Legendary Overland Difficulty Toggle Option

eKsDee · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

redlink1979 wrote: »

Your increased difficulty option is: don't repair your gear and don't charge your weapons. lol

1. Can still absolutely annihilate overland mobs, even in broken gear and with empty enchants. Source: Done that many times before.

2. More of a general statement rather than an exact reply to you, but the answer to this shouldn't be dumbing my gameplay down to that of a complete beginner, because overland shouldn't even allow complete beginners to play like complete beginners in the first place. You don't teach a player how to play the game by patting them on the back for forming bad habits, you teach a player how to play the game by gently coaxing them in the right direction, while delivering gentle punishment for straying in the wrong directions.

Curious_Death · May 2020

Other.

clear ur CP
use white or max green weapons
use green gear
problem solved.

casparian · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

redlink1979 wrote: »

Your increased difficulty option is: don't repair your gear and don't charge your weapons. lol

Curious_Death wrote: »

clear ur CP
use white or max green weapons
use green gear
problem solved.

I've tried that; it's not a good solution at all. Not only does it remove any sense of progression from the single-player aspect of the game, it means I have to go through an annoying process of changing gear and re-allocating CP every time I change between activities (and those gold costs stack up too). But the main reason it's no solution is that it doesn't work -- it makes mobs die on the fourth channel of Jabs instead of the second. There's still no need to heal up, dodge, block, avoid the red, or generally think about combat at all.

Septimus_Magna · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

eKsDee wrote: »

I'd also like to mention that an automatic debuff is sorta how GW2 handles overland difficulty -- in that zones are leveled and if you're over-leveled for a zone, you are automatically downscaled to bring you more in line with the expected level of the zone -- and nobody has an issue with that over there, because it has the same outcome as the increasing mob health with levels.

You can take a max level character and run it through max level zones, then take it all the way back to a beginner zone, and despite visibly dealing less damage per hit, you still feel just as effective (if not more so, because the downscaling does seem to keep a bit of your extra power from being over-leveled) as you did in the max level zone, because you're still dealing roughly the same damage per point of health.

Again, this is 100% cognitive bias. You care about being gimped, only because you know you're being gimped. If the game didn't tell you that you were being gimped, you wouldn't even know you were being gimped, and you'd be completely fine with a debuff, because all you know is that it does perform as you'd expect, and does what you want it to do.

And this is why a debuff is the perfect solution. It keeps everyone in the same instance, keeps the difficulty increase/decrease on an individual player as opposed to an entire instance, easily applies in any zone since it can just automatically apply in a given type of zone just like Battle Spirit, easily provides multiple levels of difficulty without spinning up additional instances, all the while still having the same effect as actually increasing mob health and damage, down to the exact fight durations and total damage received numbers.

I dont follow your logic, right now every instance is the same so you might have 10 instances all with normal difficulty. Lets say there are 2000 players online it means an average of 200 players in each instance.

With veteran overland there still would be 2000 players divided over 10 instances, maybe 7 with normal difficulty and 3 with veteran difficulty. Still an average of 200 players in each instance so you wont notice any difference in population. You would only notice a difference if there are not enough players online to fill the instance that you're in.

The debuff could also work but grouping up with players without the debuff should not be possible if there is any reward for having the veteran overland mode enabled. Otherwise someone else can deal most dmg and you just benefit from the extra rewards. Besides the challenge, people often complete veteran content for the rewards so I think that motivation should extend to overland content as well.

agegarton · May 2020

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Turn off your CPs and use armour and weapons that are at the level the zone was intended for - you'll have a different experience.

Sure, if you wander around with full CPs, two 5-piece sets and some Monster gear you'll probably find the Island of Betnikh relatively straightforward.

Consum98 · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

I'd really like a harder difficulty mode, debuffs are fine IMO. it seems a bit silly that if you want a challenge in PVE you have to group up and do a 12 man group event. what if you want to play solo one evening? you have a single arena you can complete. As someone who played Skyrim exclusively on legendary, boycotting enchanting and smithing, the added challenge was a lot of fun. making areas of the map that were previously extremely easy, more in line with what you were doing at the time.

