Legendary Overland Difficulty Toggle Option

vilio11

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

redlink1979 wrote: »

Your increased difficulty option is: don't repair your gear and don't charge your weapons. lol

You can remove your CP, use green or blue gear or gear that is below your level but this is killing the sense of progression.

Bradyfjord

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

I think the best compromise would be focusing on quest bosses that are in their own solo instances. Since they are already instanced to the player, they can be scaled to vet mode and it wouldn't affect anything. And the quest reward can be purple for that one specific boss/quest with little consequence to the economy.

cmorris975

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

Something needs to be done. The lack of difficulty and risk in this game is not good.

Every time I download ESO I get excited to start playing. I log into the beautiful world and become immediately engaged. Then I start exploring and fighting, face-rolling 99% of the mobs I see with the same three button presses... With little risk... And I just get bored. The game can hold my attention for about 20 minutes before I start searching on the internet for something with more of a challenge.

It's too bad, so much potential with the world design and writing! I'd love to be engaged with ESO.

I have played Vet dungeons, there *is* some challenge there. It's just that in the majority of the game world I don't even really have to pay attention. Mash buttons, warp where I want to, etc..

I think growing up playing games like early Everquest may have shaped my brain in a way that I need consequences and pacing in an MMO? Not sure what it is. ESO just feels empty and risk-less with pretty graphics. Travel is easy, combat is a manic face-roll. It's almost like playing a game in god mode.

Fun for a minute but ultimately just not satisfying.

CleymenZero

Other.

@Universe I understand that increased difficulty is seen as a reward because we don't have that feature so it currently looks like a reward but once implemented, it won't be long until a plethora of threads pop up saying "What are these rewards?"

To me the increased difficulty wouldn't incentivize me me to do more of the overworld content.

Personal opinion of course but in sure I'm not the only one who finds the single player rewards to be laughable.

Universe

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

Cireous wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

Indeed.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion:

Spoiler

I think the Rats in the Oblivion's first quest were more dangerous than the giant you mentioned.
Note: It's hardest difficulty. I didn't play in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGsQxb5WgeY

I can easily imagine how much adrenaline and pure joy the Oblivion player was experiencing trying their hardest to not be killed by the immediate skeevers in their path. How each level gain, loot drop, attribute decision and armor upgrade felt in the effort to progress their quest forward.

I really hope Rich and the gang can find a way to recapture some of those feelings again. There certainly has been a torrent of feedback and suggestions on ways in which to try.

I hope that they will implement an higher difficulty setting
It doesn't have to be what I suggested here, but something.

@Michae This toggle option won't directly interfere with the gameplay of players who don't want to toggle the option to ON.
The default option is OFF.
The player can toggle this OFF and travel to "normal" phase at any time he chooses.
There is not much balancing to do, the debuff I suggested here can sort everything up.

Power creep ? How is it different than vet group dungeons & trials ?
If the player isn't skilled enough he can't successfully play in those instances unless he is carried but that's rare.

vilio11 wrote: »

show previous quotes

redlink1979 wrote: »

Your increased difficulty option is: don't repair your gear and don't charge your weapons. lol

You can remove your CP, use green or blue gear or gear that is below your level but this is killing the sense of progression.

Indeed.
I don't want to strip my character naked every time I want something to be more challenging.
It doesn't work well and it isn't fun.

@Bradyfjord I left instances out because it may cause problems with the overall phasing and the Debuff.
Though harder solo instances can be implemented too, but not as part of my suggestion here which is focused on overland content.

@cmorris975 That's ultimately what I want to fix with the harder difficulty.
This can be achieved quite successfully with the debuff without too much development time.

@CleymenZero I understand that better overland rewards than only double the current rewards seems more appealing.
Though given the nature of overland, I don't think it will be wise to buff the rewards.
The overland areas are huge and not instanced and the effect of better rewards rather than only double rewards can be bad for the game economy and the overall skill gap.
So double rewards like I suggested are not too much and can serve as a middle ground so it won't cause problems.

*Note: Since there was confusion about if the toggle option is OFF by default, I clarified in the OP post that it is OFF by default(as stated in other posts I made after the OP already).

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Other.

