Dear housing community how do you feel about Nord boat furnishing requiring vet trial achieve ?

MasterSpatula

I knew you needed to do Kyne's Aegis for the boat, but I'd completely missed that you needed to do Vet for it.

Probably because it would never in a million years have occurred to me that you'd need to do a vet trial for a boat.

rrimöykk

SilverBride wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Why should any housing items be locked behind achievements?

What I and the OP said is why are housing items locked behind vet trials.

Indeed why? Why houses cost gold? Why furniture plans aren't available for free or to all? Why this and why that? Again the same thing. ESO is a mmorpg, not housing simulator. This game is not based around housing, housing is one small part of it.

Why any housing item is locked behind anything? Get rid off of all requirements, give everyone all furniture plans so they can make them and unlock all houses so they can unleash their imagination.

Some items should be EARNED, not handed to you.

rrimöykk

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I knew you needed to do Kyne's Aegis for the boat, but I'd completely missed that you needed to do Vet for it.

Probably because it would never in a million years have occurred to me that you'd need to do a vet trial for a boat.

And I never thought you would need millions of gold to buy houses or get an ACHIEVEMENT (like from vKA) in fishing to get a boat.

rrimöykk

Kittytravel wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Some rewards should be rewarded from other aspects of the game so people can experience that side of the game too.

No. People should feel the need to experience only those parts of the game that they like. "If you like to eat a chocolate and you want to taste some special chocolate, then you must also taste bat guano, because reasons" (or because the one who is saying this is just a sadist) is beyond stupid.

So in that logic I want to test or have all the houses so they should be free too, right?

That's a strawman that has nothing to do with what he said?... "Rewards should be rewarded based on the parts of the game they pertain to" does not lead into "I should be able to obtain all houses for free." Feel free to explain the link between those two conclusions but you're wrong since one is a matter of logically adding in achievement furniture obtained based on related things (The curse doll in W. Skyrim comes from its related quest, the stinky mammoth cheese comes from the cheese connoisseur, etc). The other is an opinion on whether or not ZOS should charge for housing in general and require some crown-only homes. A better logical argument is to say.

"If rewards are linked only to the parts of the game they pertain to then gold-purchased houses should be gated behind achievements like completing the zone the house is in."

Which of course many large and manor houses already have those requirements so that's an irrelevant point. If the furnishing was a statue of Lord Falgravn and it required vet completion then it'd make a good bit of sense. Those are related content and it can be argued for. Veteran Kyne's Aegis is not the only location of the Nord Fishing Boat so it's senseless that it requires veteran completion for it. Logically if I have millions of gold there are plenty of NPCs in W. Skyrim who would happily sell their boat to me if they could.

Anyone can see that this scenario is a good bit different from the N Elsweyr statues which directly pertained to the trial they were awarded from.

If rewards should be based like you say, buying Proudspire should give you all Solitude furnishing, right? It doesn't. You need to either buy or farm them. None of the furnishing plans in this game are connected directly to housing, you get them from different aspects of the game.

Doll, cheese and this particular boat are all achieved by doing something in this game. They are the same. Some are easier to achieve, others require effort. If you absolutely want the boat, you can either earn it yourself or get carried which costs around the same amount as purple furniture plans.

Houses have zero requirements if you have crowns. You can buy any house whether you have done the achievement required for it or not.

Again, for the hundredth time some items are achievement based as they should be. You earn them, cherish them and be proud of them as not every other person necessarily have them.

I started this game less than 6 months ago. If I can so it, so can you. You just need to leave your precious house and actually do something else too that is a core aspect of ESO, a mmorpg.

I do hope ZOS adds more special furniture behind certain achievements. I do feel extremely proud of my items I have earned.

And hey, to all you bashing me. I really want the Elder Scroll in my house but I don't do pvp so I will never get it. I want it but won't get it. Shall I write a forum post about it too how I should be able to get it because I'm into housing?

SilverBride

rrimöykk wrote: »

ESO is a mmorpg, not housing simulator. This game is not based around housing, housing is one small part of it.

The game is not based around vet trials either. That is just one small part of it.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Why any housing item is locked behind anything?

Most of them aren't. Most of them are craftable, or purchasable with event tickets, or from home goods vendors and achievement vendors, and antiquities which anyone can do.

AefionBloodclaw

I think it's rediculous and short-sighted that such an amazing furnishing is locked for only those you do the trials. If they are doing that then they should at least release another version of the boat that's available to those who can't do trials. But of course they never listen to the players so I guess we'll just have to accept that the housing community is ignored again.

