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Godlike 1vX PvP equals broken game mechanics

DracoSaggitaExSole
DracoSaggitaExSole
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I just have get this out of my chest... Sorry for any feelz i might hurt with it.

In my journey of learning to to play against players, study sets, watching youtube videos for several hours and playing in BG-s and Cyro for several hours i came to a conclusion. The PvP in ESO is broken, utterly un-enjoyable unless you do the same thing that certain players do that i seen in the videos. And before all of you reading me start smashing on the buttons of "git gud" "l2p" etc let me elaborate.

It is very simple. Build or copy a high mobility, high sustain, and high weapon damage build, you can easily do this, plenty out there. Run around objects to line of sight your opponents, since you can and thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters. pick couple of high damage skills and there you have it.

Just practice with it and you can be godlike too. Not because you are a good player, its because you exploit a broken PvP system in a game.

It is broken not because they exist in my opinion, it is utterly broken because the lack of counter to this recipe described above.

Yes learning to rotate your buffs, and learning the game, and have a tonn of experience plays a significant role in it. But after you have the learned these, and have the experience you become godlike because of the above mentioned broken PvP CC mechanics in the game.

There are good players in this game, but the game of PvP in this game is far from good.

And just a few things to get out of the way. I been playing games for 20 years. Seen a lot, did a lot. I can say that ESO have the most broken PvP system off the games I have had my hands on. If you don't follow the success recipe and play a certain way you are going to feed AP to the ones who follow the recipe.

This is my opinion and experience, you are free to have yours.
  • MindOfTheSwarm
    MindOfTheSwarm
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    There are so many different sets available, that PVP is very hard if not outright impossible to balance. They nerf one thing and then everyone will just switch to sets to counter it. This is not a MOBA where characters have fixed skills that can be easily tweaked and balanced. The options in this game are huge and there will always the 'next broken' build.
  • VaranisArano
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    There's a counter: the X have to stick together and play as a group instead of stringing out to fight in a series of 1v1s. Watch an actual organized group fight a 1vXer and you'll see that "God-like" player go down in short order against a group that actually gets their damage on target because they don't spread out to chase. An "X" of random players can do the same thing if they don't spread out to chase and thus also spread out their damage.

    Common mistakes I see players make:
    A. Expecting a 1vXer or tower farmers to want a fair, stand-up duel
    B. Expecting to lock down and kill a player who's specifically built to avoid being
    locked down and killed all on your own
    C. Giving into bloodthirsty chasing to secure a kill without paying attention to the terrain or your own resources

    Its a trap.
    If you can't actually handle yourself in a 1v1 with someone who's built to run away from a 1v1 until the very moment they gain the upper hand, your best bet is to stick together and fight like an organized group.
    Maybe that hurts your pride to "zerg" or something, but it works, and then you don't look like an easy kill in someone's 1vX video.
  • nesakinter
    nesakinter
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    Basically you are saying a game that grants a lot of benefits for mastering its combat is bad?

    There is a reason a lot of PvPers stick with the game inspite of its issues.
  • DracoSaggitaExSole
    DracoSaggitaExSole
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    There's a counter: the X have to stick together and play as a group instead of stringing out to fight in a series of 1v1s. Watch an actual organized group fight a 1vXer and you'll see that "God-like" player go down in short order against a group that actually gets their damage on target because they don't spread out to chase. An "X" of random players can do the same thing if they don't spread out to chase and thus also spread out their damage.

    Common mistakes I see players make:
    A. Expecting a 1vXer or tower farmers to want a fair, stand-up duel
    B. Expecting to lock down and kill a player who's specifically built to avoid being
    locked down and killed all on your own
    C. Giving into bloodthirsty chasing to secure a kill without paying attention to the terrain or your own resources

    Its a trap.
    If you can't actually handle yourself in a 1v1 with someone who's built to run away from a 1v1 until the very moment they gain the upper hand, your best bet is to stick together and fight like an organized group.
    Maybe that hurts your pride to "zerg" or something, but it works, and then you don't look like an easy kill in someone's 1vX video.

