Rich Lambert's stance on perfected master and maelstrom weapons

mairwen85

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Wow if this is true...those answers...

Is this guy a responsible working adult representing his profession or an in game troll? (slashlurk)
oO

If new more powerful weapons come out in 2026...you want those as well? Without refarming?

The weapons don't lose power. If you want MORE POWER...yah need to play to get them.

If anyone thought vMA weapons were never going to be tweaked without a refarm...they were misinformed. It's been several years without so much as a tiny nerf/buff...which is amazing, considering all the changes lately.

The reason for why they've been untouched is not so astounding really because they are back bar only weapons. Front barring a maelstrom weapon is a significant net-loss in dps. You have to build accordingly to use them effectively which gives them very narrow application. The 'new' versions are not more powerful, because the bonuses they add offer very minor boosts, if any at all over the course of an entire rotation. No one I know who has an issue with what ZOS have done this patch is bemoaning a loss of power, or demanding more power, it's about the principle of devaluing accomplishment and reward. The retrograde of having cleared and completed veteran content for veteran rewards to having completed veteran content for normal rewards.

killahsin

He is not wrong Hank.

you havent earned the new weapon.

siddique

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Wow if this is true...those answers...

Is this guy a responsible working adult representing his profession or an in game troll? (slashlurk)
oO

If new more powerful weapons come out in 2026...you want those as well? Without refarming?

The legacy weapons don't lose power. If you want MORE POWER...yah need to play to get the perfected versions.

If anyone thought vMA weapons were never going to be tweaked without a refarm...they were misinformed. It's been several years without so much as a tiny nerf/buff...which is amazing, considering all the changes lately.

The correct approach would have been to tweak the arena to add a hardmode which gave the perfected weapons. That would mean work on their part.

The "more power" doesn't come from something everyone hasn't already done. It comes from content we have farmed over the years countless times.

killahsin

All of that is irrelevant the item itself that has been added is a new variant of the item as such you havent earned said variant. A change to the loot table does not equate to all users being given everything in the new loot table.

This outrage culture nonsense is ruining games.

Firstmep

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Wow if this is true...those answers...

Is this guy a responsible working adult representing his profession or an in game troll? (slashlurk)
oO

If new more powerful weapons come out in 2026...you want those as well? Without refarming?

The legacy weapons don't lose power. If you want MORE POWER...yah need to play to get the perfected versions.

If anyone thought vMA weapons were never going to be tweaked without a refarm...they were misinformed. It's been several years without so much as a tiny nerf/buff...which is amazing, considering all the changes lately.

Arena weapons went through far bigger changes before, without requiring us to refarm them.

For example they sent out shields. to the corresponding arena 1 handers before.

They changed Arena enchantments into set bonuses.

Neither required us to refarm them.

Also the items we are going to be left with are NOT legacy items, they are obtained through normal modes of their respective arenas. Legacy items would refer to something you cant obtain anymore.

MartiniDaniels

killahsin wrote: »

He is not wrong Hank.

you havent earned the new weapon.

How he didn't earned weapon, if he already farmed ABSOLUTELY THE SAME CONTENT?

If difficulty of VMA was increased then you'll be right. But it was not increased, nothing changed, more then that, VMA actually became much easier because of new sets like PFG.

siddique

killahsin wrote: »

All of that is irrelevant the item itself that has been added is a new variant of the item as such you havent earned said variant. A change to the loot table does not equate to all users being given everything in the new loot table.

This outrage culture nonsense is ruining games.

The said variant comes from content worked on and farmed for hundreds of times. But all of that farming reward has been equated with normal maelstrom now. To take a leaf from Lambert's book, I worked hard to get a Mercedes but by the time it was delivered to me it became a Honda.

killahsin

I fully understand that however that does not mean that every single item variant and drop table change added to the game throughout the course of its entire existence should be automatically given to the users.

