Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
So with Greymoor old players now missing 4 skillpoints, bad tutorial system
-
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If missing 1 skill point isn't making the game worse for those affected, I'm sure that if we removed 200 from you and denied you the ability to get them, while everyone else would be unaffected, it wouldn't be a problem either, because lack of skill points is not making the game worse, right?
Your response is to equate one skill point to two hundred skill points?
How does that even make sense?
[Snip]
[Edited for removed content]
you said there was 0 loss with 1 skill point
No.
I did not say that.
You must have a really short memory.
So does or doesn't the lack of a skill point make the game worse? If you say it doesn't, then my 200 skill points argument is valid, and if it does, then I expect an apology.
You should make balloon animals for a living, because you have a special knack for twisting things.
Lacking one skill point does not in any way come anywhere close to equaling the impact of lacking 200.
Why would you even try to use that as a debate point?
I also never said that the missing point shouldn't be fixed, that was just another thing you decided to throw in there as something I said.
However, ONE missing skill point does NOT break the game. It might be a minor annoyance, but it does not impede your ability to play the game. At ALL.
Missing 200 definitely would.
But you know that.
And don't hold your breath waiting for an apology.
That's not what you said though. There was no argument about magnitude in your statement, you merely ridiculed my statement about the existence of a difference.
My entire argument is about magnitude.
It is a single point. One.
If we only had ten points in the entire game, you would have an argument. But we have over 400.
Lacking one point out of 400+ points does not make the game worse.
What is it, EXACTLY, that you are prevented from doing without that one point?
I explained it in the previous comments. I also explained that it doesn't matter, because it's a bug and as such has to be fixed. And in its current unfixed state it's just another thing broken about the game, which you for some reason don't want to be fixed. By that logic I guess let's have cyro have permanent 20s lag since it doesn't affect 90% of the population anyways.
I even saw fixes in patch notes where when returning one of the writ quests the wrong chest opening animation was playing. Don't tell me that it was a more important and game-breaking thing than the inaccessibility of a skill point.
TL;DR: It's a bug, it has to be fixed, and the defense of incompetence coming from you and certain other people in this thread is very annoying.
Once again, it is not a bug. A poorly designed mechanic, yes. But a bug, no. New characters always get a skillpoint from the tutorial. Old characters can't access new tutorials (which is a damn shame, not for the skill point but for the story which is an entirely different conversation) but all characters need to be able to access Soulshriven in Coldharbour which is the start of the main base game quest. You can see in this ESO live that it is absolutely intentional. "If you've done the Wailing Prison tutorial, you already got your skill point for doing that so, you know, you don't get another one."
If anything is a bug, it's that new characters get the skill point in the Coldharbour tutorial. I believe it was originally intended that if you had received a skill point from Morrowind tutorial, you weren't supposed to get the skill point from the prophet; they were supposed to be mutually exclusive (though I can't find the ESO live where that was stated since it's not in the one previously linked). So really, post-Morrowind characters should have one less skill point to put them on the same field as pre-Morrowind characters.
You say it's not a bug and then you turn around and say that it is. Good job.
Either way it needs to be fixed.0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
If missing 1 skill point isn't making the game worse for those affected, I'm sure that if we removed 200 from you and denied you the ability to get them, while everyone else would be unaffected, it wouldn't be a problem either, because lack of skill points is not making the game worse, right?
Your response is to equate one skill point to two hundred skill points?
How does that even make sense?
[Snip]
[Edited for removed content]
you said there was 0 loss with 1 skill point
No.
I did not say that.
You must have a really short memory.
So does or doesn't the lack of a skill point make the game worse? If you say it doesn't, then my 200 skill points argument is valid, and if it does, then I expect an apology.
You should make balloon animals for a living, because you have a special knack for twisting things.
Lacking one skill point does not in any way come anywhere close to equaling the impact of lacking 200.
Why would you even try to use that as a debate point?
I also never said that the missing point shouldn't be fixed, that was just another thing you decided to throw in there as something I said.
However, ONE missing skill point does NOT break the game. It might be a minor annoyance, but it does not impede your ability to play the game. At ALL.
Missing 200 definitely would.
But you know that.
And don't hold your breath waiting for an apology.