MrGhosty

Thoragaal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If there were more ships available, this wouldn't be an issue.

I don't have the slightest problem with ZOS putting furnishings as rewards for different content like PVE group content or PVP. I think ZOS views housing as integrally connected with the rest of the game, not something where you can say "I just do housing" and also expect to get every furnishing. As with other rewards in game, if you don't do all the content, you'll miss out on the rewards.

But where its a problem is that ZOS only produces a limited amount of items the housing community wants. There's only 2 ships, and one is for a vet trial achievement. Create more ships and make them available from a variety of in game content, and suddenly it's less of a problem.

I don't know. I'm not sure I agree.
Having completed the trial and getting the boat is a form of an achievement. Being able to show off the efforts with, in this case, a boat ensures some exclusivity.
Having more boats would make it less exclusive and therefor also less appealing of an achievement.
Titles/Different colors/Motifs/Skins/Mounts - they've all greatly lossed in sentimental value because there's an abundance of them with no major destinction between them, with only a few rare exceptions.

There's a number of thrones available for housing, but people don't complain that it devalues their throne for getting the Emperor achievement.

And why do you think that is?
Because I know that a lot of people just don't care about titles/motifs/colors/mounts/skins etc anymore because there is a complete abundance of it already. I know most people that I used to play with don't play anymore, and this issue was one of the reasons they didn't care about it anymore (no carrot on the stick). And before you ask, no I don't have any specific numbers for it. It's been discussed several times in all sorts of games for decades already.
These things used to make people stand out from the crowd. It made people feel unique. People could show off their accomplishments with them. Even the alliance pvp rank doesn't really matter anymore.

Maybe it's because there's no objective goal, not the same competitive aspect, to housing that's motivating people. PvE and PvP on the other hand can be very competative and people like to show off their accomplishments and wear it like a badge of honor. I don't know, what do you think is the reason for this difference?

People having access to similar, but different stuff doesn't devalue achievement. If the only thing keeping people playing was that they could be 12% more sparkly than everyone else I would be worried about their priorities. I have the meridia skin and when I use it I remember the pride of accomplishing that thing and the people who were with me when we earned it. There are huge numbers of boat models available in game so I don't imagine it would be terribly difficult for ZOS to make some of the other models available for housing folks who aren't able/willing to do the harder content.

Additionally, there should be buffs and other perks associated with housing achievements and/or quests that reward them to give homes more functionality. I've put a lot of time and effort into making my homes feel "lived in" but at the end of the day all of my day to day chores/activities have to take place outside of that home. Even just making writs able to be picked up/dropped off from within the home would be a good start.

Olauron

rrimöykk wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Some rewards should be rewarded from other aspects of the game so people can experience that side of the game too.

No. People should feel the need to experience only those parts of the game that they like. "If you like to eat a chocolate and you want to taste some special chocolate, then you must also taste bat guano, because reasons" (or because the one who is saying this is just a sadist) is beyond stupid.

So in that logic I want to test or have all the houses so they should be free too, right?

This has nothing with logic at all.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Seems most of you forget this is MMMORPG, not housing game. It makes perfect sense that you EARN some items by achievement something in the game. It makes you feel proud of them, make you feel you earned then. Not all items should be available for everyone. Some items are rewarded to those who earn then. That's the nature of games.

What you are forgetting is this is not a MMO RPG and even developers don't use this genre to describe it. This is Elder Scrolls Online. Housing is a big part of Elder Scrolls for decades. Trials were not even in the ESO at launch and have nothing to do with Elder Scrolls games.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Indeed why? Why houses cost gold? Why furniture plans aren't available for free or to all?

Houses cost gold, because everything cost gold. Houses were sold for gold since Oblivion.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Some items should be EARNED, not handed to you.

Earning something in a buy to play game is wrong concept. If developers want me to earn or prove something, they should be paying me, not vice versa. I am paying for having fun, not for the ability to do some absurd tests.

rrimöykk wrote: »

And I never thought you would need millions of gold to buy houses or get an ACHIEVEMENT (like from vKA) in fishing to get a boat.

Seems like you have never played Elder Scrolls games.

rrimöykk wrote: »

I started this game less than 6 months ago. If I can so it, so can you. You just need to leave your precious house and actually do something else too that is a core aspect of ESO, a mmorpg.