I feel instances would probably be the best solution. in terms of splitting the player base, we have instances within instanced zones anyway, and if you feel like you need a large group of players to help you, perhaps a harder mode is not for you? We could simply have a battle spirit style debuff, with a symbol or something next to your name to show which difficulty you are playing in. If you don't like the sound of this because you won't play it, perhaps don't use it?

I'm not necessarily for rewards, and xp isn't exactly useful at CP cap, but i quite like the idea of cosmetics or titles, or something to show an achievement. A small gold bonus wouldn't exactly be shunned, potions are expensive, but I'm only picking hairs.

That being said, the majority of the playerbase plays PVE most of the time, and the average person is fuelled by progression. This is largely why we still have the CP system in place, despite all the imbalances it causes. We could always have CP removed in this mode, or a debuff as aforementioned, but I think with how most people value their progression, perhaps it would be better to have a completely new instance, balanced around max lvl and 300 cp? Same status or instance as before, just no debuff. Much like how vet dungeons and trials are balanced around CP 300 I believe. This would have the same effect as before, but allow people to continue their progressive feeling they get by levelling their cp, gear and such.

The only problem with an approach like this is stopping players from being in the same instance if one person is in the mode, and the other is not.

I guess this is just a list of pro's and cons, but this is my take on it. I'd be up for either honestly, anything to make overland mobs feel like less than just a single skill to kill when at max cp, without having to respec or spend gold to remove cp JUST to gimp myself for a few hours, before i have to reassign everything to enter a different content area.

casparian · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

agegarton wrote: »

Turn off your CPs and use armour and weapons that are at the level the zone was intended for - you'll have a different experience.

It's the "intended for" part that we're trying to change.

It's not just Betnikh, dude. There are several hundred hours of quest content, much of which wasn't even released when I hit CP cap. Presumably the devs intend for vet players to play that content -- there is literally too much of it to do while you are still at low- or no-CP. Why shouldn't there be an option for vet players to have the immersive quest experience that is available to new players? If the response is "quest content is intended for new players", then what I'm saying is that makes no sense and it should not be that way.

I suspect the only real answer is that the devs don't have time. That's the unfortunate reality that comes with the frantic pace of new development they've tethered themselves to.

Kaenos · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

Nope, not this way. By all means, include veteran zones, but not by debuffing players, but rather by buffing the encounters. Making content harder by debuffing players would feel like trying to run one-legged or a wrestling match where you have to wear an inflatable sumo costume. It's just not fun and you don't feel particularly legendary or powerful doing it.

I'd rather see overland content that is actually potentially fatal not just for AFK'ers - and I'd settle for a slight chance of increased quality loot or bountiful farming nodes.

Universe · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

@Robo_Hobo I believe that the "Legendary Overland" I suggested is punishing enough to the player as it is.
Adding additional debuffs like less overall sustain may be a bit overkill given that the player will be probably out of resources quite often due to prolonged and harder combat.
Though ofc it can be considered if ZOS finds my suggestion of lacking a real challenge.

@Stx The "Legendary Overland" debuff I suggested is quite similar to increasing the overall HP & damage of the monsters, but in fact it makes it even more difficult to win in tough situations.
The debuff also make building entirely new combat scenarios/abilities for each monster not needed, something which will take a considerable long development time & effort, essentially this will require rebuilding the entire overland for vet.
A debuff solves many...issues.
The approach of rebuilding everything isn't a viable solution.

@Dahveed If there won't be any rewards for playing the harder option then very few players will toggle the option to ON.
There should be an incentive for toggling this option to ON.
Personally I could play with no additional rewards, but many... will probably object it.
Also, additional rewards provide a nice bonus so the harder content will be more tolerable.

@ccfeeling Maybe. Though given the difficulty will be a lot harder it will compensate the extra rewards.
There will be diminishing returns since the content will be a lot harder. For example if 25% of the player base will switch to "Legendary Overland", it will take the 25% twice as much time to earn the rewards due to the increased difficulty.