That's not what you said though. There was no argument about magnitude in your statement, you merely ridiculed my statement about the existence of a difference.
My entire argument is about magnitude.
It is a single point. One.
If we only had ten points in the entire game, you would have an argument. But we have over 400.
Lacking one point out of 400+ points does not make the game worse.
What is it, EXACTLY, that you are prevented from doing without that one point?
I explained it in the previous comments. I also explained that it doesn't matter, because it's a bug and as such has to be fixed. And in its current unfixed state it's just another thing broken about the game, which you for some reason don't want to be fixed. By that logic I guess let's have cyro have permanent 20s lag since it doesn't affect 90% of the population anyways.
I even saw fixes in patch notes where when returning one of the writ quests the wrong chest opening animation was playing. Don't tell me that it was a more important and game-breaking thing than the inaccessibility of a skill point.
TL;DR: It's a bug, it has to be fixed, and the defense of incompetence coming from you and certain other people in this thread is very annoying.
Once again, it is not a bug. A poorly designed mechanic, yes. But a bug, no. New characters always get a skillpoint from the tutorial. Old characters can't access new tutorials (which is a damn shame, not for the skill point but for the story which is an entirely different conversation) but all characters need to be able to access Soulshriven in Coldharbour which is the start of the main base game quest. You can see in this ESO live that it is absolutely intentional. "If you've done the Wailing Prison tutorial, you already got your skill point for doing that so, you know, you don't get another one."
If anything is a bug, it's that new characters get the skill point in the Coldharbour tutorial. I believe it was originally intended that if you had received a skill point from Morrowind tutorial, you weren't supposed to get the skill point from the prophet; they were supposed to be mutually exclusive (though I can't find the ESO live where that was stated since it's not in the one previously linked). So really, post-Morrowind characters should have one less skill point to put them on the same field as pre-Morrowind characters.
You say it's not a bug and then you turn around and say that it is. Good job.
Either way it needs to be fixed.
You've been going on and on about the lack of this one skill point being a bug. I explained in detail, with sources, how what you're complaining about is not a bug. Not receiving a skill point from chapter tutorials is intentional. There may be a bug, but it's not the one you're so worked up over. There's a difference. You should be asking that the Wailing Prison not award a skill point and any existing characters that received a skill point for both it and their respective chapter tutorial have one point removed. Distinction and facts are important.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS1 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If missing 1 skill point isn't making the game worse for those affected, I'm sure that if we removed 200 from you and denied you the ability to get them, while everyone else would be unaffected, it wouldn't be a problem either, because lack of skill points is not making the game worse, right?
Your response is to equate one skill point to two hundred skill points?
How does that even make sense?
[Snip]
[Edited for removed content]
you said there was 0 loss with 1 skill point
No.
I did not say that.
You must have a really short memory.
So does or doesn't the lack of a skill point make the game worse? If you say it doesn't, then my 200 skill points argument is valid, and if it does, then I expect an apology.
You should make balloon animals for a living, because you have a special knack for twisting things.
Lacking one skill point does not in any way come anywhere close to equaling the impact of lacking 200.
Why would you even try to use that as a debate point?
I also never said that the missing point shouldn't be fixed, that was just another thing you decided to throw in there as something I said.
However, ONE missing skill point does NOT break the game. It might be a minor annoyance, but it does not impede your ability to play the game. At ALL.
Missing 200 definitely would.
But you know that.
And don't hold your breath waiting for an apology.
That's not what you said though. There was no argument about magnitude in your statement, you merely ridiculed my statement about the existence of a difference.
My entire argument is about magnitude.
It is a single point. One.
If we only had ten points in the entire game, you would have an argument. But we have over 400.
Lacking one point out of 400+ points does not make the game worse.
What is it, EXACTLY, that you are prevented from doing without that one point?
I explained it in the previous comments. I also explained that it doesn't matter, because it's a bug and as such has to be fixed. And in its current unfixed state it's just another thing broken about the game, which you for some reason don't want to be fixed. By that logic I guess let's have cyro have permanent 20s lag since it doesn't affect 90% of the population anyways.
I even saw fixes in patch notes where when returning one of the writ quests the wrong chest opening animation was playing. Don't tell me that it was a more important and game-breaking thing than the inaccessibility of a skill point.