You clearly understood nothing. It is not a matter of can, it is a matter of want. I can eat bat guano, but I don't want to.
And, once again, ESO is not a MMO RPG and, luckily, has more features of Elder Scrolls games than of typical MMO. Otherwise it would be empty.

colossalvoids

What you are forgetting is this is not a MMO RPG and even developers don't use this genre to describe it. This is Elder Scrolls Online. Housing is a big part of Elder Scrolls for decades. Trials were not even in the ESO at launch and have nothing to do with Elder Scrolls games.

Corporate talk about "being different" doesn't mean it's not an mmo rpg. Time to return all awards and remove mmo hashtags selling their product then?

And that's pretty hilarious to hear about housing being "big" part of the franchise when in reality actual customisable housing was introduced only in one of the small Skyrim's dlc when killing monster and ramping difficulty was there from the very start, but now you can do it with other people also as devs dreamed since first games were released.
Also about trials not being here from launch... https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25881
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/977

Earning something in a buy to play game is wrong concept. If developers want me to earn or prove something, they should be paying me, not vice versa. I am paying for having fun, not for the ability to do some absurd tests.

And yet that's how it is. You play the game intended by devs way and earning rewards for your effort. Grand Overlord, Master Angler, Godslayer all require time and effort and cover different kinds of gameplay and non of rewards should be given away freely just because.
If you'll read tos you would realise that just bought a limited access and not a game itself. If that's not what you was up to there is a customer support here for such a stuff.

Edit: forgot patch link.

Olauron

colossalvoids wrote: »

And that's pretty hilarious to hear about housing being "big" part of the franchise when in reality actual customisable housing was introduced only in one of the small Skyrim's dlc when killing monster and ramping difficulty was there from the very start, but now you can do it with other people also as devs dreamed since first games were released.

Sorry, what? Housing was in base TES 3: Morrowind. Housing was in TES 3: Bloodmoon. Housing was in TES 4: Oblivion. Housing was in base TES 5: Skyrim and was only improved in "small dlc".
Oh, and let's not forget construction set and creation kit. Those are essential part of games from TES 3: Morrowind and allow not only custom housing, but custom town building, island building or even world building.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Also about trials not being here from launch... https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25881
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/977

So what? Housing was not in ESO from launch, but it was in Elder Scrolls for a long time. Having trials in prior patch means nothing.
If you want to compare, what is more important part of the game, then compare the consequences of removing either of these parts. You can remove trials and nothing will really change. If you remove housing, you will remove the second to most income (second to crown crates) of the game.

colossalvoids wrote: »

If you'll read tos you would realise that just bought a limited access and not a game itself. If that's not what you was up to there is a customer support here for such a stuff.

Legal things doesn't really matter here. Whether I am buying a game or an access to the game, I am buying my right to have fun in game, since games are played for fun.

colossalvoids

Sorry, what? Housing was in base TES 3: Morrowind. Housing was in TES 3: Bloodmoon. Housing was in TES 4: Oblivion. Housing was in base TES 5: Skyrim and was only improved in "small dlc".
Oh, and let's not forget construction set and creation kit. Those are essential part of games from TES 3: Morrowind and allow not only custom housing, but custom town building, island building or even world building.

And you clearly was just playing housing, placing foods/books and gear in it and walking around your property, right? It's a big stretch to call it an actual housing being non customisable, even Hearthfire was just a bunch of preselected options and nothing to do with actual customisation. Anyway if you want to call it an actual housing it's your right, same is mine to say that combat encounters and difficulty levels were always main focus of this franchise, Goldbrand you placed on a house shelf wasn't just given to you freely. Still it's non related to ESO at all.

CS argument can lead us to calling availability of console commands as "essential part of tes games" so we should fix quests ourselves and just type tmg/tgm if trial seems too hard. What's next, abusing alchemy/enchanting/spellcrafting is essential? It's also out of ESO argument so it's completely non constructive.

So what? Housing was not in ESO from launch, but it was in Elder Scrolls for a long time. Having trials in prior patch means nothing.
If you want to compare, what is more important part of the game, then compare the consequences of removing either of these parts. You can remove trials and nothing will really change. If you remove housing, you will remove the second to most income (second to crown crates) of the game.

You started the "trials wasn't there from start" yourself lmao.

Your... Erm, "comparison" shows just how biased you are really, nothing more than that. It's a combat oriented game and not a housing simulator still (yet?), no matter what you think about it and how much zos makes through furnishings purchase.

