Ballgroup cyrodill infestation

Tigor

DTAmoral wrote: »

Ball grouping is the end game for PvP. Get 10 people together, set up all your skills, and gear to work off your teammates, and then go wipe everyone..

It is raising a lot of questions.

What does reaching the end game means? How can that be done if new content is frequently added?

The topic of this post was: Ballgroup cyrodill infestation

Are there really players that want to play in a Ball group? Or are many players mainly in a ball group, because they are fed up with ballgroups and therefore creating an anti-ballgroup ballgroup to score something? Do ballgroups even like to fight anti-ballgroups

How can the non-ball group players distinguish what kind of ball group they are dealing with?

And then there are ofc the technical limitations of what the server can handle. From my experience it is often going over the edge and there is totally nothing that controlls it. Or are the disconnections meant to have that role?

I hope not.

technohic

Well; I have said it before and its really up to ZOS on whether that's what they want their combat to look like. I personally like the more, self buffing and healing while fighting rather than so heavy stacking and role assumption; but I think ZOS, wittingly or not; has shown that this is what they want, TBH. I'd suggest fleeing to battlegrounds but they seem to be intent on just setting off procs there as well.

It really feels the same as holding out hope for performance fixes, to be sitting here hoping for some change in the effectiveness of balling up. At some point, it probably is healthier to just accept it and move on or deal with it. Or just give in and join one as well.

Tammany

DTAmoral wrote: »

You know ball grouping is the end game for PvP.

These ballgroups trully think they are pinnacle of pvp meanwhile just niche game mechanic abusers.

Already dreaming of slotting few support skills and run around 15 friends spamming these skills 4 hours straight
Woah endgame pvp.
In fact i like the idea there are more and more ballabusers every day - the more ballgroups we have, the faster zos gonna open their eyes. When most puggers are gone, you have nothing left but fight other ballgroups, and according to my observations you are not doing it willingly - tripple funny to wipe unorgranized puggers.

Anyway "join them" is a worst suggestion, did not expect ballgroup member does have better one.

Nevidyra

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

For me, the big issue, is the time consumption we use for their fun. Sure, ballgroups are entertained for those 45 minutes to an hour of wall running, with zero intent to do anything else, but for everyone else it’s just a big bleh.

Noone enjoys fighting a ball group. ^

Tammany

VaranisArano wrote: »

So...just curious...would you like to explain exactly how gankers and ball groups are literally against the rules of ESO?

Group que was not against TOS as well yet removed due to constant premades leave no chance for puggers.
Funny fact, because premading is a standart thing for mmorpg games. Like, very common ?

And yet we have ballgrouping on the opposite side: these are not simply geared players gathered in one party - these are smart kiddies who blantanlty abuse game mechanic in their favor - i believe ESO is the one mmorpg game left in 2020 year wich allows you to stack multiple effects of the SAME heal/shield spell, kekw.

That goes so absurd ballabusers able to cover themsels in shields almost equal to their high health pool.
And so here is our abuser runs into a crowd of randoms exploding with detonation, spamming whirling blades literally facetanking all incoming damage. Damage broke the shield ? No worries, multiple layers of vigor get you up so fast you ca not blink an eye. End game pvp ayyy

SmukkeHeks

Tonight was brutal. B. R. U. T. A. L.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - is the Eu server getting a visit from that team? Or anybody with the ability to fix that mess? Are anyone ever inside cyrodill, or are we totally ignored?

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

As we've removed a few comments that were baiting and rude, this is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules to avoid thread derailment.

SmukkeHeks

ZOS_TrishM wrote: »

Greetings,

As we've removed a few comments that were baiting and rude, this is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules to avoid thread derailment.

You could also answer the direct question to the team with sole access to those, who theoretically should fix this?

xshatox

DTAmoral wrote: »

Ball grouping is the end game for PvP. Get 10 people together, set up all your skills, and gear to work off your teammates, and then go wipe everyone..

The only people that should wipe Ball Groups, are Ball Groups. If you are a solo player, small scale player, or zergling, you will die to a good ball group. Thats what Ball Groups do.

[snip]

*signed a ball grouper*

[snip] If your idea of end game pvp is people telling you what to wear, what skill to slot, when to move and how to move then maybe yes. Even when to play since most normal ball group can not function if they lose few members. All one needed for ballgroup is 1 or 2 very good people coordinating them. Thats why only few ball group actually good at least in pcna only few known good ball group currently like drac, ve, tkg and probably few others.