Don;t care about the other stuff but I would like the option to repeat overland/dungeon quests. Will happily do them for no rewards. I like story.

kichwas

StormeReigns wrote: »

The most common "complaint" with overland being too easy is power creep, which is often blamed on by the fast leveling as well gear that can be obtained from all areas and certain crafted sets. So what is the point of escaping the power creep when you willingly add it in and basically powerlevel yourself into godhood again with even better gear and make said "legendary" content trivial after a handful of quests?

True... but to one extent I don't add it in.

I just got my first 50 middle of last month. I'm now at CP 162 as I type this.

If I make a brand new character, and I did a few days ago, and walk out into the world and only use gear I find naturally - even if I don't spend my CPs, they seem to have boosted my 3 attributes already. Is that wrong, am I imagining it?

Because it looks like every character I make from here on out will always have a boost to the core stats. And if I can feel that at only 162 CP, what is it like for someone with 810?

My first three suggestion for any hard mode would be:

1. Turns off all CP impacts.
2. Turns off all set bonuses.
3. Has no added rewards. Only titles on each zone completion (Essentially how it worked in Guild Wars 1).

Everything else - buff this, nerf that, phase or don't phase... I'm not confident enough in the systems yet to say anything.

Michae

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Universe wrote: »

@Michae This toggle option won't directly interfere with the gameplay of players who don't want to toggle the option to ON.
The default option is OFF.
The player can toggle this OFF and travel to "normal" phase at any time he chooses.
There is not much balancing to do, the debuff I suggested here can sort everything up.

Power creep ? How is it different than vet group dungeons & trials ?
If the player isn't skilled enough he can't successfully play in those instances unless he is carried but that's rare.

My point was rather about that making things take longer to kill isn't really fun. I just don't get the notion for making enemies harder to kill in game like ESO, since the combat's not that engaging or skill based. It comes down to having bigger number on your pants than the mob you're whacking. It's no Dark Souls where timing and dodges really matter, here it's just pressing the numbers and light attack in correct rhytm and backing out of red zones. I could agree that the quest and delve bosses are too easy and could use a bit more health, but I'd leave the trash mobs alone since taking more time to kill them is hardly fun. Also I think that the demand for additional rewards for playing on harder difficulty is silly if you seriously tell us that want to play hard mode just because you want challenge. The additional rewards shouldn't be required then. And if you personally don't want those and they're just to incite other people, well I guess the demand for hard mode isn't that big after all. And as I said before, toggle doesn't really work the same here as in vet dungeons since you can't repeat quests. So it's either do it on normal and don't do it on hard, or just go on hard and forget about any progression on this character. With dungeons you can repeat them until you get what you want, in overland not so much. That's why I'm against loot and exp bonus. And power creep, yes, we'd add yet another thing for people to have over the casual players, who just don't have that much time to play. See how that works out. So I'd go for a title as a reward, but not loot or exp. Title could be something like "Masochist champion" or "Master of hardcore". ;P

Universe

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Don;t care about the other stuff but I would like the option to repeat overland/dungeon quests. Will happily do them for no rewards. I like story.

I can understand the need to repeat the quests you have already done.
It's not part of my suggestion but maybe ZOS can introduce a way to reset the quests progress through either an ingame quest or a crown store token or both.

kichwas wrote: »

show previous quotes

StormeReigns wrote: »

The most common "complaint" with overland being too easy is power creep, which is often blamed on by the fast leveling as well gear that can be obtained from all areas and certain crafted sets. So what is the point of escaping the power creep when you willingly add it in and basically powerlevel yourself into godhood again with even better gear and make said "legendary" content trivial after a handful of quests?

True... but to one extent I don't add it in.

I just got my first 50 middle of last month. I'm now at CP 162 as I type this.

If I make a brand new character, and I did a few days ago, and walk out into the world and only use gear I find naturally - even if I don't spend my CPs, they seem to have boosted my 3 attributes already. Is that wrong, am I imagining it?

Because it looks like every character I make from here on out will always have a boost to the core stats. And if I can feel that at only 162 CP, what is it like for someone with 810?

My first three suggestion for any hard mode would be:

1. Turns off all CP impacts.
2. Turns off all set bonuses.
3. Has no added rewards. Only titles on each zone completion (Essentially how it worked in Guild Wars 1).

Everything else - buff this, nerf that, phase or don't phase... I'm not confident enough in the systems yet to say anything.

Champion points do increase the overall stats(Health, Stamina & Magicka).
I suggested to disable them in my suggestion.
Turning off all set bonuses can be considered, though given the impact of the debuff I suggested, it may be overkill.
Not adding rewards can be considered though given the nature of MMOs and ESO itself, players will want to feel that they are receiving something in return for their hard work so it's not exactly a good idea.