I do understand that is what users expect neigh DEMAND as we can see here in a 13 page thread. However outside of very recent changes in the industry this has never been the industry standard or practice.

you didnt earn the new item variant you earned the old item variant. Does that suck? Yes. does it offer the ability for corporations to abuse this type of thing? Yes. Do many game companies already abuse this type of thing? Yes.

Is this an abuse of this type of thing? I'm, not so sure.

Users asked for this addition, users got this addition. Could it have been handled differently offering a hard mode variant? Sure.

gronoxvx

Look, ultimately i dont care that theres perfected maelstrom weapons (as all the testing shows its very little difference parse wise). What i DO care about is that maelstrom is so ridiculously bugged on XB1 which makes the grind that much more infuriating.

gatekeeper13

Fanboys support ANYTHING this company does. Even the VMA weapons changes are fine for them.

mzprx

killahsin wrote: »

All of that is irrelevant the item itself that has been added is a new variant of the item as such you havent earned said variant. A change to the loot table does not equate to all users being given everything in the new loot table.

This outrage culture nonsense is ruining games.

what do you mean "i haven't earned said variant"? i have! it's a reward for completing the MA on Veteran difficulty. i did just that. several hundred times. i have a couple of Flawless Conquerors and all my other characters are Stormproof. i have earned those rewards plenty of times. and more. just because they decided to change the name or the reward it doesn't mean that we're supposed to be OK with having our time spent in vMA devalued (not talking about gold upgrade materials here, that is just adding an insult to injury) by not changing our existing Veteran (!!!) weapons. remember, time is the ONLY commodity in life you can't get back. now we have to spend more of it (time) IF we want our rewards to match our achievements. that is simply ridiculous. instead of playing the Greymoor chapter i am supposed to go and farm the silly arena that i've completed enough times to hate it with passion. and we're supposed to be happy about it? about the stupid RNG that decides that you'll get your desired weapon... next year, maybe? about the lag that makes you want to chew on your keyboard, about the de-sync that shows you archers facing completely different direction and yet killing you, about all the time we've wasted and need to waste again to make our builds as good as we want them to be? is that why i purchased the new chapter? to play it AFTER i've finished grinding something i've no intention of grinding? no, sir..

killahsin

No you have not. You earned the item that dropped for you at the time of completion. Rephrasing the argument a thousand different ways does not change that fact. Players specifically requested this addition when the perfected variants first came out.

I understand the rational of the argument clearly however saying you earned the item is not true. You earned the item you got, specifically.

siddique

mzprx wrote: »

killahsin wrote: »

All of that is irrelevant the item itself that has been added is a new variant of the item as such you havent earned said variant. A change to the loot table does not equate to all users being given everything in the new loot table.

This outrage culture nonsense is ruining games.

what do you mean "i haven't earned said variant"? i have! it's a reward for completing the MA on Veteran difficulty. i did just that. several hundred times. i have a couple of Flawless Conquerors and all my other characters are Stormproof. i have earned those rewards plenty of times. and more. just because they decided to change the name or the reward it doesn't mean that we're supposed to be OK with having our time spent in vMA devalued (not talking about gold upgrade materials here, that is just adding an insult to injury) by not changing our existing Veteran (!!!) weapons. remember, time is the ONLY commodity in life you can't get back. now we have to spend more of it (time) IF we want our rewards to match our achievements. that is simply ridiculous. instead of playing the Greymoor chapter i am supposed to go and farm the silly arena that i've completed enough times to hate it with passion. and we're supposed to be happy about it? about the stupid RNG that decides that you'll get your desired weapon... next year, maybe? about the lag that makes you want to chew on your keyboard, about the de-sync that shows you archers facing completely different direction and yet killing you, about all the time we've wasted and need to waste again to make our builds as good as we want them to be? is that why i purchased the new chapter? to play it AFTER i've finished grinding something i've no intention of grinding? no, sir..

And the troll in stage 5 that won't stop coming..😅🤦‍♂️

MartiniDaniels

killahsin wrote: »

I fully understand that however that does not mean that every single item variant and drop table change added to the game throughout the course of its entire existence should be automatically given to the users.