@vilio11 Indeed. That's why I want an harder difficulty.
The overland content makes up a lot of the game and if it isn't challenging enough it is not really enjoyable.
It shouldn't effect those who don't want to engage with this difficulty, they can just keep the "Legendary Overland" toggle as OFF, it will be OFF as default setting.

@redlink1979 @Curious_Death @agegarton I tried all of the weakening my character methods already.
They simply don't work good enough and are not fun.
The mobs/elites/bosses still die too quickly.
The toggle option I suggested will sort everything up and will make it more difficult.
There could also be achievements associated with defeating the bosses while on "Legendary Overland" toggled difficulty ON.
Though the achievements part is optional only and not part of my OP suggestion.

@Consum98 Thanks for your input.
I believe that toggling the champion points in any way will be too much of a buff to the player so switching it off should be mandatory.
As you stated, my solution isn't perfect and there are cons, like not being in the same phase.
Though any solution will not be perfect and not satisfy everyone, this is life.

WhyMustItBe · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

Universe wrote: »

Hello everyone ,
I find most of the overland content in ESO to be too easy. Overland means: Quests & non quest mobs, general overland mobs, elite mobs, Dolmens etc.
I know that I can just fight with white gear, lesser abilities and toggle off my champion points, but I believe this isn't fun nor initiative.
I believe that there should be a toggle option which will make the overland combat harder for the player and thus more rewarding.

I think a difficulty option would be a fitting tribute to the single player games and could welcome back some of the overland challenge of the old champion level zone system. It would also allow people broader option for playing fun builds like hybrids or DPS tanks in PVE in an engaging and meaningful way.

Many of your fundamental concepts I can get behind. Scaling basic combat stats for offense/defense much like Battle Spirit in PVP. I actually like that damage taken is increased by 35% while defenses are reduced multiplicatively (damage shields and healing). I would prefer a flat percent reduction for armor/spell resistance as well however, say 35% reduction also.

However one issue: I do not believe disabling Champion Points would make the system feel intuitive as you say.

I enjoy that layer of building my character which is the whole point of not just wearing white gear and clearing CP. You want to still go through optimization but have that optimization be meaningful in content outside of top level end game raids. The other options relate to balancing that can be refined over time.

So the main question I have is how to MEANINGFULLY increase difficulty beyond flat stat increase/decrease and without disabling aspects of the game like the CP system?

I think the solution is probably combat behavior profiles for NPC's.

For example the Skyrim Construction Kit has combat behavior profiles you can load on NPC's to control whether they act like a mage or a warrior, what abilities they have and how proficiently they use them, all of which could easily be implemented in a difficulty slider. You could also control things like which spells they had access to and how often they could use different tiers or types of spells.

Obviously it would require 'man hours' to configure fun playable combat profiles for large populations of NPC's, although much of the world's population of creatures and people tends to be more or less homogeneous.

So that is one issue, a minimal cost investment in man hours (mainly easy tweaking of profile sheets) of NPC combat profile designers.

The most challenging implication however might be integrating such a slider with the existing Megaserver architecture.

The issue I foresee here is that basically to have a difficulty slider work in a MEANINGFUL way (combat behaviors of enemies improved ALONG with stat buffs/debuffs), you would really have to create separate instances in the world (much like when you port to a group member and join their 'shard'), where only people with the same difficulty configuration can appear.

This is similar to how World of Warcraft implemented War Mode, where toggling it on meant you would only see other people in the world zones that also had it on (or off if off).

EDIT: One additional thought, as an alternative to instancing or 'phasing' higher difficulty levels you could instead make NPC behavior tied to the difficulty of the person who starts combat with them, and then have a synergy type prompt to join a fight if within range and at a lower difficulty level, which would allow you to engage and damage a creature otherwise 'tapped' to a higher difficulty level.

How this integration relates to the logistics of server overhead relative to the existing load balance I have no earthly way of knowing.

