Vampirism feels like it should now. Great job.

Selminus · July 4

When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.

Nova_J · July 4

Lol

SlimeBro1 · July 4

Selminus wrote: »

When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.

It is better with only 1 melee-magicka damage skill and no gapcloser or reliable CC? And most skills not being viable in vet-dungeon PvE at all? (except blood for blood)

Right now the current iteration feels off to me, more so than the last one. Mainly because it looks like they just half-baked what should of been a vampire lord.

Lord-Otto · July 4

Have you played a main Elder Scrolls game before? As a vampire?

Fur_like_snow · July 4

Vampire bis for RP.

karekiz · July 4

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Vampire bis for RP.

And raids

Vevvev · July 4

karekiz wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Vampire bis for RP.

And raids

But only if you use the spammable and refuse to touch Blood Frenzy, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize.

SlimeBro1 · July 4

Vevvev wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Vampire bis for RP.

And raids

But only if you use the spammable and refuse to touch Blood Frenzy, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize.

And isn't even the ultimate and mistform bad in raids? Some of my raider friends who are more experienced than me have said the ult isn't really worth using in raids for the most part.

It's just a lesser bone colossus?

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 4

[snip], most of you only took Vampirism for a a single passive and now think the Skillline is bad just because it does not cater to your build, well guess what it is a large improvement on my build, I use Stealth all the time so Unnatural Movement is handy, Blood to Blood is my main DPS and with my Siphon attacks i never run out of resources and have killed plenty of players with it, with Simmering Frenzy I can get over 5k Spell Power on my Mageblade, a few times i have even managed to hit 6k Spell Power, even Hypnotize has gotten me a victory now and again.

The old Vampire system only had 2 Skills and 1 Ultimate, 1 of which was useless and still is, a passive that only activated when you were at 50% health and a rather insignificant 10% boost to Stamina and Magic regeneration, the only useful passive was Dark Stalker, the new Vampire system though, the Blood Scion Ultimate is probably one of the most powerful Ultimates in the game, 10,000 extra health, magic and stamina gives a monstrous damage boost to attacks because they scale off of max stats, Undeath is better because it is always active now instead of just at 50% health, there are more abilities to make use of.

If you do not feel like a Vampire with your Templar Vampire then maybe you should try a class that syncs well with it like IDK a Nightblade, of course your not going to feel like a Vampire when your primary means of attack is spamming light spells.

[edited for bashing]

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 5

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Vampire bis for RP.

And raids

But only if you use the spammable and refuse to touch Blood Frenzy, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize.

And isn't even the ultimate and mistform bad in raids? Some of my raider friends who are more experienced than me have said the ult isn't really worth using in raids for the most part.

It's just a lesser bone colossus?

It is better then Bone Goliath, Bone Goliath only gives you extra health but does not boost Magic or Stamina which are more important, many deadly builds do not have more then 30k health.

Ratzkifal · July 5

If by "feels like it should" you mean we are special snow-flake vampires unlike any other in the world of Tamriel (thus denying us the actual roleplaying experience of what it would be like to be a regular vampire in that world), then yes, it is as it should be.

Personally I preferred it the "normal" way, but we got lore explanations for it and the regular players that skips all dialogue seem to like it better this way so I guess we have to live (or unlive) with it now. Other than that, mechanically speaking, it is definitely an improvement eitherway.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 5

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If by "feels like it should" you mean we are special snow-flake vampires unlike any other in the world of Tamriel (thus denying us the actual roleplaying experience of what it would be like to be a regular vampire in that world), then yes, it is as it should be.

Personally I preferred it the "normal" way, but we got lore explanations for it and the regular players that skips all dialogue seem to like it better this way so I guess we have to live (or unlive) with it now. Other than that, mechanically speaking, it is definitely an improvement eitherway.

To be fair that explanation seems like utter [snip], there were plenty of Vampires in the lore which implied feeding made them stronger, even Fennorian feeds to heal and get stronger by feeding and he is not of our Bloodline.

Even in Skyrim the Vampire Lord form gained perks which made them stronger and guess how they gained those perks..

By biting people.

[edited for profanity]

Vevvev · July 5

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Vampire bis for RP.

And raids

But only if you use the spammable and refuse to touch Blood Frenzy, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize.

And isn't even the ultimate and mistform bad in raids? Some of my raider friends who are more experienced than me have said the ult isn't really worth using in raids for the most part.

It's just a lesser bone colossus?

