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If you think you are a poor PvP player

GRXRG
GRXRG
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Chances are, you are probably not.
I consider myself an average player, not good, but not completely awful either.

Pretty sad of seeing almost no improvement in my pvp gameplay i started to think why, because i got a good computer, a good connection, a good build all around, good key bindings for faster reactions.
Watching video of people or seeing people that survive multiple people with just buffs up and vigor going, and why If im all buffed up with vigor going i get oneshotted by crazy numbers even having a solid cp setup?

The answer is hitbox desync.

And it's way worse than simple lag because as far as I could test it myself it doesn't register your buffs, your heals and maybe even your gear in some cases?

I have 2 examples and i would like to have an opinion from you guys as well.

1. I was in cyrodiil running from a small group of people, I went behind a big LoS rock place (those common big rocks all around cyro where people kite) and after 3 second i was behind while keeping an eye on enemy a Lethal arrow comes from BOTTOM, pass through the rocks and hit me, that guy didn't start cast Snipe before I went in LoS because 3 seconds passed, i stopped myself behind while waiting for them to come. So the only explanation is that he was still able to see my hitbox and connect to it, while instead in my screen i am 100% LoS.

2. I was with my stamdk inside a keep, i go up the stairs because I am followed by a stamdk enemy, there is only him. So i go up to engage him in a better spot, so i buffs up with everything: hardened armor, cauterize, elude, frag shield, forward momentum and as soon i have los with him i pop vigor.
He instantly charges at me with Leap which i didn't have time to block (my fault) and I die.
I watch recap and it was a 16k leap and 11k executioner.

How in the world with 33k resistances, Major evasion, 81 ironclad points, over 3k crit resists, vigor ticking i am hit like that?
He even whispered me: don't play cyro in pve gear scrub. And after a bit of chitchat he was just using new moon fury and he was at zero stacks and he said that was his hardest hitting leap and surprised that's why called me a pve scrub.

So my conclusion is, don't know if it's a problem specifically with my character hitbox or others experienced this too, but seems that if your hitbox is desynced it doesn't properly register the resistances you have, the heals you have, the buffs you have because of his desync.

I would like to hear if you guys have similar experiences.
And don't start saying it's a l2p issue, because i had many duels with friend with over 6k weapon damage and without lag and desyncs they never achieved even close to that numbers and with all buffs up and heals i can stay full health almost indefinitely (the standard cpvscp duel).

Thanks.
Edited by GRXRG on April 30, 2020 5:34AM
  • lookstwice
    lookstwice
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    Sounds like my new excuse. Thanks.

    Nah, I know I always get 2 shotted, but I got a bad case hitbox desync and it's contagious.
  • MusCanus
    MusCanus
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    Imagine expecting your resists, buffs, heals or whatnot to work properly in a game where people often can't use abilities, basic attacks or even move, lol. That's what you get when playing a game maintained by those who would make a "Hello, World!" lag.

    Is it really news to you though? Have you never died while still being airborne from dizzy or leap and then see in your death recap 3 executioners? :D
  • Daffen
    Daffen
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    No video proof what so ever doesnt help your point, no way we can judge if it was bad actions from your part, amazing players or bugs.

    What we can judge is a build, but a build is only as good as its user, which we dont know.
    Edited by Daffen on April 30, 2020 8:39AM
  • MarzAttakz
    MarzAttakz
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    MusCanus wrote: »
    Imagine expecting your resists, buffs, heals or whatnot to work properly in a game where people often can't use abilities, basic attacks or even move, lol. That's what you get when playing a game maintained by those who would make a "Hello, World!" lag.

    Is it really news to you though? Have you never died while still being airborne from dizzy or leap and then see in your death recap 3 executioners? :D

    Just last night in fact.

    Add to that a minimum of 250ms latency due to physical distance from server and yesterday was simply rage inducing frustration and really made me question why I'm still playing.