TL;DR: It's a bug, it has to be fixed, and the defense of incompetence coming from you and certain other people in this thread is very annoying.
Once again, it is not a bug. A poorly designed mechanic, yes. But a bug, no. New characters always get a skillpoint from the tutorial. Old characters can't access new tutorials (which is a damn shame, not for the skill point but for the story which is an entirely different conversation) but all characters need to be able to access Soulshriven in Coldharbour which is the start of the main base game quest. You can see in this ESO live that it is absolutely intentional. "If you've done the Wailing Prison tutorial, you already got your skill point for doing that so, you know, you don't get another one."
If anything is a bug, it's that new characters get the skill point in the Coldharbour tutorial. I believe it was originally intended that if you had received a skill point from Morrowind tutorial, you weren't supposed to get the skill point from the prophet; they were supposed to be mutually exclusive (though I can't find the ESO live where that was stated since it's not in the one previously linked). So really, post-Morrowind characters should have one less skill point to put them on the same field as pre-Morrowind characters.
You say it's not a bug and then you turn around and say that it is. Good job.
Either way it needs to be fixed.
You've been going on and on about the lack of this one skill point being a bug. I explained in detail, with sources, how what you're complaining about is not a bug. Not receiving a skill point from chapter tutorials is intentional. There may be a bug, but it's not the one you're so worked up over. There's a difference. You should be asking that the Wailing Prison not award a skill point and any existing characters that received a skill point for both it and their respective chapter tutorial have one point removed. Distinction and facts are important.
So the bug isn't exactly what I said it was, but there is a bug related to it, which still should be fixed.
Tbh they should have allowed everyone to do all of the tutorials to begin with, because they are part of the story of the chapter. Then none of these discussions would be necessary to begin with, and we'd all have 3-4 extra skill points. Win-win.0 -
Ghrimn✭✭✭Has this issue still not been resolved? Why can't ZOS simply let all and any character complete all Tutorials? Locking old characters from acquiring skill points, even if it's just one makes no sense, especially when so many people have spent time into one character, and do not wish to make a new one.
Also tutorials add to the story, why do they not allow any character old or new to complete them? Just add the choice for players to make the quest, it makes no sense that people have to create a new character to experience the tutorials from each chapter, and are only allowed to complete one. Let us decide if we want to play them or not.
Also in a ESO Live from Morrowind they stated that you won't get another skill point from the tutorials however, this is not the case, since people DO GET the extra point if they make a character after purchasing any of the chapter. This should be fixed, and also it's quite astonishing that after so many posts about this, ZOS has yet to give a single official statement.
ALL characters should be able to play through ALL tutorials, even if it's just for the story. And most importantly ALL characters should be given the opportunity to acquire ALL skill points, even if it's just one.0 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
also if you consider wrong choice with mages guild story, you will lost 2 more skillpoints
why this system was designed at first place?
Your char can only pick up one of those mentioned, depending on where your char has/had a tutorial...
Regarding mages guild: losing 2 skill points makes no difference at all when the total was 444 skills points available with patch 5.3.9
"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Narvuntien wrote: »What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.
Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?
As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.
I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.
I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.
Pve player, my main character has maxed out crafting including jewelry, stamina dk/sword&board, dual wield back bar. I don't pvp at all. I have no reason to spend skill points in weapons or abilities I don't use. If I think a skill or ability works for my game, I'll take it. Otherwise, no point to doing it. I haven't maxed out antiquities yet, but when I looked last night, I have 32 unused points. Still have shards I haven't bothered to collect and skill points for bosses I didn't do yet.
I'd be a little more annoyed that *all* the tutorials now seem to force you to use a twohanded weapon when you start. Even if you never intend to actually play with it. Why should I open that skill line when I'll never use it again past the tutorial? Yes, now the level up rewards give you a respec scroll, but why should i have to use it because of the way the game makes you start your character?
So you're missing 2 weapon skill lines to be able to play properly - destro staff for tanking back bar and bow for dps back bar. See if you still have enough points for those... And the new antiquities system. And don't say you "don't need them", because you'd just be proving my previous point about only one trick ponies not needing all skill points that one can get.
