Malacath's Band of Brutality: Is it brutal enough in terms of damage?

TheInfernalRage

Feels like it should be somewhere along 55%-75% damage increase, because the inability to do critical damage is just brutally terrible with only 25%. I'd say 70% in PVE and 25% in PVP.

Wing

its fine.

its already considered to be possibly op in some scenarios.

its not supposed to be a must have meta item, its supposed to be a shiny "good enough" trap for people that don't know how to do math or cannot get monster sets.

BohnT2

No those 25% are already highly overtuned in PvP as they give you the damage you'd deal with crits but on every single hit.
That means it basically gives a 100% crit bonus while also ignoring any investment people did to combat crits.

It's one of the most game breaking sets this game has ever seen, what makes it worse is that it'll highly affect the meta and change how builds have to work.

Jaxaxo

This thing is gonna highly overperform in nocp environment. Since we get 1350 base impen (20% dmg reduction from crits, of course, if it's gonna work), base crit modifier for ppl without any impenetrable piece (which still is kinda good) are gonna get 30% more dmg (40% for classes with modifier: templar/nb/kinda magden). So we either have 25% more dmg ALL THE TIME (working also for procs) or 30-40% (assuming enemy doenst have any impenetrable piece, in which i doubt) when we crit (and crit chance oscilate kinda 10-50% chance in no cp, higher values if u build for it). It doesnt look balanced for me, especially that u can go for heavy armor build with few procs and just get to much out of this mythic piece. Lower % dmg, maybe remove crit healing also. At least dont introduce it like that.

Lughlongarm

This set is already borderline OP, very strong even in a CP environment. If anything, I expect nerfs not buffs(hope it will stay as is).

wheem_ESO

I kinda think it's going to end up being pretty OP in a no-CP PvP environment, but I hope I'm wrong. If the damage needs to be improved for PvE, since it seems like people usually build for a lot of crit there, then fine I'm OK with that. But if that happens, it definitely needs to function differently in PvP than it does in PvE.

Kolzki

It’s best to think of it as a pvp only item, particularly for no cp where it’s so strong that it’s borderline broken. It’s bad for pve. Really bad. You would gain dps by leaving the item slot empty. Does it need to be useful in both pvp and pve though? In my opinion no, it doesn’t.

BaiterOfZergs

Might be too brutal in pvp. Without sacrificing much since you can still wear 3 sets with certain mythic items. I expect 3 piece sets to become more popular.

martijnlv40

Kolzki wrote: »

It’s best to think of it as a pvp only item, particularly for no cp where it’s so strong that it’s borderline broken. It’s bad for pve. Really bad. You would gain dps by leaving the item slot empty. Does it need to be useful in both pvp and pve though? In my opinion no, it doesn’t.

While I agree that it won't be seriously used in PvE, it's not true that you would better leave the slot open. There are enough sets that you can use to build a non-crit build. You would perhaps end up with 25% crit chance (the 9% plus the class 6% crit chance), but you can use all your bonuses for resource, spell/weapon damage, buffs and procs. The procs cannot crit, so they will see a big increase in their damage output. If you're good and you build your build accordingly, it's not really 'bad', it's just 'not good'.

ketsparrowhawk

A 50% crit rate is roughly +25% damage increase compared to 0% crit rate. So this is giving you about the same amount of damage as a typical crit rate, but removes the RNG factor. Seems like a good trade off. I imagine they'll drop it to +20% at some point. It'll be BIS for any builds that rely on set procs like Grothdarr/Skoria/Selene/etc for damage

Wuuffyy

Jaxaxo wrote: »

This thing is gonna highly overperform in nocp environment. Since we get 1350 base impen (20% dmg reduction from crits, of course, if it's gonna work), base crit modifier for ppl without any impenetrable piece (which still is kinda good) are gonna get 30% more dmg (40% for classes with modifier: templar/nb/kinda magden). So we either have 25% more dmg ALL THE TIME (working also for procs) or 30-40% (assuming enemy doenst have any impenetrable piece, in which i doubt) when we crit (and crit chance oscilate kinda 10-50% chance in no cp, higher values if u build for it). It doesnt look balanced for me, especially that u can go for heavy armor build with few procs and just get to much out of this mythic piece. Lower % dmg, maybe remove crit healing also. At least dont introduce it like that.