[edited for bashing]

idk

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Imagine still thinking in 2020 that nerfing skill X/Y/Z will do something to ball groups

So true. Zos has tried a variety of means to weaken zergs but it never has had a great effect and is often switched back. Nothing beats good old strategy and good leadership for a small group to be able to wipe out a zerg.

I still find it odd the title claims there is an infestation of ball groups in Cyrodiil when we have fewer players participating in the large zergs than we used to have.

AmoralOne

Tigor wrote: »

It is raising a lot of questions.

What does reaching the end game means? How can that be done if new content is frequently added?

Are there really players that want to play in a Ball group? Or are many players mainly in a ball group, because they are fed up with ballgroups and therefore creating an anti-ballgroup ballgroup to score something?

Do ballgroups even like to fight anti-ballgroups?

@Tigor To best answer your questions, end game PvP is when you have reached that max point where there is nothing more for you to do. Your builds are perfected, you make slight changes with every patch. The only content left would be to ball group, or if you prefer solo, or small scale that is isnt own thing, but below ball groups.

Usually a ball group is going to be made up of 10 players from X guild with sets, and skills that work off of each other. I.E. NegateSorcs, into Necro Slappys. Stuff like that, and theres always 1 person calling the shots, for the most part its the GM of the guild, but sometimes other people will make calls, and be crown.

Anti-ball groups would just be another ball group. Which is exactly what any good ball grouper wants to fight. Wiping zergs is fun sometimes, but theres no challenge cause they are all randoms that just stand there and VD the guy next to him. However in BG v BG you know that the people you are fighting are just like you, and know you need to prove whos better. Those are the most fun times iv ever had in PvP.

I think that answers most of the questions. Im happy to answer any other questions about ball groups for you.

Tammany

DTAmoral wrote: »

Which is exactly what any good ball grouper wants to fight. Wiping zergs is fun sometimes, but theres no challenge cause they are all randoms that just stand there and VD the guy next to him.

Thats why yesterday in non cp two ballgroups dueled for 20 minutes near fare and were clearing puggers for 3+ hours after.
Thats why red brave ballgroup dissapears right after few wipes by vodka group and focuses only on yellow pugger side.
Because they all are challengers(nope) and seek for a challenge (according to forum posts only).

AmoralOne

xshatox wrote: »

[snip] If your idea of end game pvp is people telling you what to wear, what skill to slot, when to move and how to move then maybe yes. Even when to play since most normal ball group can not function if they lose few members. All one needed for ballgroup is 1 or 2 very good people coordinating them. Thats why only few ball group actually good at least in pcna only few known good ball group currently like drac, ve, tkg and probably few others.

@xshatox Not sure what you are trying to say.. Yes a ball group is a coordinated group with 1 person calling the shots? Thats exactly why ball groups are as strong as they are. You can have your zerg of 40 people but if nobody knows when to drop ults, or roll dodge, then you all die to the 10 man that is making every call out in chat. Also yes you work with your guild to wear the correct gear to be as good as possible.

AmoralOne

Tammany wrote: »

And yet we have ballgrouping on the opposite side: these are not simply geared players gathered in one party - these are smart kiddies who blantanlty abuse game mechanic in their favor - i believe ESO is the one mmorpg game left in 2020 year wich allows you to stack multiple effects of the SAME heal/shield spell, kekw.

That goes so absurd ballabusers able to cover themsels in shields almost equal to their high health pool.
And so here is our abuser runs into a crowd of randoms exploding with detonation, spamming whirling blades literally facetanking all incoming damage. Damage broke the shield ? No worries, multiple layers of vigor get you up so fast you ca not blink an eye. End game pvp ayyy

@Tammany As a ball grouper myself I am 100% on board with you when it comes to multiple of the same effects stacking. They need to look at this. We shouldn't be able to walk around with 10+ stacks of radiating regeneration on our bars, but we do.

I think even if you change this ball groups will still be top dawgs, and only able to be defeated by other ball groups. Coordination is everything.

AmoralOne

Tammany wrote: »

Thats why yesterday in non cp two ballgroups dueled for 20 minutes near fare and were clearing puggers for 3+ hours after.
Thats why red brave ballgroup dissapears right after few wipes by vodka group and focuses only on yellow pugger side.
Because they all are challengers(nope) and seek for a challenge (according to forum posts only).