"Play properly"
Thanks for enlightening me on the "proper" way to play a game, even though the things you mentioned are not necessary.1 -
Ermiq✭✭✭✭✭
✭if you consider wrong choice with mages guild story, you will lost 2 more skillpoints
why this system was designed at first place?
The choice in the Mages Guild questline is probably the greatest quest design approach in MMOs ever.
Things like that make the game an actual RPG, instead of just being a MMO.
I wish there were more choices like this one.One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
Me is russian little bad in english :b4 -
Keledus✭✭✭450 skillpoints give or take
about 100 needed to max the necessary crafting
100 for a build give or take
leaves 250 for other skill lines
like what 30 go into antiquites, about the same in thieves/legerdmain. leaves you 190 skillpoints give or take
there are so many, this 1 skillpoint you missed out on doesn't matter.
Wonder if skipping the tutorial causes you to miss out on 1 aswell I skipped tutorial on several characters eitherway its just 1.
Wait for a new dlc/chapter and you gain another 10-20.PC - EU1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »What are you doing with all these skill points? I have 15 just lying around not doing anything.
Why isn't everyone using all of their skill points?
As a PvE-centric healer who enjoys all content, I have maxed out all my crafting, have skills in healing and destro staves, all armor, sword and board, and alliance skill lines because I swap between healing, hybrid, and PvP builds.
I do not have enough skill points for the antiquities lines because I haven't unlocked all of the PvP leveling skill points, I have some skyshards stuck behind the starter gates in Cyro for other factions, and I haven't had time yet to complete Southern Elswery or the new zone. And I even went back and refunded my research skill points once I was maxed out. In fact, the only reason I had any to spare when I started scrying was because I had to cure vampirism.
I actually was looking yesterday because I am out of skill points and I have very few left that I can scoop up easily.
Pve player, my main character has maxed out crafting including jewelry, stamina dk/sword&board, dual wield back bar. I don't pvp at all. I have no reason to spend skill points in weapons or abilities I don't use. If I think a skill or ability works for my game, I'll take it. Otherwise, no point to doing it. I haven't maxed out antiquities yet, but when I looked last night, I have 32 unused points. Still have shards I haven't bothered to collect and skill points for bosses I didn't do yet.
I'd be a little more annoyed that *all* the tutorials now seem to force you to use a twohanded weapon when you start. Even if you never intend to actually play with it. Why should I open that skill line when I'll never use it again past the tutorial? Yes, now the level up rewards give you a respec scroll, but why should i have to use it because of the way the game makes you start your character?
So you're missing 2 weapon skill lines to be able to play properly - destro staff for tanking back bar and bow for dps back bar. See if you still have enough points for those... And the new antiquities system. And don't say you "don't need them", because you'd just be proving my previous point about only one trick ponies not needing all skill points that one can get.
Oh dear. Whatever shall I do? I haven't been playing the game properly since beta.....Divines, I must truly suck. I mean, I don't use a bow at all because I don't like to use a bow...so I guess that means I'm not the same cookie cutter 2 trick ponies of the metachasing bis min/maxing munchkin characters. Oh the horror...someone who has no idea how I play, or which content I enjoy playing is making a divine judgement that *obviously* I'm playing the game wrong. Can I solo the public dungeons? Yes. Can I do pledges with guildies? Yes. Can I solo most things in pve? Yes. Do I give a flying dragon fart about pvp and the rabidly competitive people who know how everyone should be playing the game? No, no I don't.
Now that's out of my system.... You do realize that "playing properly" is actually personal preference, right? Unless you're in a super uber leet everyone has to do elebenty kabillion dps and utterly destroy enemies by twitching an eyebrow in their general direction guild, there really isn't a "proper" way to play the game. Are you enjoying playing the game? Are you enjoying playing the content/stories? If yes, then how you're playing is "proper" for you. If you're stressing out because you can't get that last .00001% of dps, then you might possibly be playing the wrong game; you might be looking for one that has specific requirements that force people to all play the same way all the time, or fall behind and hear remarks about their mother being a hamster and their father smelling like elderberries.
Have 36 skill points now, but that will change because I'm leveling scrying/antiquities....and I'm still having fun playing improperly.
EDIT: Forgot; I do have Destro staff maxed on this character. Hardly ever use it, but I have it. And still have extra skill points......Edited by JKorr on July 8, 2020 4:23PM2