Why is no-cp and bgs a baseline for anything? First of all that campaign should be locked to anyone above a certain amount of cp tbh

Derra

If people don´t adjust their templates heavily (they have no reason to do so and it´s expensive) due to getting base crit resistance (which admittedly currently doesn´t work on pts) classes with no access to other sources of critdmg outside of 22% from cp will most likely gain dmg with malacath compared to a critical strike.

A CP build 72% crit dmg does the same dmg with a critical strike as malacath does with every hit vs 3400 impen. You reach 3400 impen on pts with only 4 to 5 impen gear pieces. An unadjusted live build going pvp will have between 3800 and 4100 impen with the current pts changes.

Then malacath also lets you eliminate defensive sets relying on crit entirely.
Transmutation, Impreg, critical and wizards riposte - all entirely useless vs malacath.

Not equipping malacath currently only makes sense on a class and/or race with critdmg passive while also having invested in crit chance and dmg further via sets or skills. The interesting part in that regard is that this investment generally goes at the cost of basedmg and healing and most likely makes that approach not optimal to begin with outside of very niche scenarios.
On everything else outside this beforementioned niche scenario malacath is absolutely BIS by rougly the stat value of 50 to 70% critchance (going with the low number due to healing not being affected malacath is worth roughly 13 setbonuses of crit in cp pvp).

[Edit to remove quoted content]

kojou

While I don't support buffing it, I don't support nerfing it either. I think 25% is about right since a 50% crit chance to do 50% more damage is about the equivalent to it, and it is relatively easy to stack more crit chance and damage than that.

I like this part of the direction development is taking, since you can choose to either stack crit and have a higher ceiling and more uncertainty, or have a lower ceiling, but a higher base.

Also, keep in mind it does not buff your self healing.

Kolzki

martijnlv40 wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

It’s best to think of it as a pvp only item, particularly for no cp where it’s so strong that it’s borderline broken. It’s bad for pve. Really bad. You would gain dps by leaving the item slot empty. Does it need to be useful in both pvp and pve though? In my opinion no, it doesn’t.

While I agree that it won't be seriously used in PvE, it's not true that you would better leave the slot open. There are enough sets that you can use to build a non-crit build. You would perhaps end up with 25% crit chance (the 9% plus the class 6% crit chance), but you can use all your bonuses for resource, spell/weapon damage, buffs and procs. The procs cannot crit, so they will see a big increase in their damage output. If you're good and you build your build accordingly, it's not really 'bad', it's just 'not good'.

Add the medium armour crit bonus, easy availability of major savagery and crit bonuses on any of the good set choice and it’s very hard to run much under 50% crit chance. We also have major and minor force increasing crit damage. It needs a really inefficient cp allocation because we have nowhere better to put the cp points with diminishing returns. Also, the shadow is by far the strongest mundus stone for pve, followed by the thief.

I tried a relequen, lokke setup with the malacath band. It had 50% crit when trying not to put anything into crits. That’s 25% damage without buffs. With trap that goes up to 30%. Add warhorn and it’s 37.5% added damage. Add an efficient cp allocation with point in crit damage and that goes up to 47.5% added damage.

There are indeed sets without crit bonuses but other sets are better. The 25% damage done from the malacath band is small compared to the damage gained from crits in pve, even without optimising into crit damage. We’d also lose a monster set to run the mythic item.

So yes, I took off the malacath band, leaving the slot open, and gained a few k dps. It’s a pvp set. Let it be a pvp set.