To be fair I did say good ball groups. If your group gets wiped once, and you dip then you're not a good group. If you are running in a ball group and you see another ball group in front of you. You should, and most likely will fight. If you lose and run to the other side of the map, and play scared from them, then you should probs disband your group..

Tigor

DTAmoral wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

It is raising a lot of questions.

What does reaching the end game means? How can that be done if new content is frequently added?

Are there really players that want to play in a Ball group? Or are many players mainly in a ball group, because they are fed up with ballgroups and therefore creating an anti-ballgroup ballgroup to score something?

Do ballgroups even like to fight anti-ballgroups?

@Tigor To best answer your questions, end game PvP is when you have reached that max point where there is nothing more for you to do. Your builds are perfected, you make slight changes with every patch. The only content left would be to ball group, or if you prefer solo, or small scale that is isnt own thing, but below ball groups.

Usually a ball group is going to be made up of 10 players from X guild with sets, and skills that work off of each other. I.E. NegateSorcs, into Necro Slappys. Stuff like that, and theres always 1 person calling the shots, for the most part its the GM of the guild, but sometimes other people will make calls, and be crown.

Anti-ball groups would just be another ball group. Which is exactly what any good ball grouper wants to fight. Wiping zergs is fun sometimes, but theres no challenge cause they are all randoms that just stand there and VD the guy next to him. However in BG v BG you know that the people you are fighting are just like you, and know you need to prove whos better. Those are the most fun times iv ever had in PvP.

I think that answers most of the questions. Im happy to answer any other questions about ball groups for you.

Thank you for the answers. It gives a good view in the ballgroup reasons, mechanics and tactics. And I see no reason to have anything against that when it is competetive pvp.

However I would like to add a footnote here. It works only when the server could discriminate between a ballgroups and other groups/solo players. Now it strongly looks as if ballgroups can abuse the situation in their favor.

Players don't like to see that, is my experience. We win some fights, loose some, take a keep here and there for the campaign.

And then ballgroups are coming online, and the real mayhem starts. ZOS please give the ballgroups an endgame server were they can fight each other, so they will not bother the rest of us, and name that campaign "the final challenge".

T@rty

I'd just like to see siege weapons / oil actually hurt, as they did when there was a patch error. Multiple siege weapons all firing at the same target should not be so easily healed through as is the current situation

SRASinister

Anti ballgroup is not another ballgroup btw. Antiballgroups are either a bomber or 2 harmony users.

vamp_emily

They should have a ranged weapon that totally destroys ball groups. Something like a rocket launcher with cruise missile technology.

Kartalin

vamp_emily wrote: »

They should have a ranged weapon that totally destroys ball groups. Something like a rocket launcher with cruise missile technology.

A coordinated activation of inevitable detonation at a group would be interesting to see I think, especially if one person hit purge you'd have 6 explode at once. Or a group where everyone uses a 2h Masters weapon. Hitting their dps with vanguards challenge and cutting damage by 35% (tricky to keep in range though). MAJOR EVASION. There are ideas out there already that are useful/intriguing but everyone is lazy and just wants for ZOS to do the work for them instead.

Oh and for those that think we still use cleanse/purge spammers, basically every person in our group runs some kind of purge, whether it's templar ritual, warden netch, or the efficient purge skill. Even on my bomber.

Tammany

DTAmoral wrote: »

A coordinated activation of inevitable detonation at a group would be interesting to see I think, especially if one person hit purge you'd have 6 explode at once. Or a group where everyone uses a 2h Masters weapon. Hitting their dps with vanguards challenge and cutting damage by 35% (tricky to keep in range though). MAJOR EVASION. There are ideas out there already that are useful/intriguing but everyone is lazy and just wants for ZOS to do the work for them instead.

How about you log in and demonstrate your theory on practice outside of being in a ballgroup ?
Make a video how you fight ballgroup as a pugger, would like to see how your forum theorycraft goes right to the drain.

vesselwiththepestle

Kartalin wrote: »

A coordinated activation of inevitable detonation at a group would be interesting to see I think, especially if one person hit purge you'd have 6 explode at once.

I agree there are alternatives to ball group fighting (and I have experienced them myself). That said, it requires a lot of coordination and when you come to that point most groups just start a ball group of their own. Because it's easier and it seems to be the most effective way to play. Also those "alternative tactics" groups would be easily able to farm PUGs themselves.