Legal things doesn't really matter here. Whether I am buying a game or an access to the game, I am buying my right to have fun in game, since games are played for fun.

It matters actually lol. You bought THEIR view of fun and not your perception of it like in modable tes games. It's preselected for you. Yours fun is not equal to others fun anyway.

Olauron

colossalvoids wrote: »

And you clearly was just playing housing, placing foods/books and gear in it and walking around your property, right? It's a big stretch to call it an actual housing being non customisable, even Hearthfire was just a bunch of preselected options and nothing to do with actual customisation. Anyway if you want to call it an actual housing it's your right, same is mine to say that combat encounters and difficulty levels were always main focus of this franchise, Goldbrand you placed on a house shelf wasn't just given to you freely. Still it's non related to ESO at all.

Actually, yes, after the story is done housing in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim was the main activity and took at least the same time as story.

colossalvoids wrote: »

CS argument can lead us to calling availability of console commands as "essential part of tes games" so we should fix quests ourselves and just type tmg/tgm if trial seems too hard. What's next, abusing alchemy/enchanting/spellcrafting is essential? It's also out of ESO argument so it's completely non constructive.

Console commands are not meant to be base gameplay. Enhancing game with mods (including housing mods) is part of the gameplay both in creating those mods and using them.

colossalvoids wrote: »

You started the "trials wasn't there from start" yourself lmao.

Your... Erm, "comparison" shows just how biased you are really, nothing more than that. It's a combat oriented game and not a housing simulator still (yet?), no matter what you think about it and how much zos makes through furnishings purchase.

Wrong. I started with "trials were not from the start and were not in Elder Scrolls at all". The second part is essential and can't be thrown away.

Just look at the participation rates. In trials those are neglectable. In housing they are huge. Speak about "combat oriented" game all you want, but numbers are numbers.

colossalvoids wrote: »

It matters actually lol. You bought THEIR view of fun and not your perception of it like in modable tes games. It's preselected for you. Yours fun is not equal to others fun anyway.

Since I have bought it before both trials and housing were in game, I can clearly state my opinion on both. The thing is, trials didn't save ESO. Tamriel Unlimited saved it. It shows what is the perception of fun for the most player base.

colossalvoids

Console commands are not meant to be base gameplay. Enhancing game with mods (including housing mods) is part of the gameplay both in creating those mods and using them.

Same as housing. It was a luxury storage place and not an actual housing like you could have in most known example being Sims with an actual customisation and meaning outside of being a storage. You surely could mod the hell out of it but i wouldn't call it a base feature, not just because of lack of usage for an average player but because CS wasn't included in some editions. And it's still tes talk and have nothing to do with eso which had both pretty early on (trials since Craglorn and housing couple years after)

Also to elaborate why I'm bringing up housing you mentioned, it's about both things were in games since beginning but in different forms. Housing was a fancy storage base game and trials were single player - any delve or story quest were basically a trial/dungeon we have here, same quest and encounters but made into mmo with different player amount needed for completion as it's a multiplayer game meant to be played not just alone. Nothing new at all.

Wrong. I started with "trials were not from the start and were not in Elder Scrolls at all". The second part is essential and can't be thrown away.

Just look at the participation rates. In trials those are neglectable. In housing they are huge. Speak about "combat oriented" game all you want, but numbers are numbers.

It's like saying there were no combat in tes games but housing all along. Different forms and but same content, slash-slash vs placing your artifacts from that slash-slash activity, only difference being mmo and inability to cheat (or lower difficulty sometimes) for getting stuff. Is this bad or actually good thing is another topic and completely subjective, still I imagine people come here to fight and not decorate mostly. Biggest base being questers it doesn't even matter.

They are huge as it's your main area of interest, you surely not paying attention to the amount of guild or pugs running content (how would you even do that?), don't check leaderboards or even care, same as me having no idea or interest in what housing community up to as a whole. I can see only numbers of views for housing on twitch and for people doing other forms of content, same as seeing pve/pvp players spending insane amount of money to ride new apex mount each month or to make a proper guildhall with half being crown store items.

Since I have bought it before both trials and housing were in game, I can clearly state my opinion on both. The thing is, trials didn't save ESO. Tamriel Unlimited saved it. It shows what is the perception of fun for the most player base.