Greek_Hellspawn

BohnT2 wrote: »

No those 25% are already highly overtuned in PvP as they give you the damage you'd deal with crits but on every single hit.
That means it basically gives a 100% crit bonus while also ignoring any investment people did to combat crits.

It's one of the most game breaking sets this game has ever seen, what makes it worse is that it'll highly affect the meta and change how builds have to work.

This ^^

Wuuffyy

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

No those 25% are already highly overtuned in PvP as they give you the damage you'd deal with crits but on every single hit.
That means it basically gives a 100% crit bonus while also ignoring any investment people did to combat crits.

It's one of the most game breaking sets this game has ever seen, what makes it worse is that it'll highly affect the meta and change how builds have to work.

This ^^

[Snip] What’s your comment on the grind or in situations when you need to deal with trash packs of players that stack damage and zerg with tank gear?

[Edited for bait]

olsborg

If they made this ring not buff item sets/proccs such as grothdarr, zaan or selene etc...it would be more balanced imo.

clocksstoppe

kojou wrote: »

Also, keep in mind it does not buff your self healing.

You don't need to heal yourself if you just kill your enemy before they can damage you.

Suligost

They should nerf it to 20% or less.

wheem_ESO

The grind involved makes things worse, not better. If the ring ends up being overpowered in PvP, and doesn't get nerfed promptly, you'll need to do a long, boring grind (and spend $40) in order to be competitive with those who have the ring. Being competitive in PvP shouldn't require a long PvE grind any more than being competitive in PvE should require hours and hours of playing PvP for those who don't enjoy it.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

This thing is gonna highly overperform in nocp environment. Since we get 1350 base impen (20% dmg reduction from crits, of course, if it's gonna work), base crit modifier for ppl without any impenetrable piece (which still is kinda good) are gonna get 30% more dmg (40% for classes with modifier: templar/nb/kinda magden). So we either have 25% more dmg ALL THE TIME (working also for procs) or 30-40% (assuming enemy doenst have any impenetrable piece, in which i doubt) when we crit (and crit chance oscilate kinda 10-50% chance in no cp, higher values if u build for it). It doesnt look balanced for me, especially that u can go for heavy armor build with few procs and just get to much out of this mythic piece. Lower % dmg, maybe remove crit healing also. At least dont introduce it like that.

Why is no-cp and bgs a baseline for anything? First of all that campaign should be locked to anyone above a certain amount of cp tbh

A lot of us play no-CP and/or BGs because we prefer it, not because we're new and have < 810 CP. If it weren't for BGs, I never would have come back to the game with Morrowind's early access. I personally find both Cyrodiil and CP-enabled PvP to be thoroughly uninteresting; the patch that had CP enabled in BGs was pretty awful.

Greek_Hellspawn

Suligost wrote: »

They should nerf it to 20% or less.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

The grind involved makes things worse, not better. If the ring ends up being overpowered in PvP, and doesn't get nerfed promptly, you'll need to do a long, boring grind (and spend $40) in order to be competitive with those who have the ring. Being competitive in PvP shouldn't require a long PvE grind any more than being competitive in PvE should require hours and hours of playing PvP for those who don't enjoy it.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

This thing is gonna highly overperform in nocp environment. Since we get 1350 base impen (20% dmg reduction from crits, of course, if it's gonna work), base crit modifier for ppl without any impenetrable piece (which still is kinda good) are gonna get 30% more dmg (40% for classes with modifier: templar/nb/kinda magden). So we either have 25% more dmg ALL THE TIME (working also for procs) or 30-40% (assuming enemy doenst have any impenetrable piece, in which i doubt) when we crit (and crit chance oscilate kinda 10-50% chance in no cp, higher values if u build for it). It doesnt look balanced for me, especially that u can go for heavy armor build with few procs and just get to much out of this mythic piece. Lower % dmg, maybe remove crit healing also. At least dont introduce it like that.

