Many of the bugs and glitches we've seen in Greymoor might be explained by them working from home, but not the story.

Dracane wrote: »

By the way, what ever became of the Direnni Tower Teaser?
When finishing the Direnni Acropolis in Summerset, the vengeful spirit escapes and speaks of her vengence against the Direnni and also flies off in that very direction.

Up until the end of the main year of the dragon story, I had hopes that one day those little loose ends would be addressed, but that hope died when they released Dragonhold*. It became clear to me that this is just a cheap way to make the stories feel deeper, without putting any effort into it.

Greymoor has at least 3 quests than end with an NPC hinting at something and then dismissing it. It felt to me like there could had been a good story there, but they didn't care to tell it or didn't have the skills to do so.

*

When the main story in N. Elsweyr ends you meet Tharn near the bank in Rimmen and he tells you he got a letter asking him to find out what will happen to the child born under the artificial eclipse, so he's leaving to S. Elsweyr to figure it out.
We're never told if he looked into it, and this is never mentioned again. (Yes, I know there is a "resolution" to this, but it's treated like it's nothing. I would think that the main hook to the final act of the year of the dragon would be at least mentioned in Dragonhold. I mean, they made it THE hook, and when we get there it was like "this? Everybody knows about it.")

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

By the way, what ever became of the Direnni Tower Teaser?
When finishing the Direnni Acropolis in Summerset, the vengeful spirit escapes and speaks of her vengence against the Direnni and also flies off in that very direction.

That quest can end in the player character either releasing her or keeping her in custody, but if she is needed as a villain in some later chapter, I guess they can always spin the story to have her released by someone else if your own choice was to imprison her again.

Summerset had quite a few of these memorable side quests. I wish they could find their way back to that level of writing.

WeerW3ir

LuxLunae wrote: »

Well, I will say this only...

SummerSet was ...at least to my small knowledge of the TES series...was NEVER imagined in a single player game...

So they had the free reigns to do and create anything they wanted in it. Some people of the lore when summer set came out did say things "but in the lore it's like this.."

Honestly, I realize I am probably a casual because I only played Oblivion and Skyrim and read probably 1/3 the books in the game...

Now here comes Greymoor. This was a problem.

In my opinion, they should have went crazy with their own idea of the place and not let TES skyrim influence it. However, there are people in zenimax that wants to play on the "nostalgia" of skyrim.

It's obvious which one won.

However wth story could they have made in skyrim that wasn't already explored in skyrim? (no really tell me...)

Except they went with the nostalgia train most of the times. While in summerset they basicly pulled off a story which lore wisely added more than elsweyr and greymoor combined and could have been a *** full Elder Scrolls title.

Hell. even Murkmire added more into the lore. Elsweyr added and took as well. Greymoor did added 1-2 thing but more likely just made a lot of plotholes and questions.

Like. Why you not even heard abour Greymoor in Skyrim? Why everybody talking about that there is only one big blackreach there? and there is no 2nd cave which we see in ESO. Also Dwarven Timemachine and headsets. Really?
Or how about the dragons? why noone remembers the dragons in tamriel? only the nords 2 era later and they claim nobody seen dragons since the dragon break. Not even talking about that. the temple should have contain the Numidium.

Lord-Otto

LuxLunae wrote: »

Well, I will say this only...

SummerSet was ...at least to my small knowledge of the TES series...was NEVER imagined in a single player game...

So they had the free reigns to do and create anything they wanted in it. Some people of the lore when summer set came out did say things "but in the lore it's like this.."

Honestly, I realize I am probably a casual because I only played Oblivion and Skyrim and read probably 1/3 the books in the game...

Now here comes Greymoor. This was a problem.

In my opinion, they should have went crazy with their own idea of the place and not let TES skyrim influence it. However, there are people in zenimax that wants to play on the "nostalgia" of skyrim.

It's obvious which one won.

However wth story could they have made in skyrim that wasn't already explored in skyrim? (no really tell me...)

Summerset was in the first game, "Arena". As was every province. Due to technical limitations, presentation was extremely poor, of course. Notable features compared to the other provinces in that game were good weather with blue skies, green meadows and very vibrant architecture.
I think ESO actually did a good job with Alinor, it is very gorgeous and fits the theme. It's not how in-game books describe it, but the technical limitations of an MMO just don't allow this. If we're lucky, TES VII will conclude the Thalmor story in their homeland and we will see something closer to the book description. I don't think we'll see a TES VII ever, though.