    You know what I have to agree with the logic, but we are not talking about a dungeon or a trial to bring my pocket zerg with me to defeat a boss. The very fact that you write this, and make sense prove my point. That the CC immunity, damage avoidance, and insane self heals and the lack proper counter measures in one players kit is what make it broken.
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Lmao someone got X'd

    Of course, otherwise I would not be writing this post. Even if it was just 1v1 against the above mentioned recipe I would keep loosing over and over, since I am not playing the same setup. My issue is not that i get beaten by a better player. I can accept and live with that. My issue is that i see the pattern in what make these kind of players good. And it is the same thing over and over that a broken CC mechanics in the game.

    My point was exactly was being God tier should not be exploiting a poorly developed aspect of a game.
  • DracoSaggitaExSole
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    nesakinter wrote: »
    Basically you are saying a game that grants a lot of benefits for mastering its combat is bad?

    There is a reason a lot of PvPers stick with the game inspite of its issues.

    Mastering its combat sure will provide you the benefits, not having proper counters for certain aspects of the game make it a bad design.
  • ChimpyChumpy
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    Yeah pvp in eso is basically a bad action movie from the 80s. Guy runs around and people fall for lining up one v one. Whenever I see this in cyro I just look for the next keep to farm. I'm only there for gold geodes anyway. This play style is so boring I just focus on max hp, resistance and self heal to stay alive.
  • Stx
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    I dont watch many pvp videos but when I do the people getting 1vXd are honestly really really terrible. It has nothing to do with balance.. everyone has access to the same sets, food, mundus, etc.
  • OWLTHEMAD
    OWLTHEMAD
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    I dont find it broken at all.

    Line of sight'ers are like bad gankers with cloak. If you play their game you are going to lose. 1v1 you can usually just ignore these people and keep on moving along. 1vx with you being the x is just generally a bad idea. They are using your group to farm.

    Its a strategy designed to farm ap off noobs and bad players. It doesnt work if you either A: ignore them and move on too more productive fights or B: take advantage of what their doing to work against them.

    Its defensive play that works much like bottlenecking in a shooter. So long as your opponent remains on the defensive they are going to win.

    If you ignore them, they will either ignore you or be forced to come to you. If you can stay just outside where they are trying to los you can keep drawing them away until they screw up and they can be burst down.

    Its not broken mechanics, its strategy. So long as you dont play into their strategy the playing feild is equal.

    9 times out of ten when i see some one playing this way the group they are playing against is usually following them around obstacles like they are chasing a chicken all the same way. The moment said group wisens up and splits up to surround him they go down pretty quick.

    Snares, and traps such as the fear trap, trap beast or, the mages guild rune are strong in these situations and must be repeatedly used to wear down resources. Multiple instances of strong snairs such as veil of blades or templar/warden snairs will force these players to keep really high uptime on snair removal which is expensive and drains their resources, as well as forces them to spend less cool downs attacking and more on snair removal.

    Its still time consuming, but if you insist on fighting these players its not hard to wreck their game.
    Edited by OWLTHEMAD on May 25, 2020 6:00PM
  • nesakinter
    nesakinter
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    There's a counter: the X have to stick together and play as a group instead of stringing out to fight in a series of 1v1s. Watch an actual organized group fight a 1vXer and you'll see that "God-like" player go down in short order against a group that actually gets their damage on target because they don't spread out to chase. An "X" of random players can do the same thing if they don't spread out to chase and thus also spread out their damage.

    Common mistakes I see players make:
    A. Expecting a 1vXer or tower farmers to want a fair, stand-up duel
    B. Expecting to lock down and kill a player who's specifically built to avoid being
    locked down and killed all on your own
    C. Giving into bloodthirsty chasing to secure a kill without paying attention to the terrain or your own resources

    Its a trap.
    If you can't actually handle yourself in a 1v1 with someone who's built to run away from a 1v1 until the very moment they gain the upper hand, your best bet is to stick together and fight like an organized group.
    Maybe that hurts your pride to "zerg" or something, but it works, and then you don't look like an easy kill in someone's 1vX video.

