So with Greymoor old players now missing 4 skillpoints, bad tutorial system

Env_t

also if you consider wrong choice with mages guild story, you will lost 2 more skillpoints
why this system was designed at first place?

P.s. also most people don't need the skill point, they just want it for completionism.

Asardes

You're only missing one if you made a character before Morrowind, as I did for 9 of my own, but I don't care since the active ones have 370+ already. Once you complete one of the DLC tutorials, the others won't be available anymore, with the exception of the Morrowind Firemoth quest that is just a normal side quest with no skill points.

Xebov

If you would have taken 5mins to read about it instead of going directly int complain mode you would know that it is exactly 1 Skillpoint. Its awarded at the end of the Chapters tutorial which you can play exactly one of. There are currently 455 Skillpoints. If you have a vanilla char and didnt take the book you have max 452 which is alot.

LukosCreyden

this is a non-issue. I don't understand why you feel the need to complain about this. There is absolutely no way you need those skill points. Especially when you consider more get added with every Chapter and Q4 DLC.

Hurbster

I currently have about 40 unused skill points at the moment. I'm glad of the antiquities system just for something to spend them on. I think I'll live.

VaranisArano

Um, first off, making the right choice in the Mages Guild hasn't hampered me in the slightest.

Second, I was unaware that we could do more than one tutorial on the same character. Oh, wait. Looks like at most I'm only out one skill point from doing the old Coldharbor tutorial.

Finally, my main character is a PVE tank, PVP Healer, and my master crafter with a lot of skill lines filled in. Maybe some players are feeling the pinch of not enough skill points? But I'm not.

Hotdog_23

It’s not about needing the skill point itself. The problem is older characters do not have the ability to collect them for completion sake.

Lord-Otto

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, first off, making the right choice in the Mages Guild hasn't hampered me in the slightest.

Second, I was unaware that we could do more than one tutorial on the same character. Oh, wait. Looks like at most I'm only out one skill point from doing the old Coldharbor tutorial.

Finally, my main character is a PVE tank, PVP Healer, and my master crafter with a lot of skill lines filled in. Maybe some players are feeling the pinch of not enough skill points? But I'm not.

You think Valaste wouldn't have been happy with uncle Sheo? (o.0) Just think of the pretty butterflies and cheese! Not together, butterflies hate cheese, actually.

essi2

There is no significant 'completion' connected to the missing tutorial skill points.

This is, has always been and will remain a non-issue.

Narvuntien

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

bearbelly

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

"All these skill points" is just one skill point.
It isn't possible to do all four tutorials on the same character, so three of those skill points don't even exist for that character.

Jacozilla

just on separate sub topic of bad tutorial system - it needs a very obvious, in game disclaimer that if you skip tutorial morrowind+, you will not get the extra skill point.

Note that I’m not making some argument that 1 point will make huge difference and agree more than plenty to earn overall. Just saying it is shoddy design and bizarre to not even mention the major reward for doing the tutorial (extra point) vs skip.

It is not made clear, in fact no mention at all, on skip tutorial confirmation dialog after creating a post morrowind character that you don’t get the extra point unless tutorial is actually played through.

laksikus

Jacozilla wrote: »

just on separate sub topic of bad tutorial system - it needs a very obvious, in game disclaimer that if you skip tutorial morrowind+, you will not get the extra skill point.

Note that I’m not making some argument that 1 point will make huge difference and agree more than plenty to earn overall. Just saying it is shoddy design and bizarre to not even mention the major reward for doing the tutorial (extra point) vs skip.

It is not made clear, in fact no mention at all, on skip tutorial confirmation dialog after creating a post morrowind character that you don’t get the extra point unless tutorial is actually played through.

Im pretty sure you get the skillpoint if you skip tutorial

The extra point comes from normal tutorial which you have to do ofc

CMDR_Un1k0rn

laksikus wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

just on separate sub topic of bad tutorial system - it needs a very obvious, in game disclaimer that if you skip tutorial morrowind+, you will not get the extra skill point.

Note that I’m not making some argument that 1 point will make huge difference and agree more than plenty to earn overall. Just saying it is shoddy design and bizarre to not even mention the major reward for doing the tutorial (extra point) vs skip.

It is not made clear, in fact no mention at all, on skip tutorial confirmation dialog after creating a post morrowind character that you don’t get the extra point unless tutorial is actually played through.

Im pretty sure you get the skillpoint if you skip tutorial

The extra point comes from normal tutorial which you have to do ofc

I tested it. You do get the extra skill point still.

peacenote

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

ZeroXFF

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

These people who say it's not an issue are building one trick pony chars. Without even going for PvP, making a crafter that is tank, stam DD and WW, while also getting all of those skills and small QoL passives from various guilds, will use up enough skill points that you'll start struggling with 400+ total.

But even that is besides the point. The only point that needs to be made is that it's a bug that needs to be fixed.

When purple jewelry didn't drop in vMA, you could still get gold jewelry from leaderboard rewards. If you really wanted to have that jewelry, you could theoretically get away without the vMA drops, but it was not the way it was supposed to be, so they fixed it. The same is true of the situation with the missing skill point. It may not be impossible to play the game without the additional skill point, but it sure as hell is a bug.