    Yes I have plenty room to improve, yes I really should git gud... but I doubt my patience will last long enough for that. I could PVP fairly well in Lotro, Secret World, FFXIV and GW2... ESO on the other hand is simply shambles.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PC EU
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Qura Scura | Altmer | MagBlade
    Lhylyth | Breton | MagPlar
    Nhynyth | Khajiit | MagDK
    Ghwynyth | Dunmer | MagSorc
    Loots-All-Urns | Argonian | MagDen
    Shades-Of-Gray | Argonian | StamDK
    Or'Chastration | Orc | StamSorc
    Little Miss Famished | Orc | StamCro
    Fhane Sharog | Orc | StamDen
    Dead Moons Rising | Khajiit | StamBlade
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    Daffen wrote: »
    No video proof what so ever doesnt help your point, no way we can judge if it was bad actions from your part, amazing players or bugs.

    What we can judge is a build, but a build is only as good as its user, which we dont know.

    My game is already poor in terms of lag, if i record too maybe i cannot even walk or move.

    I don't need to prove anything, I know by myself while I play using line of sight i still get killed by executioners, and many times i am over enemy hitbox and no matter many time i click executioner myself and it doesn't go off like the target is too far away from me.

    It's hard to explain and only by playing it on yourself you feel something is off.

    It happened even the opposite, few hours after the big redownload game ended, the server was almost empty and I could kite and hold 4 people just with vigor and buffs up, and they are all 810 cp guys with decent rank too, not some no-cp pve player.

    Now not matter how much i use los i still receive fishy hits when i shouldn't.

    I don't ask you to believe me, who cares, just wanna see if someone have similar experience.

    It's not simple lag, but your hitbox is in a different position from what you see on your screen, so even if it's one second desync, you go behind a wall, the enemy still see you outside and can cast everything on you, and you die anyway.
  • Aznox
    Aznox
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    edit : why bother
    Edited by Aznox on April 30, 2020 12:41PM
    Aznox
    PC EU
    Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
    I live in Battlegrounds
    Theorycrafting enthusiast
    Official Cheese Lord
    CP1500+ club
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Duel me while I’m streaming
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Q_Q
    Q_Q
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    Do what everyone else does. Ask zos for a nerf to the only few good solo players left.
  • geonsocal
    geonsocal
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Duel me while I’m streaming

    too funny man :)

    hope all is well for you and you're staying safe and healthy sir...
    Edited by geonsocal on April 30, 2020 10:50PM
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • geonsocal
    geonsocal
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    yes, lag affects the heck out of fighting in cyro...doesn't seem as bad in BG's and IC...

    when i suddenly keel over and die for no apparent reason:
    giphy.webp

    it's hardly worth getting pissed about anymore...they're all "features" now...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Are you 100% sure the skills were active on your bar? or did you just press them thinking they actually cast, and sue to the Input Delay they didnt.
    I have only been hit by a 14K onslaught when all my resistance buffs fell off.
    PS NA 1800+ CP
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main

  • jadarock
    jadarock
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Duel me while I’m streaming

    I've had many incidents lately that sound very similar to what to what's described in the op.

    I actually wish we could get a group from each faction to all stream at the same time in primetime(on all platforms). Im willing to bet everyone would be shocked how bad the locational desync and skill delay really is.




  • justaquickword
    justaquickword
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    Nah... I'm pretty sure I'm just useless at PvP. But I will add that to the list of "valid excuses"
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Lag. Whatever you think you see on the screen may not actually be the case. Like Schrodinger's cat, you can be alive or dead at the same time. No way of knowing.
  • x48rph
    x48rph
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    I'll just add that with the way lag goes and the range of snipe, he very well might have started that snipe before you went behind the rocks and the hit just didn't register till then. I know it's stupid but it does happen. It happens with other stuff but it's much more noticeable with snipe since it can have such a long range and therefore a longer travel time as well. Also if the snipe is already coming and you don't actively dodge, it will hit around corners and through objects, it's like a homing missile.
  • Pinja
    Pinja
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    The example of that DK battle doesn't sound like a hit box problem. It sounds like you weren't wearing armor. What sets do you run? The items may've not loaded to the game server and not registered. Did you recently change armor sets before the battle? What was the campaign population?
    Pinja for Dual Wands.
    Pinja's three server solutions:
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    I have another proof just happened right now.