    @VaranisArano I know you are quite experienced in organized PvP. While, you are mostly right, as someone who exclusively does 1vXing these days I will correct you on a few points.

    1) 1vXers mostly identify their targets prior to engaging and will not engage organized groups, unless there is a distraction nearby. 1vXers wont engage other 1vXers or known good players from other alliances outside of duels.
    2) Not all 1vXers build for mobility. Some builds are legit made to take a beating. Obviously though, it requires a good knowledge of terrain and identifying dire situations early but it works.
    3) 1vX does not mean literally fighting X at once. It comes down to prioritizing the order of takedowns swiftly and executing it. As you said, sometimes it can reqquire splitting the groups to easy 1v1s and 1v2s. But mostly, you don't get that luxury. More often than not, you will have multiple players on you at once. The trick is to make sure you don't get focused by more than two/three players at any given time till you have your burst combo ready. Most 1vX builds are made to survive at least two-three players.
    4) Depending on other distractions nearby, it is legit possible for certain 1vX builds to take down entire organized groups. A common case scenario organized group focused on randoms can quickly fall apart if you can target and burst down the healers. Easier said than done, but it happens. Not truly a 1vX as other people are involved but usually the 1vXer does most of the killing. Also in big fights with multiple people in both sides, it is easy to avoid dying from ball groups, cause as long as you don't directly jump in their way and avoiding staying in one places.
    5) All 1vX builds are generally high survivability builds with situational offensive procs to max out their damage potential. These kind of builds build around certain offensive windows (via sets like Fury/Acuity/Titanborn etc, certain skills) when they are significantly more powerful and is used for ult-dumps. As long as you can identify and avoid these windows, it is easier to survive 1vXers. That being said, most 1vXers are very experienced and are still a threat in a 1v1 or 1v2 scenario.
    Edited by nesakinter on May 25, 2020 6:11PM
  • SFxxKANExx
    SFxxKANExx
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    Time Stop for the Win - and fight in open field...problem solved
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    nesakinter wrote: »
    Basically you are saying a game that grants a lot of benefits for mastering its combat is bad?

    There is a reason a lot of PvPers stick with the game inspite of its issues.

    Mastering its combat sure will provide you the benefits, not having proper counters for certain aspects of the game make it a bad design.

    There are counters. It is called penetration. It is called defile. It is called timed stun or using somebody else's stun, instead of random stun spam.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    There's a counter: the X have to stick together and play as a group instead of stringing out to fight in a series of 1v1s. Watch an actual organized group fight a 1vXer and you'll see that "God-like" player go down in short order against a group that actually gets their damage on target because they don't spread out to chase. An "X" of random players can do the same thing if they don't spread out to chase and thus also spread out their damage.

    Common mistakes I see players make:
    A. Expecting a 1vXer or tower farmers to want a fair, stand-up duel
    B. Expecting to lock down and kill a player who's specifically built to avoid being
    locked down and killed all on your own
    C. Giving into bloodthirsty chasing to secure a kill without paying attention to the terrain or your own resources

    Its a trap.
    If you can't actually handle yourself in a 1v1 with someone who's built to run away from a 1v1 until the very moment they gain the upper hand, your best bet is to stick together and fight like an organized group.
    Maybe that hurts your pride to "zerg" or something, but it works, and then you don't look like an easy kill in someone's 1vX video.

    You know what I have to agree with the logic, but we are not talking about a dungeon or a trial to bring my pocket zerg with me to defeat a boss. The very fact that you write this, and make sense prove my point. That the CC immunity, damage avoidance, and insane self heals and the lack proper counter measures in one players kit is what make it broken.
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Lmao someone got X'd

    Of course, otherwise I would not be writing this post. Even if it was just 1v1 against the above mentioned recipe I would keep loosing over and over, since I am not playing the same setup. My issue is not that i get beaten by a better player. I can accept and live with that. My issue is that i see the pattern in what make these kind of players good. And it is the same thing over and over that a broken CC mechanics in the game.