EDIT: However I do see some potential for trolling as a person on high difficulty could drop AOE to pre-tag NPC's in an area a lower difficulty player was grinding to level, causing those monsters to now be more difficult for the lower level player to kill even if they did hit the synergy to join combat and scale up their own difficulty temporarily. Perhaps you could make there be a significant XP benefit for the lower level player on kills in such a way to compensate?

Cool suggestion though; I have missed overland difficulty since One Tamriel (though I ultimately do prefer the OT scaling aspect).

Cheers.

Michae · May 2020

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

It was said many times over, even by me. Damage sponges with the ability to wipe the players do not make engaging combat. This is no Dark Souls or some spectacle fighter where you need real skill to get through the harder content. In mmo you need to keep your pants on and remember your rotation, making me do the rotation for longer time before enemy drops dead is not fun, it's tedious.

But the real crux of this poll is in points 9. and 10. If it was only about making things more fun you wouldn't need special congratulations for that, the experience would be reward in itself. Making playing on masochist difficulty earn double anything just will make the gap between newbies and/or more casual players and vets just that much bigger. There's already plenty of rewards locked behind hard content, we don't really need more gating off. The difference is that you can run current vet content to the death, and you can't really repeat overland quests, now can you?

CleymenZero · May 2020

Other.

I'd like a much harder difficulty level with much higher rewards.

There should be a lot more quests that have much-needed greater rewards. When I login, I have to decide what I want to do and consider if it's worth it or not.

The Bottom-line is, quests and overland content are NEVER considered because they're not worth the time and effort. The effort part is not the difficulty level but simply the traveling. Why would I travel anywhere to then one-shot everything and be rewarded something that's 0.004% of my net worth?

In most other games if you do this quest, you'll get x rewards which has this unique item etc, etc. I see next to none of that in this game.

agegarton · May 2020

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

casparian wrote: »

show previous quotes

agegarton wrote: »

Turn off your CPs and use armour and weapons that are at the level the zone was intended for - you'll have a different experience.

It's the "intended for" part that we're trying to change.

It's not just Betnikh, dude. There are several hundred hours of quest content, much of which wasn't even released when I hit CP cap. Presumably the devs intend for vet players to play that content -- there is literally too much of it to do while you are still at low- or no-CP. Why shouldn't there be an option for vet players to have the immersive quest experience that is available to new players? If the response is "quest content is intended for new players", then what I'm saying is that makes no sense and it should not be that way.

I suspect the only real answer is that the devs don't have time. That's the unfortunate reality that comes with the frantic pace of new development they've tethered themselves to.

What you're talking about is a wholesale redevelopment of the game - almost another game, in development terms. You make it sound simple, but in reality it's anything but simple. You can't add a difficulty toggle where none was intended without impacting just about every system in the game.

I grant you, power creep has impacted the game and the champion points system needs an overhaul, but the areas you are talking about are not "end game" content and were never intended as such. Areas in Craglorn were intended as "end game", as was PVP, Trials, and newer DLC dungeons. It's also why hard mode was added to dungeons. It doesn't mean you can't complete overland content and have fun with it, but let's not pretend it was every any different.

With respect, you have invented a problem and over-simplified your solution. I guess that most ESO fans want content that isn't broken, not insanely complex new development that would satisfy only a few. Your own poll seems to bear me out here.

casparian · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content, but not like what you suggested.

agegarton wrote: »

show previous quotes

casparian wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Turn off your CPs and use armour and weapons that are at the level the zone was intended for - you'll have a different experience.

It's the "intended for" part that we're trying to change.

It's not just Betnikh, dude. There are several hundred hours of quest content, much of which wasn't even released when I hit CP cap. Presumably the devs intend for vet players to play that content -- there is literally too much of it to do while you are still at low- or no-CP. Why shouldn't there be an option for vet players to have the immersive quest experience that is available to new players? If the response is "quest content is intended for new players", then what I'm saying is that makes no sense and it should not be that way.

I suspect the only real answer is that the devs don't have time. That's the unfortunate reality that comes with the frantic pace of new development they've tethered themselves to.

What you're talking about is a wholesale redevelopment of the game - almost another game, in development terms. You make it sound simple, but in reality it's anything but simple. You can't add a difficulty toggle where none was intended without impacting just about every system in the game.