    I tried hop on my magblade using zaan, i procced it on one guy at melee range, he did a roll dodge and the beam vanished at not even 3 meters, he was still melee range.

    After few minutes another guy procced zaan on myself, i use RAT to escape and i was like 25 meters and the zaan didn't want to [snip] leave my character and I die because of it at [snip] 25 range.

    Now explain this [snip] please?

    [edited for profanity]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on May 2, 2020 1:48PM
  • MusCanus
    MusCanus
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    GRXRG wrote: »
    I have another proof just happened right now.

    I tried hop on my magblade using zaan, i procced it on one guy at melee range, he did a roll dodge and the beam vanished at not even 3 meters, he was still melee range.

    After few minutes another guy procced zaan on myself, i use RAT to escape and i was like 25 meters and the zaan didn't want to [snip] leave my character and I die because of it at [snip] 25 range.

    Now explain this [snip] please?

    [edited for profanity]

    That [snip] is explained by the fact that they have a lot poorly-written forum bots looking for [profanities] but not nearly as many competent programmers who would be looking for ways to fix bugs.
    Edited by MusCanus on May 2, 2020 6:42PM
  • WoppaBoem
    WoppaBoem
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    GRXRG wrote: »
    Daffen wrote: »
    No video proof what so ever doesnt help your point, no way we can judge if it was bad actions from your part, amazing players or bugs.

    What we can judge is a build, but a build is only as good as its user, which we dont know.

    My game is already poor in terms of lag, if i record too maybe i cannot even walk or move.

    I don't need to prove anything, I know by myself while I play using line of sight i still get killed by executioners, and many times i am over enemy hitbox and no matter many time i click executioner myself and it doesn't go off like the target is too far away from me.

    It's hard to explain and only by playing it on yourself you feel something is off.

    It happened even the opposite, few hours after the big redownload game ended, the server was almost empty and I could kite and hold 4 people just with vigor and buffs up, and they are all 810 cp guys with decent rank too, not some no-cp pve player.

    Now not matter how much i use los i still receive fishy hits when i shouldn't.

    I don't ask you to believe me, who cares, just wanna see if someone have similar experience.

    It's not simple lag, but your hitbox is in a different position from what you see on your screen, so even if it's one second desync, you go behind a wall, the enemy still see you outside and can cast everything on you, and you die anyway.

    I kill a lot of people behind walls and such los but I know I have hit my skill before they reach line of sieght but it still hits them while they are in there terms save. The best solution for this is taking less risks. If that 1 or 2 skills that go off before line of sight kills you that means you where to close to dying anyway. You can try to be more proactive. Use LOS proactivly, expect incoming based on the momemtum of the fight and use vigor earlier. There will always be some lag between multiple clients and server in an very fast action pact game like ESO. Know it, prevent and use it to you own advantage like me. As many times I feel and know I have caught them of guard but that takes expierence. The game aint perfect and it comes as is it delivered.
    Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    WoppaBoem wrote: »
    GRXRG wrote: »
    Daffen wrote: »
    No video proof what so ever doesnt help your point, no way we can judge if it was bad actions from your part, amazing players or bugs.

    What we can judge is a build, but a build is only as good as its user, which we dont know.

    My game is already poor in terms of lag, if i record too maybe i cannot even walk or move.

    I don't need to prove anything, I know by myself while I play using line of sight i still get killed by executioners, and many times i am over enemy hitbox and no matter many time i click executioner myself and it doesn't go off like the target is too far away from me.