Lesser Bone colossus in terms of health but in terms of damage output its ridiculous. Get Swarming Scion with a 100% damage dealing build and you'll be giving tanks a run for their money with the damage you'll be putting out.

With that out of the way the bad part of this vampire rework is the lack of synergies for group play. There are very few ways the vampire's tool kit can support groups and the non-vampire cost can cut into sustain at the higher vampire stages if you are into group support. This is why the current vampire playstyle only really helps magicka damage dealers and PVPers looking for a little more burst.

It can be fun if you do it right but honestly it just doesn't feel like an Elder Scrolls vampire. Especially with what Ratzkifal has said on the matter.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If by "feels like it should" you mean we are special snow-flake vampires unlike any other in the world of Tamriel (thus denying us the actual roleplaying experience of what it would be like to be a regular vampire in that world), then yes, it is as it should be.

Personally I preferred it the "normal" way, but we got lore explanations for it and the regular players that skips all dialogue seem to like it better this way so I guess we have to live (or unlive) with it now. Other than that, mechanically speaking, it is definitely an improvement eitherway.

WrathOfInnos · July 5

Not a fan myself. One overpowered spammable (Blood for Blood) has made vamp mandatory on 4/6 classes for PVE. It’s done significant harm to class identity (DKs don’t use whip, Templars don’t use Sweep or Vamp Bane, Nightblades don’t use Swallow or sometimes cripple, Wardens don’t use Cliff Racer or Deep Fissure). Even if BFB didn’t hit like a truck, the state of sustain would still make it a required skill, especially on DK and Templar. It’s not like there are many other sustain options left after the nerfs to recovery foods (clockwork and witchmothers) and the recent changes to Grundwulf (someone really needs to review the numbers on this one, I think a math error was made).

The rest of the skills are still pretty uninteresting, and the cost increase to non-vamp skills reduces build flexibility.

Fur_like_snow · July 5

Last patch it worked on all classes this patch everyone cures vampire unless you’re a PvP NB? So grats to that niche playstyle I guess. The cost increase keeps most at level 1 which you forget to mention in your glowing review.

Just to be clear I don’t think vampire this patch is bad or even worse it just needs some adjustments. But from a dev POV they prob looked at the situation and decided they didn’t want a server full of vampires anymore which is fair. My biggest complaint is that if vampire is slated to be magicka it needs at least one ranged morph(Arterial burst) forcing players into melee range and the cost increase of non vamp skills just doesn’t vibe with many magicka builds.

Gilvoth · July 5

Vampirism is Much better now and perfect. i like it this way better than it was previously.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · July 5

Yes, hurray for more class identity lost and loss of diversity. Players complaining about the evils of taking it for a passive last patch, and now every magic class runs it for one single move, with vampirism still being bis, mostly for parsing. So much for that.

SlimeBro1 · July 5

Gilvoth wrote: »

Vampirism is Much better now and perfect. i like it this way better than it was previously.

I don't think it is perfect.

Many people on here seem to have valid complaints.

Melee focused spammable when magicka isn't a melee-thing, lack of gap closer, lore-rough ups, lack of ranged damage.

The rework is neater than before I hear, but perfect? That's a bit of a stretch.

SlimeBro1 · July 5

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Yes, hurray for more class identity lost and loss of diversity. Players complaining about the evils of taking it for a passive last patch, and now every magic class runs it for one single move, with vampirism still being bis, mostly for parsing. So much for that.

The ironic thing here is that the mage classes are taking it for a *melee* ability.

Ratzkifal · July 5

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If by "feels like it should" you mean we are special snow-flake vampires unlike any other in the world of Tamriel (thus denying us the actual roleplaying experience of what it would be like to be a regular vampire in that world), then yes, it is as it should be.

Personally I preferred it the "normal" way, but we got lore explanations for it and the regular players that skips all dialogue seem to like it better this way so I guess we have to live (or unlive) with it now. Other than that, mechanically speaking, it is definitely an improvement eitherway.

To be fair that explanation seems like utter [snip], there were plenty of Vampires in the lore which implied feeding made them stronger, even Fennorian feeds to heal and get stronger by feeding and he is not of our Bloodline.

Even in Skyrim the Vampire Lord form gained perks which made them stronger and guess how they gained those perks..

By biting people.

The matter has been settled by now, don't even try to start this argument up again.
When the loremaster was asked about it, the reply was that Lamae changed her blood through alchemy and other means to spite Molag Bal and invert vampirism to the reverse of what Bal had intended.
That makes it absolutely clear that the regular vampire of Tamriel gets weaker/more human by feeding, allowing them to blend in better, and they/their curse gets more powerful/monsterous the longer they go without mortal blood. If that wasn't the case, Lamae would not have needed to experiment on her bloodline at all.