Michae wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

@Michae This toggle option won't directly interfere with the gameplay of players who don't want to toggle the option to ON.
The default option is OFF.
The player can toggle this OFF and travel to "normal" phase at any time he chooses.
There is not much balancing to do, the debuff I suggested here can sort everything up.

Power creep ? How is it different than vet group dungeons & trials ?
If the player isn't skilled enough he can't successfully play in those instances unless he is carried but that's rare.

My point was rather about that making things take longer to kill isn't really fun. I just don't get the notion for making enemies harder to kill in game like ESO, since the combat's not that engaging or skill based. It comes down to having bigger number on your pants than the mob you're whacking. It's no Dark Souls where timing and dodges really matter, here it's just pressing the numbers and light attack in correct rhytm and backing out of red zones. I could agree that the quest and delve bosses are too easy and could use a bit more health, but I'd leave the trash mobs alone since taking more time to kill them is hardly fun. Also I think that the demand for additional rewards for playing on harder difficulty is silly if you seriously tell us that want to play hard mode just because you want challenge. The additional rewards shouldn't be required then. And if you personally don't want those and they're just to incite other people, well I guess the demand for hard mode isn't that big after all. And as I said before, toggle doesn't really work the same here as in vet dungeons since you can't repeat quests. So it's either do it on normal and don't do it on hard, or just go on hard and forget about any progression on this character. With dungeons you can repeat them until you get what you want, in overland not so much. That's why I'm against loot and exp bonus. And power creep, yes, we'd add yet another thing for people to have over the casual players, who just don't have that much time to play. See how that works out. So I'd go for a title as a reward, but not loot or exp. Title could be something like "Masochist champion" or "Master of hardcore". ;P

It's not only longer fights, the debuff I suggested will provide additional risk to overland combat.
Fights that previously seemed trivial will be harder and more dangerous for the player character.
On paper the debuff may not seem much, but it should provide an actual challenge.
I could have buffed the damage taken even further(like double damage taken) or increase monsters combat speed, but overland should also be enjoyable so buffing the monsters too much may be counterproductive.

Currently, 51% of this poll's voters voted for adding an increased difficulty of Overland, some for my suggestion and some for something which isn't like my suggestion.
I know that the forum don't represent the entire ESO player base, but this poll confirms that many players(at least forum members) would like ZOS to implement an harder mode for Overland content.
*The rewards part can serve as a bonus only or may even be scrapped from an actual implementation.
Titles & achievements can be nice additions to the rewards.

Deathlord92

Suligost wrote: »

I want overland be hard like Malestrom, so not by weakening me or giving absurd HP to mobs but by making them dangerous. Also additional rewards as exp, higher drop rate, unique motifs are welcome.

This

rei91

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

(as I said in some other thread)
I just want my quest bosses being challenging, and my big final quest bosses giving me REALLY hard time like a horrible world-threatening villain should (closer to vMA easier bosses level?). How it is now is immersion-breaking and anticlimactic.
But I don't want any additional rewards for it. Villains not being ridiculous so all the built suspense actually makes sense is enough incentive for me.

And yes running around armorless without jewelry, only with weapons (in outfit) without food doesn't really work, because right now I'm doing alliance quests for my second character like that and it's not enough. Villains still go down in seconds. What else should I do, don't use any skills? Whack them with my staff upside the head? But you can't do that in ESO...

Not sure what to do with usual mobs considering their great numbers.

Dusk_Coven

Other.

Private instances can solve a lot of problems, including this one.
Suppose you could have a private instance of overland. And have difficulty slider in it that you control. AND the maximum number of people in the instance must be capped so that you can't simply invite a bunch of people to neutralize your difficulty slider.

If it sounds suspiciously like a Trial, it is. Capping the total number of people who can participate is mandatory. Otherwise people will just exploit any increased rewards.
The net result will probably still be the same though -- increased rewards with corresponding inconvenience (e.g., increased difficulty you can't cheese or get around) means hardly anyone will bother using it. Just like Craglorn. But at least you can have your increased difficulty without messing up the rest of the game.

Grianasteri

I see absolutely no issue with the addition of difficulty settings for individuals.