It's still have nothing to do with housing being more important than pve activities.
1T made game more convenient for everyone and more newbie friendly, that's about it.

rrimöykk

SilverBride wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

ESO is a mmorpg, not housing simulator. This game is not based around housing, housing is one small part of it.

The game is not based around vet trials either. That is just one small part of it.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Why any housing item is locked behind anything?

Most of them aren't. Most of them are craftable, or purchasable with event tickets, or from home goods vendors and achievement vendors, and antiquities which anyone can do.

Antiquities require a chapter so it is not available for everyone. It costs real money.

And yes, they are locked behind achievement vendor that require you to do an achievement for them. Just like this particular boat. Achievement vendors sells it for an achievement you accomplish.

Yes, most of them are craftable when you find the furniture plan or buy it for tons of gold. It either way requires farming for it.

rrimöykk

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

I think it's rediculous and short-sighted that such an amazing furnishing is locked for only those you do the trials. If they are doing that then they should at least release another version of the boat that's available to those who can't do trials. But of course they never listen to the players so I guess we'll just have to accept that the housing community is ignored again.

Housing community gets their word out far more than we who do end game. Our requests get ignored each time yet you (or we as I'm doing both) get houseguests, precision option, new houses and items all the time.

Tons of items are locked behind certain achievements. It makes you to experience the game more fully.

rrimöykk

Olauron wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

Some rewards should be rewarded from other aspects of the game so people can experience that side of the game too.

No. People should feel the need to experience only those parts of the game that they like. "If you like to eat a chocolate and you want to taste some special chocolate, then you must also taste bat guano, because reasons" (or because the one who is saying this is just a sadist) is beyond stupid.

So in that logic I want to test or have all the houses so they should be free too, right?

This has nothing with logic at all.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Seems most of you forget this is MMMORPG, not housing game. It makes perfect sense that you EARN some items by achievement something in the game. It makes you feel proud of them, make you feel you earned then. Not all items should be available for everyone. Some items are rewarded to those who earn then. That's the nature of games.

What you are forgetting is this is not a MMO RPG and even developers don't use this genre to describe it. This is Elder Scrolls Online. Housing is a big part of Elder Scrolls for decades. Trials were not even in the ESO at launch and have nothing to do with Elder Scrolls games.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Indeed why? Why houses cost gold? Why furniture plans aren't available for free or to all?

Houses cost gold, because everything cost gold. Houses were sold for gold since Oblivion.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Some items should be EARNED, not handed to you.

Earning something in a buy to play game is wrong concept. If developers want me to earn or prove something, they should be paying me, not vice versa. I am paying for having fun, not for the ability to do some absurd tests.

rrimöykk wrote: »

And I never thought you would need millions of gold to buy houses or get an ACHIEVEMENT (like from vKA) in fishing to get a boat.

Seems like you have never played Elder Scrolls games.

rrimöykk wrote: »

I started this game less than 6 months ago. If I can so it, so can you. You just need to leave your precious house and actually do something else too that is a core aspect of ESO, a mmorpg.

You clearly understood nothing. It is not a matter of can, it is a matter of want. I can eat bat guano, but I don't want to.
And, once again, ESO is not a MMO RPG and, luckily, has more features of Elder Scrolls games than of typical MMO. Otherwise it would be empty.

Impossible to have a conversation with you because you want everything handed for you for free and not put any effort.

I don't want to do pvp so I will never get the throne I'd love to have. I do not cry over it, I realize the facts. I do hope you can do that too.

rrimöykk

colossalvoids wrote: »

What you are forgetting is this is not a MMO RPG and even developers don't use this genre to describe it. This is Elder Scrolls Online. Housing is a big part of Elder Scrolls for decades. Trials were not even in the ESO at launch and have nothing to do with Elder Scrolls games.

Corporate talk about "being different" doesn't mean it's not an mmo rpg. Time to return all awards and remove mmo hashtags selling their product then?

And that's pretty hilarious to hear about housing being "big" part of the franchise when in reality actual customisable housing was introduced only in one of the small Skyrim's dlc when killing monster and ramping difficulty was there from the very start, but now you can do it with other people also as devs dreamed since first games were released.
Also about trials not being here from launch... https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25881
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/977

Earning something in a buy to play game is wrong concept. If developers want me to earn or prove something, they should be paying me, not vice versa. I am paying for having fun, not for the ability to do some absurd tests.