    My point was exactly was being God tier should not be exploiting a poorly developed aspect of a game.

    If you are in a 1vX, you have the X with you. That's your "pocket zerg."
    Its when the "X" decides to fight like they are a bunch of solo players out for their own glory that they run into trouble.

    ESO is pretty well balanced for skilled players to 1v1, 1v2, and 1v3. All the 1vXer is doing is using Line of Sight to break up the "X" into smaller groups or solo players as they chase the 1. When they can't do that, as with organized groups or an "X" of randoms that don't break apart and chase the moment the 1vXer tries to bait them, the 1vXer goes down in short order.

    Of course, ESO can't really teach the value of cooperation and situational awareness except via experience, practice, and the school of hard knocks.
  • technohic
    technohic
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    I do think there us something about speed and movement that is exploitive of the games inability to process location accurately; but a lot of the guys I see that do 1vx are not building speed and sustain, but more burst combos, heals, and tanky enough using LOS to line up their combos.

    As someone mentioned already, your chasing puts you at a disadvantage as they have the edge to engage when that combo is ready, and you are going to not be able to line combos up because the other X are spamming CCs providing immunity during what window you have.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    nesakinter wrote: »
    There's a counter: the X have to stick together and play as a group instead of stringing out to fight in a series of 1v1s. Watch an actual organized group fight a 1vXer and you'll see that "God-like" player go down in short order against a group that actually gets their damage on target because they don't spread out to chase. An "X" of random players can do the same thing if they don't spread out to chase and thus also spread out their damage.

    Common mistakes I see players make:
    A. Expecting a 1vXer or tower farmers to want a fair, stand-up duel
    B. Expecting to lock down and kill a player who's specifically built to avoid being
    locked down and killed all on your own
    C. Giving into bloodthirsty chasing to secure a kill without paying attention to the terrain or your own resources

    Its a trap.
    If you can't actually handle yourself in a 1v1 with someone who's built to run away from a 1v1 until the very moment they gain the upper hand, your best bet is to stick together and fight like an organized group.
    Maybe that hurts your pride to "zerg" or something, but it works, and then you don't look like an easy kill in someone's 1vX video.

    @VaranisArano I know you are quite experienced in organized PvP. While, you are mostly right, as someone who exclusively does 1vXing these days I will correct you on a few points.

    1) 1vXers mostly identify their targets prior to engaging and will not engage organized groups, unless there is a distraction nearby. 1vXers wont engage other 1vXers or known good players from other alliances outside of duels.
    2) Not all 1vXers build for mobility. Some builds are legit made to take a beating. Obviously though, it requires a good knowledge of terrain and identifying dire situations early but it works.
    3) 1vX does not mean literally fighting X at once. It comes down to prioritizing the order of takedowns swiftly and executing it. As you said, sometimes it can reqquire splitting the groups to easy 1v1s and 1v2s. But mostly, you don't get that luxury. More often than not, you will have multiple players on you at once. The trick is to make sure you don't get focused by more than two/three players at any given time till you have your burst combo ready. Most 1vX builds are made to survive at least two-three players.
    4) Depending on other distractions nearby, it is legit possible for certain 1vX builds to take down entire organized groups. A common case scenario organized group focused on randoms can quickly fall apart if you can target and burst down the healers. Easier said than done, but it happens. Not truly a 1vX as other people are involved but usually the 1vXer does most of the killing. Also in big fights with multiple people in both sides, it is easy to avoid dying from ball groups, cause as long as you don't directly jump in their way and avoiding staying in one places.
    5) All 1vX builds are generally high survivability builds with situational offensive procs to max out their damage potential. These kind of builds build around certain offensive windows (via sets like Fury/Acuity/Titanborn etc, certain skills) when they are significantly more powerful and is used for ult-dumps. As long as you can identify and avoid these windows, it is easier to survive 1vXers. That being said, most 1vXers are very experienced and are still a threat in a 1v1 or 1v2 scenario.