Other games manage this, such as Ghost Recons etc, each player has their own difficulty setting, therefore doing less damage and taking more damage depending on their setting. In this way they can play with other people on different difficulty settings, without it messing things up.

Ive no idea about the technical viability of such a system for ESO, but clearly it CAN and IS done in other games.

Personally I have long argued that each and every zone should have had areas where the quests, delvs, adds, wb and dolmens were veteran level, in conjunction with the zones story, so as the story progresses, you explofe into the more difficult geographical areas of the zone. Or more simply, actual entire zones should have been more difficult, particularly DLC zones.

Michae

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Universe wrote: »

It's not only longer fights, the debuff I suggested will provide additional risk to overland combat.
Fights that previously seemed trivial will be harder and more dangerous for the player character.
On paper the debuff may not seem much, but it should provide an actual challenge.
I could have buffed the damage taken even further(like double damage taken) or increase monsters combat speed, but overland should also be enjoyable so buffing the monsters too much may be counterproductive.

Currently, 51% of this poll's voters voted for adding an increased difficulty of Overland, some for my suggestion and some for something which isn't like my suggestion.
I know that the forum don't represent the entire ESO player base, but this poll confirms that many players(at least forum members) would like ZOS to implement an harder mode for Overland content.
*The rewards part can serve as a bonus only or may even be scrapped from an actual implementation.
Titles & achievements can be nice additions to the rewards.

Ok ok, I still think that would be boring. Maybe that's just me but ESO's combat is the most boring part of the game for me. I'm here for the world and stories, combat is just an annoying obstacle. It's not engaging, no matter how strong enemies are. The danger of being wiped is just frustrating if there's no real mechanics behind it besides keep your pants on, eat your food, stay out of the red zones and press 1-LMB-2-LMB-3-LMB-4-LMB-5-~1-LMB-2-LMB-3-LMB-4-LMB-5-~, rinse and repeat. The moves don't have the feeling like they connect, everything's on delay, you just have two characters standing around and animating at eachother. So yeah, I find it boring. It's fine when I want to do a quick dungeon or trial, but if that was just my everyday life in game I'd find it tedious. You know, you want to get some mats but there's a few goblins in a way so bam, 10 minutes long epic duel, instead of just going there and doing the thing you wanted to do.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against a toggle of sorts, get it if you really need it, although I doubt it's that easy to implement it. What I'm saying is my point of view on difficulty in the game like ESO. I don't think some buffs and debuffs will make the combat more engaging, since it's a standard mmo combat, it's dated on the get go. Engaging combat must be visceral, must have weight, see games like Dark Souls or Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, but the combat like this is simply impossible in an MMO setting. So get your hardmode if you must, just don't screw this up for the rest of us, ok?

Aedrion

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

Overland is non-content right now.

I cannot get immersed because every character I talk to and everything I fight is squashed beneath my foot like a bug before I even get a look at what they're doing. NPC's talking down to me feels like a joke because I could delete armies of them in a second. Once their plot-armour comes off, it's instantly over for them so why should I care?

I get that starter zones should be easy and accessible but right now, for anyone not looking to play a walking/talking simulator, overland as a whole - and thus any non-dungeon DLC - offers you nothing.

How to fix it? Just keep the starting few zones easy and then ramp it up by having zones that used to be high level have more dangerous enemies that deal more damage, have more health and allies and have skills you need to look out for.
If this content is too hard for noobies, let them join groups and do it together. It's an MMO after all. The social should be rewarded.

Looking on the bright side though. This type of content leaves ESO players so low-skilled at actual gameplay that when they come into PvP, I can harvest their souls like I'm a Daedric Prince.

D3N7157

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

Zos please make it happen make the overland viable for the endgame players 😭

Universe

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

@rei91 Hopefully ZOS will figure something out.
I'm addressing the overland content in this discussion.
Veteran Maelstrom Arena is great but making the entire overland like this arena isn't viable solution, too much development work for a mere harder mode.

@Dusk_Coven In theory grouping in "Legendary overland" should be much easier than grouping for vet trials.
Simple zone chat usage, no special requirements.
The rewards I suggested can serve as a good incentive for players to participate in such a harder mode, so there should be enough players checking it.
The harder zones won't be empty.

@Grianasteri The debuff I suggested should be fairly easy to implement.
I have no technical knowledge of ESO's coding, but on paper it doesn't seem hard to implement.