And yet that's how it is. You play the game intended by devs way and earning rewards for your effort. Grand Overlord, Master Angler, Godslayer all require time and effort and cover different kinds of gameplay and non of rewards should be given away freely just because.
If you'll read tos you would realise that just bought a limited access and not a game itself. If that's not what you was up to there is a customer support here for such a stuff.

Edit: forgot patch link.

Really well said. I applaud.

rrimöykk

Olauron wrote: »

If you want to compare, what is more important part of the game, then compare the consequences of removing either of these parts. You can remove trials and nothing will really change. If you remove housing, you will remove the second to most income (second to crown crates) of the game.

This right here shows your mentality about the game perfectly. You are all about getting everything with money and not putting any effort of actually achieving something.

I'm getting happier each day when I watch my boat I earned by hard work. I feel even more proud of it after I've read all your comments about the superiority or housing community and money. Your comments hurt the community even more you might realize.

Olauron

colossalvoids wrote: »

Also to elaborate why I'm bringing up housing you mentioned, it's about both things were in games since beginning but in different forms. Housing was a fancy storage base game and trials were single player - any delve or story quest were basically a trial/dungeon we have here, same quest and encounters but made into mmo with different player amount needed for completion as it's a multiplayer game meant to be played not just alone. Nothing new at all.

Wrong. Single-player experience of previous TES games is equivalent to single-player (story) experience of ESO. There is nothing such meaningless as dungeons and trials in single-player games.

colossalvoids wrote: »

It's like saying there were no combat in tes games but housing all along. Different forms and but same content, slash-slash vs placing your artifacts from that slash-slash activity, only difference being mmo and inability to cheat (or lower difficulty sometimes) for getting stuff. Is this bad or actually good thing is another topic and completely subjective, still I imagine people come here to fight and not decorate mostly. Biggest base being questers it doesn't even matter.

There was combat, but combat was not the main part. The main part was story and character development. You could create an alchemist, you could create a rogue, you could use almost full invisibility, chameleon or stealth to evade combat or hide during combat completely and for long time. Combat was just a tool (most used, but not the only one, since you could use summons to do combat instead of you) to progress the story and explore the world.

colossalvoids wrote: »

It's still have nothing to do with housing being more important than pve activities.
1T made game more convenient for everyone and more newbie friendly, that's about it.

The point is very hard (veteran) content was not able to keep population and income, while easy levelled to player content brought people in masses. Housing is exactly this, accessible to many content and thus more popular and more profitable. As you can see, ZOS is not even trying to sell trials separately.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Impossible to have a conversation with you because you want everything handed for you for free and not put any effort.

"For doing appropriate content" is not for free. "For gold" is not for free.

rrimöykk wrote: »

This right here shows your mentality about the game perfectly. You are all about getting everything with money and not putting any effort of actually achieving something.

I'm getting happier each day when I watch my boat I earned by hard work. I feel even more proud of it after I've read all your comments about the superiority or housing community and money. Your comments hurt the community even more you might realize.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

colossalvoids

Wrong. Single-player experience of previous TES games is equivalent to single-player (story) experience of ESO. There is nothing such meaningless as dungeons and trials in single-player games.

That's just your opinions and one of the points you're wrong in but nothing can be done about perception like that, you basically playing a different game to us.

There was combat, but combat was not the main part. The main part was story and character development. You could create an alchemist, you could create a rogue, you could use almost full invisibility, chameleon or stealth to evade combat or hide during combat completely and for long time. Combat was just a tool (most used, but not the only one, since you could use summons to do combat instead of you) to progress the story and explore the world

Because it was a single player game there was more freedom for such a thing, but still it was done mainly through combat. Killing things or thieving made you progress, same as here. Cloaking through Mankar or Mannimarco does nothing but prolongs the fight, same as here yet again. Not sure why i argue with you when it's getting pretty absurd lol.

The point is very hard (veteran) content was not able to keep population and income, while easy levelled to player content brought people in masses. Housing is exactly this, accessible to many content and thus more popular and more profitable. As you can see, ZOS is not even trying to sell trials separately.

Surely it can't be done alone by harder content, same as it can't be done by housing alone. Game would just die out pretty obviously, so they have both housing and raiding minorities along with 90% of seasonal players coming just do do new story and get back to other games.
TES players are not used to hard games in general, but that doesn't mean they love and participate in easier to do activities either.