I grant you, power creep has impacted the game and the champion points system needs an overhaul, but the areas you are talking about are not "end game" content and were never intended as such. Areas in Craglorn were intended as "end game", as was PVP, Trials, and newer DLC dungeons. It's also why hard mode was added to dungeons. It doesn't mean you can't complete overland content and have fun with it, but let's not pretend it was every any different.

With respect, you have invented a problem and over-simplified your solution. I guess that most ESO fans want content that isn't broken, not insanely complex new development that would satisfy only a few. Your own poll seems to bear me out here.

It's not my poll, but you're right that at least a majority of forum-goers (and I suspect a majority of players) don't care about it as much as I do. As I already mentioned, I also agree that the devs likely don't have time for this. It's a shame, as there is a lot of potential in ESO. But as it stands, the multiplayer content has good combat but is is broken, and the single player content works (mostly) but has boring combat. I've moved on at this point.

Indoril_Nerevar · May 2020

We are going to leave it the way it is.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

Curious_Death wrote: »

clear ur CP
use white or max green weapons
use green gear
problem solved.

No, not solved.
You need to remove abilities from bars, remove armor and remove weapons. Then overland mobs will be dangerous. As soon as you slot healing or take even white weapon in your hands, they become trivial.

Universe · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

@WhyMustItBe Thanks

I think that enabling champion points will only complicate the Legendary Overland combat balancing further, so this is why I listed the disabling of the champion system(but points can still be earned).

Combat behavior profiles for NPCs isn't a bad idea but it will it take a considerable development time & resources.
I don't think that ZOS will be willing to commit to it because it's basically working on redesigning too much of the current overland.

The only way the debuff will work without introducing new issues is with different phases, Normal & Legendary.
if different difficulty players will be on the same instance/phase it will only create confusion, combat chaos, loot issues & exploitation.

@Michae While the Legendary Overland combat will not be as engaging Vet dungeons/trials it will require adaptation and a more skillful rotation.
The list of debuffs I provided will greatly impact the player's power & survival.
The current power creep we see in the normal overland will completely vanish in the Legendary Overland.
I'm not sure that everyone read each and every debuff I mentioned in my OP post, the debuff is quite punishing for the player character.
Now imagine you're targeted by a zerg of mobs and each and every one of them is stronger against you... or a DLC World Boss/Dragon is attacking you... Prepare for some one shots if you're not prepared.

As I previously stated, almost no one will try the harder difficulty if there will be no extra rewards.
There should be an incentive.
For me no rewards is fine, but for most players it won't be, especially if they need to fight in double/triple the normal difficulty.

@CleymenZero Thanks for sharing

I didn't want the rewards to be too OP, the increased difficulty excitement is a reward in itself.

@agegarton End game is subjective. It is true that there are Dungeons/Trials/Arenas/PVP, but it doesn't mean that most of the game which is overland should be easy mode.
The players who want to challenge themselves in Overland can even call the "Legendary Overland" endgame content.
There will be only a few new players who will attempt this harder mode anyway(only fast learners and very skillful Gamers).

@casparian The Devs may have enough time for development if it is not rebuilding the entire overland.
I believe that what I suggested is in the scope of their development capability.
A debuff is not a complicated solution for introducing an harder Overland difficulty.
Much of the game systems needed for it are already in place... phasing, the monsters themselves, a combat team which can code Debuffs(like the current Battle Spirit) etc.

@Indoril_Nerevar Well, the suggestion I made here is a toggle option.
It shouldn't effect you in any way unless you toggle it ON.
The default is OFF.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

Curious_Death wrote: »

clear ur CP
use white or max green weapons
use green gear
problem solved.

No, not solved.
You need to remove abilities from bars, remove armor and remove weapons. Then overland mobs will be dangerous. As soon as you slot healing or take even white weapon in your hands, they become trivial.