    It's hard to explain and only by playing it on yourself you feel something is off.

    It happened even the opposite, few hours after the big redownload game ended, the server was almost empty and I could kite and hold 4 people just with vigor and buffs up, and they are all 810 cp guys with decent rank too, not some no-cp pve player.

    Now not matter how much i use los i still receive fishy hits when i shouldn't.

    I don't ask you to believe me, who cares, just wanna see if someone have similar experience.

    It's not simple lag, but your hitbox is in a different position from what you see on your screen, so even if it's one second desync, you go behind a wall, the enemy still see you outside and can cast everything on you, and you die anyway.

    I kill a lot of people behind walls and such los but I know I have hit my skill before they reach line of sieght but it still hits them while they are in there terms save. The best solution for this is taking less risks. If that 1 or 2 skills that go off before line of sight kills you that means you where to close to dying anyway. You can try to be more proactive. Use LOS proactivly, expect incoming based on the momemtum of the fight and use vigor earlier. There will always be some lag between multiple clients and server in an very fast action pact game like ESO. Know it, prevent and use it to you own advantage like me. As many times I feel and know I have caught them of guard but that takes expierence. The game aint perfect and it comes as is it delivered.

    As i said when i was hit by lethal arrow i was already in line of sight for about 2 or 3 seconds, and he didn't casted it before i entered line of sight.

    Of course i know if you click for example crystal frag and i got behind a wall, the projectile is shooted behind and hit you anyway because casted before.

    But i was behind a rock for 2-3 seconds, and suddendly i see an arrow comes throw and hit me lol

    EDIT: happened 5 minutes before.
    I kite around while chased, i roll dodge 3 times consecutevely, i finally reach los, 1 second later dead by killer's blade.
    A *** single target ability went through dodge and los.

    How is my dang hitbox not desynced? Explain.
    Edited by GRXRG on May 4, 2020 9:29AM
  • Zer0_CooL
    Zer0_CooL
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    MusCanus wrote: »
    Imagine expecting your resists, buffs, heals or whatnot to work properly in a game where people often can't use abilities, basic attacks or even move, lol. That's what you get when playing a game maintained by those who would make a "Hello, World!" lag.

    Is it really news to you though? Have you never died while still being airborne from dizzy or leap and then see in your death recap 3 executioners? :D

    Does being hit by a comet, which is shown as first skill in death recap, when already dead count aswell?
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    MusCanus wrote: »
    Imagine expecting your resists, buffs, heals or whatnot to work properly in a game where people often can't use abilities, basic attacks or even move, lol. That's what you get when playing a game maintained by those who would make a "Hello, World!" lag.

    Is it really news to you though? Have you never died while still being airborne from dizzy or leap and then see in your death recap 3 executioners? :D

    Does being hit by a comet, which is shown as first skill in death recap, when already dead count aswell?

    This maybe not, Comet have an AoE DoT component attached, so you got it first by Comet, got other hits and finally you die from the Comet DoT.

    But i die mid roll dodge by single target abilities and that is impossible unless my hitbox is completely desynced.

    i roll dodged into line of sight and 1 second later throught walls, killer's blade got me as final death hit.
  • Zer0_CooL
    Zer0_CooL
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    It hit me when i was already dead and showed up on top at the eath recap
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    It hit me when i was already dead and showed up on top at the eath recap

    Ah okay lol

    It's hard to explain what's happening unless you are playing it yourself, but i keep getting hit when i shouldn't be.

    While my enemy as soon they go behind a little bush my skills do not cast at all immediately, LoS for them is godly.

    If i use it no matter what i do i still receice hits that should be covered by LoS, I don't know what to do anymore.