@Michae A complete rework of ESO Overland combat can be a huge project and consume too much development time.
What I suggested is a compromise that will significantly increase the difficulty while not making it extremely hard for most.
The idea is that seasoned players will find it challenging but not like Veteran Maelstrom Arena or Veteran Fang Lair(both have a lot of mechanics).
Introducing mechanics for each and every monster is not viable, so a debuff for an increased difficulty is the easier way to increase the difficulty.
Casuals & new players will have much harder time in "Legendary Overland", so they can stay on "Normal Overland" and get more experience before considering the harder mode.
I don't think it will make any issues for casual players, quite the opposite, maybe they can strive to achieve better skill if checking the "Legendary Overland"
There is a reason why many players struggle in vet PVE content and PVP...Overland is simply too easy and doesn't teach enough about ESO combat.
The new players just burn most enemies without any trouble on the current "Normal Overland".

@Aedrion I know the feeling
There should be an actual challenge, a war worth fighting...not a one shot and that's it.


@D3N7157
Hopefully, they will listen to my feedback here

Dusk_Coven

Other.

Universe wrote: »

The rewards I suggested can serve as a good incentive for players to participate in such a harder mode, so there should be enough players checking it.
The harder zones won't be empty.

They will be empty except for where enough people can get together to neutralize the disadvantage of "harder" and farm rewards easily.
Craglorn proves it. Dolmens outside of Alik'r prove it. Northern Elsweyr Dragons prove it. Stop pretending it doesn't happen.

You want more rewards (for any reason)? Put it where it can't be exploited -- that must be a basic requirement. If you can't safeguard against it, everything else you propose is irrelevant and a non-starter because it won't be used as intended.

How about this alternative: Go to Cyrodiil and hunt the "unkillable" players. Extra difficulty and without special extra rewards, which you're okay with, right? Your "dangerous wildlife" in the overland zone are other players.
Or maybe the Imperial City. Higher density of PvE mobs but also higher chance of players. Just switch alliances to the low-pop one.

Universe wrote: »

There is a reason why many players struggle in vet PVE content and PVP...Overland is simply too easy and doesn't teach enough about ESO combat.

Pretty sure that's not the whole story.
Overland is your "tutorial" with some bosses so you can do group content and learn some mechanics.
Normal Dungeons are the step up, except lowbies just get carried and don't get a chance to do anything. Or they actually want to get carried because they are pressured to power level to CP160 so they can start farming gear.
Then they want to do Vets for monster helms and more power levelling except they didn't stop to learn or didn't get the chance to.
In Normal Dungeons if you get paired up with experienced players they mow down everything and leave you behind. in Vet Dungeons you get kicked, apparently, if the forums are any indication.

SOLO Dungeons would be an improvement since DPS won't have to wait in queue, won't have to fake, and WILL have to LEARN all mechanics because they have to do everything themselves. And there are easy ways to adapt Solo Dungeons for tanks and healers, by simply upgrading all attributes to the max you could allocate. So tanks don't have to respect and tanks and healers just have to have a different skill loadout when they go in.

CleymenZero

Other.

@CleymenZero I understand that better overland rewards than only double the current rewards seems more appealing.
Though given the nature of overland, I don't think it will be wise to buff the rewards.
The overland areas are huge and not instanced and the effect of better rewards rather than only double rewards can be bad for the game economy and the overall skill gap.
So double rewards like I suggested are not too much and can serve as a middle ground so it won't cause problems.

*Note: Since there was confusion about if the toggle option is OFF by default, I clarified in the OP post that it is OFF by default(as stated in other posts I made after the OP already).[/quote]

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Simply changing the difficulty would make it more fun but double the rewards is not significant. Might as well not change it.

Remember, more difficult means that some players won't be able to complete some quests or activities so the level to which it would affect the economy is unknown. Neither of us know.

Speaking of affecting the economy, is there something that will affect it more than the PvP pots becoming the same as the Essences of Weapon and Spell Power? 660ap vs 200+ gold. The choice is simple as supply is unlimited that way. THAT is significant.

Vietfox

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

It would be better if they just fought like a real pvp player.

MellowMagic

Other.

Having separate instances for Overland content isnt the best idea itll take to much dev time to veteranize every insignificant enemy. Plus there are some zones that are already bare enough having more instances is gunna leave so many zones empty. I do think a veteran toggle is a good idea but only for story bosses specifically ones that are instanced. Defeating story bosses in veteran mode will give you a coffer with a regional furnishing recipe. I don't think it's a good idea to associate mementos or achievements with a veteran toggle because people won't be able to repeat stuff they've already done thus will never be able to earn it.