Kartalin

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

A coordinated activation of inevitable detonation at a group would be interesting to see I think, especially if one person hit purge you'd have 6 explode at once.

I agree there are alternatives to ball group fighting (and I have experienced them myself). That said, it requires a lot of coordination and when you come to that point most groups just start a ball group of their own. Because it's easier and it seems to be the most effective way to play. Also those "alternative tactics" groups would be easily able to farm PUGs themselves.

Tbh the idea of defeating a coordinated group with an uncoordinated one is pretty silly, unless the number of uncoordinated players surpasses whatever number (varies per guild) of constantly rezzing/respawning zerglings it takes to finally bring down the group.

technohic

The most irritating thing is, no matter where you go; when a couple of ball groups are running, you can tell because the lag gets worse. That's really on ZOS and maybe because of the collection of PUGs gathered near the ball group, but still doesn't make me hate ball groups any less for it.

Nevidyra

technohic wrote: »

The most irritating thing is, no matter where you go; when a couope ball groups are running, you can tell because the lag gets worse. That's really on ZOS and may be because of the collection of PUGs gathered near the ball group, but still doesn't make me hate ball groups any less for it.

I've seen Ball Groups defend themselves by saying "We're not the cause of the lag, the pugs are!"

Ball Groups are the cause of the lag, just as much as the pugs. Why? With the abuse of crosshealing, the uncoordinated players need 60-100 to take them down. Even then, it can take dozens of minutes. If the effectiveness of cross-healing is tweaked and balanced properly, you won't see so many players having to stack in the same place to even have a fighting chance.

"Just make a Ball Group to counter the Ball Group!" - And when one group wipes and decides to just go farm pugs somewhere else on the map, it's only making the problem that much worse.

Any time I see a Ball Group in a keep, there is endless complaining from people there and in zone chat. Noone enjoys Ball Group battles but the Ball Groups themselves. Both are the reasons for the lag.

Dojohoda

There's not enough organized groups. Used to, all factions had them and they fought each other. Game performance issues caused many to stop running.

I was in one long ago and when it was my turn to drop my ultimate, the dern button would not work. So, I bowed out of the guild. That guild no longer exists as an organized group as many of the players have moved to another game.

Fast forward to this year, I tried another organized guild, but this one was quite a bit more casual. Within one month, they stopped running altogether because of dismal game performance. Some are playing a different game.

Hate them or love them, the fact that some are still running means Cyrodill PVP hasn't completely died yet. We need good game performance and MOAR organized groups.

Meanwhile, use negates and CC's on them. If you are grouped try to get your teammates to cc/negate/ulti dump on them.

Tammany

Dojohoda wrote: »

Hate them or love them, the fact that some are still running means Cyrodill PVP hasn't completely died yet.

Ballgroups are the second reason why some people refuse to play Cyrodill, first one is performance.
Even ballgroups do not like to fight other ballgroups - they duel 20 minutes maximum and *** pugs for 5 hours.

Ackwalan

There's a reason why ballgroups will avoid ballgroups from another alliance.

Kadoin

Tammany wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Hate them or love them, the fact that some are still running means Cyrodill PVP hasn't completely died yet.

Ballgroups are the second reason why some people refuse to play Cyrodill, first one is performance.
Even ballgroups do not like to fight other ballgroups - they duel 20 minutes maximum and *** pugs for 5 hours.

And don't forget if the PUGs win with lesser numbers than the ballgroups they return with entire faction and pretend they didn't call them...

Icarus42

We all know this, anyone who has PvP'd in cyrodiil. Every time you approach a ballgroup it is like the event horizon of a black hole, and you end up entering a lag infested time warp. It is just hilarious to me how some of these people so vigorously defend this playstyle. Of course I realize that ZoS has put these mechanics into the game and people will use them, my problem is that people actively choose to play this way, which directly or indirectly negatively affects other peoples experience. Of course you can say hey you can just choose to not fight them etc. However that goes out the door when they are inside your main keep running around on the walls farming pugs. With no objective in mind except it seems to be as annoying as possible, or so it seems. We have all experienced this time and again from certain guilds, who dont even try to capture the flags instead they sit upstairs in the keep waiting for pugs to run into their little web of doom. I guess that is fun for them? IDK.

I call BS to all those who defend ballgroups because of this. IMO ballgroups should go on to there own camp and stay there.