Maybe a fist fight with the mobs will sort it out

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

^ My fist fight with a giant year ago

As you can see from stats fully naked character, no CP, gear, attributes or food. I forgot to remove passives and mundus

my bad. Giant dps was 152 though, which proves that basic health recovery is enough to outheal damage from elite mob even when standing in front of him naked

Don't tell me I was running from Giant, you can see that I managed 0.99 LA per second against him

Universe · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ My fist fight with a giant year ago
As you can see from stats fully naked character, no CP, gear, attributes or food. I forgot to remove passives and mundus my bad. Giant dps was 152 though, which proves that basic health recovery is enough to outheal damage from elite mob even when standing in front of him naked
Don't tell me I was running from Giant, you can see that I managed 0.99 LA per second against him

Nice!

You must be the grand champion of fist fighting in Tamriel...A giant fell due to your fists

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

Universe wrote: »

show previous quotes

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ My fist fight with a giant year ago
As you can see from stats fully naked character, no CP, gear, attributes or food. I forgot to remove passives and mundus my bad. Giant dps was 152 though, which proves that basic health recovery is enough to outheal damage from elite mob even when standing in front of him naked
Don't tell me I was running from Giant, you can see that I managed 0.99 LA per second against him

Nice!
You must be the grand champion of fist fighting in Tamriel...A giant fell due to your fists

And now imagine what will happen to you if attempt anything similar in Skyrim, even on default difficulty and without mods. Giant will kill you in 1 GCD, no options. So when somebody tells that ESO overland was made so easy, because of "casuals from single-player RPGs". I only can lol in response. I don't remember any single player game of any genre on default difficulty where mobs will be so harmless.

Universe · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ My fist fight with a giant year ago
As you can see from stats fully naked character, no CP, gear, attributes or food. I forgot to remove passives and mundus my bad. Giant dps was 152 though, which proves that basic health recovery is enough to outheal damage from elite mob even when standing in front of him naked
Don't tell me I was running from Giant, you can see that I managed 0.99 LA per second against him

Nice!
You must be the grand champion of fist fighting in Tamriel...A giant fell due to your fists

And now imagine what will happen to you if attempt anything similar in Skyrim, even on default difficulty and without mods. Giant will kill you in 1 GCD, no options. So when somebody tells that ESO overland was made so easy, because of "casuals from single-player RPGs". I only can lol in response. I don't remember any single player game of any genre on default difficulty where mobs will be so harmless.

Indeed.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion:

Spoiler

I think the Rats in the Oblivion's first quest were more dangerous than the giant you mentioned.
Note: It's hardest difficulty. I didn't play in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGsQxb5WgeY

MEBengalsFan2001 · May 2020

You don't need a toggle option for overland. Simply don't use CP and use only common gear and try that out.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

You don't need a toggle option for overland. Simply don't use CP and use only common gear and try that out.

There are video and screenshots on this page proving that even completely naked character is relatively immortal. It will be a surprise for you, but many no-CP PVP players, don't distribute their CP on their main characters to have always same stats in PVP and out of it and those characters still have solid dps and can solo majority of World Bosses.
Majority of PVP gear comes from overland or is crafted.

Edit: video is in parallel thread. Doesn't matter - anybody can do it. just drop your CP and equip dropped gear and nothing will change, mobs will just live a bit longer.

Moose_Scout · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

I like the idea of a Toggle where the drops are better and so is the chance of dying.

At any rate, the game is silly easy. It is depressing when you are fighting "gods" in the quest-lines and can light attack them to death.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ My fist fight with a giant year ago
As you can see from stats fully naked character, no CP, gear, attributes or food. I forgot to remove passives and mundus my bad. Giant dps was 152 though, which proves that basic health recovery is enough to outheal damage from elite mob even when standing in front of him naked
Don't tell me I was running from Giant, you can see that I managed 0.99 LA per second against him

Nice!
You must be the grand champion of fist fighting in Tamriel...A giant fell due to your fists

And now imagine what will happen to you if attempt anything similar in Skyrim, even on default difficulty and without mods. Giant will kill you in 1 GCD, no options. So when somebody tells that ESO overland was made so easy, because of "casuals from single-player RPGs". I only can lol in response. I don't remember any single player game of any genre on default difficulty where mobs will be so harmless.