VoxAdActa

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

I'd be happy with just a Veteran version of delves and public dungeons, and/or if the base game worldbosses were scaled up to be as tough as the DLC worldbosses.

precambria

Please do this, I have not done most of the quests in this game because the combat is trivial. The stories and rewards are great but I get bored when the rest of the quest only consists of riding around and enemies that just fall over.

Michae

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Universe wrote: »

@Michae A complete rework of ESO Overland combat can be a huge project and consume too much development time.
What I suggested is a compromise that will significantly increase the difficulty while not making it extremely hard for most.
The idea is that seasoned players will find it challenging but not like Veteran Maelstrom Arena or Veteran Fang Lair(both have a lot of mechanics).
Introducing mechanics for each and every monster is not viable, so a debuff for an increased difficulty is the easier way to increase the difficulty.
Casuals & new players will have much harder time in "Legendary Overland", so they can stay on "Normal Overland" and get more experience before considering the harder mode.
I don't think it will make any issues for casual players, quite the opposite, maybe they can strive to achieve better skill if checking the "Legendary Overland"
There is a reason why many players struggle in vet PVE content and PVP...Overland is simply too easy and doesn't teach enough about ESO combat.
The new players just burn most enemies without any trouble on the current "Normal Overland".

That's what I was saying, ESO combat is boring without any dungeon mechanics so I don't see the appeal in making enemies harder (ergo longer) to kill. That's all. I don't think the toggle idea has much sense because of that. So a simple buff/debuff won't make things engaging, the whole combat would need a rework and I just don't see that happening.

the1andonlyskwex

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Can someone who's in favor of this please explain why using no/broken/bad gear isn't an acceptable alternative?

max_only

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

The challenge is the reward.better gear/gold/experience is just more bait for newbs. It will be unbalanced again with new players in the difficult phase just to get those better rewards.

Universe

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

MellowMagic wrote: »

Having separate instances for Overland content isnt the best idea itll take to much dev time to veteranize every insignificant enemy. Plus there are some zones that are already bare enough having more instances is gunna leave so many zones empty. I do think a veteran toggle is a good idea but only for story bosses specifically ones that are instanced. Defeating story bosses in veteran mode will give you a coffer with a regional furnishing recipe. I don't think it's a good idea to associate mementos or achievements with a veteran toggle because people won't be able to repeat stuff they've already done thus will never be able to earn it.

Not really.
A debuff solves many of the possible development issues, like time spent on developing it.
In fact in theory it will be quite easy to implement it.

Additional achievements & momentos are not part of my suggestion.

VoxAdActa wrote: »

I'd be happy with just a Veteran version of delves and public dungeons, and/or if the base game worldbosses were scaled up to be as tough as the DLC worldbosses.

Yeah, me too

precambria wrote: »

Please do this, I have not done most of the quests in this game because the combat is trivial. The stories and rewards are great but I get bored when the rest of the quest only consists of riding around and enemies that just fall over.

Hopefully, they will not fall over if ZOS will implement an hard mode.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Can someone who's in favor of this please explain why using no/broken/bad gear isn't an acceptable alternative?

If you read my OP post and the posts that followed it, you would know.
One of the first lines I wrote was about this.
I'm wondering how many forum members actually read my full post before proceeding to vote.

max_only wrote: »

The challenge is the reward.better gear/gold/experience is just more bait for newbs. It will be unbalanced again with new players in the difficult phase just to get those better rewards.

Once the new players will find it too difficult they will probably return to "normal" difficulty.
The phases will divide the players so it won't be empty or too crowded, ZOS do well in this regard(number of people per phase).

the1andonlyskwex

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Universe wrote: »

If you read my OP post and the posts that followed it, you would know.
One of the first lines I wrote was about this.
I'm wondering how many forum members actually read my full post before proceeding to vote.

All you say is that you don't think playing with bad gear is fun. You don't explain why. If what you want is a challenge, then playing with weak gear provides it.

As far as I can tell, the only real difference between what you're proposing and playing with weak gear is greater segmentation of the player base and doubled rewards for people playing in "hard mode" (which will segment the player base even more).

Glurin

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

Now that I think about it, I think I'd rather change my vote to "no difficulty setting at all".