Why is no-cp and bgs a baseline for anything? First of all that campaign should be locked to anyone above a certain amount of cp tbh

A lot of us play no-CP and/or BGs because we prefer it, not because we're new and have < 810 CP. If it weren't for BGs, I never would have come back to the game with Morrowind's early access. I personally find both Cyrodiil and CP-enabled PvP to be thoroughly uninteresting; the patch that had CP enabled in BGs was pretty awful.

This ^^ 😁😁

Kalixte

This mythic really needs to be look at, quite overperforming even for a mythic item. I'm not a mathematician or anything like this, but at this point it is in Zenimax's interest to make these changes:

- 15 to 20% damage increase only (which is already quite ridiculous) ;
- does not apply to proc sets ;
- impossibility to critically heal as well.

Lughlongarm

Kalixte wrote: »

This mythic really needs to be look at, quite overperforming even for a mythic item. I'm not a mathematician or anything like this, but at this point it is in Zenimax's interest to make these changes:

- 15 to 20% damage increase only (which is already quite ridiculous) ;
- does not apply to proc sets ;
- impossibility to critically heal as well.

You probably went too far.

Lets not forget that BDW gives 10% damage/ 10% mitigation, no penalties.

If anything, It should be nerfed in 1 of the 3 options you suggested.

-Damage buff reduce
OR
-Does not work on proc sets
OR
-Does not allow crit heals.

Muskrap

BohnT2 wrote: »

No those 25% are already highly overtuned in PvP as they give you the damage you'd deal with crits but on every single hit.
That means it basically gives a 100% crit bonus while also ignoring any investment people did to combat crits.

It's one of the most game breaking sets this game has ever seen, what makes it worse is that it'll highly affect the meta and change how builds have to work.

Except it starts early in the damage calculations so you only get likr a 5-10% damage increase from wearing it

JAwtunes

Did anyone else drop their phones when they read 55 to 75%?

Finedaible

I'd wager that Malacath's Band will be best on pvp builds which focus solely on weapon/spell power and discard crit. Races with innate boosts to weapon or spell damage will probably benefit the most from the band as well, so Orsimer, Altmer, and Dunmer. Khajiit will probably be the absolute worse race to use the Band with since they depend entirely on their innate critical damage boost to even begin to compete with those three races in pvp.

Dracane

It is actually very weak and not nearly as strong as people make it out to be.
It's not 25% damage, but 14% for most of my abilities. Crit on the other hand is always a true multiplier and even if you have just 20-30% crit damage left because of enemy impenetrable, it is better than Malacath's.

I find it stupid that damage done scales of some non sensual base value instead of just giving me what it promises.

Ragnaroek93

Dracane wrote: »

It is actually very weak and not nearly as strong as people make it out to be.
It's not 25% damage, but 14% for most of my abilities. Crit on the other hand is always a true multiplier and even if you have just 20-30% crit damage left because of enemy impenetrable, it is better than Malacath's.

I find it stupid that damage done scales of some non sensual base value instead of just giving me what it promises.

It's buggy. Amplitude and off balance dmg increase CP reduce your damage while wearing Malacath ring (instead of increasing it)...

validifyedneb18_ESO

with CP it massively underperforms, laregely because even with no-crit sets (of which, it turns out, there are very few) your base crit sits incredably close to the threshold where you get equal damage. So you equip this ring, lose damage assuming any of your sets have any crit on them, AND have to sacrafice a set to use it. Big yikes.

relentless_turnip

Muskrap wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

No those 25% are already highly overtuned in PvP as they give you the damage you'd deal with crits but on every single hit.
That means it basically gives a 100% crit bonus while also ignoring any investment people did to combat crits.

It's one of the most game breaking sets this game has ever seen, what makes it worse is that it'll highly affect the meta and change how builds have to work.

Except it starts early in the damage calculations so you only get likr a 5-10% damage increase from wearing it

Yes I tested it in duels and thought it was pretty *** 😂 I realised crits are the point the fight changes... I am much more excited about the wild Hunt ring 🥳

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