Skyrim is the most casual of RPGs friend.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

You don't need a toggle option for overland. Simply don't use CP and use only common gear and try that out.

There are video and screenshots on this page proving that even completely naked character is relatively immortal. It will be a surprise for you, but many no-CP PVP players, don't distribute their CP on their main characters to have always same stats in PVP and out of it and those characters still have solid dps and can solo majority of World Bosses.
Majority of PVP gear comes from overland or is crafted.

Edit: video is in parallel thread. Doesn't matter - anybody can do it. just drop your CP and equip dropped gear and nothing will change, mobs will just live a bit longer.

We must be playing different games "There are video and screenshots on this page proving that even completely naked character is relatively immortal."

no cp
no passives
no attributes
no gear

https://youtu.be/QG4Mu96vz1E

world boss

no cp
no passives
no attributes
lvl 1 white dagger

https://youtu.be/wDPDANCkvDM

"But but in skyrim giants 1 shot you" yeah, and they do in ESO as well. Ok, now that we actually have video that disproves this dumb topic, can you guys please please please get over this difficulty nonsense and go get a different game or a hobby. If the game is that easy for you it's time to challenge yourself with something new

just in case anyone is wondering about a brand new toon as well

https://youtu.be/1tMQ98vQy7c

but but muh difficulty!

Universe · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

Moose_Scout wrote: »

I like the idea of a Toggle where the drops are better and so is the chance of dying.

At any rate, the game is silly easy. It is depressing when you are fighting "gods" in the quest-lines and can light attack them to death.

Indeed.
I would have expected those "gods" to make me use healing abilities, dodge/block & react when needed.

@Rave the Histborn @MartiniDaniels was posting about 1 dot elite Giant, not a world boss.
Your comparison doesn't prove anything.
Also, you could have dodged or blocked in your videos but you didn't like you purposely wanted to lose.
Furthermore, as I suggested in my OP post:

Universe wrote: »

I find most of the overland content in ESO to be too easy. Overland means: Quests & non quest mobs, general overland mobs, elite mobs, Dolmens etc.
I know that I can just fight with white gear, lesser abilities and toggle off my champion points, but I believe this isn't fun nor initiative.
I believe that there should be a toggle option which will make the overland combat harder for the player and thus more rewarding.

Removing gear, champion points, abilities etc. isn't the way it should be done. It barely does anything unless you go and just use light attacks and nothing else.
I don't understand why you find a toggle debuff option for an increased difficulty of Overland to be so bad.
It won't effect you directly, the default option will be OFF.
Who knows, you may enjoy such an increased difficulty

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Universe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Moose_Scout wrote: »

I like the idea of a Toggle where the drops are better and so is the chance of dying.

At any rate, the game is silly easy. It is depressing when you are fighting "gods" in the quest-lines and can light attack them to death.

Indeed.
I would have expected those "gods" to make me use healing abilities, dodge/block & react when needed.

@Rave the Histborn @MartiniDaniels was posting about 1 dot elite Giant, not a world boss.
Your comparison doesn't prove anything.
Also, you could have dodged or blocked in your videos but you didn't like you purposely wanted to lose.
Furthermore, as I suggested in my OP post:
show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

I find most of the overland content in ESO to be too easy. Overland means: Quests & non quest mobs, general overland mobs, elite mobs, Dolmens etc.
I know that I can just fight with white gear, lesser abilities and toggle off my champion points, but I believe this isn't fun nor initiative.
I believe that there should be a toggle option which will make the overland combat harder for the player and thus more rewarding.

Removing gear, champion points, abilities etc. isn't the way it should be done. It barely does anything unless you go and just use light attacks and nothing else.
I don't understand why you find a toggle debuff option for an increased difficulty of Overland to be so bad.
It won't effect you directly, the default option will be OFF.
Who knows, you may enjoy such an increased difficulty

Your comparison doesn't prove anything.