Even in Skyrim the vampire lord was at its strongest when starved, even though you unlock new skills through biting, they are at their most potent when going without feeding.
None of the previously existing examples supporting your claim were solid. All of them were ambiguous at best. That the opposite is true for a lot of if not most vampires can't be denied though because it has been ingrained in game mechanics from Oblivion to ESO (with Morrowind and Daggerfall not having any stages at all, thus not counting towards either side of the argument) as well as lore.

Feeding to heal is not a valid argument either. The more you go without feeding, the more you lose your humanity and the more (un)dead you become. Corpses don't heal their wounds on their own. This was reflected in the old vampire passives and still is in the new ones as well, with your health recovery being low or completely negated at high stages of vampirism. So in order for Fennorian to heal, he would need to feed, because feeding makes him more human.
Of course this doesn't prove my point either, since you can accredit the healing to magical life drain too. That is why the point is simply invalid, as it does not prove anything for anyone.

The only case that cannot be dismissed is that of this one Khajiiti vampire that refused to feed and got weaker for it. That's it. One vampire (and her clan) against pretty much all the rest across three games, including even Lamae if it wasn't for her experiments.

Player vampirism in ESO is something else now than mainstream Elder Scrolls vampirism and that's a fact.
So be glad that things are currently going the way you want instead of starting up old arguments by proclaiming the exception as the rule.

Red_Feather · July 5

I really like it.

The invisibility is really convenient for traveling.
The mist being a toggle is really nice too.
The spammable that uses up health is very useful in some cases.

I don't use Fury or Drain at all, not sure about those.

Cillion3117 · July 5

I just wish there was some stamina options with it now.

Lord-Otto · July 5

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If by "feels like it should" you mean we are special snow-flake vampires unlike any other in the world of Tamriel (thus denying us the actual roleplaying experience of what it would be like to be a regular vampire in that world), then yes, it is as it should be.

Personally I preferred it the "normal" way, but we got lore explanations for it and the regular players that skips all dialogue seem to like it better this way so I guess we have to live (or unlive) with it now. Other than that, mechanically speaking, it is definitely an improvement eitherway.

To be fair that explanation seems like utter [snip], there were plenty of Vampires in the lore which implied feeding made them stronger, even Fennorian feeds to heal and get stronger by feeding and he is not of our Bloodline.

Even in Skyrim the Vampire Lord form gained perks which made them stronger and guess how they gained those perks..

By biting people.

That is not correct. You did not feed to get those perk points. You executed an enemy, it's an XP system. I never reduced my stage by getting vamp lord perks, because it wasn't feeding. And not a literal bite was needed, a killing blow with the Drain Life spell worked as well and was actually much better.

ProfesseurFreder · July 5

For myself, I can't get used to the whole concept of feeding to increase your vampirism stage. . . if vampirism is a curse, then it should be the other way around, as it was before. Not complaining, really, it is what it is, and I expect that I'll get used to it just around the time that they decide to change it again. . .

Fischblut · July 5

I hate the changes to vampirism

I never used any vampire skills on my characters, vampirism was only for the looks. My two vampires were looking so good at stage 4...
After Greymoor, they stay on stage 1 and look much worse without their yellow feral eyes; they still don't use any vampire skills, and on top of this they always take additional damage from fire and have cost of all their skills increased... It's so stupid.

It feels like I've lost two of my belowed characters

I wish we could have skins for different vampirism stages in our Collections (as reward for Vampirism Master, or from crown store) - I would simply cure my vampires, and use stage 4 skins on them. Just to have same looks as they had for years

Weesacs · July 5

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Selminus wrote: »

When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.

It is better with only 1 melee-magicka damage skill and no gapcloser or reliable CC? And most skills not being viable in vet-dungeon PvE at all? (except blood for blood)

Right now the current iteration feels off to me, more so than the last one. Mainly because it looks like they just half-baked what should of been a vampire lord.

I agree 100% with this. I use mist form in PvP with the other active skills being useless (the passives are OK to be fair). The vampire lord skill is sooooo clunky and I'm still trying to figure out the point of it and when would you actually use it? It's trash in both PvE and PvP and I think it's just so gimmicky.

What they should have done is made it more like the vampire lord from the other Elder Scrolls games.

Epic Fail IMO

Weesacs · July 5

Just to add ... mist form is really buggy in PvP as well. It sometimes doesn't work in combat and I need to press it twice for it to work.