    Thanks for adding your experience from the other side of the encounter!
  • thatESOdude
    thatESOdude
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    Your opinion is wrong.


    /Thread
  • Stx
    Stx
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    Not all 1vXers build for tankiness, some build glass, and are just good enough to pull it off. It all comes down to the Xs skill and they are usually really bad.

    It reminds me of BG kill streak videos from vanilla wow. It's cool to watch for a few minutes but it gets boring watching someone kill such bad players.
  • AMeanOne
    AMeanOne
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    I rarely ever say this, but this is a learn to play issue.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    I just have get this out of my chest... Sorry for any feelz i might hurt with it.

    In my journey of learning to to play against players, study sets, watching youtube videos for several hours and playing in BG-s and Cyro for several hours i came to a conclusion. The PvP in ESO is broken, utterly un-enjoyable unless you do the same thing that certain players do that i seen in the videos. And before all of you reading me start smashing on the buttons of "git gud" "l2p" etc let me elaborate.

    It is very simple. Build or copy a high mobility, high sustain, and high weapon damage build, you can easily do this, plenty out there. Run around objects to line of sight your opponents, since you can and thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters. pick couple of high damage skills and there you have it.

    Just practice with it and you can be godlike too. Not because you are a good player, its because you exploit a broken PvP system in a game.

    It is broken not because they exist in my opinion, it is utterly broken because the lack of counter to this recipe described above.

    Yes learning to rotate your buffs, and learning the game, and have a tonn of experience plays a significant role in it. But after you have the learned these, and have the experience you become godlike because of the above mentioned broken PvP CC mechanics in the game.

    There are good players in this game, but the game of PvP in this game is far from good.

    And just a few things to get out of the way. I been playing games for 20 years. Seen a lot, did a lot. I can say that ESO have the most broken PvP system off the games I have had my hands on. If you don't follow the success recipe and play a certain way you are going to feed AP to the ones who follow the recipe.

    This is my opinion and experience, you are free to have yours.

    that is exactly the truth.
    However, my reaction to those people that are exploiting is to find ways to kill them, and i do it well.
    i find them, i hunt them, and i learned how to kill them.
    that is what i did, and i love killing them.
    eso is an exploit dependent game, but i have found how to play it without the exploits and still win.
    speaking of pvp ofcourse, because pve is entirely different story.
  • Zelos
    Zelos
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    I just have get this out of my chest... Sorry for any feelz i might hurt with it.

    In my journey of learning to to play against players, study sets, watching youtube videos for several hours and playing in BG-s and Cyro for several hours i came to a conclusion. The PvP in ESO is broken, utterly un-enjoyable unless you do the same thing that certain players do that i seen in the videos. And before all of you reading me start smashing on the buttons of "git gud" "l2p" etc let me elaborate.

    It is very simple. Build or copy a high mobility, high sustain, and high weapon damage build, you can easily do this, plenty out there. Run around objects to line of sight your opponents, since you can and thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters. pick couple of high damage skills and there you have it.

    Just practice with it and you can be godlike too. Not because you are a good player, its because you exploit a broken PvP system in a game.

    It is broken not because they exist in my opinion, it is utterly broken because the lack of counter to this recipe described above.

    Yes learning to rotate your buffs, and learning the game, and have a tonn of experience plays a significant role in it. But after you have the learned these, and have the experience you become godlike because of the above mentioned broken PvP CC mechanics in the game.

    There are good players in this game, but the game of PvP in this game is far from good.

    And just a few things to get out of the way. I been playing games for 20 years. Seen a lot, did a lot. I can say that ESO have the most broken PvP system off the games I have had my hands on. If you don't follow the success recipe and play a certain way you are going to feed AP to the ones who follow the recipe.