When you said that with losing housing zos would lose more than from erasing trials it's pretty one sided, surely upfront money gain is different but losing most popular content creators, addon makers and active everyday players would hurt the game in a long run and probably in a more dramatic way than you can imagine. Would be pretty stupid to do so on their side, so they not only have everything included but tries to lure players in all the activities available be it housing, pvp, pve, trading/crafting or questing settings appealing rewards/features for every kind of players (trying to at least).

SilverBride

rrimöykk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

ESO is a mmorpg, not housing simulator. This game is not based around housing, housing is one small part of it.

The game is not based around vet trials either. That is just one small part of it.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Why any housing item is locked behind anything?

Most of them aren't. Most of them are craftable, or purchasable with event tickets, or from home goods vendors and achievement vendors, and antiquities which anyone can do.

Antiquities require a chapter so it is not available for everyone. It costs real money.

Yes, antiquities require a chapter that you have to purchase with real money. The reason being that antiquities were newly introduced with this chapter. (And a big draw to get players to purchase it.) But if you have an issue with antiquities not being available to everyone, whether they have the chapter or not, that is an issue for you to take up with the developers.

rrimöykk wrote: »

And yes, they are locked behind achievement vendor that require you to do an achievement for them. Just like this particular boat. Achievement vendors sells it for an achievement you accomplish.

No one said that there shouldn't be furnishings that you earn by doing achievements. Our issue is locking furnishings behind vet trials. That is not content that all players are able to achieve for various reasons.

Actually I wouldn't be adverse to having certain housing items locked behind vet trials if the items were things like banners, because those are a symbol of what you have accomplished that you can proudly display. But a boat? No.

rrimöykk wrote: »

Yes, most of them are craftable when you find the furniture plan or buy it for tons of gold. It either way requires farming for it.

Of course you have to find or buy the plans if you want to craft the item. No one thinks you should get something for nothing. But none of these things require the commitment of a vet trial. Or they shouldn't.

Olauron

colossalvoids wrote: »

That's just your opinions and one of the points you're wrong in but nothing can be done about perception like that, you basically playing a different game to us.

That is not a perception, that is objective truth. Quests in ESO and quests in TES 3 - 5 are very similar in structure, complexity and difficulty. At the same time there is no activity in TES 3 - 5 that is similar to dungeons or trials, there are no artificial lore-breaking bosses, there are no trash mobs between bosses (the whole purpose of which is to waste time and generate ultimate), there is nothing with completely separate (and artificial) difficulty and clearly there are no mechanics (thanks Auri-El for that). All cave and forts of single-player games are equivalent of delves and quest hubs in ESO zones.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Because it was a single player game there was more freedom for such a thing, but still it was done mainly through combat. Killing things or thieving made you progress, same as here. Cloaking through Mankar or Mannimarco does nothing but prolongs the fight, same as here yet again. Not sure why i argue with you when it's getting pretty absurd lol.

That is not true. It was completely possible to use summons and invisibility to completely bypass combat in single-player games. In TES 3 you didn't have to fight Dagoth Ur, you could just use the tools to destroy him without combat. In TES 4 you had Martin, in TES 5 you had ancient nords to fight instead of you. Non-combat character was fully viable.

colossalvoids wrote: »

When you said that with losing housing zos would lose more than from erasing trials it's pretty one sided, surely upfront money gain is different but losing most popular content creators, addon makers and active everyday players would hurt the game in a long run and probably in a more dramatic way than you can imagine. Would be pretty stupid to do so on their side, so they not only have everything included but tries to lure players in all the activities available be it housing, pvp, pve, trading/crafting or questing settings appealing rewards/features for every kind of players (trying to at least).

In the long run the only thing that is needed is more chapters and more story DLCs that are bringing back old players and invite new players. Those players are doing new part of the story, buy some crates, mounts, costumes and houses and then go away till next story, lessening server stress. Especially given that "in the long run" means "as long as possible with as less investment as possible". And the thing is trying to lure players in other activities can result in the opposite outcome, in players going away, because they can't do their primary activity without being punished for not doing activities they don't like.

rrimöykk

Olauron wrote: »

[snip]

That quote of yours makes me wonder why you do any gaming at all.

If you feel most of the players are pathetic by wanting to achieve things, I am so glad you will never get the exclusive items so we, the majority, can enjoy and appreciate them.

I hope you find something meaningful in life other than unreachable pixels and money.

Olauron

rrimöykk wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

[snip]

That quote of yours makes me wonder why you do any gaming at all.