And the people arguing against fixing it are the reason the game will remain buggy. Quit defending bugs when they don't affect you, and maybe you'll get more support for bug fixes that YOU care about.

Sephyr

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

You'd cringe to find out I started this chapter with a whopping 79 skillpoints and I've 34 left. I don't have use for Sword and Board and I just use things that are relevant to my playstyle so I can save for future lines, like I did with this one.

heaven13

ZeroXFF wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

These people who say it's not an issue are building one trick pony chars. Without even going for PvP, making a crafter that is tank, stam DD and WW, while also getting all of those skills and small QoL passives from various guilds, will use up enough skill points that you'll start struggling with 400+ total.

But even that is besides the point. The only point that needs to be made is that it's a bug that needs to be fixed.

When purple jewelry didn't drop in vMA, you could still get gold jewelry from leaderboard rewards. If you really wanted to have that jewelry, you could theoretically get away without the vMA drops, but it was not the way it was supposed to be, so they fixed it. The same is true of the situation with the missing skill point. It may not be impossible to play the game without the additional skill point, but it sure as hell is a bug.

And the people arguing against fixing it are the reason the game will remain buggy. Quit defending bugs when they don't affect you, and maybe you'll get more support for bug fixes that YOU care about.

It's not a bug. It's the way it was designed. Might have been poorly designed, but it was intentional and people have been bringing it to ZoS's attention since Morrowind PTS, and every chapter release since. (And yes, this does "affect" me since my main and at least 3 other characters were created prior to chapters and thus will always be missing that one skill point.)

ZeroXFF

heaven13 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

These people who say it's not an issue are building one trick pony chars. Without even going for PvP, making a crafter that is tank, stam DD and WW, while also getting all of those skills and small QoL passives from various guilds, will use up enough skill points that you'll start struggling with 400+ total.

But even that is besides the point. The only point that needs to be made is that it's a bug that needs to be fixed.

When purple jewelry didn't drop in vMA, you could still get gold jewelry from leaderboard rewards. If you really wanted to have that jewelry, you could theoretically get away without the vMA drops, but it was not the way it was supposed to be, so they fixed it. The same is true of the situation with the missing skill point. It may not be impossible to play the game without the additional skill point, but it sure as hell is a bug.

And the people arguing against fixing it are the reason the game will remain buggy. Quit defending bugs when they don't affect you, and maybe you'll get more support for bug fixes that YOU care about.

It's not a bug. It's the way it was designed. Might have been poorly designed, but it was intentional and people have been bringing it to ZoS's attention since Morrowind PTS, and every chapter release since. (And yes, this does "affect" me since my main and at least 3 other characters were created prior to chapters and thus will always be missing that one skill point.)

I can guarantee, nobody designed it for the sake of screwing over veteran players, at least not back in 2017. The best you can argue is that it was an oversight - an oversight that is without doubt making the game worse. What do you call that other than a bug?

FrancisCrawford

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

I have VERY few characters with excess skill points. Perhaps as few as one, actually.

But then, all 18 of my characters have maxed out every craft, Provisioning in some cases excepted. So a lot of the potential skill point use lies in ranking up all the way in crafts. And the benefits of that are pretty dubious nowadays.

JKorr

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

It’s not about needing the skill point itself. The problem is older characters do not have the ability to collect them for completion sake.

hmm...my main, the first character I ever made, has "missed" the skill points from every chapter released. Did the original tutorial at early release. I "missed" the Valaste point too, not letting her go with Sheo. Currently, with at least three chapter/dlc not touched at all, and others only main story completed, I have 32 unused skill points; even after maxing out all the crafting lines, Psijic and being a maxed werewolf. Not sure how many I'd have if I went and collected all the skyshards I didn't bother to get. Even with the Antiquities skill line I think I'll be fine.

JKorr

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

Pve player, my main character has maxed out crafting including jewelry, stamina dk/sword&board, dual wield back bar. I don't pvp at all. I have no reason to spend skill points in weapons or abilities I don't use. If I think a skill or ability works for my game, I'll take it. Otherwise, no point to doing it. I haven't maxed out antiquities yet, but when I looked last night, I have 32 unused points. Still have shards I haven't bothered to collect and skill points for bosses I didn't do yet.

I'd be a little more annoyed that *all* the tutorials now seem to force you to use a twohanded weapon when you start. Even if you never intend to actually play with it. Why should I open that skill line when I'll never use it again past the tutorial? Yes, now the level up rewards give you a respec scroll, but why should i have to use it because of the way the game makes you start your character?

KMarble

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

Because it isn't necessary.

peacenote wrote: »

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

One of the things I really like about this game is that just like real life we need to make choices and accept that we'll be giving up on one thing to get another.

In your case, you gave up the convenience of having extra skill points waiting to be used on some new skill(s) to be able to change your setup on the fly.