    This is my opinion and experience, you are free to have yours.

    "Just practice with it and you can be godlike too". See this is very interesting becuase 85% of the player base probably disagrees and would rather run around in headless chicken mode:). If you dont want to explore and use the eso combat system to its potential there are plenty of other games you can be average at. Some of us shine to be exceptional and are able to take on multiple players at once becuase we have learned and practiced how to survive and kill fast and pick out easier targets all while getting targeted by 10 players at the same time.
    "It is very simple. Build or copy a high mobility, high sustain, and high weapon damage build, you can easily do this, plenty out there. Run around objects to line of sight your opponents, since you can and thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters. pick couple of high damage skills and there you have it."
    Yes you have described the point of MMORPGs. Which is to find the meta:)
    TLDR - I dont understand this post:) I feel like this post is stating. "Be average! Not exceptional! For my sake!"
    Edited by Zelos on May 25, 2020 10:24PM
    Aeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General

    CP1200

    Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.
  • idk
    idk
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    1vX often happens when there is a big difference between the skill level of the 1 and the X. There is a major difference in skill levels in this game, more than I have seen in any current major MMORPGs.

    On top of that, the ability to build to be very tanky in this game is a little extreme. Especially the builds that can still do some damage. I am really surprised Zos has not done something about that with the major combat changes they have made during the past year. With that, when someone is not taking damage just move on. They cannot gain AP, or have any fun if people just leave them alone.
  • out51d3r
    out51d3r
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    thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters

    CC immunity doesn't have a direct counter, it's true. Trust me though: You do NOT want CC immunity gone, or even nerfed. The players you complain about avoiding your CC now would be CCing you into oblivion if the immunity didn't exist.

    Stealth is countered by: Detect pots. Magelight. Camo hunter. Sentry set. AOE. As a Nightblade player, I can tell you stealth is WAY more fragile than you think it is.

    Heals are countered by: defile and burst damage. If you've ever wondered why burst damage is so ridiculous in this game, the answer is: it has to be, because healing is WAY too good. If you don't burst somebody within a gcd/cc, they will basically immediately heal up to full. It's not just 1vXers that have OP healing. Nearly every relevant pvper does. The difference with 1vXers is they know how to burst past the ridiculous healing, and the X do not.

    Roll dodge is countered by many things(one of the traits that defines top tier pvp builds right now is that they have an undodgeable burst ability). Notably Dawnbreaker completely ignores it. Many aoes and most beams go through dodge. Here's an old ZOS post about defense rules that might help. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4820516/#Comment_4820516

    You can't just bring your PVE build into PVP and expect to do anything against the best players out there. In fact, you shouldn't expect anything beyond mediocre performance in PVP in general unless you start building/playing around the way PVPers actually play. All pvpers CC break. All pvpers heal. All pvpers roll dodge. Many pvpers stealth. Instead of posting about how there aren't any counters, you should be looking for the counters that exist and incorporating them into your play.
    Edited by out51d3r on May 25, 2020 10:43PM
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    I just have get this out of my chest... Sorry for any feelz i might hurt with it.

    In my journey of learning to to play against players, study sets, watching youtube videos for several hours and playing in BG-s and Cyro for several hours i came to a conclusion. The PvP in ESO is broken, utterly un-enjoyable unless you do the same thing that certain players do that i seen in the videos. And before all of you reading me start smashing on the buttons of "git gud" "l2p" etc let me elaborate.

    It is very simple. Build or copy a high mobility, high sustain, and high weapon damage build, you can easily do this, plenty out there. Run around objects to line of sight your opponents, since you can and thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters. pick couple of high damage skills and there you have it.

    Just practice with it and you can be godlike too. Not because you are a good player, its because you exploit a broken PvP system in a game.

    It is broken not because they exist in my opinion, it is utterly broken because the lack of counter to this recipe described above.

    Yes learning to rotate your buffs, and learning the game, and have a tonn of experience plays a significant role in it. But after you have the learned these, and have the experience you become godlike because of the above mentioned broken PvP CC mechanics in the game.