I do understand that is what users expect neigh DEMAND as we can see here in a 13 page thread. However outside of very recent changes in the industry this has never been the industry standard or practice.

you didnt earn the new item variant you earned the old item variant. Does that suck? Yes. does it offer the ability for corporations to abuse this type of thing? Yes. Do many game companies already abuse this type of thing? Yes.

Is this an abuse of this type of thing? I'm, not so sure.

Users asked for this addition, users got this addition. Could it have been handled differently offering a hard mode variant? Sure.

Like others already said, ESO has major advantage over other MMORPGs. ESO has minimal amount of grind. I tried other MMORPGs but I given up in few weeks because I saw the pile of grind I must do. In ESO grind and fight with RNG exists only in arenas and some dungeons when you need meta weapon like BSW inferno or Truth Maul. So what ZOS does - he re-introduces grind in 2 of 3 existing arenas for those who already grinded them many times.
And to add to that, we don't receive no single explanation on this decision, no slightest amount of new content/mechanics to make that grind interesting.

killahsin

I get the argument I do. The argument has relevance and should be debated. However the notion or reasoning that one has already earned everything derived in the future from said content because you did it in the past operates counter to not only the current design structure where old content will need to be tweaked like this throughout the evolution depending on changes made in new content. Especially given the scalar nature of the entire product. But even more so now that they are adding systems that are intermingling between the new and old sections/systems.

I agree that this could have and perhaps should have been handled differently. But pretending the weapon you currently have acquired is the same item as the weapon you have not yet acquired is not being genuine. They changed the rules of the scalar system in new content, players specifically requested for this to happen in the old content. Players were given what they asked for. Players then demand new item for already doing old content and suggest there is more sinister ulterior motives behind the addition of the itemization the players requested. It's not a genuine argument.

siddique

killahsin wrote: »

I get the argument I do. The argument has relevance and should be debated. However the notion or reasoning that one has already earned everything derived in the future from said content because you did it in the past operates counter to not only the current design structure where old content will need to be tweaked like this throughout the evolution depending on changes made in new content. Especially given the scalar nature of the entire product. But even more so now that they are adding systems that are intermingling between the new and old sections/systems.

I agree that this could have and perhaps should have been handled differently. But pretending the weapon you currently have acquired is the same item as the weapon you have not yet acquired is not being genuine. They changed the rules of the scalar system in new content, players specifically requested for this to happen in the old content. Players were given what they asked for. Players then demand new item for already doing old content and suggest there is more sinister ulterior motives behind the addition of the itemization the players requested. It's not a genuine argument.

The content is old. My weapon was earned in a content that now offers a higher quality item. My item was worth veteran difficulty which is now reduced to normal difficulty. Due to no change in content or gameplay. But to a brainwave that the developers are still trying to find a way around to justify.

SaintSubwayy

killahsin wrote: »

No you have not. You earned the item that dropped for you at the time of completion. Rephrasing the argument a thousand different ways does not change that fact. Players specifically requested this addition when the perfected variants first came out.

I understand the rational of the argument clearly however saying you earned the item is not true. You earned the item you got, specifically.

The items I once dropped in vMA had an addition 189 SD on...so can I have that back then pls?
(still lightyears stronger than the measly spellpen )

Oh wait back in the days i got a Viperset, when it was completly busted for pvp...please return this to me aswell, thank you.

Oh how about the 3000WD vMA DW Daggers....which have been nerfed to uselessness in the meantime, maybe this patch can bring them back a little, but I dont think so


Na dude srsly, the ONLY correct Zos could have adressed this issue was to revert the vMA Weapon nerfs a few years back and add the "imperfected" version to the nMA nDSA.
THAT and only THAT would have been the right way.
(189SD and other values for 1pc may have been adjusted, this woiuld have been ok IMO)

killahsin

I used to make 10 dollars an hour at McDonalds and then they made it 15 dollars an hour. I already did all that work for 5 years. I estimate that McDonalds owes me 5 years of 5 dollars per hour for 52 weeks a year comes out tot a total of 52 thousand dollars.