You do have a few options though:
1. create alts that are specialized - a healer, a tank, a PvP only char...
2. respec as necessary. I mean, you are already changing your CP around every time you go from say a PvE setup to a PvP one, right? So you should be used to spending gold at the shrines.

peacenote wrote: »

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

When I first started playing this game I thought I'd be able to craft my own gear and weapons as I leveled up. The thing is, even doing all of the story quests and getting all the skyshards as you go won't give you enough skill points to level up your fighting/healing/tanking skills AND crafting skills at the same time.

What you're experiencing now isn't any different. There are still skill points to be had in your case, but you have to earn them.

You chose to create a char that is a jack of all trades, it's up to you to make it work.

Blacknight841

If the tutorial skill points were automatically awarded if you skipped the tutorial, you can practically omit collecting skyshards in a whole zone. There are 16 skyshards in glenumbra, you get a total of 5 skill points... so getting the 4 skill points is the equivalent of collecting 12 of those skyshards. It does make a difference for newly created characters

Hurbster

Wait, hang on. People want to do all 4 tutorials on the same character ?

ZeroXFF

JKorr wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.

Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?

As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.

I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.

I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.

Pve player, my main character has maxed out crafting including jewelry, stamina dk/sword&board, dual wield back bar. I don't pvp at all. I have no reason to spend skill points in weapons or abilities I don't use. If I think a skill or ability works for my game, I'll take it. Otherwise, no point to doing it. I haven't maxed out antiquities yet, but when I looked last night, I have 32 unused points. Still have shards I haven't bothered to collect and skill points for bosses I didn't do yet.

I'd be a little more annoyed that *all* the tutorials now seem to force you to use a twohanded weapon when you start. Even if you never intend to actually play with it. Why should I open that skill line when I'll never use it again past the tutorial? Yes, now the level up rewards give you a respec scroll, but why should i have to use it because of the way the game makes you start your character?

So you're missing 2 weapon skill lines to be able to play properly - destro staff for tanking back bar and bow for dps back bar. See if you still have enough points for those... And the new antiquities system. And don't say you "don't need them", because you'd just be proving my previous point about only one trick ponies not needing all skill points that one can get.

bearbelly

ZeroXFF wrote: »

it was an oversight - an oversight that is without doubt making the game worse.

ONE skill point is making the game worse.........................................................................................................

What other cool insights about the game do you have?

idk

Asardes wrote: »

You're only missing one if you made a character before Morrowind, as I did for 9 of my own, but I don't care since the active ones have 370+ already. Once you complete one of the DLC tutorials, the others won't be available anymore, with the exception of the Morrowind Firemoth quest that is just a normal side quest with no skill points.

This is correct. Characters started before the fist chapter would only be missing one, not four.

and yes, there are over 400 skill points in the game now and I doubt many have all of them so it seems one skill point is not a big deal.

opaj

I reckon this is on ZOS's fix list, somewhere near the bottom. I've got a task or two like that--things that should be done, but it keeps getting kicked down the road as more important things come up.

The fix for this issue is a little ambiguous, so it will take a little brainpower to decide on the right approach. Yes, I know some of you have ideas on how to fix it, but there are multiple okay ideas and the dev at ZOS who winds up addressing this shouldn't just pick one out of a hat!

I wager we'll see even less important bugs get fixed before this, just because some of those bugs will be trivial no-brainers to fix. Meanwhile, this one has stuck around for years because it's got that unfortunate combination of being low-impact and requiring a small bit of consideration.

Anyway, it is just one (one, not four, as OP suggests) skill point that us pre-Morrowind players are missing. Those of us who are starved for skill points probably wouldn't be in much better shape if we could get that single skill point, so... sit tight and cross your fingers that it's fixed next patch?

JKorr wrote: »

I'd be a little more annoyed that *all* the tutorials now seem to force you to use a twohanded weapon when you start. Even if you never intend to actually play with it. Why should I open that skill line when I'll never use it again past the tutorial? Yes, now the level up rewards give you a respec scroll, but why should i have to use it because of the way the game makes you start your character?

I'll punch my way through the tutorial before I'll force my character to pick up that first greatsword that's always lying around.

ZeroXFF

bearbelly wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

it was an oversight - an oversight that is without doubt making the game worse.

ONE skill point is making the game worse.........................................................................................................

What other cool insights about the game do you have?

If missing 1 skill point isn't making the game worse for those affected, I'm sure that if we removed 200 from you and denied you the ability to get them, while everyone else would be unaffected, it wouldn't be a problem either, because lack of skill points is not making the game worse, right?

It is just another bug in the bucket of bugs that make the game less enjoyable, but together they add up.

I for one couldn't give a single flying **** about cyro performance because I never play there, does it mean it's not a problem and therefore should not be addressed?

[Snip]

[Removed for bait]

bearbelly

ZeroXFF wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

it was an oversight - an oversight that is without doubt making the game worse.

ONE skill point is making the game worse.........................................................................................................

What other cool insights about the game do you have?

If missing 1 skill point isn't making the game worse for those affected, I'm sure that if we removed 200 from you and denied you the ability to get them, while everyone else would be unaffected, it wouldn't be a problem either, because lack of skill points is not making the game worse, right?

Your response is to equate one skill point to two hundred skill points?
How does that even make sense?

[Snip]

[Edited for removed content]