SlimeBro1 · July 5

Weesacs wrote: »

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Selminus wrote: »

When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.

It is better with only 1 melee-magicka damage skill and no gapcloser or reliable CC? And most skills not being viable in vet-dungeon PvE at all? (except blood for blood)

Right now the current iteration feels off to me, more so than the last one. Mainly because it looks like they just half-baked what should of been a vampire lord.

I agree 100% with this. I use mist form in PvP with the other active skills being useless (the passives are OK to be fair). The vampire lord skill is sooooo clunky and I'm still trying to figure out the point of it and when would you actually use it? It's trash in both PvE and PvP and I think it's just so gimmicky.

What they should have done is made it more like the vampire lord from the other Elder Scrolls games.

Epic Fail IMO

I can agree! The worst part here is they didn't need to do blood scions. They didn't exist before ESO. They could of gotten away with giving us vampire lords.

An almost equally worst part is the fact that vampire lords in game have a wide arrange of really awesome abilities and look ultra cool! Yesterday I saw a vampire lord in a Harrowstorm teleport as a cloud of bats into someone and stay inside of them as a CC effect while bats were damaging them and players around the infected person. It looked so epic!

I've also seen them throw blood spears at people too.

Nova_J · July 5

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

[snip], most of you only took Vampirism for a a single passive and now think the Skillline is bad just because it does not cater to your build, well guess what it is a large improvement on my build, I use Stealth all the time so Unnatural Movement is handy, Blood to Blood is my main DPS and with my Siphon attacks i never run out of resources and have killed plenty of players with it, with Simmering Frenzy I can get over 5k Spell Power on my Mageblade, a few times i have even managed to hit 6k Spell Power, even Hypnotize has gotten me a victory now and again.

The old Vampire system only had 2 Skills and 1 Ultimate, 1 of which was useless and still is, a passive that only activated when you were at 50% health and a rather insignificant 10% boost to Stamina and Magic regeneration, the only useful passive was Dark Stalker, the new Vampire system though, the Blood Scion Ultimate is probably one of the most powerful Ultimates in the game, 10,000 extra health, magic and stamina gives a monstrous damage boost to attacks because they scale off of max stats, Undeath is better because it is always active now instead of just at 50% health, there are more abilities to make use of.

If you do not feel like a Vampire with your Templar Vampire then maybe you should try a class that syncs well with it like IDK a Nightblade, of course your not going to feel like a Vampire when your primary means of attack is spamming light spells.

Lol even on the pts we all said that these changes were only going to be for gank/bomb builds, especially on a nightblade. But if people are actually letting you get away with using simmering and BfB then they probably just dont know what they are doing. Even 1 sec stun can mean your life when frenzy is active, everytime I see that *** move I stun and they die. Just last night I was dueling a bunch of people who were running around with a bunch of vamp skills thinking they were all that, and literally everytime they activated frenzy they either died, or almost died. Now you using hypno as your cc? That's fine, but there are much more reliable and better skills that have more utility. And now for you using BfB.......I could see you using that on a bomb build, but using this in a 1v1 enough times to burst someone down is dangerous, siphoning strikes doesnt really cover the health cost of using this in rapid succession. On a class with a good burst heal maybe, but on a mag Nb? Nah, that's not wise. And blood scion is a joke in pvp, if you have no gap closer people can just reset the fight by running or (and this happens often) you can get bursted down while transforming.
As for PvE vampire are going to kill diversity even more than before lol. BfB will become almost mandatory because it eliminates sustain issues almost completely. And since it completely overshadows the other morph (there's already alot of ways to get high crit), it probably going to be nerfed soon. The rest of the skill line is.....ok for pve. Nothing amazing at all, mist form is a great purge, but breathing through the wrong nostril takes you out of it , frenzy is too high maintenance to use outside of vet dungeons and overland. The whole thing just needs serious work. Outside of my magblade (which is my fun toon) this skill line doesnt really synergize with much. Would look cool on a necro though I guess. And this was just a nerf for anything outside of a dps, mist form on a tank is just......no.

Fur_like_snow · July 5

It’s like they designed 1/3rd of a new class with nothing else to tie it together. But I’m glad the PvP NBs have something fun to use.

Jeremy · July 6

Selminus wrote: »

When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.

I like the new Vampire as well. My main character is a lot more fun and interesting to play as a result of it.

Be prepared for a lot of disagreement though, because a lot of people don't like it for some reason. I'm not sure why, because it was nothing but an improvement over the old Vampire.