Thankfully I never worked at McDonalds cause i would be pissed too. I understand this is not a 1 to 1 argument as this is a product you purchased however you also purchased the pants for your uniform.

Raudgrani

Firstmep wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Wow if this is true...those answers...

Is this guy a responsible working adult representing his profession or an in game troll? (slashlurk)
oO

If new more powerful weapons come out in 2026...you want those as well? Without refarming?

The legacy weapons don't lose power. If you want MORE POWER...yah need to play to get the perfected versions.

If anyone thought vMA weapons were never going to be tweaked without a refarm...they were misinformed. It's been several years without so much as a tiny nerf/buff...which is amazing, considering all the changes lately.

Arena weapons went through far bigger changes before, without requiring us to refarm them.

For example they sent out shields. to the corresponding arena 1 handers before.

They changed Arena enchantments into set bonuses.

Neither required us to refarm them.

Also the items we are going to be left with are NOT legacy items, they are obtained through normal modes of their respective arenas. Legacy items would refer to something you cant obtain anymore.

Yeah, for some reason we didn't have to farm new Maelstrom weapons, to get the worse "2017(?) model", there was apparently no difficulty in just giving us the new (worse) car model that time. We had the new "model" for free. So it's definitely not "a matter of principle". As far as I've understood it, we are about to get that pre 2017(?) model now again, for clearing the content again on veteran.

This one does not understand! Have old model, get new model (not that we liked it that time) - but next time no, keep same?

Edit: I actually ran VMA yesterday, for getting the flawless on my new Stamcro. I had the following drops: S&B, DW, 2x Ice Staff, 2H Axe & 2H Maul. Anyone recognize that type of RNG? Yes, it took me six runs to get flawless. I tend to forget the strict coreography... LOL

anitajoneb17_ESO

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

No.

Adding a normal drop and a "perfected" Vet drop could have been a win-win for everyone. Zos decided to create a win-lose-win situation. Your so called "peasents" get chance to get maelstrom weapons, players who can easily do vetMA get a perfected version for an additional time investment. But those players who lose out the most are the ones who spent weeks, months or longer, getting the weapon they wanted or even on their first completion of content they found very hard, unenjoyable and often bugged and said they would never go back in.

I spent a couple of weeks learning and running vMA, ending up with the weapons I wanted in less than 10 runs. It never felt like an achievement, just a relief it was over.

silvereyes wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".

The only peasant thing about this issue is the idea that it's about elitism.

Those ideas might come from the minds of individuals excluded from groups because of lack of competence.

While I agree that the core issue isn't about lording vet weapons over anyone, can you at least take a step back and reflect on how condescending that sweeping generalization sounds?

I understand nobody likes being called elitist or entitled, but nobody likes to be called incompetent either. We're all here to play games and have fun. Please stop with the name-calling and loaded language. It's not helpful.

Thank you @silvereyes .

I'd like to remind everyone here that I did not use the word "elitists". Some of you did, based on the fact that I used the word "peasants". Let me get this straight : I don't call "THEM" peasants, I call MYSELF a peasant, in a very kind and positive way. Myself, and all the people who play ESO in a non-competitive approach. And let me explain why : when I started ESO in 2014, I had no idea (and was curious) of how a game could be neverending, aka "infinite", when the world, the activities, the stories and the developing resources are finite.

In 2015 I was on "top", I had played the entire game world that was available then, I had BiS gear and had learned (with great effort) an efficient rotation, and I was playing trials 3 nights a week. Then came the famous "1.6" update and everything changed. I had to re-learn, re-gear, re-... everything. And then I understood : the only way a developer can make the game "infinite" with finite resource is by nullifying previous game time and making replay relevant again by changing/adding to the "rewards". We are the hamsters in the wheel, on our own free will. And as long as the "goal" looks nice, we'll keep the wheel turning. Problem is, the wheel is real, the goal isn't, it will never be permanent, it will always be changed in order to keep the wheel turning.