    There are good players in this game, but the game of PvP in this game is far from good.

    And just a few things to get out of the way. I been playing games for 20 years. Seen a lot, did a lot. I can say that ESO have the most broken PvP system off the games I have had my hands on. If you don't follow the success recipe and play a certain way you are going to feed AP to the ones who follow the recipe.

    This is my opinion and experience, you are free to have yours.

    that is exactly the truth.
    However, my reaction to those people that are exploiting is to find ways to kill them, and i do it well.
    i find them, i hunt them, and i learned how to kill them.
    that is what i did, and i love killing them.
    eso is an exploit dependent game, but i have found how to play it without the exploits and still win.
    speaking of pvp ofcourse, because pve is entirely different story.

    I never know if you're complaining about cheesy tactics, saying that actual cheating is common, or if some posters genuinely think that running around obstacles or wearing cheesy gear combos is a TOS-breaking exploit.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    I just have get this out of my chest... Sorry for any feelz i might hurt with it.

    In my journey of learning to to play against players, study sets, watching youtube videos for several hours and playing in BG-s and Cyro for several hours i came to a conclusion. The PvP in ESO is broken, utterly un-enjoyable unless you do the same thing that certain players do that i seen in the videos. And before all of you reading me start smashing on the buttons of "git gud" "l2p" etc let me elaborate.

    It is very simple. Build or copy a high mobility, high sustain, and high weapon damage build, you can easily do this, plenty out there. Run around objects to line of sight your opponents, since you can and thank the CC immunity, stealth, and insane amount of self heals, and constant roll dodge and the lack of their counters. pick couple of high damage skills and there you have it.

    Just practice with it and you can be godlike too. Not because you are a good player, its because you exploit a broken PvP system in a game.

    It is broken not because they exist in my opinion, it is utterly broken because the lack of counter to this recipe described above.

    Yes learning to rotate your buffs, and learning the game, and have a tonn of experience plays a significant role in it. But after you have the learned these, and have the experience you become godlike because of the above mentioned broken PvP CC mechanics in the game.

    There are good players in this game, but the game of PvP in this game is far from good.

    And just a few things to get out of the way. I been playing games for 20 years. Seen a lot, did a lot. I can say that ESO have the most broken PvP system off the games I have had my hands on. If you don't follow the success recipe and play a certain way you are going to feed AP to the ones who follow the recipe.

    This is my opinion and experience, you are free to have yours.

    that is exactly the truth.
    However, my reaction to those people that are exploiting is to find ways to kill them, and i do it well.
    i find them, i hunt them, and i learned how to kill them.
    that is what i did, and i love killing them.
    eso is an exploit dependent game, but i have found how to play it without the exploits and still win.
    speaking of pvp ofcourse, because pve is entirely different story.

    I never know if you're complaining about cheesy tactics, saying that actual cheating is common, or if some posters genuinely think that running around obstacles or wearing cheesy gear combos is a TOS-breaking exploit.

    i was speaking to the OP and answering that person.
    if you struggle with my feedback, then it isnt for you.
  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
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    It’s funny you mention stealth as part of the 1 but in my experience outside of gankers stealth is more or a less a tool of the X. The low skill player sitting in the back of a zerg hitting cloak snipe or the mBlade soul assaulting from stealth. Those same players with 35k+ health and sustain sets because they never learned a proper rotation or how to sustain a damage build.

    The reason the 1 seems unstoppable sometimes because the X won’t step outta their comfort zone and put on proper damage build. Obviously LoS healing and mitigation are important but until the real damage dealers show up the 1 gets to run around his tower free as a bird looking “god like”.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on May 25, 2020 11:10PM
  • out51d3r
    out51d3r
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    The reason the 1 seems unstoppable sometimes because the X won’t step outta their comfort zone and put on proper damage build.