If you feel most of the players are pathetic by wanting to achieve things, I am so glad you will never get the exclusive items so we, the majority, can enjoy and appreciate them.

I hope you find something meaningful in life other than unreachable pixels and money.

Why are you wondering, when I have written it a number of times by now? I play games for fun. I have also a backlog of about 30 - 40 already bought games (not counting games played), so I don't feel the pressure to do something in one game that I don't like, when I can go to any other game and do something I like.

As for exclusive things, when ZOS locked dragons behind Sunspire, I cancelled my plans to buy Jode's Embrace and bought Dawnshadow instead (for gold). That was a 15 - 20 thousand crowns loss for ZOS. That is the consequence of locking items in inappropriate for these items activities.

Actually, I have. So I can don't care about pixels and achievements that are worth less than the pixels they are demonstrated by.

TigerDRena

rrimöykk wrote: »

TigerDRena wrote: »

It's a bit odd that a vet trial is required for a furniture like that. I personally haven't done any trials yet, and will still not do them in a very long time.

I don't think it was a very suitable choice to set that requirement because the main targets of those kind of furnitures are players that mostly just do housing, from what I've seen so far.

There are tons of furniture behind different achievements. Why suddenly you all freak out about a boat? You can earn it or do fishing which also require an achievement. Literally all zone furnitures are behind different achievements. Should they remove them too? No, of course not.

This is a great system and I do hope they continue rewarding furniture by achieving something in the game. This game covers all aspects of mmorpg, not just housing or vet trials.

What exactly do you interpret in my comment as "freaking out" since you quoted me?
I stated that I don't think this choice was too suitable and giving it a reason from my point of view. Never said they should remove any achievement requirements.

Spawniaq

Well it’s better than fishing around Tamriel, at the same time grouping up with some people and learning teamwork. Showing another content to people I wished a black skin with neon red lines on it as a vet reward but we didn’t get what we want ( imagine like vmol skin but with red woooow). On the other hand we are not going to see a Viking ship in every house, it’s also good right?

NordSwordnBoard

Thannazzar wrote: »

For those of you angsting over this let me give you a crumb of comfort.

If you have this boat and place it in water at the Dock of say your new orc forge house you end up with a water filled boat that looks less than impressive.

Definitely not worth the grind or the gold cost.

Ha! I forgot, the way things clip, your boat will either need a bilge pump or the keel will be way too shallow. That's 250,000 for a boat you have to keep in dry dock lol. Maybe make kind of a longhouse out of it by putting it upside down? - it won't stop the rain, though, will it?

After some time passes and the next trial comes out, the difficulty will be reduced and become more possible for more players. Not saying it will be easy, just that over time they tend to nerf some of the older content to make it more accessible. I might go for the longhouse idea, but I'm using crowns if I ever decide to get Greybore.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greeting all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts in this thread for Baiting and Non-Constructive Back and Forth. While going back and forth may be a natural part of conversation/discussion please ensure these conversations do no devolve into fights. This can be achieved by avoiding the use of Rude or Baiting language. In the event you see another user posting something in violation of our Community Rules please do no engage them and instead report the post for the moderators to review.

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Tigerseye

rrimöykk wrote: »

And hey, to all you bashing me. I really want the Elder Scroll in my house but I don't do pvp so I will never get it. I want it but won't get it. Shall I write a forum post about it too how I should be able to get it because I'm into housing?

Yes, why not?

Would make more sense than persistently trying to make out two wrongs make a right, when we all know they don't.

Tigerseye

rrimöykk wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

If you want to compare, what is more important part of the game, then compare the consequences of removing either of these parts. You can remove trials and nothing will really change. If you remove housing, you will remove the second to most income (second to crown crates) of the game.

This right here shows your mentality about the game perfectly. You are all about getting everything with money and not putting any effort of actually achieving something.

I'm getting happier each day when I watch my boat I earned by hard work. I feel even more proud of it after I've read all your comments about the superiority or housing community and money. Your comments hurt the community even more you might realize.

People who are extremely new to housing, or who don't really do housing at all, always tend to assume that most furnishings are bought with real money.

This is simply not true.

Almost everything is craftable, drops, or is or buyable from various vendors.

A few of the houses are Crown Store only, but most aren't.

Housing probably is still an important part of the ZOS income stream, but mainly because people are buying ESO+ for the extra furnishing and storage slots, rather than because a lot of people are spending huge amounts on (mostly overpriced) housing and furniture.