So I chose to concentrate on aspects of the game (social - trading - questing - enjoying the scenery, etc...) that can never be taken away from me (at least, not as long as the servers are up). That's why I happily call myself a "peasant".

I understand that many people still want to play "combat" and "competition", and I respect that, but then, they MUST live with the fact that they'll have to adapt to changes that are DESIGNED to make them re-grind and re-play and change and re-learn. The thing with the Maelstroem weapons is in essence no different from buffs/nerves and so-called "balance changes" which are simply made to change BiS and META to make people replay, regrind, reroll... in short : keep 'em busy.

The outburst here about the maelstroem weapons sound to me like hamsters who are fed up with running the wheel and having to do it all over, but so blinded that they don't realize that the cage is open and they can leave any time. If you don't want to re-farm VMA for perfected weapons (which are not really needed considering the extra stats are rather tiny), then DON'T. Problem solved.

On a side note, I believe there's always been a problem with VMA. Apart from a handful of players who are absolute fans of this arena, I think it's simply not fun enough. Reactions would be less acute if players actually had positive memories about their original VMA grind.

siddique

killahsin wrote: »

I used to make 10 dollars an hour at McDonalds and then they made it 15 dollars an hour. I already did all that work for 5 years. I estimate that McDonalds owes me 5 years of 5 dollars per hour for 52 weeks a year comes out tot a total of 52 thousand dollars.

Thankfully I never worked at McDonalds cause i would be pissed too. I understand this is not a 1 to 1 argument as this is a product you purchased however you also purchased the pants for your uniform.

This is an absurd argument.

ZeroXFF

.

killahsin wrote: »

No you have not. You earned the item that dropped for you at the time of completion. Rephrasing the argument a thousand different ways does not change that fact. Players specifically requested this addition when the perfected variants first came out.

I understand the rational of the argument clearly however saying you earned the item is not true. You earned the item you got, specifically.

I earned the 2016 version of Plague Doctor, one that gave 6k HP with the 5p bonus, yet somehow all versions of that set give 3k HP now.

If downgrading a set that is already in our inventories is ok, the same should be true for upgrades. Otherwise I demand my 6k Plague Doctor back!

Also, as many pointed out, it is one thing when better gear comes with new content (this includes level cap increases), but making us re-farm the same content for the better gear is an insult. We earned the veteran rewards, we should keep the veteran rewards, not have them downgraded to normal rewards.

EmEm_Oh

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Fanboys support ANYTHING this company does. Even the VMA weapons changes are fine for them.

Not really. I've been critical of zos.

I will agree, it was a bad idea to launch the Perfected series the way it was...but should not be confused with self-entitled items just because it involves the same process and location.

Let's be honest...it was the least amount of dev-necessary work to do this. Why zos didn't think it would irritate prior users is beyond me.

A better solution would have been to delay perfected weapons...and create an additional stage or two in vMA.

siddique

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Fanboys support ANYTHING this company does. Even the VMA weapons changes are fine for them.

Not really. I've been critical of zos.

I will agree, it was a bad idea to launch the Perfected series the way it was...but should not be confused with self-entitled items just because it involves the same process and location.

Let's be honest...it was the least amount of dev-necessary work to do this. Why zos didn't think it would irritate prior users is beyond me.

A better solution would have been to delay perfected weapons...and create an additional stage or two in vMA.

Which would have been perfect. A vma hardmode. Not even too hard to implement. Just pick the damn crystal mech from fanglair hardmode and have a Colossus pop up for every crystal destroyed upstairs. And buff the health of the boss so he can't be nuked right away.

Raudgrani

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I am trying to get a list of points for both argument side, without silly arguments like the bonus stat that the weapons had before they could carry an enchantment.

For not upgrading:
* New weapons should be farmed a new
* Initiative to run old content
* It is zos's choice
For upgrading:
* Not upgrading devalues the time vets spent on their current weapons
* The new reward is actually nMA drops, and not the perfected that will drop in vet
* Forcing perfectionists run the content in its current bugged state is wrong


Did I convey both sides right?