And now imagine what will happen to you if attempt anything similar in Skyrim, even on default difficulty and without mods. Giant will kill you in 1 GCD, no options.

The comparison is will giants kill you in 1 hit in Skyrim and ESO. The short answer is yes but you have to understand that a giant in Skyrim isn't the same as an elite, it'd be akin to a WB so you have to accurately compare giants.

Also, you could have dodged or blocked in your videos but you didn't like you purposely wanted to lose.

If you watched the videos you'd also see that I did dodge roll, I also blocked, and broke free, mechanics we're constantly told dont ever occur in overland. People keep saying easy is too easy for even brand new players which clearly isnt the case

"There are video and screenshots on this page proving that even completely naked character is relatively immortal."

It was mainly to disprove this

"I don't understand why you find a toggle debuff option for an increased difficulty of Overland to be so bad."

Because it'll inevitably be abused or something will break the overland for people. It's not a matter of will it happen? It's a matter of when it happens if a system like that is introduced.

It won't effect you directly, the default option will be OFF.

Until it does and a patch breaks it and it's accidently applied to everyone, or you group with someone that has the debuff on and it accidently applies to the group and you can't turn it off. Assuming it'll just work isn't usually how things work in 2020 video games

Who knows, you may enjoy such an increased difficulty

I've got a ps3 somewhere with 100% clears on Demon and Dark Souls, I very much enjoy difficulty, probably more than people would expect given my position on the matter. Thats why I have that view though, I want content meant for me and my skill level and that means mechanics. Throwing a bunch of hp/damage on guys and gimping mine doesn't make it more difficult without more mechanics.

This'll be my last post on the topic but it also makes you wonder if the reason that the polls go a certain way is because the flagging system is abused 🤔🤔🤔

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

Yes! I want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content like what you suggested.

OMG, man really, so much effort to prove that Lonely Papa one-shots 8k HP / no resistances toon? What this has to do with original thread? If every quest boss was like WB, this thread will simply won't exist.

Cireous · May 2020

Universe wrote: »

Indeed.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion:
Spoiler
I think the Rats in the Oblivion's first quest were more dangerous than the giant you mentioned.
Note: It's hardest difficulty. I didn't play in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGsQxb5WgeY

I can easily imagine how much adrenaline and pure joy the Oblivion player was experiencing trying their hardest to not be killed by the immediate skeevers in their path. How each level gain, loot drop, attribute decision and armor upgrade felt in the effort to progress their quest forward.

I really hope Rich and the gang can find a way to recapture some of those feelings again. There certainly has been a torrent of feedback and suggestions on ways in which to try.

Michae · May 2020

No! I don't want an harder difficulty setting for Overland content at all.

Universe wrote: »

@Michae While the Legendary Overland combat will not be as engaging Vet dungeons/trials it will require adaptation and a more skillful rotation.
The list of debuffs I provided will greatly impact the player's power & survival.
The current power creep we see in the normal overland will completely vanish in the Legendary Overland.
I'm not sure that everyone read each and every debuff I mentioned in my OP post, the debuff is quite punishing for the player character.
Now imagine you're targeted by a zerg of mobs and each and every one of them is stronger against you... or a DLC World Boss/Dragon is attacking you... Prepare for some one shots if you're not prepared.

So again, if all enemies are stronger than you there's no real progression. And when everything takes longer to kill it gets tedious in the end. Hard mode can be fun in short bursts, but in the long run it's silly. And the game rebalancing that would be needed to implement some kind of toggle would be lot's of work for a little gain.

Universe wrote: »

As I previously stated, almost no one will try the harder difficulty if there will be no extra rewards.
There should be an incentive.
For me no rewards is fine, but for most players it won't be, especially if they need to fight in double/triple the normal difficulty.

So it's not the challenge that people need, but better rewards then? Those rewards would make the power creep bigger, as we would have another faction of players with better loot just becuse they have more time to play. I think it's enough with what we have.

My solution to your masochistic needs would be different. Instead of some hardmode toggle I'd go for a new vet zone, something akin to Craglorn. Much easier to implement and it wouldn't ruin the experience to us filthy casuals.