    And it's not a damn l2p, i am almost cp900 and i lost count how many bgs i played and duels and cyro, i don't even pve anymore, and i only did vet dungeons at max for monster helms, the rest i did till i play the game is pvp only.
  • Zer0_CooL
    Zer0_CooL
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    GRXRG wrote: »
    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    It hit me when i was already dead and showed up on top at the eath recap

    Ah okay lol

    It's hard to explain what's happening unless you are playing it yourself, but i keep getting hit when i shouldn't be.

    While my enemy as soon they go behind a little bush my skills do not cast at all immediately, LoS for them is godly.

    If i use it no matter what i do i still receice hits that should be covered by LoS, I don't know what to do anymore.

    And it's not a damn l2p, i am almost cp900 and i lost count how many bgs i played and duels and cyro, i don't even pve anymore, and i only did vet dungeons at max for monster helms, the rest i did till i play the game is pvp only.

    Uninstal is an option you know..
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    GRXRG wrote: »
    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    It hit me when i was already dead and showed up on top at the eath recap

    Ah okay lol

    It's hard to explain what's happening unless you are playing it yourself, but i keep getting hit when i shouldn't be.

    While my enemy as soon they go behind a little bush my skills do not cast at all immediately, LoS for them is godly.

    If i use it no matter what i do i still receice hits that should be covered by LoS, I don't know what to do anymore.

    And it's not a damn l2p, i am almost cp900 and i lost count how many bgs i played and duels and cyro, i don't even pve anymore, and i only did vet dungeons at max for monster helms, the rest i did till i play the game is pvp only.

    Uninstal is an option you know..

    Wish i could if there were better game options, but there aren't xD
  • MusCanus
    MusCanus
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    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    GRXRG wrote: »
    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    It hit me when i was already dead and showed up on top at the eath recap

    Ah okay lol

    It's hard to explain what's happening unless you are playing it yourself, but i keep getting hit when i shouldn't be.

    While my enemy as soon they go behind a little bush my skills do not cast at all immediately, LoS for them is godly.

    If i use it no matter what i do i still receice hits that should be covered by LoS, I don't know what to do anymore.

    And it's not a damn l2p, i am almost cp900 and i lost count how many bgs i played and duels and cyro, i don't even pve anymore, and i only did vet dungeons at max for monster helms, the rest i did till i play the game is pvp only.

    Uninstal is an option you know..

    Even then you may still be hit by a comet and die xD
  • Zer0_CooL
    Zer0_CooL
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    MusCanus wrote: »

    Even then you may still be hit by a comet and die xD

    I'd say chances on a performence improvment and to be hit by a meteor in real life are equal
  • GRXRG
    GRXRG
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    Daffen wrote: »
    No video proof what so ever doesnt help your point, no way we can judge if it was bad actions from your part, amazing players or bugs.

    What we can judge is a build, but a build is only as good as its user, which we dont know.

    I think i managed to upload few clips and i hope you can see and judge what i mean even tho those might not show the best desyncs.

    #1 Clip: I am 100% In LoS from by screen view, the Dk literally pass thought the pillar and hit me with leap anyway, play multiple time to notice how he travels through the pillar.

    https://imgur.com/BVExanm

    #2 Clip: At some point i dodge roll and i go behind the pillar in line of sight and i get hit throught the pillar by magnum shot that knocks me back even tho in my screen i should be completely covered by los.

    https://imgur.com/73OCStx

    #3 Clip: A more obvious magnum shot that knocks me back when clearly i dodge rolled in a los area behind box and goes through and hit me.

    https://imgur.com/y1DuZKF

    Notice that magnum shot is not a channeled like Snipe, so when clicked it fires immediately and i shouldn't be get it by that at all.

    I don't know if you can judge it properly by videos and maybe you will say it's l2p issue or something.
    Just focus on the LoS and tell me what you think.
    Edited by GRXRG on May 4, 2020 1:00PM
  • Nord_Raseri
    Nord_Raseri
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    This has been an issue for a little while now. Positional, skill, resource, and stat desyncs are all a surprise mechanic in cyrodill at the moment.
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
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