I heard only one reasonable comment for not upgrading (from Moonsorrow) - to make veterans to run vDSA again, because otherwise newbies simply have nobody to run with, especially PVP ones which don't have good PVE toons

And I'll completely remove and forget argument about normal MA drops - it immediately triggers some players to start song about toxic elitists, which can de-rail any discussion if such discussion will happen in ZOS. I mean fact that maelstrom weapons will now drop is normal - it is good change, it is not linked with non-upgrading existing weapons in any way and it's better not to be mentioned at all.

I'm originally a PVP'er, but because of the state of the game, I am on a leave from PVP and do PVE instead. Already prior to this, I have been helping PVP'ers out getting Master Weapons. But it's not like I stood in Mournhold and announced I'm helping people get VDSA weapons - I helped friends, and I might do it again. I wouldn't help PVP'ers who are too lazy to learn PVE (which is OFTEN the case!) just for the sake of it, but because it benefits me if group members have better gear.

ZOS "forces" at least Stamina PVE'ers to grind PVP content for abilities, without any consideration. Why would they show some kind of courtesy to "new players" by forcing us to re-grind VDSA weapons? Nobody helped us when we got them.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I think the worst thing about this is that someone had to leak a private discord conversation for us to learn about the opinion of ZOS' important people.

Why can't we just have a normal discussion with the Devs? It could go something like this:

• GinaBruno posts a sticky to the forum with topics they want feedback on.
• There are threads for each topic being made where feedback and arguments are collected
• after time has passed the feedback gets condensed and properly written down by one person and the first reply of the thread gets edited so everyone can see the points that have already been made
• then ZOS goes and looks at the forum thread's first replies and gives a quick statement on each of the points before going back to work
• the forum then responds to the response by stating their counter arguments in the same fashion. This repeats until...
• In the best case an agreement can be found that makes both sides happy which is then implemented. In the worst case it is exposed the two sides of the argument follow different mutually exclusive paradigms, in which case ZOS goes with what their own views tell them is right, since they are the ones making the game, but at least that way it is easier to understand for the community what the developers actually think and vice versa.

We have class reps. Why aren't they being made use of? They could be the moderators in this and be the ones gathering the feedback. A lot of them are also very qualified for this task already, seeing how a lot of them are well-spoken and have good game knowledge that allows them to understand the issues at hand better.

Seems they ain't having a normal or abnormal discussion about this. All they give us is silence, since the "a 2018 car isn't a 2020 car, right?" comment.

Well, you know one thing is to go wreck some newbies on low MMR BG to grab vigor, horn and purge on new character (+ daily XP bonus + transmute) and it is another story to gather vDSA group at least several times and it worst MANY times to receive master's DW, bow, 2H, resto, inferno... I think even vDSA S&B can be good next patch...
Of course I just want to upgrade my weapons without doing anything, but I understand position of relatively new players. Because it is really hard to get into vDSA group if your toon doesn't have achievement about it's completion... I started playing in 2018 and I passed this stage. After I got achievement (and ton of CP) I may just join any occasional craglorn vdsa pug... but when I didn't had that achievement on tank&dps, nobody even bothered to hear that I read all mechanics, had couple normal runs to see how those mechanics looks etc, have achievements of harder content. Nobody cares and nobody wants to teach, everybody wants ready solution and fast run. So I eventually grouped up with some guildmates who never completed it and we dealt with it and since then it's no problem... but to get that first completion was a real issue.

Yes, I do not disagree. But I recon they think something like that old PVE people shall start educating newcomers in this. Previously I have only been doing it "out of sheer skill", not knowing exactly when and where everything spawns. Did it with sort of new friends recently, and they knew exaaaactly when and where everything spawns, so we were there killing it same second it appears. It's an enormous difference to "farm VDSA" with such a group, compared to running around like surprised chickens all the time. Of course I've known the basic mechanics and such, but not when and where eeeeevery single enemy spawns. Amazing difference. And I know for sure, those guys would hardly bring any total "dead load" into such runs. And I guess most similar groups reason like that.