    That's one of the key differences, yes. The 1s accept the fact that any damage they do that doesn't kill their opponent is completely irrelevant. If they don't kill FAST, they aren't going to kill at all. The X hasn't grasped the nature of ESO healing yet.

  • HankTwo
    HankTwo
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    I have 5 characters with vastly different playstyles and builds. Yet I don't have any problems killing players like you mention when they are outnumbered if I really wanted to. Most solid proof for this are high mmr bg games. I've never seen a single player that could survive 4 good players when they really focus their offense. Even troll tank builds die after some continuous beating.

    That being said, yes, breaking line of sight in this game is extremely powerful, to the point when you have a fight between two (1v1), or even three (1v2) good players the one on the defense can force an endless fight with good kiting. However, this doesn't work anymore against decent players if you are vastly outnumbered. The key really is good positioning. I can tell you from my own experience doing some 1vX and 2vX that when the enemy group is just following me like headless chickens I have an easy time surviving. However, if people play smart and for example attack me from the direction where I'm headed or when they wait with ult ready to burst me at a position I will most likely kite to, I have a much, much harder time.

    What you personally think about the LOS system of eso really comes down to personal preference, but to say its an exploit isn't doing it much justice. The playing field is much more even than players realise, since everyone has access to this game mechanic and it isn't really hidden by any means (it is admittedly much more advantageous for the player on the defense, though). Last but not least, top tier players can 1vX in even very basic max stat builds, and will usually handily defeat your average player in an open field 1v1, even if the builds are 100% equal. So yeah, in the end skill plays a huge role, even if you may not like how it plays out.
    Edited by HankTwo on May 25, 2020 11:46PM
    PC EU
    Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK
  • Sahidom
    Sahidom
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    I understand the OP view.

    [Deleted remaining post]
    Edited by Sahidom on May 25, 2020 11:29PM
  • fred4
    fred4
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    This (the OP) has got to be the weirdest critique of ESO I have ever seen.
    OWLTHEMAD wrote: »
    I dont find it broken at all.
    Its a strategy designed to farm ap off noobs and bad players.
    The moment said group wisens up and splits up to surround him they go down pretty quick.
    I agree.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Everytime I watch a 1vX video I just think about how awful the X are. They make a ton of mistakes that I personally would hope not to. Thats the only reason 1vX is even possible, bad players. 2 good players will easily take out 1 good player. There's no way around that, no amount of meta sets will beat the odds of 2 to 1 on an even playing field.

    Hell, in 1vX videos, you'll see many players just watch the fight from the side because they either think it's unfair to mob 1 person down or because they know better and are just there for the show. Maybe they're not good enough, so why bother?

    I've seen 1vX videos with players spamming Endless Hail and Caltrops from 20m away as if thats going to somehow kill them.

    You want a dead give away that someone doesn't pvp? Notice when you get hit with relequen tornado stacks from a bow and target that player, you'll kill them within seconds.

    Pick your battles.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • out51d3r
    out51d3r
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    Everytime I watch a 1vX video I just think about how awful the X are. They make a ton of mistakes that I personally would hope not to. Thats the only reason 1vX is even possible, bad players. 2 good players will easily take out 1 good player. There's no way around that, no amount of meta sets will beat the odds of 2 to 1 on an even playing field.

    For anybody that doubts this and chooses to believe things like op sets make the difference, consider this:

    In a 1v4, the 1 probably has a pretty good build with resources something like this:
    6-7k weapon/spellpower.
    25k health.
    1 ability per gcd.

    The 4 probably has garbage builds with something like this:
    2.5k weapon/spellpower(ie 10k for entire group)
    15k health(ie 60k for entire group)
    1 ability per gcd(ie 4 abilities per gcd for the group)

    No matter how powerful the build on the 1, or even how garbage the builds on the X, the X in 1vX has WAY more resources at their disposal. They are using them TERRIBLY. Most importantly, they are completely squandering their advantage on the abilities per gcd side.
    Edited by out51d3r on May 26, 2020 2:09AM
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