Yes, overland needs to be a little more challenging. But I don't think splitting up the player base into difficulty modes is the right way to do it.

Really, the heart of it IMO is just that all the normal enemies are the kind of pushovers that give other pushovers a bad name. World bosses are fine. I have no problem at all with high CP folk soloing them, and we've already seen what happens when they are tuned such that you need endgame dungeon/trial groups to beat them. But those random creatures you didn't even notice you stepped on to get to the world bosses? Yeah, in order to die to those things you basically have to just strip down and go AFK for five minutes. Sometimes not even then. They need a little more bite and a little more toughness just to get them back up to nuisance level for straight up beginners. Let alone something a veteran would even acknowledge was there.

Universe

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

If you read my OP post and the posts that followed it, you would know.
One of the first lines I wrote was about this.
I'm wondering how many forum members actually read my full post before proceeding to vote.

All you say is that you don't think playing with bad gear is fun. You don't explain why. If what you want is a challenge, then playing with weak gear provides it.

As far as I can tell, the only real difference between what you're proposing and playing with weak gear is greater segmentation of the player base and doubled rewards for people playing in "hard mode" (which will segment the player base even more).

Even playing with weak/bad gear doesn't make it challenging enough in most cases.
A strong debuff will solve everything with a simple click on the menu & teleport with no hassle.
Also, I want to feel the sense of accomplishment that I beaten an harder mode, not that I did some fake stripping my character naked which doesn't even provide enough challenge(Unless I remove almost everything).

@MartiniDaniels posted regarding a similar claim:

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

Curious_Death wrote: »

clear ur CP
use white or max green weapons
use green gear
problem solved.

No, not solved.
You need to remove abilities from bars, remove armor and remove weapons. Then overland mobs will be dangerous. As soon as you slot healing or take even white weapon in your hands, they become trivial.

If you didn't see his post about his fist fight with a giant:

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ My fist fight with a giant year ago
As you can see from stats fully naked character, no CP, gear, attributes or food. I forgot to remove passives and mundus my bad. Giant dps was 152 though, which proves that basic health recovery is enough to outheal damage from elite mob even when standing in front of him naked
Don't tell me I was running from Giant, you can see that I managed 0.99 LA per second against him

The above is just an example how weak the current Overland is.
Maybe the debuff I stated should be buffed further like: Your health recovery is reduced by 30%.
*The current normal overland is simply not meant to provide a challenge for seasoned players.
It is like fighting low HP training dummies which pose no threat at all.

I agree that the player base will be divided in the Overland but those who will seek a challenge will be a minority, maybe 30% who will want to challenge themselves and go for "Legendary Overland".
This means there will be enough players in both "Normal" & "Legendary" phases.

Glurin wrote: »

Now that I think about it, I think I'd rather change my vote to "no difficulty setting at all".

Yes, overland needs to be a little more challenging. But I don't think splitting up the player base into difficulty modes is the right way to do it.

Really, the heart of it IMO is just that all the normal enemies are the kind of pushovers that give other pushovers a bad name. World bosses are fine. I have no problem at all with high CP folk soloing them, and we've already seen what happens when they are tuned such that you need endgame dungeon/trial groups to beat them. But those random creatures you didn't even notice you stepped on to get to the world bosses? Yeah, in order to die to those things you basically have to just strip down and go AFK for five minutes. Sometimes not even then. They need a little more bite and a little more toughness just to get them back up to nuisance level for straight up beginners. Let alone something a veteran would even acknowledge was there.

^I agree that the player base will be divided in the Overland but those who will seek a challenge will be a minority, maybe 30% who will want to challenge themselves and go for "Legendary Overland".
This means there will be enough players in both "Normal" & "Legendary" phases.

The debuff I suggested will make even normal mobs harder to beat.
They will still be weaker than bosses ofc, but they will provide a challenge.
A simple trash mob may be slightly more difficult than the current elite 1 dot difficulty mob.
So the debuff will make everything harder and the fights will take more time and require planning.
The soloing 5/10+ normal mobs and world bosses etc. will not be as trivial as it is now even for the strongest stats players and it will be much...harder to accomplish.
The overland will still remain doable without dedicated groups unless fighting Dragons in the Legendary difficulty, then I suggest to bring many from zone chat
BTW I do find more than enough people for Northern Elsweyr Dragon fights even on off peak times, so the claim of some players make that there aren't enough players doing the hard content is not valid.