Env_t

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

killahsin wrote: »

He is not wrong Hank.

you havent earned the new weapon.

How he didn't earned weapon, if he already farmed ABSOLUTELY THE SAME CONTENT?

If difficulty of VMA was increased then you'll be right. But it was not increased, nothing changed, more then that, VMA actually became much easier because of new sets like PFG.

technically it isnt absolutely the same due to all class/combat changes in patch

killahsin

And like I said I understand the argument and the argument is that they should have introduced a hard mode to drop the item. Cool. Good argument. However that argument is not the same as stating you already earned the commodity as such you deserve the new commodity also. And we are all just going to pretend while we make this part of the argument that the players themselves didnt request this addition when perfected sets were introduced. One argument is genuine the other is not. There is a argument to be had about how to go about adding scalar item sets like the perfected ones to old content especially considering the way they are adding systems to send you back to old content in the game now.

However saying i did it then i deserve it now is not being authentic.

mairwen85

ZeroXFF wrote: »

.

killahsin wrote: »

No you have not. You earned the item that dropped for you at the time of completion. Rephrasing the argument a thousand different ways does not change that fact. Players specifically requested this addition when the perfected variants first came out.

I understand the rational of the argument clearly however saying you earned the item is not true. You earned the item you got, specifically.

I earned the 2016 version of Plague Doctor, one that gave 6k HP with the 5p bonus, yet somehow all versions of that set give 3k HP now.

If downgrading a set that is already in our inventories is ok, the same should be true for upgrades. Otherwise I demand my 6k Plague Doctor back!

Also, as many pointed out, it is one thing when better gear comes with new content (this includes level cap increases), but making us re-farm the same content for the better gear is an insult. We earned the veteran rewards, we should keep the veteran rewards, not have them downgraded to normal rewards.

100% agree. I know some people keep latching onto the word 'downgrade' as if it dispels any argument because nothing is actually being downgraded on the weapons themselves, but that is overlooking the point. The reward system is a downgrade. Clearing veteran content is the criteria for earning veteran reward -- the criteria has not changed, so why should the reward be a lower tier reward?

Raudgrani wrote: »

I actually ran VMA yesterday, for getting the flawless on my new Stamcro. I had the following drops: S&B, DW, 2x Ice Staff, 2H Axe & 2H Maul. Anyone recognize that type of RNG? Yes, it took me six runs to get flawless. I tend to forget the strict coreography... LOL

And semi-humorously, you received a normal reward for each of those runs, but you'll get your veteran reward for that effort in the weekly mail, because that makes perfect sense /s

siddique

killahsin wrote: »

And like I said I understand the argument and the argument is that they should have introduced a hard mode to drop the item. Cool. Good argument. However that argument is not the same as stating you already earned the commodity as such you deserve the new commodity also. And we are all just going to pretend while we make this part of the argument that the players themselves didnt request this addition when perfected sets were introduced. One argument is genuine the other is not. There is a argument to be had about how to go about adding scalar item sets like the perfected ones to old content especially considering the way they are adding systems to send you back to old content in the game now.

However saying i did it then i deserve it now is not being authentic.

They said they wanted to "standardize" it with other trials where normal difficulty dropped normal weapons. But they forgot to play their game and realize that perfected weapons drop from HARDMODE not simple veteran. So their own argument for "standardization" fell on its face.

Raudgrani

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

I am glad I never farmed any of these weapons.

Can't wait to enjoy farming them now.

That's what goes through my head literally every time I'm thinking of updating a build. It goes mostly like: "Seems great. But is this the new DLC sales pitch set? Yes, it seems to. They implement this, even though they know it will be 'too OP', so you can expect a nerf to follow shortly", and I'm very hesitant to go through with any build update (contrary to how it's SUPPOSED to be!). Last time I did a change to an existing character, was a week or so before they let us know they will nerf Stonekeeper monster set, along with like every other monster set (of course, to make these "Mythic Items" - the new sales pitch!). It didn't really require much to get it, but it kind of illustrates the problem we have.